Foreigner Beaten By Tuk-Tuk Drivers After Not Paying Extortionate Fee At Karaoke Bar

[hml367]

I would add to characterizing Tuk Tuk drivers: night time drivers are a different group than day time drivers; certain areas have different type of drivers.

If a user of Tuk Tuks has negative experiences with Tuk Tuks in Chiang Mai every time, I would guess that is an anomaly.

If someone thinks Tuk Tuk drivers only accost foreigners, including physical violence, that is just not true.

MSPain

Edited May 9, 2013 by hml367

[Monkeyrobot]

As soon as I read the ridiculous comment that all tuk-tuk drivers are scumbags I had the guy sussed. I could just imagine the type of person who would say something like that. You meet good and bad in all walks of life and tuk-tuk drivers are no exception. If I had to make an exception to the rule it would be the people who run bars that specialise in ripping customes off with blown out bar bills. I have been lucky as far as being ripped off goes, but I am very wary about drinking in bars that I do not know.

They are not scumbags they are far worse than that.

[CMKiwi]

Hey, I too know about these bars in Chang Klan Road....first hand. Silly me actually and somewhat naive, I had spent a few hours at the night market looking around and decided to walk back to my condo as it was a nice night to do so. My condo is at the other end of Chang Klan Road. Luckily I didnt take one of the tout tuk tuks that everyone has mentioned or things may have gotten really ugly. However back to the story, it took about 30 minutes to get back to my condo and I had seen all these 'girlie' type kareoke bars on my many trips into town over the months I was staying in CM. I had never before gone into any of these kareoke joints but for some reason that night I thought Id stop for one cold beer (Yes the girls out front are quite enticing but all part of the ploy to get you inside!)

I asked if they have a bar (as such) and they said no but that I could have a beer in one of their 'rooms'. OK I thought, no harm in that. The next thing I was getting pestered into using a kareoke machine, which I declined by saying that I just want a nice cold beer as it was quite warm out. Then I was asked if I want a girl as 'company'. Again I declined and mentioned a cold beer is fine. Next thing you know all the pretty girls were paraded in front of me (18 in total from what I remember). I was asked which ones I like. I said I like them all but just want a quiet cold beer and then Id leave.

I dont think they were happy. Long story short... I had my small cold beer and asked for the bill. They wanted 5000 baht! <deleted>? I was asked if there was a problem and they went and fetched the mamasan. I went over the bill with her and managed to get it down to 1800 baht, still a rip off for a 330ml beer but I had learnt my lesson. The ancillary costs were for the room, the kareoke machine that I didnt use, and the lady drinks I didnt buy plus a quick perve at all the girls when they were paraded in front of me!

The mamasan even had the cheek to ask if I wanted her to order me a tuk tuk, and having read these forums luckily I declined the offer and walked back to my condo. Actually the mamasan didnt appear that old and was rather easy on the eye, however looks can be decieving and as they say business is business. I now consider myself lucky to have 'escaped' and doubt that I will ever return to any of these type of places unless with a crowd. The risk to individuals is just too great.

To any tourists I meet and if they mention going to a kareoke place, a warning is always given. I am actually surprised these bars survive as their reputation in CM is not great.

We all live and learn huh?

[connda]

Hey, I too know about these bars in Chang Klan Road....first hand. Silly me actually and somewhat naive, I had spent a few hours at the night market looking around and decided to walk back to my condo as it was a nice night to do so. My condo is at the other end of Chang Klan Road. Luckily I didnt take one of the tout tuk tuks that everyone has mentioned or things may have gotten really ugly. However back to the story, it took about 30 minutes to get back to my condo and I had seen all these 'girlie' type kareoke bars on my many trips into town over the months I was staying in CM. I had never before gone into any of these kareoke joints but for some reason that night I thought Id stop for one cold beer (Yes the girls out front are quite enticing but all part of the ploy to get you inside!)

I asked if they have a bar (as such) and they said no but that I could have a beer in one of their 'rooms'. OK I thought, no harm in that. The next thing I was getting pestered into using a kareoke machine, which I declined by saying that I just want a nice cold beer as it was quite warm out. Then I was asked if I want a girl as 'company'. Again I declined and mentioned a cold beer is fine. Next thing you know all the pretty girls were paraded in front of me (18 in total from what I remember). I was asked which ones I like. I said I like them all but just want a quiet cold beer and then Id leave.

