Drinking Alchohol When Attempting Weight Loss

[poanoi]

Please elaborate "lack of exercising the mid section".. are you one of these guys who still believes in sit ups to reduce your mid section ?

This has been disproved millions of times already.

You burn fat all over your body doing any exercise you can't spot burn fat. If your exercising your legs you could burn fat from your belly. The body decides where it will get its fat from.

What a shame though. Wouldn't it be great if you could just exercise a specific part of the body to lose weight there.

What would be really fantastic is some meds that lets the body use body fat easily at any sight of deficit,

like clenbuterol on steroids, but without the cramps !

[OldChinaHam]

I gained 35 pounds from the age of 18 to now. And I figure I must have downed quite a few beers too.

Sort of conservatively, I guess I must have downed about 30,000 bottles of beer since I was 18.

I am no Keith Floyd though. He can cook.

And Keith was a good weight and healthy when he died, I wish he was alive today.

It is almost an impossible venture to effectively manipulate ones weight, long-term, so I do not try.

When I die, the heavier I am, the more for the worms.

And they will probably get drunk on the embalming fluid

As well.

[tropo]

Tropo,

We clearly have very different backgrounds that have shaped our mindset, and that's something I'll come to later.

I reject your claims that I've offered the worst advice imaginable.

You are conpletley against any kind of benchmarking. You therefore even reject the bleep test, developed by a university as a maximal test of CV fitness. There are also sit-up and press up bleep tests.

Benchmarking through best effort is used by civilian trainers and armed forces the world over. It is an important element of PT. Period. You can't measure progress in any other way. You can't assess fitness standards in any other way.

As to your disparaging description of the average TV user - it's irrelevant because best effort is entirely individual. The best effort of your average user over 1.5 miles might be only a jog for 200m, walking the rest and completing in 28 minutes. That's fine. It allows for a proper and realistic training programme to be developed for that individual.

4 weeks later that same individual tries again and improves his time. Progress is measured and confidence is built.

Regarding the 110% line you seem hung up on. Let me give you some further examples to illustrate what I mean (again read my previous post, it's not about flogging yourself all of the time):

- It's tackling the guy who's taller than you and has legs like tree trunks on the rugby pitch. And doing it again and again.

- It's getting that run in even if it's raining.

- It's not stopping just because of a blister or a toe nail coming loose.

- It's the effort given by people who do the World Marathon Challenge. The people who run long endurance races. The people who climb large peeks.

- It's showing some grit to achieve your aims of weight loss and increased levels of fitness regardless of where you start.

- It's an ethos, a spirit, a mind set.

I've never said to train through an injury. That's pointless, dangerous and I'd of thought obvious. I said resist the urge to quit because developing fitness is hard or you're huffing and puffing and feeling the pinch.

So, on to my background in order to address your stop if exhausted, treat the body gently, never give 100%, and the different mind sets we have.

In my teens I was, to be frank, a fat waste of oxygen. I went on to serve for 10 years as an airbourne infanteer. I gave everything to pass the course and achieve a dream.

I've faced the worst case: patrolling for 8 hours in 50 C, mentally and physically exhausted. A mate gets shot. His life was savable, but he couldn't be medevaced where we were. Exhaustion and treating our bodies gently didn't come into it. We busted our guts, gave our all, everything, and carried him and his gear out.

Why is this possible? Are we Supermen? No, we believed in 110%, 110% of the time. It was expected of everyone.

You'll probably retort this doesn't matter to a civilian. The details don't, the mind set does.

The moral? Anyone can shed pounds and get fit with the right attitude and hard work. But don't be work-shy. It takes commitment and effort.

Training for the army and combat is a totally different thing. Wasn't it interesting how I mentioned "18 year olds at an army camp"? I had you pegged right from the beginning.

I know where you are coming from and it would be difficult to convince you that there is a better way. A healthier way. I learned the hard way, but better late than never.

