91 Or 95?

[Salapoo]

Now for Gas 95 or E20?

E20 also having a 95 Octane rating.

So one 10% E and one 20%E.

I don't care about the price difference, but what is the difference to the engine and performance of 10% and 20%?

For example does E20 gas burn faster than E10 gas?

[Wong!]

The sticker on my Honda says to use 91 Gasohol of 10%.

It says it 'can use', or it says 'to use'?

I have the same sticker on my bike, and it runs much better on 95.

To use.

[commande]

Now for Gas 95 or E20?

E20 also having a 95 Octane rating.

So one 10% E and one 20%E.

I don't care about the price difference, but what is the difference to the engine and performance of 10% and 20%?

For example does E20 gas burn faster than E10 gas?

E20 burns hotter not faster, it's not jet fuel, it is also more corrosive. You shouldn't use it in any vehicle unless it states you can, most vehicles are only rated for 10% and vehicles that are not rated at all can even use E10 rated fuel, it won't hurt them. The sticker on the bikes and cars is the minimum octane rating recommended to use for the vehicle to perform as designed provided the fuel is of good quality. You fill your bike up with E20 and you risk fuel leaks in the future from your fuel lines and other parts that will decay very fast as they where not designed to take that type of corrosive fuel. Might take a year, might take 6 months but it's like smoking, your guaranteed over time to develop serious issues and like most you will never see it coming.

A lot of people like to use 95 octane when the vehicle states 91. In some cases the vehicle may run smoother with 95 and it does have the effect of reducing pinging and detonation on high performance engines, especially those engines with high compression and high RPM, high RPM being anything over 7000-8000 if I recall correctly.

Suggest you try a couple tanks of 95 and see how it runs, switch back to 91 on an empty tank and see if any change. If no change just use 91, save the extra baht for a coffee or something else you like.

Edited May 28, 2013 by commande

[Shurup]

Now for Gas 95 or E20?

 

E20 also having a 95 Octane rating.

 

So one 10% E and one 20%E.

 

I don't care about the price difference, but what is the difference to the engine and performance of 10% and 20%?

 

For example does E20 gas burn faster than E10 gas?

Higher the octane - slower the burning speed. Alcohol content has nothing to do with octane but alcohol by itself burns very slow.

OP, alternate your fills between 91 and 95 so you will have an average of 93 in your tank at all times.

Interesting to note, somehow octane ratings are different is different parts of the world. In Canada the lowest octane is 87 (regular fuel), then we have 89 (for people like OP who can't make their mind ) and then we have 91 as a premium fuel recommended for high compression engines. Only few fuel stations carry 93. In Canada I won't use anything higher than a regular fuel (87) with engines with a CR of up to 11:1. My dirt bike WR450F with a CR of 12.7:1 happily runs on 91 even though the recommended fuel for it is 93.

What's going on in Thailand with all the 10. something to 1 engines pinging on 91 fuel??? Must be more to a fuel quality than the octane?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Bingo66]

Now for Gas 95 or E20?

E20 also having a 95 Octane rating.

So one 10% E and one 20%E.

I don't care about the price difference, but what is the difference to the engine and performance of 10% and 20%?

For example does E20 gas burn faster than E10 gas?

E20 burns hotter not faster, it's not jet fuel, it is also more corrosive. You shouldn't use it in any vehicle unless it states you can, most vehicles are only rated for 10% and vehicles that are not rated at all can even use E10 rated fuel, it won't hurt them. The sticker on the bikes and cars is the minimum octane rating recommended to use for the vehicle to perform as designed provided the fuel is of good quality. You fill your bike up with E20 and you risk fuel leaks in the future from your fuel lines and other parts that will decay very fast as they where not designed to take that type of corrosive fuel. Might take a year, might take 6 months but it's like smoking, your guaranteed over time to develop serious issues and like most you will never see it coming.

A lot of people like to use 95 octane when the vehicle states 91. In some cases the vehicle may run smoother with 95 and it does have the effect of reducing pinging and detonation on high performance engines, especially those engines with high compression and high RPM, high RPM being anything over 7000-8000 if I recall correctly.

Suggest you try a couple tanks of 95 and see how it runs, switch back to 91 on an empty tank and see if any change. If no change just use 91, save the extra baht for a coffee or something else you like.

