Train Travel In Vietnam

[watcharacters]

I've tried the search function of the forum and put in as many topics as my brain can produce. I keep getting a no results message.

I've also looked up the same topics on google and while helpful, so much of it is is fairly old and perhaps outdated.

Situation:

I'm located not too far from Udon Thani. I'd like to spend three weeks or so in Vietnam with the Missus. I've read some people think it's better to allow more time for Hanoi rather than HCMC but for sure I want to see the US Embassy where the final lift off happened and the war essentially ended. I wouldn't be surprised to find before too long the former embassy will be knocked down to become a shopping mall.

I like the idea of seeing some countryside and am thinking about train travel. I've used the train a couple of times in LOS and found it was a good experience. I'm thinking about taking the train in Vietnam.

I've read there are "private cars" available but can't find much information on them. Any recent experiences?

What would you recommend for a trip to Vietnam?

I'd like to know about your thoughts regarding cities to visit, hotels to stay, as well as what you did in various cities you've seen.

All information will be much appreciated. If you've been there I'd like to hear about it.

TIA

Edited May 4, 2013 by watcharacters

[craigt3365]

It's been several years since I did my 4 week trip there, but I'll pass on my thoughts. I did like Hanoi more than HCMC. But HCMC does have an interesting museum and you can go out and see the tunnels on a day trip. What I really liked was a 3 day tour of the delta. It was fantastic.

From HCMC, I went to Dalat. Loved it. Took the bus and it was a nice journey. Then went to Nha Trang (OK beach town) and then the bus up to Hue. I really liked Hue, especially the boat trip up the river. Spent a few days in Hoi An, which is quite interesting.

From there I flew to Hanoi. Others I was with did the bus and they said it was horrible. Can't tell you about the train, but it's a fairly long ride and the flight was super cheap. So I flew.

I loved Hanoi. Crazy, chaotic, but fun. I did a 2 night tour of Ha Long bay, which was OK. Did a day tour to some cave and market nearby, was pretty cool. Wanted to visit Sapa, but it snowed and the roads were closed. So headed back to Thailand.

There are some other sights I'd like to see, but don't know much about them:

Mui Ne, Vang Tau and Phu Quoc for the beaches.

I've heard the highlands are great to explore. Some friends did it on the back of motorcycles and said it was the highlight of their RTW trip.

Anyway, hope this helps!!! Might be a good time to visit as I'm reading tourist numbers are down. Not sure why, but it's being reported in the news.

[simple1]

A train trip I would suggest is from Hanoi to SAPA - you can get a private sleeper cabin return for around US$100 each. Be aware that where the train stops (Lao Cai) to get transport up to SAPA they have very aggressive touts, so arrange for your hotel to met you at the station. As Craig says domestic flights between the main cities is relatively cheap & better than long train trips.

SAPA train info at http://www.sapatrain.com/ or more general train info at http://www.seat61.com/Vietnam.htm

[pomchop]

http://www.travelfish.org/getting_around/vietnam

[TPI]

Get to HCMC and jump on the "Reunification Express"...have fun! A wonderful trip!

[rfukata]

A train trip I would suggest is from Hanoi to SAPA - you can get a private sleeper cabin return for around US$100 each. Be aware that where the train stops (Lao Cai) to get transport up to SAPA they have very aggressive touts, so arrange for your hotel to met you at the station. As Craig says domestic flights between the main cities is relatively cheap & better than long train trips.

SAPA train info at http://www.sapatrain.com/ or more general train info at http://www.seat61.com/Vietnam.htm

I've taken this train trip 4 times for business into HeKou (chinese border) with Lao Cai (Vietnamese side). The train ride takes about 8 hours from

GaHanoi (Hanoi station) to Laocai station, at that time departures on the express (not too fast) departed at night from both starting & ending station.

Yes, there are schedule domestic flights from HCM to northern cities, Hanoi (noibai) and Haiphong airport for a reasonable cost with Vietnam airlines.