We've actually discussed the "commitment and effort" aspect to weight loss at length in another thread. There's a lot of complications to this theory. It is just not straightforward. however in your mind set it's ALL about determination and effort and nothing else.

[tropo]

And to make a more on-topic post: I drank like a fish as a soldier. Binge drinking even, coming off tour and getting smashed. Didn't stop me from being trim and fit.

Still drink, still fit.

Fit to do what? How old are you?

[OldChinaHam]

Tropo, if you do not mind my asking, where did you find that Avatar?

I have seen it many times in many forums here.

My personal opinion is that it is 2nd best from the ones I have so far seen.

I also like NotMySelf.

We only need to read the scientific literature to learn that weight gaining and losing is not something that can be managed by the individual so easily but seems to be governed by many things not directly in our control. I have tried both to gain weight and lose weight, and I find both next to impossible.

The only thing that is most striking to me is what I have directly observed during the past 35 years watching a society transform from a developing one to a developed society. When I first began living in Taiwan, I was amazed that everyone I saw, 98 percent, were really thin. I have watched people change their diet and lifestyle. People in Taiwan have become much heavier and as far as I know their alcohol consumption has not changed that much, especially among the female population.

[robblok]

Alcohol is a poison.. maybe good when you only drink a bit but otherwise its unhealthy and counters physicall fitness anyone saying otherwise is crazy and ill informed especially the Brith soldier posting here. I know your guys are renowned for drinking but its not healthy and you would be in even better shape if you did not.

Alcohol and weight loss.. low weight is not the same as being healthy, so it is true that if you drink a lot and adjust your calories you can stay relatively thin but it does not mean your healthy in the end calories in vs calories out always wins.

As for the effort thing, I agree with bangkockney that effort is important and im pretty sure Tropo is just being argumentitive as I know him to put his best effort in too and does not workout at a low intensity. But going 100% all the time is impossible and like tropo says bad for you.. all the strenght and other coaches know this that is why there is such a thing as perodisation. Read up about it it means that your body needs time to recover and you cant give 100% all the time if you want to keep progressing.

Going to faillure once in a while can be good.. it sometimes happens in an exercise once during a workout.. but not all set or all exercises or all the time. Benchmarking as bacnkockny says is also something that is good as you need to be able to keep track of progress and doing it once in a while is actually good and not going to hinder you much. Doing it all the time is.

Just my2 cents here.

[poanoi]

Here is a couple of guides that i follow somewhat,

being guides i have adjusted them for my particular conditions,

which in short means fewer reps and separation of shoulder/triceps w-o, due to my piss-poor stamina.

I'm dead certain shoulders should have lighter loads tho, due to their delicate and complicated joint,

and to further exacerbate things, i'm also extremely prone to rib dislocation due to an old injury,

another reason to be careful on shoulder w-o for me.

I also think that any exercise that involve bending the lower back should be discarded

even for people that still dont have a back problem, just to stay safe.

http://www.steroid.com/anabolic_workouts.php

http://www.kolozzeum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-50989.html

[bangkockney]

Age is but a number. The oldest man who ran in this year's London Marathon is 88. He started running competitively aged 61. He's completed 22 marathons to date. Would have been 23 but he had a heart attack in 2003 so missed that year's event.

My Dad is pushing 60 and runs marathons, (half) Iron Mans etc.

As for me, I'm a runner, it was a bread and butter part of my job. Still run in boots and bergan. Old habits die hard. I enjoy arduous events: Tough Mudder, Tough Guy, marathons, timed distances over 1.5, 3, 5, 10 and 20 miles, with and without weight. Medium distance (7 - 10 miles) fartlec is also awesome.

Haven't developed the needed love for swimming that Iron Man's require, much to the disappointment of my Dad who wants to compete together.

A life goal is to beat the London Marathon weighted run-time currently held by a Royal Marine: 4:01 with 40lbs, that's an epic time. The record for 40lbs over marathon distance is held by a Japanese guy who did it in 3:42. Jaw-dropping stuff.

