Mum Of U K Crash Victim Joins Campaign About The Risks Of Travelling In Thailand

[masuk]

This is Thailand. Thais choose to "opt out" of many safety procedures. Their option, their country. We can choose to adopt their lifestyle, our option.

Makes no sense to educated foreigners to, for example, drive on slick tyres, but, to Thais, being generally uneducated, it's quite normal. Nothing to even think about!

And the authorities, same story, uneducated, and choose not to implement any kind of sensibility. Again, their choice, their country.

I recently purchased a new car, same cost and same model as the Aussie version.

the difference being:

a) instead of 7 air bags, the Thai one had a single air bag.

no heating - important to me for de-fogging the windscreen.

plus many other penny-pinching 'economies such as no light in the boot.

I had to change the side window tinting as I couldn't see out at night. What was fitted is illegal here, but everyone does it. No doubt saves face when you can't see the idiot who has just cut you off to be at the lights first.

It's amazing what they can get away with here.

[trainman34014]

its a requirement for all passenger carriers in the uk to have seatbelts ,has been for a couple of years,,

And how many people ignore them? I wouldn't use seat-belts on a bus.

On National Express services in the UK the driver tells every passenger they must wear their seatbelts or remove themselves from the bus. Passengers are also made aware that in the event of an accident anyone not wearing a seatbelt is not covered by the company's insurance.

[Keesters]

This topic relates to safety. Safety is something Thailand seems to have little regard for. Locking of fire exits; blocking of fire equipment; overcrowding in shopping malls; sales of dangerous fireworks to very young children; discos built with flammable materials; badly constructed scaffolding; failure to use seat belts; failure to wear safety helmets; vehicles failing to stop for pedestrians on a crossing; talking, without hands-free device, on the mobile whilst driving car or riding motorbike; overloaded pickup trucks; passenger hanging out the back of baht buses; Rabid and dangerous dogs allowed to roam public streets; etc. etc. And each of these examples are not few in number, they are huge. Safety helmets for instance. At any given time in Pattaya I'd estimate only a 70% observance of the rule with children as passengers at as little as 1%. Failing to stop for a pedestrian on a crossing 99%. People know the rules but take little notice of them. Enforcement of the rules is so infrequent it has no effect. The penalties are so ridiculously small people are prepared to pay them over and over again.

My condolences to the mother of the young European man who was the victim of this senseless lack of regard for safety. But Thais too are victims of the same lack of safety yet they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

It's not about caring about safety, it's a disregard for human life that is the core of the matter. If Thais don't want to do anything about safety (or corruption) then they aren't victims are they? They are at worst perpetrators and at best complicit. For example, if a Thai motorcycle rider dies of head injuries because he didn't wear a helmet, is he any less guilty of causing his own death just because a careless driver cut in front of him?

I understand what you're saying and to some extent agree. For your motorcycle rider example he is no less guilty assuming he knew that wearing a helmet may save his life. And I'm pretty sure he would know as helmets have been compulsory all over the country for many years. But for a child who was just walking along the street when suddenly scaffolding fell on them that child has no element of guilt at all. Being underage they are nothing but a victim. Their parents, the scaffolding builders, the building inspectors are all the ones guilty. And guilty they are too as in most cases laws and regulations do exist on safety measures it is just that everybody ignores them. It is the innocent, the young, who suffer most from this lack of regard for safety or disregard for human life as you like to put it. Is that acceptable or even tolerable. Not to me it isn't.

[Chicog]

She said she planned to meet with the Land Transportation Division and its local office in Ranong to query why the bus, which had recently passed an inspection, had worn-out tyres without tread on them.

Love to hear that answer, if there ever is one.

[crazykopite]

A very sad case and I feel for this woman and her loss however nothing will change and reports like this will still be getting written 10 years down the road, it is not just buses it is all types of transport due to very poor regulations. It seems more and more that I see drivers on buses / cars /motor bikes trundling along with not a care in the world with a mobile in one hand and the other hand sterring the vehicle. Vehicle tests are a complete joke as is obtaining a drivers licence !!!!!!!!

