Proof Of Medical Insurance Proposed For 1 Year Visa

[up2me4now]

Reading in the Bangkok post. The authorities have now turned to the Immigration Dept to make a requirement of a full authentic medical insurance policy mandatory for a 1 year non immigrant visa.

This as resulted from various attempts to stem the increasing medical assistance to uninsured farangs involved in accidents and sudden ill health situations which is hovering around 7 million baht a month for some provinces.

Most Foreign embasses adopt the attitude of seeking financial help to these unfortunates from family or friends or just refusing to get involved wth financial assistance to their nationals.

I am sure it will happen but just wonder how many expats have the relevant comprehensive insurance polices in place.

Edited May 3, 2013 by up2me4now

[Jingthing]

Don't get excited until it actually happens.

This is the actual source:

http://pattaya-today.com/news/news-from-around-pattaya/compulsory-insurance-for-expats-and-tourists/

As regards older expats on one year visas, the most likely outcome is
that applications will need to be accompanied by valid medical insurance
or proof of a greater income or cash deposits than is currently
required (800,000 baht for a retiree visa and 400,000 for a farang with a
Thai spouse).

Not the most convincing source in the world. For example this quote is not attributed to ANYBODY. It sounds like a wild guess from the article writer. If he had an authoritative source for that guess, wouldn't he NAME it?

Edited May 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[up2me4now]

Valid point Jingthing.

But still wonder how many expats have their heads burried in the sand on this subject.

[up2me4now]

Valid point Jingthing.

But still wonder how many expats have their heads burried in the sand on this subject.

It ain't the destination but the journey that counts.

[WaywardWind]

I don't have a problem with this as we keep our medical insurance current, but there could be one glitch in timing.

Our retirement visas are renewed every April, while our medical insurance doesn't renew until August, so when we renew our visas, the insurance proof will only have 3 months of validity.

Perhaps demonstrating proof of current insurance with the 90 day reports would fix the glitch?

[chris2004]

What about the farangs over 65 or with pre existing conditions. They couldn't get health insurance. Would this mean they can't get visas as well?

[gmac]

Bearing in mind that it is very difficult to maintain health insurance policies past the age of 65 it would be a matter of the immigration authorities taking a decision on whether or not they actually want retirees in the country. Don't know how many there are, or even what their perceived value is to Thailand, but to make health insurance mandatory for the over 65's would be tantamount to telling them to leave.

[Jingthing]

That's the problem. A large percentage of people are uninsurable by private insurance policies. If the Thai government wants to require this AND be fair (they are not required to be fair of course) they will find a way to either offer some kind of policy to ALL including the uninsurable OR as Malaysia does proof of application and DENIAL will justify an EXEMPTION from the requirement.

Because of these issues, causing a mass exodus and indeed bad international publicity that long time retirees will be booted out and forced to liquidate assets such as real estate under duress, that I don't think Thailand will ACTUALLY do this. They could solve this with the Malaysia style exemption for proven insurance REJECTION, but that seems against the general inflexible nature of Thai immigration rules.

Of course, they could just do something really stupid and rash (it happens sometimes), not even understanding the mass exodus and bad international publicity they would be creating by rashly passing such a rule without an offer of coverage for ALL applicants or a rejection exemption exception.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Jingthing

[pinfold]

Bearing in mind that it is very difficult to maintain health insurance policies past the age of 65 it would be a matter of the immigration authorities taking a decision on whether or not they actually want retirees in the country. Don't know how many there are, or even what their perceived value is to Thailand, but to make health insurance mandatory for the over 65's would be tantamount to telling them to leave.

Correct,and a win,win and win again option for Thailand PLC. At a stroke get rid of a section of the farang population that is hated and was hoisted onto them through the financial crash,all the illegal bought property issue ,all the ancient farang (bed bound young ones too) taking health care resources from the Thais,suddenly vanish. Can hardly say Thailand is unjust as a lot of other countries carry this requirement too.