You guys are into body building - a world I don't claim to know much about - so it's understandable why we are having a culture clash here. What I know is, if you want to run faster, you must practice running faster (e.g max effort intervals). I just hope you guys get some CV in to exercise your body's most important muscle.

It's also interesting to note that when preparing for a marathon, you never cover marathon distance. You must push on race day. Even more so if you're after a PB!

Back to alcohol:

Alcohol on its own isn't very good stuff, granted.

But beer is about 95% "other": water, electrolytes and vitamin B complexes. Hops are a good soporific with anti-bacterial properties (we're talking proper beer here).

The old-fashioned running scene (and fell-running still) was built on beer and pubs rather than dietary supplements with a pub or beer tent at the finish.

Guinness, pint of used to be given to post-natel women in hospital!

My approach to diet and drink is now one of moderation. I'll eat what I want as I recognise what it is that's going into my body and adjust training accordingly. I have no problems ordering a second chocolate fondant (once in a while) because I recognise extra work will have to be put in. Happy balance. I do however try to avoid empty calories, but I do love a Coke and Whopper once in a blue moon. Again, no worries as long as you recognise it for what it is.

Eat regularly, try to eat healthily (don't beat yourself up though, no need to live on pulses, nuts and wild flowers if you'd be unhappy) be physically active, and get the odd treat in when you deserve it to boost morale. I view calorie counting as pointless and depressing.

Regards your average TV user, I'd much prefer they start taking regular, strenuous exercise than tackle their diet first.

[bangkockney]

Forgot some things:

I'm not spoiling for a fight here. Have only just found this sub-forum, and as you can tell, PT is a passion of mine. It's great to hear others' views too and I genuinely don't believe I'm guilty of offering the worst possible advice imaginable!

Did have a look for the thread you mentioned Tropo, couldn't find it. Any chance of a link? TIA.

Fancy putting a team together to take on something like Tough Mudder? May not be possible as it does involve overseas travel, but a TV fancy-dress team busting a gut over a 10 mile assualt course, raising money for charity would be awesome!

[tropo]

Forgot some things:

I'm not spoiling for a fight here. Have only just found this sub-forum, and as you can tell, PT is a passion of mine. It's great to hear others' views too and I genuinely don't believe I'm guilty of offering the worst possible advice imaginable!

Did have a look for the thread you mentioned Tropo, couldn't find it. Any chance of a link? TIA.

Fancy putting a team together to take on something like Tough Mudder? May not be possible as it does involve overseas travel, but a TV fancy-dress team busting a gut over a 10 mile assualt course, raising money for charity would be awesome!

Here's a long thread on the subject, but there's a lot of bitching going on in there so it's not pretty.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/590329-is-being-fat-a-choice-if-there-is-no-underlying-medical-reason/page-2

In actual fact, despite the impression you may have gotten from my posting here, we are on the same page as far as exercise for weight loss is concerned.... but I've softened my approach somewhat. I would never expect anyone to push it as hard as I do in order to lose weight.

[OldChinaHam]

" I would never expect anyone to push it as hard as I do in order to lose weight."

Unless you are a lumberjack, a winter mountain climber, or training for the Olympic swim team, no matter how hard you push it, it probably will not be enough to burn up ten pancakes with maple syrup in the morning. We were designed to use every strategy to conserve calories, not burn them profligately without wringing every available bit of energy from them. Exercise is good but it will not compensate for calorie over consumption.

I have never worried about my weight. I tried to gain weight when I needed it to compete in sports competition when I was in my prime, but I never could gain more than about 3 kilos during the workout season. The same is true for weight loss. For me to try to manage my weight, lose weight by intentionally eating less, is hopeless.

I would not say that I am particularly rotund. But neither am I at a most healthy weight. I suppose if I were really put in a situation where I had to lose weight or forfeit something, then I would just buy a liter of Glenfiddich 21, down it, and forget about the whole thing the next day.