Bikes since 2010 iirc are built for gasohol and use Neoprene pipes, higher ethanol fuels has no greater effect of engine "corrosion" than gasohol if it's a newish bike with neoprene pipes. It's higher octane, cheaper and better for the environment, so yea if the manual says E20 is ok then use it.

All bikes have the E10 sticker, you have to look in the manufacturers manual and it will give you a list of the fuels you can use.

[commande]

Now for Gas 95 or E20?

E20 also having a 95 Octane rating.

So one 10% E and one 20%E.

I don't care about the price difference, but what is the difference to the engine and performance of 10% and 20%?

For example does E20 gas burn faster than E10 gas?

E20 burns hotter not faster, it's not jet fuel, it is also more corrosive. You shouldn't use it in any vehicle unless it states you can, most vehicles are only rated for 10% and vehicles that are not rated at all can even use E10 rated fuel, it won't hurt them. The sticker on the bikes and cars is the minimum octane rating recommended to use for the vehicle to perform as designed provided the fuel is of good quality. You fill your bike up with E20 and you risk fuel leaks in the future from your fuel lines and other parts that will decay very fast as they where not designed to take that type of corrosive fuel. Might take a year, might take 6 months but it's like smoking, your guaranteed over time to develop serious issues and like most you will never see it coming.

A lot of people like to use 95 octane when the vehicle states 91. In some cases the vehicle may run smoother with 95 and it does have the effect of reducing pinging and detonation on high performance engines, especially those engines with high compression and high RPM, high RPM being anything over 7000-8000 if I recall correctly.

Suggest you try a couple tanks of 95 and see how it runs, switch back to 91 on an empty tank and see if any change. If no change just use 91, save the extra baht for a coffee or something else you like.

Bikes since 2010 iirc are built for gasohol and use Neoprene pipes, higher ethanol fuels has no greater effect of engine "corrosion" than gasohol if it's a newish bike with neoprene pipes. It's higher octane, cheaper and better for the environment, so yea if the manual says E20 is ok then use it.

All bikes have the E10 sticker, you have to look in the manufacturers manual and it will give you a list of the fuels you can use.

Gasohol 91 or 95 E10 = 10% Ethenol Can be burned in all unleaded fuel engines, even if the book doesn't mention the engine can because the vehicle is older. This has been proven safe via a 10 year research study out of the USA and Europe many years ago.

Gasohol 91 or 95 E20 = 20% Ethenol Should not be used in any engine not rated to burn E20 as the fuel lines are not rated to take that high an alcohol level (they are more expensive lines, they are coated neoprene)

Gasohol 91 or 95 E85 = 85% Ethenol Should not be used in any engine not rated to burn E85 as the fuel lines are not rated to take that high an alcohol level (they are more expensive lines beyond neoprene, I can't remember the type at this time but they are also coated and even the connectors are special to avoid fuel leaks)

You can use what ever octane level you want provided you do your best to stick with at least the number on the sticker but you shouldn't load up a vehicle with E20 or E85 if the book doesn't say it's qualified to run it no matter what the octane rating. Sure it will run but how long before a fire starts because a fuel leak developed, you will most likely never see it coming unless you walk outside one day and see a puddle of gas under the bike and you could consider yourself lucky if you did. Better that than becoming a rolling fireball driving down the road or parked at a stoplight.

There are also FlexFuel vehicles from the USA (yes they are here in Thailand also made by Chevrolet) that will burn all three that are very specialized but not required to define further per this topic.

Edited May 28, 2013 by commande

[Bingo66]

Now for Gas 95 or E20?

E20 also having a 95 Octane rating.

So one 10% E and one 20%E.

I don't care about the price difference, but what is the difference to the engine and performance of 10% and 20%?

For example does E20 gas burn faster than E10 gas?

E20 burns hotter not faster, it's not jet fuel, it is also more corrosive. You shouldn't use it in any vehicle unless it states you can, most vehicles are only rated for 10% and vehicles that are not rated at all can even use E10 rated fuel, it won't hurt them. The sticker on the bikes and cars is the minimum octane rating recommended to use for the vehicle to perform as designed provided the fuel is of good quality. You fill your bike up with E20 and you risk fuel leaks in the future from your fuel lines and other parts that will decay very fast as they where not designed to take that type of corrosive fuel. Might take a year, might take 6 months but it's like smoking, your guaranteed over time to develop serious issues and like most you will never see it coming.

