Phuket Foreigners. Who Needs Them?

[cup-O-coffee]

I went on a reef clean up today. More than 100 Thais and from the 14 Dive centers in Ao Nang owned by foreigners there was zero participation as usual.

My friend, a tourist on holiday for 3 weeks, and me where the only farangs who participated in this clean up session.

Did you have a work permit to do this work?

If not, you and your tourist friend were breaking the law, liable to arrest a deportation, just as bad as the arrested Russians.

I'm guessing no other foreigners participated because they obey Thai law.

How very naive. There are no words to explain. It would be an utter waste of time.

[Kularion]

If you go on holiday and want to speak your language, eat the same food your mother cooked, have the same standards as your house hold what the f... you call a holiday?

Under this logic, then no one would travel to countries other than those which speak their home language. Why shouldn't a Russian, Brazilian, Saudi, Italian, etc. not want to come on a holiday to the beaches of Phuket if they don't speak Thai or one of the languages that can be readily found in the Thai tourist industry?

Like it or not, if an area relies on tourism, and if they want to keep their customers happy, then they need people who speak their language. If Russians are coming, then there needs to be Russian-speaking guides to assist them. If Thais dont speak Russian, in this case, then they need to bring in Russian speakers to service those tourists.

I look to the tourist places in Europe and the USA where you can get guides who speak most of the languages that incoming tourists speak as an example.

These imported guides should apply for their work permit, of course, and be legal and above ground.

Agree 100% !!!

[expat888]

Many in TV complain about Thai bashers. "If you don't like it, then go home". Typical response from Thais and foreigners that think they are the same as Thais and are in denial. At this point in Thai culture, Thai won't accept you into their culture. Thailand claims they want more tourist but they seem to hate them once they are here.

IMO sour attitudes from foreigners didn't start out that way. It was a result of scams and poor treatment from Thais. Many of foreigners, including myself, came here with high expectations and were very enthusiastic only to be disappointed over time. We have settled on something less than we hoped for but none the less created a niche for ourselves to exist mainly away from Thais.

IF Thais weren't so negative (some outright hostile) then their existence with foreigners would a lot less a problem for all sides. Then you would see a lot less soured foreigners.

[expat888]

"I would argue that at least these foreigners are working. They are not a drain on the - albeit woefully weak - Thai welfare system."

Could someone help me understand this one? The Thai welfare system is available to foreigners?

This sounds like they are comparing Thailand to a western country that gives welfare to anyone that enters the country. Are they BSing a potential outside reader into thinking this system exist for foreigners?

[atlbravosfan]

"They are working because there are opportunities to do so, opportunities provided from a general capacity for foreign nationals to have greater social mobility. This is the world as it stands in 2013. Why they are working is an easy question to answer, why Thailand makes it so difficult for foreign workers to work legally is another."

Thailand makes it very easy for foreign nationals to legally work - much easier than other countries make for Thai nationals to do the same. If people want to work without visa/work permit here then, perhaps they should contact their own governments at home and tell them to introduce laws that allow Thai nationals to get an easy visa and work as they wish in that country

While I'm at it, perhaps I'll recommend my government make laws that says the price of admission to any museum / national park / national landmark be the same price for all nationalities except the Thais. They get to pay the special 'Thai price' to get into anything in my country, same way I have to pay the 'farang price,' which does not actually mean 'non-Thai.' It just means 'non-East Asian' and is a completely racist term and mindset.

[hansnl]

Sounds to me like an article written by someone who wants to get a job in a restricted occupation, or the owner of the club referred to moaning...3 paragraphs about topless dancers and a threat that the arrested ones will be replaced by others by the weekend. "Russian" entertainers, absolutely vital to the Thai economy.

Regarding the reception the grandparents of the Chinese-Thais received here generations ago, that's irrelevant to todays Thailand.

And the reference to working foreigners not being a drain on the Thai welfare system is nonsense, How are foreigners ever going to be a drain on Thai welfare resources, working or not?