What is the advantage of trying to go against nature? My metabolism has had many decades to reach a finely tuned homeostasis that I do not wish to disturb at this late date.

And anyway, who wants to waste Single Malt like that?

There are plenty here that would call it a crime.

[tropo]

" I would never expect anyone to push it as hard as I do in order to lose weight."

Unless you are a lumberjack, a winter mountain climber, or training for the Olympic swim team, no matter how hard you push it, it probably will not be enough to burn up ten pancakes with maple syrup in the morning. We were designed to use every strategy to conserve calories, not burn them profligately without wringing every available bit of energy from them. Exercise is good but it will not compensate for calorie over consumption.

I have never worried about my weight. I tried to gain weight when I needed it to compete in sports competition when I was in my prime, but I never could gain more than about 3 kilos during the workout season. The same is true for weight loss. For me to try to manage my weight, lose weight by intentionally eating less, is hopeless.

I would not say that I am particularly rotund. But neither am I at a most healthy weight. I suppose if I were really put in a situation where I had to lose weight or forfeit something, then I would just buy a liter of Glenfiddich 21, down it, and forget about the whole thing the next day.

What is the advantage of trying to go against nature? My metabolism has had many decades to reach a finely tuned homeostasis that I do not wish to disturb at this late date.

And anyway, who wants to waste Single Malt like that?

There are plenty here that would call it a crime.

That statement of mine which you quoted was a bit ambiguous. I don't train to lose weight. I push myself to improve my physique. Keeping the fat at a desirable level is part of the job. I'm actually trying to gain muscle weight.

With enough dedication, knowledge and effort you can change your body quite a bit. It's not easy, but it can be done.

Regarding exercising to burn calories to lose fat... It's not impossible. I could do an hour of cardio and burn 1000 calories a day if I wished. I could burn that at home on my Concept2 rowing machine. You think that wouldn't result in weight loss if I kept the food intake constant? Compared to my current weight program I'd find it quite easy to burn that many calories per day... I could even push it higher... however doing that much cardio would also result in muscle loss.

[OldChinaHam]

You are right that it can be done if you push it to Olympic training levels. We have all heard the stories told of the US swimmer's prodigious appetite during breakfast eating almost everything in sight. Sorry I do not recall his name, but this takes huge determination. Also I think you need to be at an age where you can train at this level. If you are young enough it might be feasible for a while. From my personal experience I am not equipped to exercise at that level, nor do I have the daily determination. I also find it impossible not to eat when I am hungry. I am lucky that my body weight does not happen to be extremely high or low. BUT if it was, then I know I would probably not be able to do much about it. If I find it so difficult to gain or lose 10 kg at will, then how could I lose 18 kilos which is probably what I should do for optimum health. (I think I might have stated 30 kilos earlier, but I was calculating in pounds). As we age, we very often put on weight, and our body increases its fat ratio. I am mainly commenting on the difficulty I have personally found when I have tried to intentionally manipulate my weight.

[tropo]

You are right that it can be done if you push it to Olympic training levels. We have all heard the stories told of the US swimmer's prodigious appetite during breakfast eating almost everything in sight. Sorry I do not recall his name, but this takes huge determination. Also I think you need to be at an age where you can train at this level. If you are young enough it might be feasible for a while. From my personal experience I am not equipped to exercise at that level, nor do I have the daily determination. I also find it impossible not to eat when I am hungry. I am lucky that my body weight does not happen to be extremely high or low. BUT if it was, then I know I would probably not be able to do much about it. If I find it so difficult to gain or lose 10 kg at will, then how could I lose 18 kilos which is probably what I should do for optimum health. (I think I might have stated 30 kilos earlier, but I was calculating in pounds). As we age, we very often put on weight, and our body increases its fat ratio. I am mainly commenting on the difficulty I have personally found when I have tried to intentionally manipulate my weight.