Check out the local travel agent there for prices on train and air. Enjoy you trip - food is delicious, women are beautiful (up north in Hanoi).

[Ducnguyen]

I'm Vietnamese and we prefer to take bus/coach/cars than the train. Trains there are old (since the 80s!) and the train company does not want to improve them. We only get on a train if we want to go to Lao cai/Sapa since this is the most convenient way to get there.

Sapa, Da Nang, Hoi An, Mui Ne, Phan Thiet, Phu Quoc, Ha Noi, Sai Gon are all worth a visit.

Mekong Delta is also very interesting.

If you are adventurous enough. Hire a good motorbike and drive with your Missus to the northern mountains. The view is magnificent and the trip will be really fun.

[Doc50]

I was there a few weeks ago.

The old US Embassy has been torn down. Plaque on the wall of the compound is all you can see.

From wikipedia

Following the establishment of diplomatic relations between the United States and Vietnam, a new U.S. embassy was opened in Hanoi in 1995 and the site of the former U.S. Embassy in Saigon was handed back to the U.S. government.

It was decided that the former U.S. Embassy building was unusable
after more than 20 years of neglect in Vietnam's tropical climate,^[37]
but it also seems likely that the history of the building itself
carried such negative connotations that it did not fit with the new
U.S.–Vietnam relationship. The former U.S. Embassy was demolished in
May–July 1998 and the new Consulate-General of the United States in Ho Chi Minh City was built on the old consular compound adjacent to the old Embassy site.

[asanee]

Amazed that noone has yet bothered to name THE site for all train-buff travel: seat61.com. has all the info you need. be aware though that it omits any possibly slightly negatve thing about the iron rooster-which there certainly is. For the rest: ever realised there are still guidebooks?

Trains are as a general rule better as in TH, renovated, ex -soviet style 4-bed sleepers.

And LP still prints this warning-as for the ''mrs''ás I assume she is Isany/Thai?: such mixed couples with Asian women may still be subject to verbal harrassment from the (male) VNese-but as its mostly in that lingo, she wont understand much of it.

[simple1]

Amazed that noone has yet bothered to name THE site for all train-buff travel: seat61.com. has all the info you need. be aware though that it omits any possibly slightly negatve thing about the iron rooster-which there certainly is. For the rest: ever realised there are still guidebooks?

Trains are as a general rule better as in TH, renovated, ex -soviet style 4-bed sleepers.

And LP still prints this warning-as for the ''mrs''ás I assume she is Isany/Thai?: such mixed couples with Asian women may still be subject to verbal harrassment from the (male) VNese-but as its mostly in that lingo, she wont understand much of it.

refer post #3 re seat61. Last year three weeks in Vietnam with Thai wife, many locals initially spoke to her in their language - as far as we were aware no attitude other than attempts to increase prices when she did not speak Vietnamese

My wife loved Vietnam & would like to return for a holiday, as I would

[Ticketmaster]

I spent a month in Vietnam with a friend. From BKK, we flew into Saigon, then flew out of Hanoi back to BKK. Starting in the south, we carried backpacks and did all our traveling by van, bus and train. Pretty much did all the things and places described by posters above. I have only this to add about buying tickets and stuff.

Simple 1 says they have aggressive touts at Sapa. "Aggressive" isn't the word for it. They were on us like a pack of hyenas on a rotting zebra. Couldn't shake them. After we came in on the train, we wanted to take a same-day van to Lao Cai. Having been in the country for awhile already, we knew what we should pay for the fare, but these touts were insisting on 20 to 50 times what it should cost! We couldn't get anything out of the van drivers. We tried and tried until all the vans and buses were gone. We then went to a cheap hotel, where the owner, grateful for our business said he would get us fixed up first thing in the morning, which he did.