[gemini81]

Good luck warning and exposing others. But it does appear naïve.

[gemini81]

This is Thailand. Thais choose to "opt out" of many safety procedures. Their option, their country. We can choose to adopt their lifestyle, our option.

Makes no sense to educated foreigners to, for example, drive on slick tyres, but, to Thais, being generally uneducated, it's quite normal. Nothing to even think about!

And the authorities, same story, uneducated, and choose not to implement any kind of sensibility. Again, their choice, their country.

I recently purchased a new car, same cost and same model as the Aussie version.

the difference being:

a) instead of 7 air bags, the Thai one had a single air bag.

no heating - important to me for de-fogging the windscreen.

plus many other penny-pinching 'economies such as no light in the boot.

I had to change the side window tinting as I couldn't see out at night. What was fitted is illegal here, but everyone does it. No doubt saves face when you can't see the idiot who has just cut you off to be at the lights first.

It's amazing what they can get away with here.

..guess that's why we're all still here!

[impulse]

If one tourist decides not to go to a dangerous destination for safety reasons, or decides to fly instead of taking a bus between Thai (or Indian, or Chinese, or..or..) towns, or gets off an unsafe vehicle because they remember her words.

If one parent doesn't get the phone call she got, she has succeeded wildly.

Nothing may change systemically, but lives are saved one at a time.

I salute her and wish her Godspeed.

Edited May 8, 2013 by impulse

[aussiebebe]

I applaud any efforts made to educate people about road-safety in other countries - I think it's pretty easy to research this yourself nowadays with youtube.

[Munger]

You are talking about the safety requirements in your home country. PLEASE REMEMBER YOU ARE IN THAILAND.

I feel sorry for the loss of her son, but if you want to go on holiday or live in Thailand you have to know the rules and regulations of Thailand.

3 weeks ago I picked up 2 British after a road accident with their rented motor bike.

I asked the driver if he had an English Driving License to drive a motorbike, his answer:

"No, I even never sit on a moped at home".

Tourists, the think they are in heaven and forget every rule and regulation, even the simple ones they have at home.

But hey, lets blame the Thais for the stupidity of the Tourists.

What a stupid reply. Please read the topic before you chime in and try to defend the thais.

[Thai at Heart]

This topic relates to safety. Safety is something Thailand seems to have little regard for. Locking of fire exits; blocking of fire equipment; overcrowding in shopping malls; sales of dangerous fireworks to very young children; discos built with flammable materials; badly constructed scaffolding; failure to use seat belts; failure to wear safety helmets; vehicles failing to stop for pedestrians on a crossing; talking, without hands-free device, on the mobile whilst driving car or riding motorbike; overloaded pickup trucks; passenger hanging out the back of baht buses; Rabid and dangerous dogs allowed to roam public streets; etc. etc. And each of these examples are not few in number, they are huge. Safety helmets for instance. At any given time in Pattaya I'd estimate only a 70% observance of the rule with children as passengers at as little as 1%. Failing to stop for a pedestrian on a crossing 99%. People know the rules but take little notice of them. Enforcement of the rules is so infrequent it has no effect. The penalties are so ridiculously small people are prepared to pay them over and over again.

My condolences to the mother of the young European man who was the victim of this senseless lack of regard for safety. But Thais too are victims of the same lack of safety yet they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Risk understanding in Thailand is miniscule. They have made some improvements in motorcycle helmets in the last 10 years.

Most poor nations are the same, but it is only the last few years that anyone is starting to understand the cost of accidents and the damage inflicted on society. So, give it some time.

Lest we forget it took Ralph Nader in only the 60 s to show people the value of seat belts. 40 years ago 80% of your Thai neighbours were rice farmers and got less than the education a 10 year old gets in the west today. So what does anyone expect?

I reckon motorcycles should come with free proper helmets and be speed limited.