At 53 I'm nowhere near Olympic training levels, but just using the Concept2 rower as an example, it's not impossible for a guy my age to burn a significant number of calories per day. 1000 calories would be a very intense one hour, or an easy 90 minutes on the rower. Running is an exceptional calorie burner, but unfortunately I can't do it due to arthritis in the knee (motorcycle accident) combined with a heavy body weight.

Now you know what I meant by saying that I wouldn't expect anyone to exercise to my level just to lose bodyfat. Not eating the food and a moderate level of exercise would be the best way to go for the average Joe.

I believe Michael Phelps put away 12,000 calories per day when he was training.

This will give you an idea of how much food that is:

[bangkockney]

Forgot some things:

I'm not spoiling for a fight here. Have only just found this sub-forum, and as you can tell, PT is a passion of mine. It's great to hear others' views too and I genuinely don't believe I'm guilty of offering the worst possible advice imaginable!

Did have a look for the thread you mentioned Tropo, couldn't find it. Any chance of a link? TIA.

Fancy putting a team together to take on something like Tough Mudder? May not be possible as it does involve overseas travel, but a TV fancy-dress team busting a gut over a 10 mile assualt course, raising money for charity would be awesome!

Here's a long thread on the subject, but there's a lot of bitching going on in there so it's not pretty.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/590329-is-being-fat-a-choice-if-there-is-no-underlying-medical-reason/page-2

In actual fact, despite the impression you may have gotten from my posting here, we are on the same page as far as exercise for weight loss is concerned.... but I've softened my approach somewhat. I would never expect anyone to push it as hard as I do in order to lose weight.

Currently working my way through that thread. Some interesting stuff, but you're right I did skip a lot!

The stand-out thing for me so far is something that wasn't discussed much (instead it formed a short slagging match!): blood work.

Now it's not something I'd consider doing regularly. However, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that it should be part of everyone's annual MOT.

Being able to observe changes in our body's chemistry and take action before any serious symptoms manifest themselves seems like a sensible idea to me.

Thanks again for taking the time to get the link for me.

I'm off to read some more.

[tropo]

Currently working my way through that thread. Some interesting stuff, but you're right I did skip a lot!

The stand-out thing for me so far is something that wasn't discussed much (instead it formed a short slagging match!): blood work.

Now it's not something I'd consider doing regularly. However, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that it should be part of everyone's annual MOT.

Being able to observe changes in our body's chemistry and take action before any serious symptoms manifest themselves seems like a sensible idea to me.

Thanks again for taking the time to get the link for me.

I'm off to read some more.

I get the basics tested once every 3 months. Lipid profile, kidney and liver function. CBC, HbA1c and estrogen.

I don't get GGT tested, but I would recommend that one for anyone who drinks heavily. Once the liver packs it in, you're done unless you can find a spare one somewhere and have lots of spare cash to have it "inserted". This is the number one biggest risk for drinkers. People just don't appreciate how important the liver is until it malfunctions.

[bangkockney]

Currently working my way through that thread. Some interesting stuff, but you're right I did skip a lot!

The stand-out thing for me so far is something that wasn't discussed much (instead it formed a short slagging match!): blood work.

Now it's not something I'd consider doing regularly. However, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that it should be part of everyone's annual MOT.

Being able to observe changes in our body's chemistry and take action before any serious symptoms manifest themselves seems like a sensible idea to me.

Thanks again for taking the time to get the link for me.

I'm off to read some more.

I get the basics tested once every 3 months. Lipid profile, kidney and liver function. CBC, HbA1c and estrogen.

I don't get GGT tested, but I would recommend that one for anyone who drinks heavily. Once the liver packs it in, you're done unless you can find a spare one somewhere and have lots of spare cash to have it "inserted". This is the number one biggest risk for drinkers. People just don't appreciate how important the liver is until it malfunctions.

I'll go start of next month. Anything I should consider that may bias the results?

[poanoi]

No, and you will also want to know what its like when you just live like always.