Now, I mention this because unless you want to spend a lot of transportation money on profits for the various touts, you must learn the ropes, because aggressive touts are everywhere. Even the hotels are touts. One poster mentioned paying $100 for a train trip. I NEVER saw any fares for any level of service anywhere close to that. That poster probably bought his ticket from his hotel, which charged him 5 to 10 times what he would have paid at the train station. We learned this early on. Your hotel will tell you that their offered price for a train or bus ticket is "no profit, same as you pay at the bus or train station." They ALL do it and they are ALL lying. Take a cab (metered) to the bus or train station and buy your ticket AT THE WINDOW! At the window, because there are dozens f touts out in the parking lot: "Where you go, where you go? I help you!" Yeah, right. the trains are government run and the prices at the window are fixed. You might want to go to the train station a day early to buy the ticket though, as the accommodation you want may sell out.

Never do business with anyone who wants to "help" you. The thing I came away with from Vietnam was the intensity with which everybody is trying to separate you from your money. I have never seen anything quite like it ever, anywhere.

Even taking a boat from a tour boat company, the prices are all over the board. We found that as the departure time approached, the ticket price would plummet, sometimes by 50% or more. Sometimes there are more than one tour boat operators near each other and you can go back and forth between them. Instead of being in collusion they are eager to cut each other's throats. NEVER just walk in and buy a ticket; you'll pay two or three times what you could have had it for. Also, riding out to an island, I struck up an conversation with an English speaking Vietnamese woman. She had a hotel on the island, and traveled back and forth often. I asked here what she paid and she told me. It was half what I paid, even after all my haggling. I asked her if she could arrange my return trip for that amount if I stayed at her hotel. She said sure. I stayed at her hotel, which was beautiful and cheap and got the cheap return ticket. The locals know what the "regular" price is, you never do. You just have to work it. It will wear you down.

If you get a bowl of soup from a street vendor, he will charge you 5 to 10 times as much as he would charge a Vietnamese. Okay, they are only trying to make a living and they perceive me as rich, and relatively speaking, maybe I am. What's a couple of dong? But I took it as a challenge. If I wanted a bowl of noodle soup from a street vendor, I would stand there and observe. I would see a certain soup and watch what the customer paid for it. Then I would point out another customer with the same soup and say I wanted that one. I would get it and eat it and then drop the exact change into the vendors hand, at which time he would go nearly ballistic saying, "Not enough, not enough!" I would just smile and walk away.

When you get there, just learn the ropes and do everything yourself. On the other hand, If you have a lot of money and don't mind spreading it around, buy everything from touts. You'll pay 10 to 20 times as much, but you'll have smooth sailing, no stress and you will make them all very happy. It's your choice.

By the way, for the locals in the South, Saigon is the preferred moniker for that southern city. They didn't like the communists back when and they still don't. It is the opposite in the North. It is strange, though, although communists run the country, capitalism clearly won the war for the economy. That is nowhere more apparent than in the rough and tumble Saigon.

Finally, Lao Cai in the north gets a lot of mention, but don't overlook Da Lat in mid country. It can be a bit tough to get to, but is a very beautiful and relaxing place with a lot of French influence (as in the north). It is worth the effort.

One more thing, which should be common sense. Make a lot of photo copies of your passport. NEVER let anybody even TOUCH the original. Show it, but NEVER let it out of your hands. It is a police state and hotel operators must report your presence immediately. Some will say they must take your passport. I flatly refused and gave them a copy. Didn't care if they liked it or not. If somebody gets a hold of you passport, it could become a bargaining chip for money, or, heaven forbid, if somebody somehow lost it, you would be screwed in that country.

[craigt3365]

Great post, ticketmaster! Scams abound in VN. When I was there, quite a few years ago, there were 2 bus companies with the same name. One was pretty good, the other horrible. Luckily, I found this out before hand and got on the more reliable one.

What I liked about this setup was they dropped you off INSIDE the walls of a hotel/restaurant/office complex. You were under no obligation to spend the night there, but it kept the hordes of touts from accosting you as you exited the bus. There were dozens of them when we'd arrive at our destination...so I'd just check in that that hotel, unpack, relax and wait for the masses to go away. The rates for the hotel were pretty good and they were very clean and quite hotels.