Personally I think a lot of the farang population would welcome such a move too,fed up to the back teeth with Thailand, but putting up with it through wife/girlfriend/dog /cat /pet budgie etc.,and through being totally undecided where to go to next, when push comes to shove it makes the mind up real quick. It is only a 12 month leash that was extended to farang anyway,was nothing permanent as to an option as to spending the rest of your life here.

The people who bought "life" insurance here in Thailand thinking "life" was until death do us part I would specifically ask the insurance company a few searching questions too,60/65 /70 years old, off their books,with matching premiums that would make your head spin.

Soon as any statement regarding moves such as this,and this was widely reported few months ago,watch the immigration queue at Soi 5 extend itself to 5 times around the block

(Well perhaps not,can only "do" you for 20,000 Baht maximum,bit of jail time too, but might squeeze a few more years out of it.)

Edited May 4, 2013 by pinfold

[Jingthing]

Correct,and a win,win and win again option for Thailand PLC. At a stroke get rid of a section of the farang population that is hated and was hoisted onto them through the financial crash,all the illegal bought property issue ,all the ancient farang (bed bound young ones too) taking health care resources from the Thais,suddenly vanish.

...

First they came for the uninsurable ...

Edited May 4, 2013 by Jingthing

[Pattaya28]

Never-ending proposals that never happen

[Jingthing]

Never-ending proposals that never happen

Hopefully that is true because that is better than a rash action without regard for considering the inhumane consequences.

The fact that they CAN change the rules in the middle of the game for long term settled retirees, in effect booting them out on SHORT NOTICE which in my view is questionable from a human rights angle, is the main reason I have been posting about how lousy it is that there is no possible path for long term retirees towards permanent residence status. First year, thirtieth year, exactly the same provisional status (more like LACK of status).

That said, Thailand COULD do the right thing and offer a government health insurance BUY IN scheme for retired expats. Other retirement visa destination countries do. I don't expect Thailand will though. I reckon most long term retirees here will share my pessimism about that.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Jingthing

[chiang mai]

Another option is that they might grandfather the proposal, e.g. applicable only to new O-A visa's after a certain date. Let's face it, they have been known to change the amount required each year in order to be elligible for a retirement visa and the new amount is always grandfathered.

[Jingthing]

Another option is that they might grandfather the proposal, e.g. applicable only to new O-A visa's after a certain date. Let's face it, they have been known to change the amount required each year in order to be elligible for a retirement visa and the new amount is always grandfathered.

Yes you're talking about raising financial requirements now. That is true.

I was talking about the perceived threat of an insurance requirement ... NOT grandfathered, with no government buy in alternative option, and also with no exemption allowance for proof of rejected insurance policy either. Such a rash action would indeed result in great human suffering (unplanned for short time frame evictions of long term settled older people) and really bad publicity for Thailand as well. Frankly if they do this, they would DESERVE all the bad publicity they might get in the international press.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Jingthing

[pinfold]

Never-ending proposals that never happen

If the increasing burden of uninsured farang on Thailand's health resources ceased, I would agree,but the Thais are being boxed in on this issue. It will not go away for sure,too many of Thailand's health authorities are calling on central government to take urgent action

[Jingthing]

Never-ending proposals that never happen

If the increasing burden of uninsured farang on Thailand's health resources ceased, I would agree,but the Thais are being boxed in on this issue. It will not go away for sure,too many of Thailand's health authorities are calling on central government to take urgent action

I'm not even convinced this great burden even exists in a significant way. You do realize in Thailand, if uninsured, you pay or you go away?

Thailand in general is reacting on this issue mainly because of bad international publicity about that general policy: pay or go away, in regards to tourists getting into accidents mostly. It makes Thailand look like a barbaric country.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Jingthing

[pinfold]

Never-ending proposals that never happen

If the increasing burden of uninsured farang on Thailand's health resources ceased, I would agree,but the Thais are being boxed in on this issue. It will not go away for sure,too many of Thailand's health authorities are calling on central government to take urgent action

I'm not even convinced this great burden even exists in a significant way. You do realize in Thailand, if uninsured, you pay or you go away?