You may be interested in testosterone & estrogen level,

i was low on testosterone and high on estrogen (just typical, 180 degree wrong !)

but i got normal testosterone & low estrogen by supplementing 1 scoop D aspartic acid ED and half Anastrozole pill 2 day per week

[tropo]

I'll go start of next month. Anything I should consider that may bias the results?

I wouldn't change anything before you get tests. Eat, drink and exercise as you normally do.

If you're in Thailand, make sure you don't go for your lab tests in a dehydrated state. It's very hot here right now, so that can easily happen. Dehydration can skew results quite a bit. I normally drink at least a litre of water when I wake up on the test day.

[Tolley]

You are right that it can be done if you push it to Olympic training levels. We have all heard the stories told of the US swimmer's prodigious appetite during breakfast eating almost everything in sight. Sorry I do not recall his name, but this takes huge determination. Also I think you need to be at an age where you can train at this level. If you are young enough it might be feasible for a while. From my personal experience I am not equipped to exercise at that level, nor do I have the daily determination. I also find it impossible not to eat when I am hungry. I am lucky that my body weight does not happen to be extremely high or low. BUT if it was, then I know I would probably not be able to do much about it. If I find it so difficult to gain or lose 10 kg at will, then how could I lose 18 kilos which is probably what I should do for optimum health. (I think I might have stated 30 kilos earlier, but I was calculating in pounds). As we age, we very often put on weight, and our body increases its fat ratio. I am mainly commenting on the difficulty I have personally found when I have tried to intentionally manipulate my weight.

At 53 I'm nowhere near Olympic training levels, but just using the Concept2 rower as an example, it's not impossible for a guy my age to burn a significant number of calories per day. 1000 calories would be a very intense one hour, or an easy 90 minutes on the rower. Running is an exceptional calorie burner, but unfortunately I can't do it due to arthritis in the knee (motorcycle accident) combined with a heavy body weight.

Now you know what I meant by saying that I wouldn't expect anyone to exercise to my level just to lose bodyfat. Not eating the food and a moderate level of exercise would be the best way to go for the average Joe.

I believe Michael Phelps put away 12,000 calories per day when he was training.

This will give you an idea of how much food that is:

Heck that is a lot of food. No wonder I never made Olympic level it wasn't talent or ability or exercise it was because I couldn't eat enough!

Weight is mainly about what we eat regardless of exercise. Let's leave bodybuilders out of the equation here as they are a special case and just concentrate on your average Joe who might do a small amount of exercise but who is basically healthy.

For proof you don't have to go back too far maybe 20-30 years ago and you can see that the majority of people were not overweight and the main factor was no take away food and not a lot of rubbish in the diet. People may have been more active as well but not overly so and certainly not so much as to explain the differences in the obesity epidemic of people today.

Of course I believe in plenty of exercise and a good diet as the ideal way to live but even for those people who don't exercise much they can still be lean and healthy they just must be careful with what they eat.

[tropo]

For proof you don't have to go back too far maybe 20-30 years ago and you can see that the majority of people were not overweight and the main factor was no take away food and not a lot of rubbish in the diet. People may have been more active as well but not overly so and certainly not so much as to explain the differences in the obesity epidemic of people today.

20 - 30 years? I was eating Kentucky Fried Chicken in the early 70's. Burgers were a huge deal back then along with ice cream, milk shakes, sodas and all sorts of other calorific junk takeaway foods. McDonalds was huge in the 70's and before. If anything, people are far more concerned with what they eat now than they used to 30 - 40 years ago. Why do you think they changed Kentucky Fried Chicken to KFC?

Fish and chips were huge back in the 60's and 70's. Far more popular than today - it was a regular family meal and school lunch along with plain chips, sausages and chips etc. I can remember the daily queues at the local fish and chip shop 7 days a week.

Those were the days - the days when you could pig out on all these great foods without having to feel guilty.

I think there's other major reasons why people are fatter today. Computers and the general lack of activity are probably huge contributing factors.