I was a relatively new traveler back then and got caught in a scam in Hanoi. A group of very well dressed young men approached me with the tried and true "we'd like to practice our English" scam. I got suckered in. They took me to a cafe for a cup of coffee. I figured I could afford the 50 cents each. But then plates of food showed up. Luckily, I refused to pay and just left, but did pay for the coffees.

Another scam was the "your hotel is closed, let me take you to another one". I new this was a scam, refused, but the driver still took me there. Took out my bags even as I was protesting. I got very angry and he relented. Put my bags back in and took me to where I wanted to go. I'm sure I got scammed for the taxi fare, but landed late at night...what can you do. Taxi scams abound all over the world.

[simple1]

@Ticketmaster. As I said a "luxury" twin berth sleeper cabin. Note it's a bit of a challenge to sleep as so much noise from the poor rail lines, luckily I had my custom made earplugs. A year ago it cost approx US$75 each from the ticket office at the train station in Hanoi. Looking at the website, price has gone up.

OP: Don't forget to drink the Vietnamese coffee from the street vendors, it's delicious and very cheap.

[easyas]

Never travel by train! Dirty and very very slow. Travel by air instead, up to date aircraft, loads of flights between the major cities/towns and cheap. Note that there are officially two prices for the same seat. Vietnamese travel more cheaply than foreigners, but even for foreigners the seat price is still cheap. I would give Saigon a miss altogether, Hanoi's much more interesting. I'd give Sapa a miss too unless you're into trekking, much more interesting (and NOT to be missed!) is Halong Bay. Organise a 2/3 day visit out of Hanoi. Another essential for women is to visit Hoi An (Danang and its airport is just 30 minutes away by taxi - also cheap) as it is reputed to have over 1000 tailors - take a couple of Vogues or what have you with you - point to the picture and pick it up the next day! Savile Row tailoring for men also!

Foreigners are not allowed to drive cars (motorbikes OK) but it is very easy to find a driver and up to date car. If you do end up in Hoi An there's a spectacular coastal road over the Hoi Van pass to Hue (another airport town) - just tell your driver you want to go OVER the pass, not UNDER it as nowadays you can. Hue used to be Vietnam's capital many moons ago and it has some spectacular buildings, including the Citadel which the US Navy used for target practice from the safety of the ocean some 60 miles out. The Vietnamese Government has not rebuilt it (other than making it safe to walk through), preferring to leave it as a momento of the American War.

[craigt3365]

Wow...another great post! If I remember correctly, there's a train that goes along that coast from Hoi An to Hue? I remember taking one and the scenery was quite nice. Right along the coast.

[simple1]

It's true that SAPA is only good for a few days or so, but the mountain scenery is beautiful, especially when it's misty. We went on one of the day walks with a Hill Tribe guide (in places steep downhill walk, car back up to the town) to some of the villages & that's interesting, you do get hassled a bit to buy stuff - keep a smile & it's fine. Otherwise you can hire a driver to go further into the mountains or as said a 2/3 day trekking trip.

Just a very personnel observation, I think Hue is overrated, unless you like visiting yet another temple or ruins. Hoi An is good and you can bicycle for about 30 minutes (usually provided free of charge by the guest house) from the town to the great clean beaches and sea There is also a day bicycle tour in Hoi An run by a French guy with Vietnamese guides that takes you to some of the local villages where they have brick works, by hand boat building etc Good restaurants to try at night with all the street lights making it attractive, many old traditional building as one of the towns not destroyed by bombing/combat during the war.

[easyas]

Wow...another great post! If I remember correctly, there's a train that goes along that coast from Hoi An to Hue? I remember taking one and the scenery was quite nice. Right along the coast.

Not sure about that. I don't remember whether Hoi An is on the rail network. The rail link to Hue would probably be from Danang. And I doubt whether the scenic route still exists - the route would probably now be through the tunnel? In any event, as said before trains are dirty and very, very slow AND you can't get off to take in the views, chug down a tinny or two and hop back on again at will as you could do if you hired a car and driver!