[Keesters]

This topic relates to safety. Safety is something Thailand seems to have little regard for. Locking of fire exits; blocking of fire equipment; overcrowding in shopping malls; sales of dangerous fireworks to very young children; discos built with flammable materials; badly constructed scaffolding; failure to use seat belts; failure to wear safety helmets; vehicles failing to stop for pedestrians on a crossing; talking, without hands-free device, on the mobile whilst driving car or riding motorbike; overloaded pickup trucks; passenger hanging out the back of baht buses; Rabid and dangerous dogs allowed to roam public streets; etc. etc. And each of these examples are not few in number, they are huge. Safety helmets for instance. At any given time in Pattaya I'd estimate only a 70% observance of the rule with children as passengers at as little as 1%. Failing to stop for a pedestrian on a crossing 99%. People know the rules but take little notice of them. Enforcement of the rules is so infrequent it has no effect. The penalties are so ridiculously small people are prepared to pay them over and over again.

My condolences to the mother of the young European man who was the victim of this senseless lack of regard for safety. But Thais too are victims of the same lack of safety yet they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Risk understanding in Thailand is miniscule. They have made some improvements in motorcycle helmets in the last 10 years.

Most poor nations are the same, but it is only the last few years that anyone is starting to understand the cost of accidents and the damage inflicted on society. So, give it some time.

Lest we forget it took Ralph Nader in only the 60 s to show people the value of seat belts. 40 years ago 80% of your Thai neighbours were rice farmers and got less than the education a 10 year old gets in the west today. So what does anyone expect?

I reckon motorcycles should come with free proper helmets and be speed limited.

I've been here almost 30 years and have seen little change with regard to safety. They still sell potentially dangerous fireworks to little kids. Helmet observance gone from 5% to 70% for adults, 0% to 1% for children. Fire exits are still blocked. Still almost nobody stops for pedestrians on a crossing. 30 years ago my neighbors were educated. Gold shop owner, banker, schoolteacher, high ranking naval and air-force officers and the like with one car and a few motorbikes. Now in the same neighborhood it's non-working Thai 'housewives' of farang, mobile food vendors, the rest I've no idea what they do except keep very late hours. Now it's 6 cars and many motorbikes. Much more money but far less education.

"So, give it some time." At 60 I don't think I've got enough time left to see a real change.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Keesters

[meatboy]

This topic relates to safety. Safety is something Thailand seems to have little regard for. Locking of fire exits; blocking of fire equipment; overcrowding in shopping malls; sales of dangerous fireworks to very young children; discos built with flammable materials; badly constructed scaffolding; failure to use seat belts; failure to wear safety helmets; vehicles failing to stop for pedestrians on a crossing; talking, without hands-free device, on the mobile whilst driving car or riding motorbike; overloaded pickup trucks; passenger hanging out the back of baht buses; Rabid and dangerous dogs allowed to roam public streets; etc. etc. And each of these examples are not few in number, they are huge. Safety helmets for instance. At any given time in Pattaya I'd estimate only a 70% observance of the rule with children as passengers at as little as 1%. Failing to stop for a pedestrian on a crossing 99%. People know the rules but take little notice of them. Enforcement of the rules is so infrequent it has no effect. The penalties are so ridiculously small people are prepared to pay them over and over again.

My condolences to the mother of the young European man who was the victim of this senseless lack of regard for safety. But Thais too are victims of the same lack of safety yet they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Risk understanding in Thailand is miniscule. They have made some improvements in motorcycle helmets in the last 10 years.

Most poor nations are the same, but it is only the last few years that anyone is starting to understand the cost of accidents and the damage inflicted on society. So, give it some time.

Lest we forget it took Ralph Nader in only the 60 s to show people the value of seat belts. 40 years ago 80% of your Thai neighbours were rice farmers and got less than the education a 10 year old gets in the west today. So what does anyone expect?

I reckon motorcycles should come with free proper helmets and be speed limited.

thailand a poor nation dont make me laugh if all the money thats being thieved in goverments went into the economy and was properly spent and mp's had brains then maybe just maybe things would get a little bit better.

