Death Of U S Citizens In Thailand By Non-Natural Causes

[Docno]

Wow! I'm impressed. We're into the third page at TV, and no-one has explicitly suggested that the suicides and 'other accidents' were actually 'hits' perpetrated by murderous Thai wives and their giks. Is that a tear in my eye?

[silverhawk_usa]

Why do so many of these topics turn into a country bashing or state assumptions that are totally fact less. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but please don't state it as fact. A comment like "this just proves Americans don't know how to how to ride motorcycles" or alluding to the fact that Americans forget what side of the road to ride on is just ridiculous. That's paramount to saying the drowning victims forgot how to swim.

I just visited some of the info put out by the British Embassy. I am not Brit bashing but trying to show some perspective and that accidents are accidents and not because of the country one hails from.

"According to the FCO, traffic laws, road and vehicle conditions and,

particularly, local driving habits can make driving overseas very

different from conditions in the home country. For example, Thailand,

permanent home to 50,000 British expats and destination for 870,00

tourists annually, had a reported 68,582 incidents causing 9,205 deaths

in 2011 as against 1,901 fatalities in the UK."

They go on to say that the most dangerous countries for Brits are Australia, Thailand and Spain! Now I assume from some of the posts that most believe Brits know how to ride motorcycles, and they are used to driving on the left side of the road and know how to use roundabouts. Certainly there are no facts available that more accidents happen in home countries and that driving in Thailand is more dangerous than the U.S.

What you have quoted there are the total road traffic deaths in Thailand compared to these in the Uk. I think you believed these to be British deaths in Thailand since you got the information from the British Embassy site. So, totally bogus I am afraid.

Yes, I see what you are saying but that doesn't in any way make it bogus. It also states;

"Road traffic accidents are the second most common cause of British

deaths in Thailand, and account for a high number of hospitalisations.

The majority of accidents involve scooters or motorcycles, with an

increasing number also put down to poor maintenance of buses and

overworked drivers."

My point is still the same. The accidents are not directly related to what country we are from or for the reasons given by many of the posters. I know, sadly, there is a very large number of British deaths reported on Thai Visa and a concern of the British Government. I wouldn't jump to a conclusion that this is just because they are British. Although anyone losing their life in an accident is sad, as someone posted earlier, the numbers are really not that high considering the number of Americans here.

[hellodolly]

As is often mentioned here, I wonder if this is statistically significantly compared to the number of U.S. citizens who live/vacation in Thailand. It does seem like something people planning to visit should be aware - especially the fact that vehicular deaths seem to be a large number of the deaths - hopefully, if people had this information - they would be more cautious before renting motorcycles and taking busses and vans.

while I am not challenging the number of deaths like you say statistically is it significant? I don't know.

I also noted only

1 drug related

10 vehicle also

4 suicides. and

1murder

I do how ever think that the numbers would not be the same if alcohol which in Thailand is a drug had been figured into the causes.

[Konini]

Does murder come under 'Other accident'?

[Credo]

Murder is not a part of "other accidents". Murder is its own category.

[Konini]

Murder is not a part of "other accidents". Murder is its own category.

Interesting. I'm sure I read something about a murder.

[theblether]

Murder is not a part of "other accidents". Murder is its own category.

Interesting. I'm sure I read something about a murder.

There is a reference to a homicide on the list Konini

[theajarn]

Is it just me or does it seem like some folks here are disappointed that the count is "lower than expected"?

[silverhawk_usa]

Is it just me or does it seem like some folks here are disappointed that the count is "lower than expected"?

I hope it is just you. I certainly would like it to be much lower,

[puukao]

Obviously, nobody knows the facts. A drunk driver could have went into the other lane and killed someone in a car and on a motorcycle. The possibilities are endless, as I think people here already know. When they say Americans don't know which lane to drive on, I don't take that seriously.

my only thought is the 50+ year old people over-estimate how quick their reflexes are on a bike. or how indestructible they are. IF you have the money, don't rent a motorbike, unless, as I said before, you just love to ride and you must. but if it's for transportation only, find another way.

good news, they do drive much slower here. bad news, older people don't seem to spend all the necessary energy to figure out their surroundings. like the guy who will walk in the road 1 block down, and the car that decides to pull out and stop, or the girl who wants to brake on her bike because her phone rang.....

[hellodolly]

Murder is not a part of "other accidents". Murder is its own category.

Interesting. I'm sure I read something about a murder.

In Hong Dong it was on the list.