[easyas]

It's true that SAPA is only good for a few days or so, but the mountain scenery is beautiful, especially when it's misty. We went on one of the day walks with a Hill Tribe guide (in places steep downhill walk, car back up to the town) to some of the villages & that's interesting, you do get hassled a bit to buy stuff - keep a smile & it's fine. Otherwise you can hire a driver to go further into the mountains or as said a 2/3 day trekking trip.

Just a very personnel observation, I think Hue is overrated, unless you like visiting yet another temple or ruins. Hoi An is good and you can bicycle for about 30 minutes (usually provided free of charge by the guest house) from the town to the great clean beaches and sea There is also a day bicycle tour in Hoi An run by a French guy with Vietnamese guides that takes you to some of the local villages where they have brick works, by hand boat building etc Good restaurants to try at night with all the street lights making it attractive, many old traditional building as one of the towns not destroyed by bombing/combat during the war.

Fully agree with you about Hue and Hoi An. The only thing about Hue that sets it apart from Hoi An is that there are in Hue very good shops selling good quality paintings, whereas similar shops in Hoi An only have diabolical daubs aimed at the non-discerning tourist!

[craigt3365]

Wow...another great post! If I remember correctly, there's a train that goes along that coast from Hoi An to Hue? I remember taking one and the scenery was quite nice. Right along the coast.

Not sure about that. I don't remember whether Hoi An is on the rail network. The rail link to Hue would probably be from Danang. And I doubt whether the scenic route still exists - the route would probably now be through the tunnel? In any event, as said before trains are dirty and very, very slow AND you can't get off to take in the views, chug down a tinny or two and hop back on again at will as you could do if you hired a car and driver!

I can't remember where the train trip was. Somewhere around Hue and Hoi An as those were the only 2 places I visited in that area. It was a very scenic trip and right on the coast. Maybe the new tunnel changed this?

As for Hue, I did not like the town, but enjoyed the trip up the river to see the temples. Great fun.

[Ticketmaster]

When I travel, I like "getting down with the locals," which is why I travel by trains and buses. I think I learned my lesson after my first trip to Thailand. On that first trip, I did the typical three city deal: Bangkok, Phuket & Chiangmai. I flew between them. Until I came back here s a member of the Peace Corps, I had no idea that I did not see "Thailand" at all. I missed 99% of it. So if you like to get down and dirty, try the hard seat, no aircon train in Vietnam It will be crammed with locals, eating and stinking and trying to talk to you. If that's not your cup of tea, take a plane. It is really a lifestyle choice and only that.

And Craig, I took that coastal train. I think it was either going north towards Danang, or going north out of Danang, really can't remember, but, yes, it just hugs the coast and is very scenic, with a lot of fresh air

One thing I thought interesting about the country, being American, is the way they take the war in stride. The US dumped more bombs on their country that it dumped in all of WWII, to say nothing of poisonous defoliants and other nasty stuff, then it stabbed it's allies in the back and left them high and dry. Nonetheless, the Vietnamese just shrug and say, "It happened, it's over, we really don't give a shit about it one way or the other." One would expect some bitterness, but I never detected any.

The thing I liked best about Vietnam was the food. I ate my way through the country, constantly stuffed. I liked the street vendors and markets the best, as well as the many sandwich stalls, where you will find that the French baguette slathered with pate' is now a "traditional" Vietnamese food. Tasty, if you like liver.

[roamer]

Spent 3 weeks travelling through Vietnam and can't recall ever encountering touts, that was the early 90's so guess it had to change . Still dream about Dalat and wonder if the very pretty girls still cycle around wearing French colonial style clothes and straw boaters, guess that has changed too

[craigt3365]

Spent 3 weeks travelling through Vietnam and can't recall ever encountering touts, that was the early 90's so guess it had to change . Still dream about Dalat and wonder if the very pretty girls still cycle around wearing French colonial style clothes and straw boaters, guess that has changed too

I liked Dalat also. Very beautiful place with fantastic fresh veggies. I saw lots of pretty girls cycling around wearing that traditional dress with straw conical hats. A great sight to see...but that was 10 years ago. Things might have changed also. Too bad.