Thailand in general is reacting on this issue mainly because of bad international publicity about that general policy: pay or go away, in regards to tourists getting into accidents mostly. It makes Thailand look like a barbaric country.

How Thailand is perceived internationally by Thailand generally I do not think they could give two hoots

[Jingthing]

How Thailand is perceived internationally by Thailand generally I do not think they could give two hoots

You are totally wrong if it threatens TOURISM arrivals.

Not only that. Actually they DO care. They care a lot. Sometimes to absurd levels. Such as that silly official Thai government protest against the USA comedy show's skit which touched on the sex industry in Thailand.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Jingthing

[Sheryl]

I expect that it will happen sooner or later as it is a real problem for the Thai public health system. The private hospitals can toss out those who can't pay but the government facilities cannot, and it is a real drain on their already overstretched resources. Unlike Thais, they do not receive anything from the government budget to offset the cost of caring for farang.

However would likely have a self-insure option i.e. either X $/income and proof of insurance OR a larger amt of $.

If we're lucky the requirement would spark the creation of a scheme to provide a minimum level of insurance to foreign retirees. Since as noted, a major problem is that people who retire here are often unable to obtain private insurance.

It would actually not be that hard to do through the existing government Social Security system. Properly constructed it could compensate the government hospitals adequately and bring in revenue to the SS system will still being a good deal for expats.

[Jingthing]

I would massively welcome a government buy in option. Please. Pretty please. It sounds too good and too logical to actually happen though, sad to say.

[pinfold]

I expect that it will happen sooner or later as it is a real problem for the Thai public health system. The private hospitals can toss out those who can't pay but the government facilities cannot, and it is a real drain on their already overstretched resources. Unlike Thais, they do not receive anything from the government budget to offset the cost of caring for farang.

However would likely have a self-insure option i.e. either X $/income and proof of insurance OR a larger amt of $.

If we're lucky the requirement would spark the creation of a scheme to provide a minimum level of insurance to foreign retirees. Since as noted, a major problem is that people who retire here are often unable to obtain private insurance.

It would actually not be that hard to do through the existing government Social Security system. Properly constructed it could compensate the government hospitals adequately and bring in revenue to the SS system will still being a good deal for expats.

Thanks Sheryl,

Could even charter 'planes to get the old sods off to India for cheaper than cheap medical requirements too.

[chiang mai]

I expect that it will happen sooner or later as it is a real problem for the Thai public health system. The private hospitals can toss out those who can't pay but the government facilities cannot, and it is a real drain on their already overstretched resources. Unlike Thais, they do not receive anything from the government budget to offset the cost of caring for farang.

However would likely have a self-insure option i.e. either X $/income and proof of insurance OR a larger amt of $.

If we're lucky the requirement would spark the creation of a scheme to provide a minimum level of insurance to foreign retirees. Since as noted, a major problem is that people who retire here are often unable to obtain private insurance.

It would actually not be that hard to do through the existing government Social Security system. Properly constructed it could compensate the government hospitals adequately and bring in revenue to the SS system will still being a good deal for expats.

Thanks Sheryl,

Could even charter 'planes to get the old sods off to India for cheaper than cheap medical requirements too.

You mean the same way that the US health insurers are doing now by contracting out their services to Thailand, a.k.a blue cross blue shield. Pretty soon the skies wil be filled with planes full of the sick and aged as they get shuttled from one inexpensive country to the next, scary but likely.

And Oi, watch who you're calling an old sod!

Edited May 4, 2013 by chiang mai

[ThaiBob]

Looking at my crystal ball, I envision an increase in the 400/800k retirement bank account requirement or something like a medical bond for those who cannot afford or are uninsurable for whatever reason. The increase could go towards a medical account. I have a 72 year old friend who has an all inclusive BUPA policy and the annual premium is 120k. If you decide to retire in a foreign country the expectations are you have the financial ability to do so. I know if I was a poor Thai and some foreigner stiffed the government I would be livid and I can understand why the government is under pressure to do something.

[meatboy]

one group they can start with if gov.hospices are strapped for cash is all the motorists that are not insured.