[masuk]

This topic relates to safety. Safety is something Thailand seems to have little regard for. Locking of fire exits; blocking of fire equipment; overcrowding in shopping malls; sales of dangerous fireworks to very young children; discos built with flammable materials; badly constructed scaffolding; failure to use seat belts; failure to wear safety helmets; vehicles failing to stop for pedestrians on a crossing; talking, without hands-free device, on the mobile whilst driving car or riding motorbike; overloaded pickup trucks; passenger hanging out the back of baht buses; Rabid and dangerous dogs allowed to roam public streets; etc. etc. And each of these examples are not few in number, they are huge. Safety helmets for instance. At any given time in Pattaya I'd estimate only a 70% observance of the rule with children as passengers at as little as 1%. Failing to stop for a pedestrian on a crossing 99%. People know the rules but take little notice of them. Enforcement of the rules is so infrequent it has no effect. The penalties are so ridiculously small people are prepared to pay them over and over again.

My condolences to the mother of the young European man who was the victim of this senseless lack of regard for safety. But Thais too are victims of the same lack of safety yet they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Risk understanding in Thailand is miniscule. They have made some improvements in motorcycle helmets in the last 10 years.

Most poor nations are the same, but it is only the last few years that anyone is starting to understand the cost of accidents and the damage inflicted on society. So, give it some time.

Lest we forget it took Ralph Nader in only the 60 s to show people the value of seat belts. 40 years ago 80% of your Thai neighbours were rice farmers and got less than the education a 10 year old gets in the west today. So what does anyone expect?

I reckon motorcycles should come with free proper helmets and be speed limited.

I've been here almost 30 years and have seen little change with regard to safety. They still sell potentially dangerous fireworks to little kids. Helmet observance gone from 5% to 70% for adults, 0% to 1% for children. Fire exits are still blocked. Still almost nobody stops for pedestrians on a crossing. 30 years ago my neighbors were educated. Gold shop owner, banker, schoolteacher, high ranking naval and air-force officers and the like with one car and a few motorbikes. Now in the same neighborhood it's non-working Thai 'housewives' of farang, mobile food vendors, the rest I've no idea what they do except keep very late hours. Now it's 6 cars and many motorbikes. Much more money but far less education.

"So, give it some time." At 60 I don't think I've got enough time left to see a real change.

I'd have to agree with all of what you say. but 70% wearing helmets? Not all over Thailand. It's more like 40% even in Chiang Mai city, and the police were out yesterday booking offenders, but it goes on and on!

The rest of what you say is horribly familiar.

On the matter of fire exits, I once did a safety survey of one campus in Indonesia. In my covering letter I asked the Vice--Chancellor if he had really good insurance, as he'd have the pants sued off him by parents whose kids were locked inside lecture theatres, if an accident happened. Lecturers chained the doors before each lecture, to keep out late-comers.

He acted very promptly on this matter.

Then followed the usual litany of empty fire extinguishers, faulty unearthed wiring and so on.

Sadly, it still goes on, and applies in most of SE Asia, with the notable exception of Singapore.

Maybe a few less shampoo commercials on TV and a little bit of public education.

[Keesters]

masuk, on 09 May 2013 - 09:34, said:

Keesters, on 09 May 2013 - 07:54, said:

Thai at Heart, on 08 May 2013 - 18:02, said:

Keesters, on 07 May 2013 - 09:48, said:

This topic relates to safety. Safety is something Thailand seems to have little regard for. Locking of fire exits; blocking of fire equipment; overcrowding in shopping malls; sales of dangerous fireworks to very young children; discos built with flammable materials; badly constructed scaffolding; failure to use seat belts; failure to wear safety helmets; vehicles failing to stop for pedestrians on a crossing; talking, without hands-free device, on the mobile whilst driving car or riding motorbike; overloaded pickup trucks; passenger hanging out the back of baht buses; Rabid and dangerous dogs allowed to roam public streets; etc. etc. And each of these examples are not few in number, they are huge. Safety helmets for instance. At any given time in Pattaya I'd estimate only a 70% observance of the rule with children as passengers at as little as 1%. Failing to stop for a pedestrian on a crossing 99%. People know the rules but take little notice of them. Enforcement of the rules is so infrequent it has no effect. The penalties are so ridiculously small people are prepared to pay them over and over again.