[canman]

I have not traveled by train in Vietnam, I remeber suggesting to my Vietnamese wife once that we take a train trip from Saigon to I think it was Da Nang. Her reply was along the lines of 'I would rather walk'.

I have not been to the north of Vietnam but can certainly vouch for the south. Saigon, Vungtau, Dalat, Nha Trang are all worth a visit. If you do go to Da Nang - Hoi An make sure you visit 'Marble Mountain' which is roughly mid way between the two. There is a whole village there devoted to marble statue carving and the trail up to and through the mountain caves is well worth it.

As previous posters have mentioned scams and rip offs abound in the tourist areas. I have been going to Vietnam since the early 90's and a lot has changed. The days of girls with ram rod straight perfect posture backs, riding a push bike while wearing an impossibly white, long flowing Ao Dai have passed and been surplanted by millions of motor bikes and face masks.

I have friends who still live in the south by choice and claim to love it there although there is not one who has not had his home broken into more then once. Every time I go back I enjoy the place less and less, the infrastructure which was inadequate 20 years ago is getting worse all the time under the pressure of a growing middle class. The taxi trip from the airport to the center of Saigon used to be about 15 minutes, it can be as long as 40 minutes now depending on the time of day.

There are some wonderful places to see and some great people but you will need to keep your wits about you as the Vietnamese make the Thais look like amateurs when it comes to parting you from your money.

Edited May 8, 2013 by canman

[easyas]

I have not traveled by train in Vietnam, I remeber suggesting to my Vietnamese wife once that we take a train trip from Saigon to I think it was Da Nang. Her reply was along the lines of 'I would rather walk'.

I have not been to the north of Vietnam but can certainly vouch for the south. Saigon, Vungtau, Dalat, Nha Trang are all worth a visit. If you do go to Da Nang - Hoi An make sure you visit 'Marble Mountain' which is roughly mid way between the two. There is a whole village there devoted to marble statue carving and the trail up to and through the mountain caves is well worth it.

As previous posters have mentioned scams and rip offs abound in the tourist areas. I have been going to Vietnam since the early 90's and a lot has changed. The days of girls with ram rod straight perfect posture backs, riding a push bike while wearing an impossibly white, long flowing Ao Dai have passed and been surplanted by millions of motor bikes and face masks.

I have friends who still live in the south by choice and claim to love it there although there is not one who has not had his home broken into more then once. Every time I go back I enjoy the place less and less, the infrastructure which was inadequate 20 years ago is getting worse all the time under the pressure of a growing middle class. The taxi trip from the airport to the center of Saigon used to be about 15 minutes, it can be as long as 40 minutes now depending on the time of day.

There are some wonderful places to see and some great people but you will need to keep your wits about you as the Vietnamese make the Thais look like amateurs when it comes to parting you from your money.

Totally disagree with you when you compare Vietnamese to Thai honesty - I go regularly and while I am perhaps a little more careful in the South there is no question that the Vietnamese you meet particularly in the North are honest (much more so than Thais!)

[irishken]

I suggest you watch this video,hope its ok to post the link

Vietnam by Train (1): Hanoi - Huè

This guy has a train related channel on youtube and knows his stuff. I love watching his video's. Hope this helps

Edited May 8, 2013 by irishken

[megaworldasia]