[Tolley]

For proof you don't have to go back too far maybe 20-30 years ago and you can see that the majority of people were not overweight and the main factor was no take away food and not a lot of rubbish in the diet. People may have been more active as well but not overly so and certainly not so much as to explain the differences in the obesity epidemic of people today.

20 - 30 years? I was eating Kentucky Fried Chicken in the early 70's. Burgers were a huge deal back then along with ice cream, milk shakes, sodas and all sorts of other calorific junk takeaway foods. McDonalds was huge in the 70's and before. If anything, people are far more concerned with what they eat now than they used to 30 - 40 years ago. Why do you think they changed Kentucky Fried Chicken to KFC?

Fish and chips were huge back in the 60's and 70's. Far more popular than today - it was a regular family meal and school lunch along with plain chips, sausages and chips etc. I can remember the daily queues at the local fish and chip shop 7 days a week.

Those were the days - the days when you could pig out on all these great foods without having to feel guilty.

I think there's other major reasons why people are fatter today. Computers and the general lack of activity are probably huge contributing factors.

Yes there was junk food back in the 60s and 70s but no where near what there is today. The amount Australians spend of fast food is huge and rising all the time.

The first Maccas in Australia was in Kensington in around 1972. There weren't food courts everywhere like there is today. The majority of meals were still cooked at home. That is certainly not the case today. The money spent on meals away from home is huge.

Yes activity levels are generally down no doubt about that but food is still the number one influence on weight.

[poanoi]

I never thought i'd live to see the day when someone out-eat me,

i still eat as fast as that boy tho

[jombom]

My weight dropped about 15 kg in 18 months, although alcohol consumption remained much the same. Now it's 75 kgs which is much the same as schooling leaving age.

After considerable reflection, I decided it was due to the the fact that I almost never feel hungry, probably due to the temp etc. Now I have to remind myself to eat.

[tropo]

For proof you don't have to go back too far maybe 20-30 years ago and you can see that the majority of people were not overweight and the main factor was no take away food and not a lot of rubbish in the diet. People may have been more active as well but not overly so and certainly not so much as to explain the differences in the obesity epidemic of people today.

20 - 30 years? I was eating Kentucky Fried Chicken in the early 70's. Burgers were a huge deal back then along with ice cream, milk shakes, sodas and all sorts of other calorific junk takeaway foods. McDonalds was huge in the 70's and before. If anything, people are far more concerned with what they eat now than they used to 30 - 40 years ago. Why do you think they changed Kentucky Fried Chicken to KFC?

Fish and chips were huge back in the 60's and 70's. Far more popular than today - it was a regular family meal and school lunch along with plain chips, sausages and chips etc. I can remember the daily queues at the local fish and chip shop 7 days a week.

Those were the days - the days when you could pig out on all these great foods without having to feel guilty.

I think there's other major reasons why people are fatter today. Computers and the general lack of activity are probably huge contributing factors.

Yes there was junk food back in the 60s and 70s but no where near what there is today. The amount Australians spend of fast food is huge and rising all the time.

The first Maccas in Australia was in Kensington in around 1972. There weren't food courts everywhere like there is today. The majority of meals were still cooked at home. That is certainly not the case today. The money spent on meals away from home is huge.

Yes activity levels are generally down no doubt about that but food is still the number one influence on weight.

There may not have been many food courts back in the 70's and 80's, but there were far more mom & pop takeaway shops selling greasy burgers, fish & chip, pies etc. Now huge chains are dominating the fast food business, but I don't agree that it has increased, only changed. If anything, it's easier to buy healthy take away food now than it used to be. Subway, kebab stores, all late 80's in Australia, earlier in the US.

Have a look where the labourers and office workers in Australia buy lunch. It's the same old rubbish they've been eating for many decades. They certainly don't eat home cooked lunches. You'll find that now they have much healthier choices than they did in the 80's and 90's.

I can't go back to the 50's or further back because I'm not old enough, but the change is not a 20 - 30 year thing. They were eating just as much crap back then than they are now.