My condolences to the mother of the young European man who was the victim of this senseless lack of regard for safety. But Thais too are victims of the same lack of safety yet they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Risk understanding in Thailand is miniscule. They have made some improvements in motorcycle helmets in the last 10 years.

Most poor nations are the same, but it is only the last few years that anyone is starting to understand the cost of accidents and the damage inflicted on society. So, give it some time.

Lest we forget it took Ralph Nader in only the 60 s to show people the value of seat belts. 40 years ago 80% of your Thai neighbours were rice farmers and got less than the education a 10 year old gets in the west today. So what does anyone expect?

I reckon motorcycles should come with free proper helmets and be speed limited.

I've been here almost 30 years and have seen little change with regard to safety. They still sell potentially dangerous fireworks to little kids. Helmet observance gone from 5% to 70% for adults, 0% to 1% for children. Fire exits are still blocked. Still almost nobody stops for pedestrians on a crossing. 30 years ago my neighbors were educated. Gold shop owner, banker, schoolteacher, high ranking naval and air-force officers and the like with one car and a few motorbikes. Now in the same neighborhood it's non-working Thai 'housewives' of farang, mobile food vendors, the rest I've no idea what they do except keep very late hours. Now it's 6 cars and many motorbikes. Much more money but far less education.

"So, give it some time." At 60 I don't think I've got enough time left to see a real change.

I'd have to agree with all of what you say. but 70% wearing helmets? Not all over Thailand. It's more like 40% even in Chiang Mai city, and the police were out yesterday booking offenders, but it goes on and on!

The rest of what you say is horribly familiar.

On the matter of fire exits, I once did a safety survey of one campus in Indonesia. In my covering letter I asked the Vice--Chancellor if he had really good insurance, as he'd have the pants sued off him by parents whose kids were locked inside lecture theatres, if an accident happened. Lecturers chained the doors before each lecture, to keep out late-comers.

He acted very promptly on this matter.

Then followed the usual litany of empty fire extinguishers, faulty unearthed wiring and so on.

Sadly, it still goes on, and applies in most of SE Asia, with the notable exception of Singapore.

Maybe a few less shampoo commercials on TV and a little bit of public education.

70% was actually an estimation of observance as I sit in the afternoon/evenings beside a busy Pattaya soi. With a lot of farang wearing helmets they almost always ensure their passenger wears one so that probably pushes the % far higher than it is nationwide.

Some months ago I, using a mobile phone, photographed a blocked fire exit in one of Pattaya's major shopping malls. I showed it to the information desk telling them that if they didn't do something the photo would be sent to Channel 3 TV station. An hour or more later, with my finger still on the send button, they had cleared the exit of all the motorbikes that were blocking it. Last week I visited the same place again. Same fire exit, blocked again. I left. Doubt I'll go back. Will they never learn?

Agree about TV. Is there even one public safety infomercial in Thailand? Do they have safety/fire drills in public schools? Don't remember any of my kids here telling me.

[Tomtomtom69]

As a foreigner you can't sue them.

Nonsense.

Thai natural and juridical persons, as well as those domiciled in Thailand can bring suits against any defendant. Non-nationals and non-domiciled persons and entities can sue defendants domiciled in Thailand. Foreign persons or entities suing in Thailand need not be physically present in the country during the entire course of the suit. A lawyer in Thailand may file suit on the foreigner's behalf, and the foreign litigant may reserve personal appearance only when required by the court to give testimony against the contending party. Jurisdiction is determined by law alone. Venue may be waived, or may be subject to the agreement of parties.

The petitioning party is responsible for requesting the court to issue the summons against the respondent. A separate petition must be filed to request the court to serve the complaint and summons to the defendant. A reasonable amount of time is allowed for the service. If the defendant is not domiciled in Thailand, service of summons must be done through diplomatic channels. Foreign judgments are not enforceable in Thailand. A separate suit needs to be filed, and the foreign judgment is presented as evidence in the new case. In such cases, the court will necessarily examine whether the foreign court which decided the case had jurisdiction and whether the judgment was final.

Siam-Legal

Agreed about the law part Tywais.