Surely if foreigners choose to go to a country for a holiday where they know that they don't speak the local, or the international language, and that the locals don't speak their language, then their decision to visit that country should bear that disadvantage in mind? They should not expect to be able to import their 'mates' to look after them illegally.

That is exactly the same thought in Indonesia, Phillipines, and other countries.

Until the locals started to protest in the most heavyhanded ways possible,

[Headgame]

"They are working because there are opportunities to do so, opportunities provided from a general capacity for foreign nationals to have greater social mobility. This is the world as it stands in 2013. Why they are working is an easy question to answer, why Thailand makes it so difficult for foreign workers to work legally is another."

Thailand makes it very easy for foreign nationals to legally work - much easier than other countries make for Thai nationals to do the same. If people want to work without visa/work permit here then, perhaps they should contact their own governments at home and tell them to introduce laws that allow Thai nationals to get an easy visa and work was they wish in that country

While I'm at it, perhaps I'll recommend my government make laws that says the price of admission to any museum / national park / national landmark be the same price for all nationalities except the Thais. They get to pay the special 'Thai price' to get into anything in my country, same way I have to pay the 'farang price,' which does not actually mean 'non-Thai.' It just means 'non-East Asian' and is a completely racist term and mindset.

Again, someone who doesn't get out and about very much. Lower Thai admission price hardly unusual. If you go to Disney World in CA, you pay a discounted admission price by simply producing your DL to prove you live in Orange County.

Same, same. Hardly uncommon all over the world - residents often pay less than tourists.

[atlbravosfan]

"They are working because there are opportunities to do so, opportunities provided from a general capacity for foreign nationals to have greater social mobility. This is the world as it stands in 2013. Why they are working is an easy question to answer, why Thailand makes it so difficult for foreign workers to work legally is another."

Thailand makes it very easy for foreign nationals to legally work - much easier than other countries make for Thai nationals to do the same. If people want to work without visa/work permit here then, perhaps they should contact their own governments at home and tell them to introduce laws that allow Thai nationals to get an easy visa and work was they wish in that country

While I'm at it, perhaps I'll recommend my government make laws that says the price of admission to any museum / national park / national landmark be the same price for all nationalities except the Thais. They get to pay the special 'Thai price' to get into anything in my country, same way I have to pay the 'farang price,' which does not actually mean 'non-Thai.' It just means 'non-East Asian' and is a completely racist term and mindset.

Again, someone who doesn't get out and about very much. Lower Thai admission price hardly unusual. If you go to Disney World in CA, you pay a discounted admission price by simply producing your DL to prove you live in Orange County.

Same, same. Hardly uncommon all over the world - residents often pay less than tourists.

Disney World is not a government operated site. National parks are operated by the government in Thailand. The Royal Palace and all official royal buildings are operated by the Thai government. The Thai government is the one that decided people who look to be of East Asian decent pay a cheaper price than all other people.

When you went to Disney World, were they giving discounts only to White people? Only to black people? Oh, that would be racist you say?

When any person of any nationality goes to the Smithsonian Institute in DC, how much do they pay? Oh, you say it is free just the same as it is for Americans? Well, perhaps that is a place I would start a special 'Thai price.' I could care less what a privately owned business, like Disney, does to its ticket prices...

[Kularion]

If you go on holiday and want to speak your language, eat the same food your mother cooked, have the same standards as your house hold what the f... you call a holiday?

Under this logic, then no one would travel to countries other than those which speak their home language. Why shouldn't a Russian, Brazilian, Saudi, Italian, etc. not want to come on a holiday to the beaches of Phuket if they don't speak Thai or one of the languages that can be readily found in the Thai tourist industry?

Like it or not, if an area relies on tourism, and if they want to keep their customers happy, then they need people who speak their language. If Russians are coming, then there needs to be Russian-speaking guides to assist them. If Thais dont speak Russian, in this case, then they need to bring in Russian speakers to service those tourists.

I look to the tourist places in Europe and the USA where you can get guides who speak most of the languages that incoming tourists speak as an example.

These imported guides should apply for their work permit, of course, and be legal and above ground.

Really? You can't be serious or have traveled very extensively. The only language of international travel is English. Russian speaking tour guides readily available in the US? LOL.