[hellodolly]

Obviously, nobody knows the facts. A drunk driver could have went into the other lane and killed someone in a car and on a motorcycle. The possibilities are endless, as I think people here already know. When they say Americans don't know which lane to drive on, I don't take that seriously.

my only thought is the 50+ year old people over-estimate how quick their reflexes are on a bike. or how indestructible they are. IF you have the money, don't rent a motorbike, unless, as I said before, you just love to ride and you must. but if it's for transportation only, find another way.

good news, they do drive much slower here. bad news, older people don't seem to spend all the necessary energy to figure out their surroundings. like the guy who will walk in the road 1 block down, and the car that decides to pull out and stop, or the girl who wants to brake on her bike because her phone rang.....

Agreed they just had to put names to the deaths. The reality is probably far more different if they included alcohol even the murder.

[JSPS]

This list is only of the Americans that died throughout 2012. By itself it tells us little.

How many Americans live in LOS as compared to Brits, Swedes, Ozzies, Russian etc and how many of them died of non-natural causes throughout the year? It is my impression that Americans are not a large part of the expat community in Thailand.

How many of these deaths listed were tourists and how many were expats? Again, how does that compare to other nationalities.

Traffic accidents are the major cause of non-natural deaths pretty much everywhere. So what?

There's pretty much nothing here except that some Americans died in Thailand during 2012.

[siamnatural]

I think the figure may be low - just based on all the deaths we read about in this publication alone. I also suspect that many of the motorbike accidents are alcohol related -> but we all know how people drive in Thailand (like fish swim). We're all going to die someday. I do wish each of you good health, positive thoughts, & longevity. The one thing we all have in common is we're here in Thailand and it is in fact a better life than where we came from considering all the circumstances. It is sad to see those individuals who choose to end their life early (depression?).

This could also be in part due to drug and alcohol abuse. Conversely, there are numerous healthy foods to eat and herbal health supplements that aren't available elsewhere. Upward & Onward!

[Sing_Sling]

Sure are a lot of vehicle accidents. Americans possibly forgetting which side of the road to drive on.

Interesting idea. Americans are driving a rover around on Mars right now, pretty hard to believe they cannot figure out which side of the road to drive on in Thailand......

Quite, because training, education etc... are the same for Billy Joe Hootenanny from Buttplug Arkansas as it is for an astronaut

[rametindallas]

All this proves is that some Americans can't ride motorbikes properly. If Americans moved to UK they'd buy a car, but here they buy a motorbike. That explains almost all the deaths. From what I've read, many of these deaths are because they were drunk and/or not wearing helmets. This is more about the type of people that get killed not that it's anything to do with Thailand. They should be grown up enough that they know they should take lessons before riding a bike, and also wear a helmet and not drive after drinking alcohol. Blame the Americans not the Thais.

Many tourists, American or otherwise, come to Thailand and rent motorcycles, with no experience or qualifications. Maybe a motorcycle attachment, to one's license, should be required for rental. After all, it is the law in Thailand.

As far as SEA being less safe than "Western" countries, I believe it's actually safer than many; much safer than North America. Here, the bikes are less powerful, the speeds are usually lower, and, more importantly, bikes are an expected mix in the traffic. In North America, motorcyclists are all but invisible to motorists.

Road Deaths per 100,000 Motor Vehicles: Thailand - 118 U.S. - 18

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Motorcylce Deaths: U.S. 2010 - 1,502 Thailand - 18,200 http://www.chiangraitimes.com/news/14539.html

[Thai at Heart]

All this proves is that some Americans can't ride motorbikes properly. If Americans moved to UK they'd buy a car, but here they buy a motorbike. That explains almost all the deaths. From what I've read, many of these deaths are because they were drunk and/or not wearing helmets. This is more about the type of people that get killed not that it's anything to do with Thailand. They should be grown up enough that they know they should take lessons before riding a bike, and also wear a helmet and not drive after drinking alcohol. Blame the Americans not the Thais.

Many tourists, American or otherwise, come to Thailand and rent motorcycles, with no experience or qualifications. Maybe a motorcycle attachment, to one's license, should be required for rental. After all, it is the law in Thailand.

As far as SEA being less safe than "Western" countries, I believe it's actually safer than many; much safer than North America. Here, the bikes are less powerful, the speeds are usually lower, and, more importantly, bikes are an expected mix in the traffic. In North America, motorcyclists are all but invisible to motorists.

Don't you need an international or thai licence to rent any vehicle in thailand anyway?

[SteeleJoe]

Sure are a lot of vehicle accidents. Americans possibly forgetting which side of the road to drive on.

Interesting idea. Americans are driving a rover around on Mars right now, pretty hard to believe they cannot figure out which side of the road to drive on in Thailand......