If you're going to make an argument even in a round-about way that locals might have some greater recourse or chance to get justice in Thailand you are severely mistaken, stingray. In fact, I would bet it's more likely to be the opposite. Locals generally have fewer financial resources than foreigners and hi-lighting safety concerns by locals generally means nothing here. Foreigners making such concerns may also not have much luck (unfortunately) but by virtue of being foreigners whose story would likely be told abroad, the local authorities in Thailand would be far more likely to act and meet their demands (even if the chances are still low) to a foreigner attempting to sue their company than a local.

[impulse]

This topic relates to safety. Safety is something Thailand seems to have little regard for. Locking of fire exits; blocking of fire equipment; overcrowding in shopping malls; sales of dangerous fireworks to very young children; discos built with flammable materials; badly constructed scaffolding; failure to use seat belts; failure to wear safety helmets; vehicles failing to stop for pedestrians on a crossing; talking, without hands-free device, on the mobile whilst driving car or riding motorbike; overloaded pickup trucks; passenger hanging out the back of baht buses; Rabid and dangerous dogs allowed to roam public streets; etc. etc. And each of these examples are not few in number, they are huge. Safety helmets for instance. At any given time in Pattaya I'd estimate only a 70% observance of the rule with children as passengers at as little as 1%. Failing to stop for a pedestrian on a crossing 99%. People know the rules but take little notice of them. Enforcement of the rules is so infrequent it has no effect. The penalties are so ridiculously small people are prepared to pay them over and over again.

My condolences to the mother of the young European man who was the victim of this senseless lack of regard for safety. But Thais too are victims of the same lack of safety yet they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Risk understanding in Thailand is miniscule. They have made some improvements in motorcycle helmets in the last 10 years.

Most poor nations are the same, but it is only the last few years that anyone is starting to understand the cost of accidents and the damage inflicted on society. So, give it some time.

Lest we forget it took Ralph Nader in only the 60 s to show people the value of seat belts. 40 years ago 80% of your Thai neighbours were rice farmers and got less than the education a 10 year old gets in the west today. So what does anyone expect?

I reckon motorcycles should come with free proper helmets and be speed limited.

thailand a poor nation dont make me laugh if all the money thats being thieved in goverments went into the economy and was properly spent and mp's had brains then maybe just maybe things would get a little bit better.

If the MP's have no brains, how'za come they got all the money? Dumb like foxes.

[Tomtomtom69]

The article doesn't say what bus company Mrs Robinson's son was traveling with. If it was a bus operated by the government Transport Company, which has a good safety reputation, I'd be surprised to hear about this accident. If it was a fly-by-night operator, which by the sounds of it, it was, then I'm not surprised.

While I wish her luck in her pursuit of justice for her son and to make sure this doesn't happen again, sadly she is in for an uphill battle. Her first mistake is assuming Thailand has the same, or similar laws to the UK with regards to traffic rules and their enforcement. She should first educate herself about the actual laws in Thailand that apply to this situation and then make a case of why they weren't followed - and only then perhaps she could make a recommendation on how to make sure nothing like this is repeated again, similar to an air accident investigation where you first determine what happened, then (if relevant) if a breach of an existing regulation was made, then why, and finally recommendations on how to avoid similar incidents in the future.

The article also does not mention how this bus accident happened. Maybe it was more than just the "tire tread being bare" but also, unsurprisingly a case of human factors being involved here. More than likely the driver was tired, was trying to take an evasive action or perhaps couldn't properly steer his bus around a simple corner. I don't know the exact story - but more investigations by her, the type of investigation that is thorough and goes to all lengths to uncover ALL the factors at play here MAY yield some success if she tells her story to the right audience(s). In such case, the authorities/the bus company involved or other bus companies, stakeholders etc. MIGHT just listen and correct the problems identified because if they don't, either tourists stop coming, the rest of the world will think negatively of them and it could affect their businesses.

Applying a sort of "A Current Affair" type dramatic twist with the reporter holding her hand while she sobs and explains to the reporter about how she's fared since her son's death and how the whole system in Thailand is screwed up is sadly, not going to make any impact here in Thailand. It might, however just make UK viewers think twice about what form of transport they choose when traveling in Thailand and the greater question of road safety in Thailand in general.