If you travel, you learn English.

Have been working over 6 years in hospitality industry in Birmingham, UK and well... now I think that Radisson Hotel management should get some lessons from you as they were always trying to put on the reception people who can speak not only English but for example Spanish, French or Russian... if have to be foreigner that was ok with them... btw go to South America and try to convince them that language of international travel in English... of course places which are focused on foreign tourists got people who can speak English but most Argentinian for example think that Spanish is second language on the world (don't counting Chinese) and people should speak Spanish... just as native English speakers thinks that people should speak at least little English

[hawker9000]

'Was amused at "Jody" reminding us that "at least these foreigners are working" [and not a drain on Thai welfare]. "Jody" needs to learn to listen more carefully and think things through a little further. The argument about them is that they're taking Thai jobs. (Psssst, Jody, THAT'S why Thailand makes it so difficult... And Thailand is hardly alone in doing so. You should read up a bit before writing articles.)

I don't have a dog in this fight. I enjoy visits to Thailand, but can take it or leave it (and with respect to Phuket specifically, I can definitely leave it...) But I do think that, like Jody, many Thais haven't thought things through. They (those that choose to make rhetorical hay out of excoriating foreigners, which is by no means all) are fortunate in not having to walk the walk, and experience for themselves just how well the Thai economy would fare without the tourist spending. I'm not suggesting the country would collapse, but employment prospects would sure deteriorate for some... Whereas, the tourists DO have other choices.

So, there are some Thais who regard & treat foreigners unfavorably & in some cases unfairly, and there are some foreigners who deserve to be regarded and treated that way. Plenty of room for both to clean up their acts. Unlikely that either will any time soon. I don't see much value added in the OP.

[anon467367354]

"They are working because there are opportunities to do so, opportunities provided from a general capacity for foreign nationals to have greater social mobility. This is the world as it stands in 2013. Why they are working is an easy question to answer, why Thailand makes it so difficult for foreign workers to work legally is another."

Thailand makes it very easy for foreign nationals to legally work - much easier than other countries make for Thai nationals to do the same. If people want to work without visa/work permit here then, perhaps they should contact their own governments at home and tell them to introduce laws that allow Thai nationals to get an easy visa and work was they wish in that country

While I'm at it, perhaps I'll recommend my government make laws that says the price of admission to any museum / national park / national landmark be the same price for all nationalities except the Thais. They get to pay the special 'Thai price' to get into anything in my country, same way I have to pay the 'farang price,' which does not actually mean 'non-Thai.' It just means 'non-East Asian' and is a completely racist term and mindset.

Again, someone who doesn't get out and about very much. Lower Thai admission price hardly unusual. If you go to Disney World in CA, you pay a discounted admission price by simply producing your DL to prove you live in Orange County.

Same, same. Hardly uncommon all over the world - residents often pay less than tourists.

are you saying that if I go to a Thai national park and show my Thai driver's license, my work permit, my marriage certificate, my Thai children I'm going to pay the Thai price? you're dreaming. Now Nonthaburi residents with an ED visa have to get fingerprinted in Bangkok every 90 days in addition to verifying your address. So much for being a local.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Post containing ALL CAPS has been removed.

Please do not use ALL CAPS for your posts.

[HUAHIN62]

No problem if you want to work here get a work permit. The same applies to me if I want to go and work in the US, Russia or Europe. Why should rules apply in other countries and not in Thailand.

[Mangkhut]

_{Nobody needs russian h***ers and chinese Nationals as guides - neither in Phuket or otker places i Thailand. What totally utter nonsence of the threadstarter.....}

[tfbpa]

How the recent arrival perceives how they are treated, and the spades of

ire and indignation they may feel, probably says as much about how they

viewed and treated foreigners in their homeland as how they are

actually treated in their new adopted home.

This is the most important sentence of them all, as I think that most foreigners living here somehow don't understand or don't want to know that they are the un-wanted people in the country. This is life, normal and natural, every nation prefers their own people over foreigners, just think how most people (and if you complain about being treated unfairly in Thailand, almost certainly means you as well) in your home country feel about immigrants from for example Eastern Europe, Mediterranean, Asian, etc. etc.