Quite, because training, education etc... are the same for Billy Joe Hootenanny from Buttplug Arkansas as it is for an astronaut

You make a good point in response to a rather dumb post (though to be fair, I get why he made it). But a couple quibbles:

Billy Joe (your odious stereotype of an American) is generally not the sort who travels the world.

Virtually all Americans - even in Arkansas - get quite good driver training by law.

Astronauts have nothing to do with the Mars rover. (That's the kind of mistake Billy Joe would have made).

Edited May 1, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[wiser guy]

Looks like Chiang Mai is a dangerous place for US citizens! LOL

[Sing_Sling]

Sure are a lot of vehicle accidents. Americans possibly forgetting which side of the road to drive on.

Interesting idea. Americans are driving a rover around on Mars right now, pretty hard to believe they cannot figure out which side of the road to drive on in Thailand......

Quite, because training, education etc... are the same for Billy Joe Hootenanny from Buttplug Arkansas as it is for an astronaut

You make a good point in response to a rather dumb post (though to be fair, I get why he made it). But a couple quibbles:

Billy Joe (your odious stereotype of an American) is generally not the sort who travels the world.

Virtually all Americans - even in Arkansas - get quite good driver training by law.

Astronauts have nothing to do with the Mars rover. (That's the kind of mistake Billy Joe would have made).

I will have you know I was married in Clearwater, Fla. and was best man at my best friend's (we both attended Northwestern U) marriage to a Baptist preacher's daughter in the deep south . . . there are many Billy-Joe's who do their name proud. (Though they certainly can be odious if they forget their deodorant)

As for the astronaut . . . I was merely following on from Mars . . . but you technically correct (who drives those things, anyway? Self-driven or guided from GC? Ok, if from GC maybe an astronaut would be at the controls? )

[maidu]

....but does the Mars Rover have a VIN? (vehicle identity number). If not, perhaps it should be ticketed and towed.

[SteeleJoe]

I will have you know I was married in Clearwater, Fla. and was best man at my best friend's (we both attended Northwestern U) marriage to a Baptist preacher's daughter in the deep south . . . there are many Billy-Joe's who do their name proud. (Though they certainly can be odious if they forget their deodorant)

As for the astronaut . . . I was merely following on from Mars . . . but you technically correct (who drives those things, anyway? Self-driven or guided from GC? Ok, if from GC maybe an astronaut would be at the controls? )

Fair enough. I grew up the classic bicoastal upper middle class elitist who just went along with the prevailing view of the working class south but the Army - and some maturity and a more enlightened veiw of the world - cured me of that. I knew some very fine people - some from Arkansas but other places in The South as well - whom I previously wouldn't have balked at someone dismissing as ignorant rednecks.

These days I find it extremely unpalatable that there is one group that my fellow liberals are still allowed to make offensive stereotypes about...but I admit I find it especially offensive when it is combined with some ignorant US bashing:stereotyping - which I mistook your post for having an element of. (Solly bout that).

Oh, and if it were an astronaut at the controls, I'm fairly sure that would only be a coincedence - he'd be there only because he was the right sort of engineer/technician and not because he was trained as an astronaut.

Edited May 1, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Sing_Sling]

^ I grudgingly concede the 'astronaut' possibility

[bunnydrops]

Sure are a lot of vehicle accidents. Americans possibly forgetting which side of the road to drive on.

Interesting idea. Americans are driving a rover around on Mars right now, pretty hard to believe they cannot figure out which side of the road to drive on in Thailand......

Since the US got there first, I guess they decide which side to drive on.

[bangkokburning]

Interested in the suicides, I thought we all lived in paradise. Loss of funds,lost love, family problems here or home, general depression that existed prior to arrival.

Both accident and suicide rates seem high, Im under impression not really very many American expats here, especially outside Phuket.

The bulk going to Mexico or Caribbean.

Not loads of backpackers or tourists as well.

[dao16]

If you read the state dept's reports on any country, you will find pages and pages of incidents....crime, deaths, etc.....This actually doesn't seem that bad. Pick up the report about, Guatemala, say, and you will have some interesting reading.

[Arkady]

I remember someone at the British embassy a few years ago saying they were handling an average of one death a week. The American total looks relatively modest but there are probably more Brits in Thailand than Americans at any given moment with all the tourists and retirees.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Arkady

[Joe Mamma]

My wife heard that most fatal accidents happen within 5 miles of your home. Now we have to move 5 miles away again to be safe.

[fasteddie]

Wow! I'm impressed. We're into the third page at TV, and no-one has explicitly suggested that the suicides and 'other accidents' were actually 'hits' perpetrated by murderous Thai wives and their giks. Is that a tear in my eye?

Or Thaksins and the red shirts fault somehow.