A lot of people like to use 95 octane when the vehicle states 91. In some cases the vehicle may run smoother with 95 and it does have the effect of reducing pinging and detonation on high performance engines, especially those engines with high compression and high RPM, high RPM being anything over 7000-8000 if I recall correctly.

Suggest you try a couple tanks of 95 and see how it runs, switch back to 91 on an empty tank and see if any change. If no change just use 91, save the extra baht for a coffee or something else you like.

Bikes since 2010 iirc are built for gasohol and use Neoprene pipes, higher ethanol fuels has no greater effect of engine "corrosion" than gasohol if it's a newish bike with neoprene pipes. It's higher octane, cheaper and better for the environment, so yea if the manual says E20 is ok then use it.

All bikes have the E10 sticker, you have to look in the manufacturers manual and it will give you a list of the fuels you can use.

Gasohol 91 or 95 E10 = 10% Ethenol Can be burned in all unleaded fuel engines, even if the book doesn't mention the engine can because the vehicle is older.

Gasohol 91 or 95 E20 = 20% Ethenol Should not be used in any engine not rated to burn E20 as the fuel lines are not rated to take that high an alcohol level (they are more expensive lines, they are coated neoprene)

Gasohol 91 or 95 E85 = 85% Ethenol Should not be used in any engine not rated to burn E85 as the fuel lines are not rated to take that high an alcohol level (they are more expensive lines beyond neoprene, I can't remember the type at this time but they are also coated and even the connectors are special to avoid fuel leaks)

You can use what ever octane level you want provided you do your best to stick with at least the number on the sticker but you shouldn't load up a vehicle with E20 or E85 if the book doesn't say it's qualified to run it no matter what the octane rating. Sure it will run but how long before a fire starts because a fuel leak developed, you will most likely never see it coming unless you walk outside one day and see a puddle of gas under the bike and you could consider yourself lucky if you did. Better that than becoming a rolling fireball driving down the road or parked at a stoplight.

There are also FlexFuel vehicles from the USA (yes they are here in Thailand also made by Chevrolet) that will burn all three that are very specialized but not required to define further per this topic.

I don't know if you were replying to me or Salapoo, but it made no sense. I wasn't talking about octane, i'm guessing it was a reply to salapoo.

Gasohol cannot be used in older cars/bikes if the ECU isn't configured for it and as you said it is corrosive to fuel lines. However, bikes, cars whatever from 2009 / 2010 and earlier were designed to be used with gasohol and have all neoprene lines and pipes, ethanol does not corrode neoprene, weather it's 10 or 20% thus there will be no leaks. However I still wouldn't use it E20 if it's not been ok'd by the manufacture as i'm not an engineer and i'm sure their are other issues with using it if it's not been made to be supported.

And yes i'm aware of Ethanol on Neoprene and standard fuel lines, I have a degree in biochemistry.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Bingo66

[commande]

I am glad your educated, I suggest you look up the Ethenol usage study that the USA performed many years ago in regards to E10 being used in older cars with the old rubber fuel lines and not neoprene ones we use today. It was proven safe even on cars 25 years old as long as they used unleaded fuel which is the case since about 1975 in the USA when they outlawed leaded gas. It's public record so shouldn't be hard to find.

It doesn't have anything to do with the ECU., carbureted vehicles can even use E10....

Edited May 28, 2013 by commande

[ALFREDO]

Op. What bike is it?

I have a Honda Cbr250 and the gf has a Honda wave 110i. Both run happily on 91-95 gasohol and E20. Just get what's available and cheapest.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

I think, I have no choice, with my old Lady, HONDA 400 CBR Fireblade from 1992 or 1993? Expensive BENZINE it is !

[Bingo66]

I am glad your educated, I suggest you look up the Ethenol usage study that the USA performed many years ago in regards to E10 being used in older cars with the old rubber fuel lines and not neoprene ones we use today. It was proven safe even on cars 25 years old as long as they used unleaded fuel which is the case since about 1975 in the USA when they outlawed leaded gas. It's public record so shouldn't be hard to find.

It doesn't have anything to do with the ECU.

i edited it but it didn't go through, I wasn't disputing using E10 in older cars, and ECU was a mistake I meant carbed engines. If it was me wouldn't put E10 in an old carbed engine to be honest, but I haven't researched it but it can't be great for it.

The bit about I wrote about ECU ... Personally I can't wait for everything to be using E85 and up, cheap 99 octane fuels and better for population? <deleted> yea, I'd love to put a 99 octane only map on the bike and pay <deleted> all for the fuel, major proformance increase from standard 91-95 everyday stock map.