Did a 8 day trip through Vietnam in January. Did some research on-line through wiki travel and got some good info re what the correct prices were for airport taxis etc. Because it was a short trip I had a pre-determined plan for the entirety and I booked my hotels on-line with Agoda before flying out from BKK. Flew with Thai to Hanoi. The airport Taxi into the Cathedral quarter as 350,000 Dong and the prices were displayed by all the taxi operators just outside the arrivals hall. I had 3 nights at the Hanoi Hibiscus hotel @ USD 16 per night. As mentioned I'd booked and paid on-line already. The hotel was more of a small, boutique type place but the rooms were clean and the hot water supply for the showers was very good. Within an hour of being there the hotel staff helped me get a local sim card, at the normal advertised rates, at a shop just down the laneway. January in Hanoi is bloody freezing compared to BKK. It was only 11 - 12 deg C during the day. I bought a Nth Face Gortex Jacket, with hood and inner liner, for USD 80. And no it wasn't a copy because North face, in this part of the world at least, have their factory in Vietnam. The food was good and inexpensive and I pretty much lived on noodle soup and baguettes. There was a baguette stand at the end of the laneway; baguettes with scrambled egg filling were a tad over USD. If that's being scammed, they're welcome to it.

There's a lake in the middle of Hanoi which a lot of the locals congregate to in the afternoon for exercise. At one end there's a great bar that juts out over the water and provides a nice setting for a couple of beers in the evening. Granted it was cold but it was nice spot for a quiet ale or two. Highland's coffee has a really good café/restaurant, on the 4th floor of a building nearby, for reasonably priced food and a good quality expresso/latte/cappuccino. The motorbike menace, in Vietnam, cannot be overstated; it's a blitzkrieg on the roads. You take your life into your own hands crossing the streets and the Vietnamese do not stop for anything. They'll weave and career around you rather than stop. Horn tooting is taken to extremes in Vietnam; the Thai is polite in comparison.

After 3 nights in Hanoi I departed for Dong Hoi and my main reason for being in Vietnam; the caves of Phong Nha Ke Bang National Park. Dong Hoi is 450 kilometers south of Hanoi. I flew with Vietnam Airlines; the ticket was USD 75. Dong Hoi is a fairly out of the way place in terms of tourism; I didn't see any farangs while there. I stayed at the Saigon Quang Binh Hotel in Dong Hoi; approximately a 20 minute ride from the airport and 130,000 Dong. The hotel rates are expensive; USD 60 per night for a room with a view over the river. For anyone considering going to see the caves the better option is to go up to the township of Phong Nha; approx 37 kilometers from the airport. It sits at the entry point to the national park and there are some cheaper hotels there. I hired a taxi and a driver for a day trip (8 hrs) up to paradise Cave. At USD 80, and arranged by the hotel staff, it was way overpriced. The trip to Paradise cave is absolutely brilliant. Roughly 70 kilometers from Dong Hoi, the sealed road winds up ravine encroached by limestone jungle topped peaks. The fee to enter the cave site is 120,000 dong then it's a 1 kilometer walk on a paved track to the base of the stairway. There's 525 steps up the cliff face to the cave entrance and a further 275 down into the cave floor. I've done quite a few caves in Thailand and Laos but Paradise Cave is the most spectacular, in terms of formations, I've been into. The locals have done a really good job of putting a boarded walkway in place for a kilometer into the cave and there's plenty of lighting in place for those with a camera not to need a flash.

After 3 days in Dong Hoi I flew down to Saigon, Once again with Vietnam Airlines; ticket price was USD 80. After the caves in Phong Nha, Saigon was a bit of a disappointment to be honest. I stayed at the La Jolie Hotel; USD 60 per night. Saigon's motorbike menace is worse than Hanoi. The Finexco tower has an overpriced buffet and expensive drinks. The rooftop bar at the caravelle hotel is a good spot for a couple of beers in the evening as well. Went out to Backpacker central and watched the circus at a bar area where most of the young, partying crowd gather in Saigon; same crowd that you can see down at Khao Sarn Road I guess. Next time I hit Saigon I'll go straight to Vung Tau and hang out at the Beach.

[ovenman]

Wow...another great post! If I remember correctly, there's a train that goes along that coast from Hoi An to Hue? I remember taking one and the scenery was quite nice. Right along the coast.

