Harsh Judgment Of Thai People

[Scully]

I have spent time in a slum in Klong toey for a while, was not even room to stretch out, lovely family however.

Have known some nice rich Thais.

Have known good and bad from all walks of life, all i'm saying is judge them by their actions and never pre judge them as though a thai can never be trusted.

That does not mean being foolish with your level of trust but treat them as you would treat anyone.

I know a hard working Thai bloke who has just been conned out of 50k and a car by a Thai woman that was already married.

I will not repeat what he thinks of Thai women, personally I know they are all different, but get stung by one and people tend to judge them all as the same.

My ex girlfriend was lovely, never wanted much, couldn't of asked for a nicer girl, shame the same couldn't be said about her mother.

[cornishcarlos]

Keep hearing this word "Class". I think anyone one half a brain knows that it doesnt matter how much money you have or what circles you move in, people are people. Some good, some bad. Driving round in Jaguar's and eating caviar does not make someone a better person than someone that rides around on a bicycle and eats somtam.

Morale values and actions make a person, nothing else!

If you read all the posts, you would know that the poster who bought up 'class' was referring to a persons moral values rather than their wealth value. He did make that quite clear.

Someone else twisted it to justify calling the OP elitist.. Gotta love peoples interpretations of posts

[jvs]

Would it be a generalization to say over 95% of all the people in the world are probably hard working people who are trying to do the best they can?

[soi41]

Funny thing is that the subjects of this discussion, the Thais, couldn't give a rats arse about, what you and I think about them. They have been breastfed with, just being Thai, no matter from what layer of society, that they are superior to any of us!

How many of you can honestly say, that you have real Thai friends ? Yes I have plenty of Thais, that I exchange pleasantaries with, but I doubt very much, any of them would get out of their way if I really needed help from a friend. I am fine with that, just as long as we are aware of this is a reality here!

[Star Dust]

Let the people be people....

They beat me, robbed me, stole from me, locked me up, lied to me, loved me, welcomed me, pissed me off, gave me a beautiful son, fed me, sheltered me, thought me many good and bad things.........but after all....

Home is where my heart is, and that's Thailand.

Thailand rocks, and I miss it.

[JLCrab]

Sadly not all Thai woman look like supermodels so if you care for looks it will take time to find the right one. Then you add the right personality to the looks and you end up with a near impossible event

You don't find these women; they find you.

[EBlair48]

Well when one experiences nothing but a xenophobic, racist, lying, scamming populace ... I think it is perfectly OK to form such an opinion, and even acceptable to state it.

I think ( IMO ) a lot of posters who are raving about Thais are really so sexually satiated they are incapable of objective opinion.

Also, if a Thai partner is out in front, dealing with day to day hassles such as uncounted paper chases for business, WP and visa, consider you might not have an informed opinion on realities for foreigners here.

I recently saw Voranai Vanijaka speak ( US educated columnist for Bangkok Post ) he has always come off to me as supremely rational in his column but hearing him speak , I realized he's just as racist and prone to anti-foreigner idiocies as any other Thai.

" They are stealing the land " he claimed.

(He also is a raving Yellow shirt which earns no respect from me. )

Edited May 18, 2013 by EBlair48

[Vinny1967]

My generalisation of thai people is that they're all bloody deaf

[pattayadingo]

I have met some great families around Thailand. friendly, helpful, polite and generous.

I've had mothers bringing me fruit and food and even give me a massage when suffering back pain. Calling round just to make sure I was okay - even though they could not speak English.

I've drunk many a beer sat outside on an evening with families too and we all supplied the beers and snacks. Food cooked and served too.

Great times.

The only drawback in each case has been the daughter(s). They started out great, same as the families until the peer pressure started and they began to give in to that.

Some families had no idea why I simply got up and walked away. Others were informed and I could still go back to them now, have a few beers, food and a laugh or two.

No, they are not all money grabbing, selfish or mean people. Many Thais are friendly and caring.

[EBlair48]

Right. Look in the society pages and tell me how in how many Thai family or business functions farang are hanging out in the pics, unless of course, they are huge investors.

These hi so women do not marry outside their heritage unless it's for business.

I call that snotty.

Funny thing is that the subjects of this discussion, the Thais, couldn't give a rats arse about, what you and I think about them. They have been breastfed with, just being Thai, no matter from what layer of society, that they are superior to any of us!

How many of you can honestly say, that you have real Thai friends ? Yes I have plenty of Thais, that I exchange pleasantaries with, but I doubt very much, any of them would get out of their way if I really needed help from a friend. I am fine with that, just as long as we are aware of this is a reality here!

[EBlair48]

Also, living outside these areas doesn't mean 'high class' just more people doing an honest days work, with a solid upbringing.