[commande]

I am glad your educated, I suggest you look up the Ethenol usage study that the USA performed many years ago in regards to E10 being used in older cars with the old rubber fuel lines and not neoprene ones we use today. It was proven safe even on cars 25 years old as long as they used unleaded fuel which is the case since about 1975 in the USA when they outlawed leaded gas. It's public record so shouldn't be hard to find.

It doesn't have anything to do with the ECU.

i edited it but it didn't go through, I wasn't disputing using E10 in older cars, and ECU was a mistake I meant carbed engines. If it was me wouldn't put E10 in an old carbed engine to be honest, but I haven't researched it but it can't be great for it.

The bit about I wrote about ECU ... Personally I can't wait for everything to be using E85 and up, cheap 99 octane fuels and better for population? <deleted> yea, I'd love to put a 99 octane only map on the bike and pay <deleted> all for the fuel, major proformance increase from standard 91-95 everyday stock map.

Agree with you completely, I also await that day but I think it's a long time out for now, greedy oil companies ....

[Bingo66]

Op. What bike is it?

I have a Honda Cbr250 and the gf has a Honda wave 110i. Both run happily on 91-95 gasohol and E20. Just get what's available and cheapest.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

I think, I have no choice, with my old Lady, HONDA 400 CBR Fireblade from 1992 or 1993? Expensive BENZINE it is !

Is it the RR engine that revs to 16k?

And this is exact problem with importing bikes and buying older 2nd hand bikes here and that's why I wish Yamaha would start selling R6 and FZ6R here! I want to use E20+++!

[ALFREDO]

Quote

I seem to remember someone posting that Benzine

95 also contains ethanol, at 5% of it's volume.

Oh well if someone posted it on TV then it must be correct. Did they give any reference for their theory?

-95 also contains ethanol, at 5% of it's volume. -

It is like that!! And, because BENZINE has no Ethanol part, it is higher taxed and has a higher price!

Edited May 28, 2013 by ALFREDO

[Bingo66]

Theres a lot of myths and crap about Ethanol fuels, however none of it holds any truth anymore since newer injection bikes and neoprene lines. Listen to your manufacturer (they made the bike) and not the grease monkey on the corner making up conspiracy theories because he owns a 85 Carbed Harley.

[ALFREDO]

Op. What bike is it?

I have a Honda Cbr250 and the gf has a Honda wave 110i. Both run happily on 91-95 gasohol and E20. Just get what's available and cheapest.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

I think, I have no choice, with my old Lady, HONDA 400 CBR Fireblade from 1992 or 1993? Expensive BENZINE it is !

Is it the RR engine that revs to 16k?

And this is exact problem with importing bikes and buying older 2nd hand bikes here and that's why I wish Yamaha would start selling R6 and FZ6R here! I want to use E20+++!

I want to drive her a bit longer, so after 20 years, we must not try the "red field" starting at 14.500 Rpm.

Just repaired the alternator, with new secondhand coil and new Wheel bearings, back one, was broken.

I own her since 2000, what can I do, if they change the fuels since that time.

But with an nearly open Aluminium exhaust, the Flute without insulating wool swings freely in the exhaust, we surely make our passing heard on Isaans roads,

on the right and if it fits us also on the left side, the official Thai "two-wheel lane" on Main Roads.

Edited May 28, 2013 by ALFREDO

[Shurup]

i edited it but it didn't go through, I wasn't disputing using E10 in older cars, and ECU was a mistake I meant carbed engines. If it was me wouldn't put E10 in an old carbed engine to be honest, but I haven't researched it but it can't be great for it.

 

The bit about I wrote about ECU ... Personally I can't wait for everything to be using E85 and up, cheap 99 octane fuels and better for population? <deleted> yea, I'd love to put a 99 octane only map on the bike and pay <deleted> all for the fuel, major proformance increase from standard 91-95 everyday stock map.

You would be surprised, but many older carbed engines were made to accept the E10 fuels, read your owner's manual it could be useful.. My bike is 2005 v2 carbed and runs on Esq as per manual. I know there are older than this bikes that can take E10 furls.