We ARE the EXACT same as the un-wanted immigrants from your home country.

Just accept this and don't feel superior (which 99% of the foreigners living here feel) and you will enjoy your life in Thailand.

Accept it.

[annatamila]

Nice article but unfortunately only for farangs )

[Pops]

Quote: "I would argue that at least these foreigners are working. They are not a drain on the - albeit woefully weak - Thai welfare system."

And the beauty is, foreigners CAN work in Thailand.

Only when they have a valid work permit, a certain salary and restricted to certain professions and not for instance as tour guides.

What's the fricking problem ?

In our home countries, hordes of our country-men complain about the huge influx of immigrants, because that is what we call ex-pats back home, and the lack of rules and regulations surrounding these immigrants and here we complain about the rules being too tough on immigrants, sorry I mean ex-pats.

It is so simple, just stick to the laws of this country and have your visas/permits in order, and you can work.

And for those of us that wanna work as tour guides, sorry, not in Thailand.

Clear !!!

[Farangdam]

for thais farang mean people from europe, american, australian, russian etc not from neigbour country such cambodia, laos, nyanmar, but in some sector was powered by this neigbourhood country expatriate legally or illegally. question ? who is your hotel housekeeping maid.......

[Amras]

"They are working because there are opportunities to do so, opportunities provided from a general capacity for foreign nationals to have greater social mobility. This is the world as it stands in 2013. Why they are working is an easy question to answer, why Thailand makes it so difficult for foreign workers to work legally is another."

Thailand makes it very easy for foreign nationals to legally work - much easier than other countries make for Thai nationals to do the same. If people want to work without visa/work permit here then, perhaps they should contact their own governments at home and tell them to introduce laws that allow Thai nationals to get an easy visa and work as they wish in that country

There's a reason 'Thais' find it hard to work elsewhere, because of the 'class' of country they are coming from. IF 3rd/developing countries were allowed easier access to 1st world countries, there would be a huge influx of low skilled labour into these markets. Conversely, it's reasonably easy (in most respects) for 'westerners' to go between western countries and get a working visa. Similarly I would expect that Singapore and Japan fall into the same category.

The issue is surrounding the work permit, place of work, only that job, you lose that job you have 7 days to get out. Other working visa's, don't work like this. It achieves nothing except to make working in Thailand (and bringing skills here) difficult, because they don't really want you to work here, but can't be seen to have a ban on it.

They are needed on Bangla Road, as there are a certain section of foreigners who desire to see their performances. It’s a simple case of foreign supply and demand.

So you would support this justification for drug dealers too ???

If something is illegal its illegal, just because people want it, doesnt change the law or should change its enforcement.

Don't see them arresting all the Thai girls working at the Gogo bars there did we.....oh but that's not illegal ey. Selective enforcement of the law based on what will get them the best publicity with the locals.

Foreign restrictions are only in place because (i am exaggerating here), Thais are useless and a comparison of a Thai and a Foreigner will see some distinct issues.

Thais know that they are superior (in Thailand), because the laws and situations always favor them. SO they can work half-assed and with as much respect for a tourist as they feel is needed.

A foreigner knows about life outside of their own country and knows about tourism and the importance of the "customer is always right" philosophy

A Thai has a mindset of "it will be ok", so when you order a pepsi, getting a coke will do, because its "close enough"

A foreigner will tell you there is no coke and will suggest an alternative

Then there is the Thai genders... Females can adapt (some don't and are amazing rude), where males having been raised as superiors, find that at maturity, they are failures and end up as some form of a taxi driver. Then their egos jump in and as failures, all they can do is protest about "its not fair"....

Im sure some long timers here can add a million other things...

However, its not just Thailand

Now.. back in Oz... kids are growing up with useless parents and are now feeling superior because its the Govt, that has stepped in, removed many parental rights and giving kids the right of appeal... No more sending little johnny to his room or end up with a knock on the door from child welfare.... So now the respect is gone and on maturity, these kids show the same disregard to jobs and other people.....