Not sure about that. I don't remember whether Hoi An is on the rail network. The rail link to Hue would probably be from Danang. And I doubt whether the scenic route still exists - the route would probably now be through the tunnel? In any event, as said before trains are dirty and very, very slow AND you can't get off to take in the views, chug down a tinny or two and hop back on again at will as you could do if you hired a car and driver!

Hội An is not on the train line. Closest railway station is Đà Nẵng.

The train still takes the scenic route from Huế to Đà Nẵng. It does not use the The Hải Vân Pass tunnel.

Edited May 8, 2013 by ovenman

[watcharacters]

This thread has been a pleasure for me to read. There isn't a single ankle biting remark or any negativity at all. It's been a "just the facts mam" kind of thread.

I still have to ask if anyone has any recent information about:

"I've read there are "private cars" available but can't find much information on them. Any recent experiences?

Anybody tried this train option or heard anything about it? A double click should enlarge it.

I came to the realization I don't need to try to see all the country at one time. I live near it and can return without a problem. The first step is always the hardest. I have all the time left in my life and no reason to hurry. I'll start in the north and go south to Hue on the train and return to hanoi. I'll get a 30 day visa for now and spend that time there.

Next time I'll hit the south.

Thanks again to all the contributors for the great input.

[simple1]

This thread has been a pleasure for me to read. There isn't a single ankle biting remark or any negativity at all. It's been a "just the facts mam" kind of thread.

I still have to ask if anyone has any recent information about:

"I've read there are "private cars" available but can't find much information on them. Any recent experiences?

Anybody tried this train option or heard anything about it? A double click should enlarge it.

Screen Shot 2013-05-13 at 5.50.14 PM.png

I came to the realization I don't need to try to see all the country at one time. I live near it and can return without a problem. The first step is always the hardest. I have all the time left in my life and no reason to hurry. I'll start in the north and go south to Hue on the train and return to hanoi. I'll get a 30 day visa for now and spend that time there.

Next time I'll hit the south.

Thanks again to all the contributors for the great input.

This URL will provide the info you require: http://www.seat61.com/Vietnam.htm#.UZGNPEqOCSo

[canman]

I have not traveled by train in Vietnam, I remeber suggesting to my Vietnamese wife once that we take a train trip from Saigon to I think it was Da Nang. Her reply was along the lines of 'I would rather walk'.

I have not been to the north of Vietnam but can certainly vouch for the south. Saigon, Vungtau, Dalat, Nha Trang are all worth a visit. If you do go to Da Nang - Hoi An make sure you visit 'Marble Mountain' which is roughly mid way between the two. There is a whole village there devoted to marble statue carving and the trail up to and through the mountain caves is well worth it.

As previous posters have mentioned scams and rip offs abound in the tourist areas. I have been going to Vietnam since the early 90's and a lot has changed. The days of girls with ram rod straight perfect posture backs, riding a push bike while wearing an impossibly white, long flowing Ao Dai have passed and been surplanted by millions of motor bikes and face masks.

I have friends who still live in the south by choice and claim to love it there although there is not one who has not had his home broken into more then once. Every time I go back I enjoy the place less and less, the infrastructure which was inadequate 20 years ago is getting worse all the time under the pressure of a growing middle class. The taxi trip from the airport to the center of Saigon used to be about 15 minutes, it can be as long as 40 minutes now depending on the time of day.

There are some wonderful places to see and some great people but you will need to keep your wits about you as the Vietnamese make the Thais look like amateurs when it comes to parting you from your money.

Totally disagree with you when you compare Vietnamese to Thai honesty - I go regularly and while I am perhaps a little more careful in the South there is no question that the Vietnamese you meet particularly in the North are honest (much more so than Thais!)

I was specifically refering to the the big cities and the tourist centers. I have had occasion to do business with many Viet from the north, never met an honest one. They all have an angle and you will not be able to actually do business with them unless some off the books money is funnelled their way. I am talking high dollar O&G contracts here.