Obviously there are always bad apples everywhere but you can decide whether you want to live in the barrel or the orchard (that didn't make sense but I'm sticking with it)

-

Actually it does make a lot of sense, great metaphor!

I like picking my fruit straight from the tree where it's freshest, not buying it shrink-wrapped in the supermarket, most likely having first been drenched in poisonous chemicals, sitting on the shelf a long time, maybe even rotten to the core no matter how nice it seems on the outside.

Works for me. . .

And let's continue the metaphor.

Say,.... your fruit looks good as it's been gassed. And it too, has a lot of pesticide, even one the farmer bought out of the back of a truck last winter, that was smuggled in from China, a corrupted Customs offcr made out nicely.

Buy you'd never know as the libel laws prevent any kind of real information getting to consumers about dangers of pesticide misuse.

So, are you in the barrel, in the orchard, or really in an over processed jar of sugared sauce?

[Salapoo]

Wonder if he feels better now.

Some people just aren't able to handle other's opinions without freaking out.

[muythai2013]

Funny thing is that the subjects of this discussion, the Thais, couldn't give a rats arse about, what you and I think about them. They have been breastfed with, just being Thai, no matter from what layer of society, that they are superior to any of us!

How many of you can honestly say, that you have real Thai friends ? Yes I have plenty of Thais, that I exchange pleasantaries with, but I doubt very much, any of them would get out of their way if I really needed help from a friend. I am fine with that, just as long as we are aware of this is a reality here!

your reality as you yourself don't have real thai friends, and because of that you think it's not possible.

I have had Thai friends do things for me I will never forget, others I would rather forget.

I will never be rich, it does not mean I sit here and say being rich is not possible for others just because i'm failing.

[muythai2013]

Well when one experiences nothing but a xenophobic, racist, lying, scamming populace ... I think it is perfectly OK to form such an opinion, and even acceptable to state it.

I think ( IMO ) a lot of posters who are raving about Thais are really so sexually satiated they are incapable of objective opinion.

Also, if a Thai partner is out in front, dealing with day to day hassles such as uncounted paper chases for business, WP and visa, consider you might not have an informed opinion on realities for foreigners here.

I recently saw Voranai Vanijaka speak ( US educated columnist for Bangkok Post ) he has always come off to me as supremely rational in his column but hearing him speak , I realized he's just as racist and prone to anti-foreigner idiocies as any other Thai.

" They are stealing the land " he claimed.

(He also is a raving Yellow shirt which earns no respect from me. )

so your saying straight out if we have bad experiences it's ok to judge all, the rant about anything sexual after that lost me, how did sex get into this.

[Salapoo]

How many of you can honestly say, that you have real Thai friends ?

I'm sure they're are plenty.

But they will just be too Western (or new) to really understand the truth.

[scorecard]

You complain about generalisations......

Then produce this comment...

"their certainly are a lot of people best avoided"

And look who's calling the kettle black!!!

[cornishcarlos]

Also, living outside these areas doesn't mean 'high class' just more people doing an honest days work, with a solid upbringing.

Obviously there are always bad apples everywhere but you can decide whether you want to live in the barrel or the orchard (that didn't make sense but I'm sticking with it)

-

Actually it does make a lot of sense, great metaphor!

I like picking my fruit straight from the tree where it's freshest, not buying it shrink-wrapped in the supermarket, most likely having first been drenched in poisonous chemicals, sitting on the shelf a long time, maybe even rotten to the core no matter how nice it seems on the outside.

Works for me. . .

And let's continue the metaphor.

Say,.... your fruit looks good as it's been gassed. And it too, has a lot of pesticide, even one the farmer bought out of the back of a truck last winter, that was smuggled in from China, a corrupted Customs offcr made out nicely.

Buy you'd never know as the libel laws prevent any kind of real information getting to consumers about dangers of pesticide misuse.

So, are you in the barrel, in the orchard, or really in an over processed jar of sugared sauce?

Nope, didn't really get mine but you have totally lost me !!!

[EBlair48]

About how availability of companions makes for a favorable opinion. Take this variable away- and how many would still maintain favorable marks?

Isn't it really the sexual aspect of Thailand that makes it so great? So much easier to ignore the maddening aspect of the citizens ?

"...so your saying straight out if we have bad experiences it's ok to judge all, the rant about anything sexual after that lost me, how did sex get into this."

Edited May 18, 2013 by EBlair48

[EBlair48]

Also, living outside these areas doesn't mean 'high class' just more people doing an honest days work, with a solid upbringing.

Obviously there are always bad apples everywhere but you can decide whether you want to live in the barrel or the orchard (that didn't make sense but I'm sticking with it)

-

Actually it does make a lot of sense, great metaphor!

I like picking my fruit straight from the tree where it's freshest, not buying it shrink-wrapped in the supermarket, most likely having first been drenched in poisonous chemicals, sitting on the shelf a long time, maybe even rotten to the core no matter how nice it seems on the outside.