--- end of exaggeration ---

If Thais learn more about other cultures, learn how to interact with foreigners and learn how to deal with tourist situations, then I am sure, there will be more of them working in the Tourist industry... but this will only happen if you wipe out the Thai nonsense that they grow up with

I agree about the kids in Australia. Even from my generation (80's) to the 90's kids, they are all f*****. All growing up with some perception that they are owed something, yet many of them are learning that once they get into real life (ie after school), they end up in dead end jobs for shit pay.

I (and even the Thai gf) get tired when Thai's (waiter/waitress etc) don't listen to what you order. If it's wrong she sends it back until they get it right. She said "Thai people need to learn to listen for once and that it's not ok to just give you what they want'.

I do agree on the general gender stuff, it is quite interesting to observe..

[Amras]

Quote: "I would argue that at least these foreigners are working. They are not a drain on the - albeit woefully weak - Thai welfare system."

And the beauty is, foreigners CAN work in Thailand.

Only when they have a valid work permit, a certain salary and restricted to certain professions and not for instance as tour guides.

What's the fricking problem ?

In our home countries, hordes of our country-men complain about the huge influx of immigrants, because that is what we call ex-pats back home, and the lack of rules and regulations surrounding these immigrants and here we complain about the rules being too tough on immigrants, sorry I mean ex-pats.

It is so simple, just stick to the laws of this country and have your visas/permits in order, and you can work.

And for those of us that wanna work as tour guides, sorry, not in Thailand.

Clear !!!

What country. I'm (and many people I know) are actually tolerant and accepting of people who immigrate (and offer value to the country in which the immigrate too). People can complain about them, but what it comes down to is that, when the immigrants get jobs its because either , 1. they can do it better, 2.work harder or longer hours or 3. work cheaper. Thais can accept the 3rd reason (for use of burmese etc), but can't accept 1 or 2 in the case of (often) foreigners in management positions etc (or even any technical position).

The problem is, if a Thai goes to say Australia on a working visa, they can work at any company, for any duration as long as their visa remains valid, no restrictions. That's not the case here. It is much harder and the paperwork alone discourages businesses from employing foreigners (which I would easily believe it is designed to do).

I doubt many foreigners want to take a waiter/waitress job, general low salary positions anyway. Buisinesses would still have the choice to hire a Thai over a foreigner, except those that value the experience, education etc COULD more easily higher an expat which may help grow their business and thus employ more Thais and on and on.

They government acts as if all of a sudden if foreigners were allowed to more easily work, all the Thais would lose their jobs. I can't see it happening. No foreigner is going to work for 15-20k baht a month, why would they. And if they set up their own business ie tour guide, I don't disagree with the need for the business to employ Thai staff.

They are shooting themselves in the foot and they can't see the bigger picture. In general they are so closed minded, their brains only see Thailand as Thailand and not how they need to fit into the global picture.

The fact is, they make it as hard as possible to legally work here for many and they lose out on taxes, potential companies employing Thai staff, rent associated with office space etc etc.

[Colabamumbai]

Good then let Thai teachers teach the next generation of Thai leaders English.....

[OldChinaHam]

"People now flock to all corners of the world to live and work. There is no going back now."

Yes there is.

This is already happening in all corners of the world.

Some of us have just not noticed it.

All major governments are preparing for increased numbers of foreigners to begin pushing at borders around the world, foreigners trying to get in to places which have more abundant resources and more democracy and better standards of living.

Foreigners will be kept out in increasing numbers.

This circumstance will not matter to those who have significant financial resources, such as those who live in gated communities.

They will go and do whatever they choose.

As for me, I am not worried either.

I'll just search around for some really marginal land,

And just squat awhile.

I'll send you postcards when I get there, 'wishing you were here'.

[Just1Voice]

I look at this a couple of ways.

1 - If you're Thai, and you want to be a tour guide - LEARN the language of the target group you want to work for. If you don't know the language, then you don't have any right to complain that you didn't get the job. And when I say "learn", that means proficient,

2 - If you're non-Tha, and working as a tour guide - GET the proper work permits. Yes, it can be a pain in the backside, but it avoids a lot of crap later on.