It would be nice if Thailand could finally adopt a more authoritarian approach to road traffic rule enforcement, which other nearby countries have taken in recent years, but I suspect the reason they don't has more to do with culture and the political situation in Thailand than anything else. For example, while Vietnam is hardly a good role model for road rule enforcement as driving standards there are even more erratic than in Thailand, it does stand out from Thailand in the following ways, which are surprising given it is a poorer, less developed country (but remember Vietnam is also a socialist country):

Since 2007, the Vietnamese authorities have managed to enforce helmet wearing regulations throughout the country, with steep fines and even the confiscation of offender's motorcycles should they not be able to pay the fines imposed or even just outright confiscation for up to 30 days anyway. This has resulted in a roughly 99% compliance rate all over the country.

The Thai authorities on the other hand still struggle, like they have for years and years, to get the message across and the police occasionally set-up road blocks, which, if helmet-less "offenders" see them in time is a good reason to make a quick illegal u-turn, without any fear that the police will chase them down and try to lock them up for this evasive maneuver. Offenders that are caught are usually given a meaningless 100-200 Baht "slap-on-the-wrist" fine, which serves absolutely no purpose, doesn't change their behavior and they keep on offending again later that same day. After all, the next police road block wouldn't be for another 6 months anyway and probably in the same location so the odds of getting caught again are minimal.

In Vietnam, 50,000 Dong slap-on-the-wrist fines don't exist; the police will be very unlikely to go below 100,000 Dong (and usually 200,000+) for such transgressions. The police there are tough and while they may be just as corrupt as their Thai counterparts, unlike in Thailand, the locals fear them. They know their place in society and an attempt to bribe them 50,000 Dong (about $2.50 or 70 Baht) would be an amount they would laugh at - either you pay up or your bike is gone.

When it comes to driving without a license in China for example (and I'm talking about not being in possession of a mainland Chinese driver's license as other licenses are not accepted for driving in China) the penalty is 15 days in jail and a fine of up to 2000? Yuan. Since China is at least trying to become like the west, they also take their law and order seriously. Again, China is hardly corruption free nor are the driving standards there particularly good, but I can assure you that if you get stopped by the police in China and don't have a Chinese driver's license in your possession, you should be seeing sweat down your face because even in the absence of any other rules being broken, you will likely end up in jail or at least with a steep fine.

In Thailand? Police officer and you have a good laugh when you tell him you don't have a license, you might provide "Mr. officer" with a nice "present" for his "son's birthday" of 100 Baht, after bargaining down from say, 500 Baht and you drive off and wish the guy a nice day.

If Thailand doesn't start learning, even from the examples of neighboring countries that I have just presented, nothing will ever change here. But perhaps it's a cultural thing - Thailand doesn't have the same drive to become a developed country like China does. I think Thailand is content with it's place in the world hierarchy and that's where it wants to stay...

Edited May 10, 2013 by Tomtomtom69

[Rykbanlor]

First go to India then come back here and say how good the driving is.

word!

[blueshark]

One of the problems associated with providing legitimate transport is the cost of maintaining a good and safe service. I had a transport company in France for a while and the rules and regulations were almost prohibitive, but necessary. Vehicles were rigorously checked every year, bus drivers go nowhere without a tachometer, every driver has to have an annual medical and paperwork is checked regularly at random.

BUT, young Felix and many thousands like him come here looking for a cheap holiday and cheap transport, you've only got to read the forums! Do they ask the bus driver where the seat belts are, do they notice the tyres? As jalansanitwong says, they're here on an adventure, what's a couple of bald tyres between friends?

As long as there is no properly controlled legislation to stop these operators, they will continue their practice and carry on killing tourists.

If you want to avoid the dangers, get a plane or a ferry.

Very sad for Mrs Robinson, but suing the bus company is not going to make one iota of difference to the public transport system in Thailand!

I sadly agree that plus the useless thai politicians who seem to forget everything by monday morning are just the sort you need to get F**** all done about it!