I dont think they were happy. Long story short... I had my small cold beer and asked for the bill. They wanted 5000 baht! <deleted>? I was asked if there was a problem and they went and fetched the mamasan. I went over the bill with her and managed to get it down to 1800 baht, still a rip off for a 330ml beer but I had learnt my lesson. The ancillary costs were for the room, the kareoke machine that I didnt use, and the lady drinks I didnt buy plus a quick perve at all the girls when they were paraded in front of me!

The mamasan even had the cheek to ask if I wanted her to order me a tuk tuk, and having read these forums luckily I declined the offer and walked back to my condo. Actually the mamasan didnt appear that old and was rather easy on the eye, however looks can be decieving and as they say business is business. I now consider myself lucky to have 'escaped' and doubt that I will ever return to any of these type of places unless with a crowd. The risk to individuals is just too great.

To any tourists I meet and if they mention going to a kareoke place, a warning is always given. I am actually surprised these bars survive as their reputation in CM is not great.

We all live and learn huh?

Just curious, but does anyone know what Thai guys are paying. Taking your buddies to Karaoke must be a status thing with some (or most) of these dudes as they can show off how rich they are by tossing a lot of cash around.

[bobl]

We all live and learn huh?

My first and last experience of a clip joint was in Soho, London, when I was called to assist a hapless Irish friend who'd blundered into one.

When I arrived and got inside, the doors were locked and our lives were threatened by several no-neck types that crawled out of the woodwork which quickly dissolved any inclination to fight our way out. We were locked in until we agreed to pay - which we eventually negotiated down to £40 (this was in the early 80's) - £30 for him and a tenner for me because I smiled and said "hello" to a young lady as I entered.

On the way out, they produced a price list well hidden behind a large, potted plant on the counter (I think the cheapest thing on there was about £20 for a beer). I consider myself lucky to have got the lesson early in life, which prepared me to both recognise and avoid these joints.

[Neeranam]

“It was all captured on a CCTV camera and I have got the option to press charges,” he says, “but retribution does not thrill me. I just want to warn others.”

I wouldn't worry about retribution, but spending several days in a police station pressing charges, knowing all the time that at best the attackers will get a 500 baht fine, would deter me too.

Since the tuk tuk mafia is running that town, and other towns, the only thing to do is stay away from them at all times. Just like one would stay away from any organised crime gang. And no, it is not just a few bad apples, virtually every tuk tuk driver in the country is a scumbag!

Tuk tuk drivers in tourist areas perhaps but certainly not all of the country.

[HeavyDrinker]

Just curious, but does anyone know what Thai guys are paying.

They get scammed something rotten too. There's a little gaggle of Karaoke bars near one of my locals and it's always kicking off there. The police will be there at least 3 times a night....

There ain't half some nice crumpet there mind you....

[tfc]

Tell them the cash is in your hotel room at any 5 star hotel. Once safely inside, the hotel will help. Happened to a thwarted jet ski scam attempt in Pattaya.

How and why hotel will help?

How would they help? I suspect the hotel management would take a dim view of a foreigner getting beaten up on their premises.

Some years ago I took a taxi, shared with a woman who arrived on the same flight, from Da Nang to Hoi An in Viuetnam I negotiated a fee to drop her at her hotel and me at my hotel, and he drove to hers first. She gave me her share, and I thought I'd be paying when he dropped me at my hotel, but he demanded a LOT more then and there, and told me to walk to my hotel. I refused, so he reached into his cab and spun around with a taser trying to zap me. I grabbed my dufffel bag and pinned him against the side of his cab, and within 10 seconds, on the command of somebody in reception who saw the incident, the huge iron gates were swung closed, and security descended on him.

He was left in no confusion about his position if he persisted, so they gave me a head start of several minutes before they would let him out. He was paid nothing for the trip, and copped a belting with my duffel bag for his trouble, so hotel staff, in my experience, will assist, and I wasn't a guest at their hotel. Of course that wasn't Thailand, but............