One of the main problems I see in regards to Thai is that they believe that if they can speak more than 50 words in "Thaiglish", they think they are proficient in the language.

Best example I can give of this is when, about 2 yrs ago, I signed up for Thai language at the YMCA here in CMX. They said that the normal class was full, but since I was the 6th person to register after that, and with the others all being older as well, they were going to let us attend a class in the afternoons, with one of their "best teachers". Great! Small class, everyone 50+ in age, "best" teachers. Wow!

To make it short, at least 4-5 times a day, in a 1 hour class, we would all look at each other and whisper: "What the hell did she say?" To be blunt, the woman had absolutely NO business teaching Thai to a group of Native English Speakers, when she could barely speak English herself. And she was supposed to be one of their "best"? Needless to say, I never went back for Level 2.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Just1Voice

[Arkady]

Female Russian entertainers are definitely not needed. Deport and black list them and their Russian mafia pimps forthwith please.

As for the reception received by the ancestors of those Chinese speaking Thai guides. Well, they probably had a pretty rough time in many ways but then as now Thailand needed foreign labour to do the dirty jobs Thais didn't want and they were the solution. There weren't any work permits then and, if you could convince the Immigration officer at the port you had a trade that was needed in Thailand, you got a resident book and an alien certificate that remained valid as long as you didn't leave Thailand for one than a year, in which case it was cancelled. It was hard for these Chinese immigrants to get Thai nationality and very few of them did but until 1971 their children born in Thailand were automatically Thai and that is the way that nearly all the ancestors of today's Thai Chinese became Thai.

Anyway it doesn't matter much today. Thailand slammed the door on Chinese immigration in the early 50s, fearing a c ommunist 5th column would be infiltrated in from Red China. What today's Thai Chinese remember is not the reception their ancestors received but that the door was slammed shut on other Chinese and they want to keep it that way.

[oldsailor35]

I went on a reef clean up today. More than 100 Thais and from the 14 Dive centers in Ao Nang owned by foreigners there was zero participation as usual.

My friend, a tourist on holiday for 3 weeks, and me where the only farangs who participated in this clean up session.

If you do not want to immigrate in a country, complain whole day about the lack of experience, how lazy the Thais are etc etc can you expect the Thais will treat you will all the respect and regards because you bring in

a pension or take their jobs illegally?

If you go on holiday and want to speak your language, eat the same food your mother cooked, have the same standards as your house hold what the f... you call a holiday?

Before you immigrate in another country you can find lots and lots of information about the country, the rules, the scams etc etc.

If you stupid enough to think you are better than the Thais and want to live here and/ or work illegal well for me the Thais are much more educated than you.

In the last 2 weeks I've met 2 persons loosing the land and houses they build all in name of a Thai girl friend. Both men are warned several times by many people

to not put all in girls name. But they did not want to listing. Now complaints and bashing the Thais.

Inform yourself before you move to another country, get known with their rules and regulations. If they suit you life by it.

Stop complaining and bashing if you just followed your d... who had a good time during your holiday and give you the feeling you can live and/or work in another country.

Possibly they were scared of losing their work permits for doing something outside their jobs. I do not think cleaning the environment is mentioned on their work permits.

A couple of years ago i joined with a volunteer group cleaning up a certain beach front area on Koh Samui. People attended from many tourist based businesses, all foriegners, picking up plastic and other junk. I saw no Thai volunteers. However there are beach front areas where Thais live in filthy stinking shacks leaving rubbish everywhere. They live in it but never see it. Take the Big Buddha/Bangrak waterfront area for instance. It is a disgustingly filthy garbage dump.

Edited May 5, 2013 by oldsailor35

[BrianCR]

I look at this a couple of ways.

1 - If you're Thai, and you want to be a tour guide - LEARN the language of the target group you want to work for. If you don't know the language, then you don't have any right to complain that you didn't get the job. And when I say "learn", that means proficient,

2 - If you're non-Tha, and working as a tour guide - GET the proper work permits. Yes, it can be a pain in the backside, but it avoids a lot of crap later on.