Works for me. . .

And let's continue the metaphor.

Say,.... your fruit looks good as it's been gassed. And it too, has a lot of pesticide, even one the farmer bought out of the back of a truck last winter, that was smuggled in from China, a corrupted Customs offcr made out nicely.

Buy you'd never know as the libel laws prevent any kind of real information getting to consumers about dangers of pesticide misuse.

So, are you in the barrel, in the orchard, or really in an over processed jar of sugared sauce?

Nope, didn't really get mine but you have totally lost me !!!

The fruit is a lie. It's unhealthy, loaded with sugar and chemicals, but it looks nice .

[PalMan]

EBlair48, on 18 May 2013 - 17:07, said:

And let's continue the metaphor.

Say,.... your fruit looks good as it's been gassed. And it too, has a lot of pesticide, even one the farmer bought out of the back of a truck last winter, that was smuggled in from China, a corrupted Customs offcr made out nicely.

Buy you'd never know as the libel laws prevent any kind of real information getting to consumers about dangers of pesticide misuse.

So, are you in the barrel, in the orchard, or really in an over processed jar of sugared sauce?

=

That's why you have to pick your fruit directly from the tree. Next best is personally knowing the farmer. A distant third is knowing you can visit and inspect the farm and do due diligence on the methods used there.

Not possible to know what you're getting with a modern global-capitalist-style supply chain, need to strive to reform your own life around more trustworthy and sustainable models.

[cornishcarlos]

EBlair48, on 18 May 2013 - 17:07, said:

And let's continue the metaphor.

Say,.... your fruit looks good as it's been gassed. And it too, has a lot of pesticide, even one the farmer bought out of the back of a truck last winter, that was smuggled in from China, a corrupted Customs offcr made out nicely.

Buy you'd never know as the libel laws prevent any kind of real information getting to consumers about dangers of pesticide misuse.

So, are you in the barrel, in the orchard, or really in an over processed jar of sugared sauce?

=

That's why you have to pick your fruit directly from the tree. Next best is personally knowing the farmer. A distant third is knowing you can visit and inspect the farm and do due diligence on the methods used there.

Not possible to know what you're getting with a modern global-capitalist-style supply chain, need to strive to reform your own life around more trustworthy and sustainable models.

Right, gotcha...

That is why I live in the orchard, not the supermarket.

Plus I eat eggs right out the ducks, but my ducks are 'different'

[PalMan]

EBlair48, on 18 May 2013 - 17:40, said:

About how avaialbilty of companions makes for a favorable opinion. Take this variable away- and how many would still maintain favorable marks?

Isn't it really the sexual aspect of Thailand that makes it so great?

A safe and pleasant lifestyle at low costs, nice food, nice people, lots of other reasons.

But for sure if they made it illegal for older foreigners to hook up with young Thais, I'm pretty sure there would be much fewer of us here. Such a move would greatly improve the reputation of the country - might take a few decades to really take effect though.

And the financial impact would be minuscule other than tourist spots and a few thousand upcountry villages, most foreigners greatly overestimate our contributions to the economy from a macro POV, also need to realize that our raising peasant families above "their place" is seen by TPTB here as a negative, not a positive.

So this would actually be a great idea for Thailand - which in itself pretty much guarantees it will never happen.

[maccaroni man]

this makes me think back to times before the great financial melt down when all i heard all day long was "the Thai way" finally a group of my mates got together and we tried to understand exactly what that meant. we concluded; lie,cheat and steal. This is not the way for all Thais but it did make me realize while living in Thailand with all the wonderment it has to offer which makes it easy to be careless that I still needed to stay alert and apply a little western common sence; "buyer beware" if I did not want to fall on the hard times of the many who did not.

Edited May 18, 2013 by maccaroni man

[muythai2013]

About how availability of companions makes for a favorable opinion. Take this variable away- and how many would still maintain favorable marks?

Isn't it really the sexual aspect of Thailand that makes it so great? So much easier to ignore the maddening aspect of the citizens ?

"...so your saying straight out if we have bad experiences it's ok to judge all, the rant about anything sexual after that lost me, how did sex get into this."

never had a problem with woman at home, so again although tis applys to many, again not all.

[mca]

And some people are always banging on about how slowly things happen in Thailand. Take a book and some snacks with you.

I did that at my wedding. All that chanting went on forever so I opened a copy of Razzle's Reader's Wives and made some cheese on toast. The officiating abbot was not happy let me tell you.......