I've had similar experiences in Vietnam. The staff there will really get involved they are almost fearless in confrontation. One time it was the doorman, another time the desk clerk came out. Next thing you know the whole neighborhood is involved and on my side I should add. Even had a policeman get involved on my side too when once a taxi driver tried to rip me off a policeman could see that something was going on came over talked to the guy then told him to go away. He then cautioned me to be extra careful because there are "scams everywhere here."

My friend who was ripped off noticed that the taxi driver refused to drop him in front of his hotel (Sheraton) and guessed, correctly I'd say, that it was because the staff there would make sure he wasn't scammed.

[biplanebluey]

The more I get these stories in my inbox, the more positive I am that I made the correct move getting the hell out of Thailand.

BYE-BYE

[kruangfaifar]

Tell them the cash is in your hotel room at any 5 star hotel. Once safely inside, the hotel will help. Happened to a thwarted jet ski scam attempt in Pattaya.

How and why hotel will help?

I've done this many times. From Rio to Zanzibar to Vietnam, etc. Works very well. Especially if you are their guest or about to be.

They know the scams and will help their customers.

You seem to attract trouble don't you?How did you get trouble in Zanzibar???

Anyway I think that you and the other posters who think that walking into a 5 Star hotel is going to provide protection are living in a dreamworld. I have had experience where staff in a .5 Star hotel (Intercontinental, Valencia, Venezuela) were actively involved in a scam involving their guests (passing personal details about hotel guests to scam merchants who then approach you claiming to know you and somehow knowing everything about you) . In this case why would ordinary low paid staff help the Expat if the guys who are after him tell them that the farang hasn't paid his bill? As soon as you refuse to pay your bill you are in the wrong. I doubt that the BiB would be very sympathetic either and why should they be? The guy sat in a Karaoke all night and he is responsible for keeping tabs on his account. If they won't tell you how much you are paying its time to pay up and leave. Try going to a club or bar in Soho London, run up a tab and try to avoid paying the crazy prices."Den" and the boys won't be negotiating with you!. The bottom line is that it is not illegal to overcharge for drinks in a club but it is illegal to refuse to pay for them

[SteeleJoe]

Anyway I think that you and the other posters who think that walking into a 5 Star hotel is going to provide protection are living in a dreamworld. I have had experience where staff in a .5 Star hotel (Intercontinental, Valencia, Venezuela) were actively involved in a scam involving their guests (passing personal details about hotel guests to scam merchants who then approach you claiming to know you and somehow knowing everything about you) . In this case why would ordinary low paid staff help the Expat if the guys who are after him tell them that the farang hasn't paid his bill? As soon as you refuse to pay your bill you are in the wrong. I doubt that the BiB would be very sympathetic either and why should they be? The guy sat in a Karaoke all night and he is responsible for keeping tabs on his account. If they won't tell you how much you are paying its time to pay up and leave. Try going to a club or bar in Soho London, run up a tab and try to avoid paying the crazy prices."Den" and the boys won't be negotiating with you!. The bottom line is that it is not illegal to overcharge for drinks in a club but it is illegal to refuse to pay for them

* People are speaking, based on various experiences, of being protected from assault, not having unpaid bills being excused due to intervention of a hotel.

* The existence of criminal staff at a hotel in Venezuela neither proves or even indicates anything about the likelihood of what some have said here.

* The pay of staff - which is not that low by Thai standards - is not relevant. Nor is the hypothetical protection offered so much by the staff personally but by the fact that they are in the hotel and the hotel itself would have a certain company culture and policies that would arguably lend to having staff - not necessarily low level - that would not allow someone to be attacked or even followed into the hotel against their wishes.

[F4UCorsair]

* People are speaking, based on various experiences, of being protected from assault, not having unpaid bills being excused due to intervention of a hotel.

* The existence of criminal staff at a hotel in Venezuela neither proves or even indicates anything about the likelihood of what some have said here.

* The pay of staff - which is not that low by Thai standards - is not relevant. Nor is the hypothetical protection offered so much by the staff personally but by the fact that they are in the hotel and the hotel itself would have a certain company culture and policies that would arguably lend to having staff - not necessarily low level - that would not allow someone to be attacked or even followed into the hotel against their wishes.

I agree, it's more company culture, and hotel staff aren't comfortable with a brawl happening in their lobby, and I'm sure that's what it was at Hotel Hoi An, the then best hotel in town.