Regarding your second paragraph, sorry you're wrong, there won't be any performance increase from runnung higher octane fuels, there won't be any performance increase from running E85 or up fuels (look up BTU of ethanol and benzine), there won't be any MAJOR increase from modifying fuel maps. Sure you can fine tune AF ratio if you only run one particular fuel all the time, you can fine tune timing advance if you only run one high octane fuel all the time, won't be anything major. You need to change the engine's CR to get any major benefits from using high octane fuel. Race engines have high power output not because of the fuel but because of CR and they have to use high oct fuel because they have no choice really. Ever seen flames shooting out of tail pipes of race cars? That's because race fuels' octane is so high and it burns so slow that it still burning after leaving the engine.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[VocalNeal]

There are also FlexFuel vehicles from BRAZIL (yes they are here in Thailand also made by Chevrolet) that will burn all three that are very specialized but not required to define further per this topic.

Fixed that for you even though this is a bike forum!

[commande]

There are also FlexFuel vehicles from BRAZIL (yes they are here in Thailand also made by Chevrolet) that will burn all three that are very specialized but not required to define further per this topic.

Fixed that for you even though this is a bike forum!

Thank you, Chevrolet Flexfuel engine, designed and engineered in the USA, manufactured in Brazil and USA markets for domestic and export sales ....

Would actually be interesting to see a bike engine with Flexfuel technology not that it would really add any performance but being able to burn any fuel you want is a pretty nice concept.

Edited May 29, 2013 by commande

[Lancelot]

No problems to use 91 for an auto clutch 125cc bike. No need to pay 5 thb extra for 95 per lit means you get a free liter for every 6 liters if you use 91.

I bought a Honda Wave CZi 110 new in 2008. The owners manual listed the following fuels to use: Regular Gasoline, Gasohol 91, Gasohol 95 and E20 (20% alcohol/gasoline blend)

I used mostly Gasohol 91 but E20 when I could find it. Never had a problem with 91 or E20. Parked the bike for two months when I went to the Philippines and the bike started on the first kick (No electric starter)

Buying a higher octane fuel than your engine requires is simply spending money for no increase in performance.

[VocalNeal]

OT again but its a slow day.

Thank you, Chevrolet Flexfuel engine, designed and engineered in the USA, manufactured in Brazil and USA markets for domestic and export sales ....

Apologies I had to resort to surfing but fixed it again for you.

In March 2003 Volkswagen_do_Brasil]Volkswagen do Brasil launched in the market the Volkswagen_Gol 1.6 Total Flex, the first commercial flexible fuel vehicle capable of running on any blend of gasoline and ethanol. GM do Brasil followed two months later with the Chevrolet Corsa 1.8 Flexpower, using an engine developed by a joint-venture with Fiat called PowerTrain.

In 2004 GM do Brasil introduced the Chevrolet Astra 2.0 with a "MultiPower" engine built on flex fuel technology developed by Robert_Bosch_GmbHofBrazil.

Edited May 29, 2013 by VocalNeal

[commande]

I appreciate that your trying to get the right information but you have to go further back in time to before Chevrolets existence....

==========================================================================================================

The first commercial flexible fuel vehicle was the Ford Model T, produced from 1908 through 1927. It was fitted with a carburetor with adjustable jetting, allowing use of gasoline or ethanol, or a combination of both.^[56][57][58] Other car manufactures also provided engines for ethanol fuel use.^[15]Henry Ford continued to advocate for ethanol as fuel even during the prohibition. However, cheaper oil caused gasoline to prevail, until the 1973 oil crisis resulted in gasoline shortages and awareness on the dangers of oil dependence. This crisis opened a new opportunity for ethanol and other alternative fuels, such as methanol, gaseous fuels such as CNG and LPG, and also hydrogen.^[10][15] Ethanol, methanol and natural gas CNG were the three alternative fuels that received more attention for research and development, and government support.

Edited May 29, 2013 by commande

[VocalNeal]

Would actually be interesting to see a bike engine with Flexfuel technology not that it would really add any performance but being able to burn any fuel you want is a pretty nice concept.

Sorry Brazil again.

The Honda CG 150 Titan Mix was the first flex-fuel motorcycle sold in the world. The fuel gauge has a warning mix light indicating the minimum gasoline blend required to avoid coldstart problems.

The last sentence is interesting to me as the VW Gol Flex has a small, washer bottle sized, gas tank under the hood for cold starting. This small gas tank even has its own low fuel warning light.

[commande]

Okay you finally got me LOL - - This is definitely the first time I have ever heard of a Flexfuel motorbike. Very interesting.