One of the main problems I see in regards to Thai is that they believe that if they can speak more than 50 words in "Thaiglish", they think they are proficient in the language.

Best example I can give of this is when, about 2 yrs ago, I signed up for Thai language at the YMCA here in CMX. They said that the normal class was full, but since I was the 6th person to register after that, and with the others all being older as well, they were going to let us attend a class in the afternoons, with one of their "best teachers". Great! Small class, everyone 50+ in age, "best" teachers. Wow!

To make it short, at least 4-5 times a day, in a 1 hour class, we would all look at each other and whisper: "What the hell did she say?" To be blunt, the woman had absolutely NO business teaching Thai to a group of Native English Speakers, when she could barely speak English herself. And she was supposed to be one of their "best"? Needless to say, I never went back for Level 2.

As a fully qualified teacher may I point out that Thai's are taught English by westerners who can't speak Thai - I have taught in the past in International schools where the students are from many many countries all speaking a different language - the subject is ENGLISH and the medium is ENGLISH and they learn pretty well! So what is wrong with the subject Thai and the medium Thai - it's the most natural way to learn

[Arkady]

I look at this a couple of ways.

1 - If you're Thai, and you want to be a tour guide - LEARN the language of the target group you want to work for. If you don't know the language, then you don't have any right to complain that you didn't get the job. And when I say "learn", that means proficient,

2 - If you're non-Tha, and working as a tour guide - GET the proper work permits. Yes, it can be a pain in the backside, but it avoids a lot of crap later on.

One of the main problems I see in regards to Thai is that they believe that if they can speak more than 50 words in "Thaiglish", they think they are proficient in the language.

Best example I can give of this is when, about 2 yrs ago, I signed up for Thai language at the YMCA here in CMX. They said that the normal class was full, but since I was the 6th person to register after that, and with the others all being older as well, they were going to let us attend a class in the afternoons, with one of their "best teachers". Great! Small class, everyone 50+ in age, "best" teachers. Wow!

To make it short, at least 4-5 times a day, in a 1 hour class, we would all look at each other and whisper: "What the hell did she say?" To be blunt, the woman had absolutely NO business teaching Thai to a group of Native English Speakers, when she could barely speak English herself. And she was supposed to be one of their "best"? Needless to say, I never went back for Level 2.

I went with a Thai tour group to Cambodia. They had their own Thai tour leaders but they hired Thai speaking Cambodian guides to take the group around all the sites. Why can't Chinese tour groups in Thailand do the same?

Re the teachers. Nearly all the farang English teachers working in Thaiand can't speak Thai fluently but they are required to teach solely through the medium of English. To get a WP at a private school in Thailand it used to be a requirement to pass the Education Ministry's Por 6 exam in Thai for foreigners. Most of them, including the headmasters of ISB and Bkk Pattana never passed this, except through bribery, and were only ever eligible for 3 month WPs as a result. The Thais have given up this requirement as unenforceable now and there are hundreds of monoglot farangs teaching Thai kids in Thailand.

Why do you think that Thais teaching Thai to farangs for a pittance should be fluent in English, while better paid farangs teaching English to Thais don't need to be able to demonstrate they even have the ability to learn any other language, let alone speak fulent Thai? Seems a double standard. I originally learned Thai without hearing a word of English and also passed Por 6. Perhaps the problem lies more with the farang students.

[Phronesis]

Many in TV complain about Thai bashers. "If you don't like it, then go home". Typical response from Thais and foreigners that think they are the same as Thais and are in denial. At this point in Thai culture, Thai won't accept you into their culture. Thailand claims they want more tourist but they seem to hate them once they are here.

IMO sour attitudes from foreigners didn't start out that way. It was a result of scams and poor treatment from Thais. Many of foreigners, including myself, came here with high expectations and were very enthusiastic only to be disappointed over time. We have settled on something less than we hoped for but none the less created a niche for ourselves to exist mainly away from Thais.