A few hours later we wandered into a gallery downtown, and an assistant asked if I was OK. I thought the news of a foreigner nailing a local taxi driver to the side of his cab was out and I was being hunted down, but she was hotel staff in reception at the time and later in the day helping out in the family business. She said they didn't let him go for quite some time so we could get out of sight.

[lovetotravel]

Tell them the cash is in your hotel room at any 5 star hotel. Once safely inside, the hotel will help. Happened to a thwarted jet ski scam attempt in Pattaya.

How and why hotel will help?

I've done this many times. From Rio to Zanzibar to Vietnam, etc. Works very well. Especially if you are their guest or about to be.

They know the scams and will help their customers.

You seem to attract trouble don't you?How did you get trouble in Zanzibar???

Anyway I think that you and the other posters who think that walking into a 5 Star hotel is going to provide protection are living in a dreamworld. I have had experience where staff in a .5 Star hotel (Intercontinental, Valencia, Venezuela) were actively involved in a scam involving their guests (passing personal details about hotel guests to scam merchants who then approach you claiming to know you and somehow knowing everything about you) . In this case why would ordinary low paid staff help the Expat if the guys who are after him tell them that the farang hasn't paid his bill? As soon as you refuse to pay your bill you are in the wrong. I doubt that the BiB would be very sympathetic either and why should they be? The guy sat in a Karaoke all night and he is responsible for keeping tabs on his account. If they won't tell you how much you are paying its time to pay up and leave. Try going to a club or bar in Soho London, run up a tab and try to avoid paying the crazy prices."Den" and the boys won't be negotiating with you!. The bottom line is that it is not illegal to overcharge for drinks in a club but it is illegal to refuse to pay for them

Have you ever been to Zanzibar? If so, you'd know what I'm talking about. If not, please don't question what I've written. It's a true story and worked out great for me. Ran into a hotel, didn't have a reservation, but the employees knew what was going on and helped me. Classic scam and hassle.

[raybal5]

I have three rules which have kept me out of somuch traoble.

1. Never take a tuk tuk anywhere ever.

2. Never take a tuk tuk anywhere ever.

3. Never take a tuk tuk anywhere ever.

any questions?

If you had to list 4 reasons what would number 4 be ?

Always use a meter taxi or a songtow

Edited May 9, 2013 by raybal5

[sausageandmash]

tingtongfarang, on 08 May 2013 - 15:32, said:

worked for a friend of mine in a similar situation, he walked in the hotel and the security did,nt allow the thai guys in...friend also was,nt a guest so he walked through and out the door on the next soi.

I find it very hard to believe that security did not allow Thai guys to enter hotel.

I also do not know too many hotels with walk through and exists on both sides, kind of compromises the security just a little bit

I really wish people on this forum would stop talking about Thai guys like they're God Almighty. Just because someone has more legal rights than you, doesn't make them superior.

[sausageandmash]

Tell them the cash is in your hotel room at any 5 star hotel. Once safely inside, the hotel will help. Happened to a thwarted jet ski scam attempt in Pattaya.

How and why hotel will help?

I've done this many times. From Rio to Zanzibar to Vietnam, etc. Works very well. Especially if you are their guest or about to be.

They know the scams and will help their customers.

You seem to attract trouble don't you?How did you get trouble in Zanzibar???

Anyway I think that you and the other posters who think that walking into a 5 Star hotel is going to provide protection are living in a dreamworld. I have had experience where staff in a .5 Star hotel (Intercontinental, Valencia, Venezuela) were actively involved in a scam involving their guests (passing personal details about hotel guests to scam merchants who then approach you claiming to know you and somehow knowing everything about you) . In this case why would ordinary low paid staff help the Expat if the guys who are after him tell them that the farang hasn't paid his bill? As soon as you refuse to pay your bill you are in the wrong. I doubt that the BiB would be very sympathetic either and why should they be? The guy sat in a Karaoke all night and he is responsible for keeping tabs on his account. If they won't tell you how much you are paying its time to pay up and leave. Try going to a club or bar in Soho London, run up a tab and try to avoid paying the crazy prices."Den" and the boys won't be negotiating with you!. The bottom line is that it is not illegal to overcharge for drinks in a club but it is illegal to refuse to pay for them

You seem to get some kind of sick kick out of innocent people getting scammed and beaten up by thuggish, neanderthal locals. I imagine you're a great laugh to hang out with.