[Tolley]

For proof you don't have to go back too far maybe 20-30 years ago and you can see that the majority of people were not overweight and the main factor was no take away food and not a lot of rubbish in the diet. People may have been more active as well but not overly so and certainly not so much as to explain the differences in the obesity epidemic of people today.

20 - 30 years? I was eating Kentucky Fried Chicken in the early 70's. Burgers were a huge deal back then along with ice cream, milk shakes, sodas and all sorts of other calorific junk takeaway foods. McDonalds was huge in the 70's and before. If anything, people are far more concerned with what they eat now than they used to 30 - 40 years ago. Why do you think they changed Kentucky Fried Chicken to KFC?

Fish and chips were huge back in the 60's and 70's. Far more popular than today - it was a regular family meal and school lunch along with plain chips, sausages and chips etc. I can remember the daily queues at the local fish and chip shop 7 days a week.

Those were the days - the days when you could pig out on all these great foods without having to feel guilty.

I think there's other major reasons why people are fatter today. Computers and the general lack of activity are probably huge contributing factors.

Yes there was junk food back in the 60s and 70s but no where near what there is today. The amount Australians spend of fast food is huge and rising all the time.

The first Maccas in Australia was in Kensington in around 1972. There weren't food courts everywhere like there is today. The majority of meals were still cooked at home. That is certainly not the case today. The money spent on meals away from home is huge.

Yes activity levels are generally down no doubt about that but food is still the number one influence on weight.

There may not have been many food courts back in the 70's and 80's, but there were far more mom & pop takeaway shops selling greasy burgers, fish & chip, pies etc. Now huge chains are dominating the fast food business, but I don't agree that it has increased, only changed. If anything, it's easier to buy healthy take away food now than it used to be. Subway, kebab stores, all late 80's in Australia, earlier in the US.

Have a look where the labourers and office workers in Australia buy lunch. It's the same old rubbish they've been eating for many decades. They certainly don't eat home cooked lunches. You'll find that now they have much healthier choices than they did in the 80's and 90's.

I can't go back to the 50's or further back because I'm not old enough, but the change is not a 20 - 30 year thing. They were eating just as much crap back then than they are now.

Yes there are more healthy options available these days for take aways but still there seems to be a correlation between how much we spend on fast food today compared to the 60s and 70s. Further there was definitely not as many fat people in Australia in those days as there is now.

Here is some interesting facts on fast food in Oz.

http://spinneypress.com.au/books/fast-food/

And here are some interesting facts on changing spending habits and the increase in spending on fast foods.

http://www.commbank.com.au/about-us/news/media-releases/2013/australians-showing-a-taste-for-convenience.html

[samuibeachcomber]

eating the wrong food,no exercise puts the weight on.I am yet to see a fat alcoholic.

[robblok]

eating the wrong food,no exercise puts the weight on.I am yet to see a fat alcoholic.

I have seen them.. but many just like any other addicts don't eat anymore just drink and believe me alcohol is one thing that makes people easier fat as other things. Drinking calories always does.

[poanoi]

For me, i drink beer as a food replacement therapy (FRT)

i just dont have to eat when gut is full, by beer or otherwise,

and to top it off lots of food would also restrict the amount of beer i can swallow.

To further exacerbate things i also get some serious diarrhea while on a beer cycle,

to the point where i have to take a day or two off

[tropo]

Yes there are more healthy options available these days for take aways but still there seems to be a correlation between how much we spend on fast food today compared to the 60s and 70s. Further there was definitely not as many fat people in Australia in those days as there is now.

Here is some interesting facts on fast food in Oz.

http://spinneypress.com.au/books/fast-food/

And here are some interesting facts on changing spending habits and the increase in spending on fast foods.

http://www.commbank.com.au/about-us/news/media-releases/2013/australians-showing-a-taste-for-convenience.html

Seriously, don't you miss the days when you could pig out on fish & chips, a nice big greasy burger or a barrel of Kentucky Fried Chicken, a meat pie etc, and not feel bad/guilty?