[robblok]

Groups of people create their own prejudices, look at Israeli and Russian tourists who are the most annoying in the world. Look at the Dutch wearing rags as if they can't afford better and try to bargain on a 20b songteaw drive just cuz Lonely Planet told them 'you must try to bargain everywhere' (me have seen several of this funny types try to bargain on a songtaew ride, LOL) look at naïve Japanese who are easy victims for street scammers like fake police fining them. There are a lot of prejudices about Thai that are simply true, no need to deny, also no need to think they are all the sam because they aren't. Perhaps if you deal with certain groups, like Pattaya bargirls, Pukeket tuktukdrivers, all kinds op people working with tourists, unskilled workers who build your house, yes then there is a very big chance for repeating experiences, like everywhere on the world.

You forgot the ever drunk English.. if we are steriotyping why not go on. Ah and don't forget the Yanks always asking how to get firearms here. ect ect.

[thaicbr]

EBlair48, on 18 May 2013 - 17:07, said:

And let's continue the metaphor.

Say,.... your fruit looks good as it's been gassed. And it too, has a lot of pesticide, even one the farmer bought out of the back of a truck last winter, that was smuggled in from China, a corrupted Customs offcr made out nicely.

Buy you'd never know as the libel laws prevent any kind of real information getting to consumers about dangers of pesticide misuse.

So, are you in the barrel, in the orchard, or really in an over processed jar of sugared sauce?

=

That's why you have to pick your fruit directly from the tree. Next best is personally knowing the farmer. A distant third is knowing you can visit and inspect the farm and do due diligence on the methods used there.

Not possible to know what you're getting with a modern global-capitalist-style supply chain, need to strive to reform your own life around more trustworthy and sustainable models.

 

Right, gotcha...

That is why I live in the orchard, not the supermarket.

Plus I eat eggs right out the ducks, but my ducks are 'different'

I hope you cook the eggs first..

I have this image of you laying on the ground with a duck laying an egg in ya mouth.. yum yum:lol:

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[PalMan]

robblok, on 18 May 2013 - 20:25, said:

You forgot the ever drunk English.. if we are steriotyping why not go on. Ah and don't forget the Yanks always asking how to get firearms here. ect ect.

Well I'm half British and half American, and like to get right pissed and then go shooting so there.

[kevvy]

no matter what country you lived in expats would bash the locals . I know many local people and they are great and treat me very good and the ones close to me (friends) treat me as a part of the family. Just the same as my home country ... .good and bad

[PaullyW]

Unfortunately the kinds of people most visitors encounter in the kingdom are on average much lower down the scale of human values than normal Thai people.

This "first impression" factor colors the views of many of us forever after.

Learning the language and associating with a better "class" of Thais - in my case on a moral scale, not social/economic - will certainly improve the reality, but the perception can usually only be changed by conscious work on on our own frame of mind.

Which very few people bother to do, much easier to stick to the default heuristics acquired in the early stages.

But well worth the effort if you're going to stick around for a while and prefer to be surrounded by honest sincere and hardworking people - which the majority of Thais surely are.

I'm afraid I find your comments rather elitist and derogatory towards large proportions of Thais as well as visitors to the kingdom. While you make some valid points, the manner in which you have done so implies that you are elite, mixing with elite Thais, and the rest of us (both Thai and visitor) are merely members of the unwashed masses.

I live in Pattaya/Jomtiem - does that mean I'm mixing with lower "classes" (I hate that word by the way) because of where I live and because of the history of the place? Are you implying that by default, only low class Thais live and work here or is only visited by low class foreigners?

Elitism is in the same league as bigotry, which the OP is pointing out is not a valid point of view for most right thinking people in regard to Thailand and the Thai people.

I agree in parts with the OP..

There are always going to be insecure people that accuse anyone who lives outside the major tourist areas, with nice hardworking and honest Thais, as being elitist.

Living in Pattaya means you are living with a much higher ratio of people looking to relieve you of your money, through whichever means they can. Doesn't mean they are 'lower class', some high class con artists too.

Also, living outside these areas doesn't mean 'high class' just more people doing an honest days work, with a solid upbringing.

Obviously there are always bad apples everywhere but you can decide whether you want to live in the barrel or the orchard (that didn't make sense but I'm sticking with it)

Ok, I'm ready for the backlash... Bring it on

I'd love to counter your argument but unfortunately have to help my wife prepare for a celebratory party at home this evening. Running through the guest list which is 70% Thai, I find myself trying to categorise them as to class - nope, can't do it. They're all hard working honest people who have become good friends and have helped me tremendously. Must be the only 20 or so honest Thais in Pattaya.

Actually, I think one thing we keep missing -- Westerners, in particular -- is the effect of in-group vs out-group in Asian societies (including Thai, of course).

Of course they are nice to you because you are in their in-group. However, if encountered them having not been accepted into their in-group, you mind find that your experience would be quite different with some of them.

Thais are terribly nice to people who they *must* be nice to, in general. They generally treat others, including each other, however, with complete and utter disregard.

Haven't you noticed?