[sausageandmash]

“It was all captured on a CCTV camera and I have got the option to press charges,” he says, “but retribution does not thrill me. I just want to warn others.”

I wouldn't worry about retribution, but spending several days in a police station pressing charges, knowing all the time that at best the attackers will get a 500 baht fine, would deter me too.

Since the tuk tuk mafia is running that town, and other towns, the only thing to do is stay away from them at all times. Just like one would stay away from any organised crime gang. And no, it is not just a few bad apples, virtually every tuk tuk driver in the country is a scumbag!

Oh, a very jaundiced view. I have met many tuk tuk drivers who are hard working and genuine people. Of course I do not spend most of my time in these dens of iniquity where you meet a lower class of people both staff and guests. Who taught who about this type of behaviour?

Lets face it, a large number of Farang are the less desirable of their respective countries. Far be it from me to cast aspersions on the writer, he was probably only there to get a drink??

Don't agree with the last statement. A very generalised and dated viewpoint. The quality of white guys (or farangs, as you choose to call them) has improved over the last 6 or 7 years. Most have good jobs and decent families. Open your eyes, we don't all live in Pattaya and it's no longer 2002.

[Mikey5311]

Hmmmmm. I always hear: "Oh oh don't go the Philippines. its so safe here!" Ha. And I live here in Chiang Mai, but just another strike for the hometeam....

About 6 months ago, I was filling the bike at the gas staion past Loi kroh Rd, near the DK Bookstore. 2 Thai teens, 16 - 18 yrs. old in their school clothes, (A technical college is nearby), were fighting. Or actually 1 was kicking the other ones skull apart. I dont use this lightly... one was near unconscious, barley moving, and the other was punching and kicking the kid in the head. The victim had blood pouring out of his eyes. Anyway, all the Thais just watched it. 2 Tuk tuk drivers, a couple of red car drivers, and a few gas station attendants...wouldn't do or say a thing. I pulled the punk away. He and his xxxx xxxxx girlfriend who were yelling "xxxx you farang" at me, but he kept backing up as I walked at him. Eventually he took his little punk g/f and they ran off. All the wimp xxxxx thai watchers cheered me on (kind of like world war 2...no? Anyway, don't expect them to help you -- its their culture and history to not get involved.

Edited May 13, 2013 by metisdead
Large font reset to normal, profanities edited out of post.

[corkythecat]

You could not pay me to go to a Karaoke Bar

[maidu]

I've never seen mace spray for sale in Thailand. have you?

[maidu]

Hmmmmm. I always hear: "Oh oh don't go the Philippines. its so safe here!" Ha. And I live here in Chiang Mai, but just another strike for the hometeam....

About 6 months ago, I was filling the bike at the gas staion past Loi kroh Rd, near the DK Bookstore. 2 Thai teens, 16 - 18 yrs. old in their school clothes, (A technical college is nearby), were fighting. Or actually 1 was kicking the other ones skull apart. I dont use this lightly... one was near unconscious, barley moving, and the other was punching and kicking the kid in the head. The victim had blood pouring out of his eyes. Anyway, all the Thais just watched it. 2 Tuk tuk drivers, a couple of red car drivers, and a few gas station attendants...wouldn't do or say a thing. I pulled the punk away. He and his xxxx xxxxx girlfriend who were yelling "xxxx you farang" at me, but he kept backing up as I walked at him. Eventually he took his little punk g/f and they ran off. All the wimp xxxxx thai watchers cheered me on (kind of like world war 2...no? Anyway, don't expect them to help you -- its their culture and history to not get involved.

I commend you for interfering. As you say, not one in 100 Thais would interfere in such a case, and only perhaps 1 in 20 farang would. I would. We're two of a rare breed.

[bobl]

Have you ever been to Zanzibar? If so, you'd know what I'm talking about. If not, please don't question what I've written.

I have. Many, many, many, many times, I lived in Tanzania for 16 years. And I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. So I reject your polite but outrageous suggestion that we take what you've written as gospel.

[OldChinaHam]

"Anyway, don't expect them to help you -- its their culture and history to not get involved."