[ThaiBob]

I expect that it will happen sooner or later as it is a real problem for the Thai public health system. The private hospitals can toss out those who can't pay but the government facilities cannot, and it is a real drain on their already overstretched resources. Unlike Thais, they do not receive anything from the government budget to offset the cost of caring for farang.

However would likely have a self-insure option i.e. either X $/income and proof of insurance OR a larger amt of $.

If we're lucky the requirement would spark the creation of a scheme to provide a minimum level of insurance to foreign retirees. Since as noted, a major problem is that people who retire here are often unable to obtain private insurance.

It would actually not be that hard to do through the existing government Social Security system. Properly constructed it could compensate the government hospitals adequately and bring in revenue to the SS system will still being a good deal for expats.

Not going to happen. The onus will be placed where it belongs... on the foreign retirees. Buy insurance (like me) or show you have got the finances to pay for a major medical event.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Bearing in mind that it is very difficult to maintain health insurance policies past the age of 65 it would be a matter of the immigration authorities taking a decision on whether or not they actually want retirees in the country. Don't know how many there are, or even what their perceived value is to Thailand, but to make health insurance mandatory for the over 65's would be tantamount to telling them to leave.

Possibly...but how does this,affect retires from countries with nationalized health insurance systems. Do they pay for accidents or illness treatment outside their home countries? I know Medicare in the USA ("greatest healthcare system in the world") doesn't pay for treatment outside the country. At least military vets are covered under their Tricare system overseas. My current understanding is that the private and government subsidized private policies all Americans will be required to more or purchase under "Obamacare" also won't include foreign coverage.

Maybe Thai carriers will start offering policies to older foreigners or the govt will allow foreigners to buy into the Thai health insurance scheme. Otherwise, lots of people will be moving on.

[OMGImInPattaya]

That's the problem. A large percentage of people are uninsurable by private insurance policies. If the Thai government wants to require this AND be fair (they are not required to be fair of course) they will find a way to either offer some kind of policy to ALL including the uninsurable OR as Malaysia does proof of application and DENIAL will justify an EXEMPTION from the requirement.

Because of these issues, causing a mass exodus and indeed bad international publicity that long time retirees will be booted out and forced to liquidate assets such as real estate under duress, that I don't think Thailand will ACTUALLY do this. They could solve this with the Malaysia style exemption for proven insurance REJECTION, but that seems against the general inflexible nature of Thai immigration rules.

Of course, they could just do something really stupid and rash (it happens sometimes), not even understanding the mass exodus and bad international publicity they would be creating by rashly passing such a rule without an offer of coverage for ALL applicants or a rejection exemption exception.

One way to go, ant they have done this with other new immigration rules, is to grandfather in those already on their "retirement" visa extensions and enforce the new rule for all new applications. Then at least uninsured or indigent faring medical costs would be limited to only those geezers currently retired in Thailand and who cant afford their own care. New applicants would be on notice that if/when they could no longer obtain private medical insurance (or maybe meet some increased bank account threshold) that their retirement visa would not be renewed.

[ignis]

Guess they will set up a table with 2 chair, buy when you arrive..

Think there are places that sell heath Insurance, No questions asked 400 baht per month

like if you buy a car go to the office to get the car transferred into your name, there is someone at a table to sell you the Insurance..

Of course they would have to see the Insurance every 90 days or people will just pay the 1st month only

[kennedy]

I took it upon myself to discuss a BUY IN with an person in hospital administration. She((a friend) thought it was a great idea.The hospital has close ties with the King's daughter. She said she would pass this idea on to the higher ups.

It's odd that about 2 months after talking to her, this came out in the news.

Maybe it worked, maybe it didn't, but I know one thing, ex-pats talking to each other about it does not work.

[Soutpeel]

For once a good common sense initative from immigration...make foreigners living here have medical insurance and tie it to their visa renewal.

Further they should include the rule that if someone ends up in hospital with no insurance..ie they have only paid for the insurance for a short period of time only to obtain the visa then cancelled the policy, their visa's are withdrawn immediately as they are not complying with the terms of their visa issue and said persons must leave the country.