IF Thais weren't so negative (some outright hostile) then their existence with foreigners would a lot less a problem for all sides. Then you would see a lot less soured foreigners.

Blah blah blah blah....

It's quite simple.

We are here on a user pay basis. Nothing more...Nothing less...

EVERY problem that ANY Farang bumps into while here in Thailand has this axiom at its root.

[Just1Voice]

I look at this a couple of ways.

1 - If you're Thai, and you want to be a tour guide - LEARN the language of the target group you want to work for. If you don't know the language, then you don't have any right to complain that you didn't get the job. And when I say "learn", that means proficient,

2 - If you're non-Tha, and working as a tour guide - GET the proper work permits. Yes, it can be a pain in the backside, but it avoids a lot of crap later on.

One of the main problems I see in regards to Thai is that they believe that if they can speak more than 50 words in "Thaiglish", they think they are proficient in the language.

Best example I can give of this is when, about 2 yrs ago, I signed up for Thai language at the YMCA here in CMX. They said that the normal class was full, but since I was the 6th person to register after that, and with the others all being older as well, they were going to let us attend a class in the afternoons, with one of their "best teachers". Great! Small class, everyone 50+ in age, "best" teachers. Wow!

To make it short, at least 4-5 times a day, in a 1 hour class, we would all look at each other and whisper: "What the hell did she say?" To be blunt, the woman had absolutely NO business teaching Thai to a group of Native English Speakers, when she could barely speak English herself. And she was supposed to be one of their "best"? Needless to say, I never went back for Level 2.

I went with a Thai tour group to Cambodia. They had their own Thai tour leaders but they hired Thai speaking Cambodian guides to take the group around all the sites. Why can't Chinese tour groups in Thailand do the same?

Re the teachers. Nearly all the farang English teachers working in Thaiand can't speak Thai fluently but they are required to teach solely through the medium of English. To get a WP at a private school in Thailand it used to be a requirement to pass the Education Ministry's Por 6 exam in Thai for foreigners. Most of them, including the headmasters of ISB and Bkk Pattana never passed this, except through bribery, and were only ever eligible for 3 month WPs as a result. The Thais have given up this requirement as unenforceable now and there are hundreds of monoglot farangs teaching Thai kids in Thailand.

Why do you think that Thais teaching Thai to farangs for a pittance should be fluent in English, while better paid farangs teaching English to Thais don't need to be able to demonstrate they even have the ability to learn any other language, let alone speak fulent Thai? Seems a double standard. I originally learned Thai without hearing a word of English and also passed Por 6. Perhaps the problem lies more with the farang students.

I'm not talking about pay. What I'm talking about is being fluent in the language for which you want to be a tour guide or teacher. If you are a Thai who is going to teach Thai to farang, then you should also be able to speak English as well. Very Simple.

[JetsetBkk]

How Thailand will stand in 2015, with the establishment of the open-border Asean Economic Community, remains to be seen.

It'll never happen.

Well, maybe by 2020 if you're lucky.

2015 is not the beginning of the AEC process, it is the end of the process. ASEAN has been moving towards the AEC since 2008 and they are more than 80% complete.

What I think is happening in Phuket, is foreigners from non-ASEAN countries are being moved out so ASEAN businesses can move in.

ASEAN business are already moving into Bangkok. I went to a briefing last week in Chiang Mai and a Thai official told the group of 400 Thai businessmen and women that a Vietnamese company sent its employees to study Thai for a year in Bangkok. After a year, the Vietnamese company started a business that was majority owned (70%) by the Vietnamese. They can do this because of that part of the AEC has already been fulfilled. By 2015, all of the AEC's goals will have been completed.

So you can pretend it won't happen all you want. ASEAN doesn't care what you think. They have goals and objectives they are completing. The AEC will happen in 2015.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/600044-a-e-c-launch-delayed-a-year/?hl=december+2015

21 November 2012: ASEAN leaders have decided to delay the launch of the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) for 12 months until 31 December 2015 to give more time to prepare regulations.

AEC was supposed to be introduced 1 January 2015...

And if you think that is the end of the story, you can't have been here very long.