Is it permissible to say 'baloney' on TV?

Ok, Baloney.

Has anyone here published a peer reviewed study of altruistic behavior among the Thai population?

Not one?

[OldChinaHam]

CMKiwi

"I asked if they have a bar (as such) and they said no but that I could have a beer in one of their 'rooms'. OK I thought, no harm in that. The next thing I was getting pestered into using a kareoke machine, which I declined by saying that I just want a nice cold beer as it was quite warm out. Then I was asked if I want a girl as 'company'. Again I declined and mentioned a cold beer is fine. Next thing you know all the pretty girls were paraded in front of me (18 in total from what I remember). I was asked which ones I like. I said I like them all but just want a quiet cold beer and then Id leave."

You should have stopped at "Bottoms Up" club,

Instead.

You won't find a "quiet cold beer" in there,

Either.

What do they teach you guys in New Z Land, besides sailing,

Anyway?

[LUSHGOAT]

This may be a bit "off topic", but I hope the mods will allow it.

People say Thailand will never change, and that this type of thing will only get worse. I both agree and disagree, but not for the reasons you might think. My reason? Myanmar. Now that I have you thoroughly confused, scratching you head and asking yourself "<deleted> is he talking about?" I'll explain.

When the government of Myanmar held elections, fair or not, and opened their doors, their tourism jumped over 100% in the first year. They quickly realized they don't have the infrastructure to handle the numbers, nor do they have people qualified to do the things required, so the showed no hesitation in contracting with a Dutch firm to come in to plan and develop hotels and other things. They turned to other American/European countries for assistance in other areas. These are things the proud, superior Thai would rather slit his own throat with a dull knife than do.

Look at a map of Myanmar and see how much totally undeveloped beach front they have on the Adaman Sea and Bay of Bengal. If they do it right, which means not the Thai way, and develop this, and keep out the various "mafia" and "scammers", offering tourist good, same accommodations and attractions, it will be a knife in the heart of Thai Tourism.

At the same time, as numbers drop, the Thai will become even more desperate, more aggressive, more demanding, and we probably will see more examples of what the OP is talking about. Thai philosophy - If they have less business, raise the prices to gouge what customers they do have even more. There's a good definition of "Thainess" for you. lol.

But the increase in violence will only worsen the image of Thailand (if that's possible for those 'in the know'), and even fewer tourists will come. So, maybe in 10 years, when their tourism numbers have dropped to a fraction of what they are now, they might actually wake up and realize it was their finger, on their trigger, of their gun, that shot themselves in their foot.

On the other hand, knowing how they think, they'll find a reason or excuse to blame it on someone else.

No you are wrong there they wont have shot themselves in the foot it will be us Farangs you know with Thai's when they are right they are right and when they are wrong they are still right

[OldChinaHam]

Right you are SJ

The above cited Wiki article points this out.

[Wossnext]

I for one would help. Extortion is a bullsh*t racket, and anybody who tries it, especially with a fellow ex-pat would get the living crap beat out of them. I would have dared the tuk tuk driver to have tried that with me. I'd beat his as* in front of the BIB.

Yes i am sure you would, just for some reason when foreigners get belted on daily basis, no one seems to jump in, but stand around and watch:whistling:

if I thought I could help out some poor guy getting an unfair beating without being jumped on by a load of other Thai guys then I certainly would, happily I am a boring expat who keeps his head low and does not do the bar scene, hence never gets tied up with these pond life tuk tuk pilots. I think foreign governments should issue a Thailand survival guide wallet sized card with all the common scams on it...............oh yeh that's right they do but nobody takes any notice.

[balo]

It's only stupid expats that get into trouble like this.

They dont have a brain and drink too much .

[morocco]

It's only stupid expats that get into trouble like this.

They dont have a brain and drink too much .

Hmmm, a little judgmental are you? Where do you live and what do you do?

[OldChinaHam]

A sure cure for Rambo types

Probably

Is for them to live among the indigenous population

And don't come out for a year

That will surely fix their misconceptions.

But actually, I doubt that it will.

My preference is to spend my time with the locals where ever I go.

After a few years, or a few decades, racial discrimination against the natives becomes so....

Pointless and unadvantageous toward my goal.