Harsh Judgment Of Thai People

[Salapoo]

Harsh Judgment Of Thai People

On a Thai expat internet forum?

I find that hard to believe.

If only Thais were like everyone back home, we'd al be happy, eh.

[PalMan]

Actually, I think one thing we keep missing -- Westerners, in particular -- is the effect of in-group vs out-group in Asian societies (including Thai, of course).

Of course they are nice to you because you are in their in-group. However, if encountered them having not been accepted into their in-group, you mind find that your experience would be quite different with some of them.

Thais are terribly nice to people who they *must* be nice to, in general. They generally treat others, including each other, however, with complete and utter disregard.

Haven't you noticed?

-

As usual there is some validity to what you're saying, you point out some underlying cultural differences there regarding reciprocity networks etc, the historical impact of Christian values on superficial social interactions.

However in my experience in dealing with normal common Thais (poor rural folk) outside of foreigner-infested areas and with no commercial motivation, I find them to be much friendlier, welcoming kind etc to foreign strangers than the average person back home, much more willing to accept them into their lives and willing to build a close relationship from scratch.

It is possible that they are only doing this due to my perceived wealth and their relative poverty, but I don't think so, I honestly think the difference is a cultural one.

I completely admit that the smaller percentage of wealthier urban Thais, particularly the Thai-Chinese are just as if not more rough, too-busy-too-bother and suspicious as the average westerner, but to me these aren't the "true Thais".

[Thai at Heart]

When push comes to shove, unless you are really good friends with people, the general rule is that you are just a farang.

Building genuine friendships in Thailand is very difficult not least because of the language. Throw in a bit of nationalism and after 18 years, genuine friends I can count on one finger.

Family is more complicated, but largely the same.

[rsokolowski]

The world would be a better place if everyone was judged on their actions and the content of their character and not by what race, sex, or color of skin they have. Someone else said it much better.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by their character."

Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech, August 28, 1963

[cgphuket]

Yes, the OP is right, but you will never convince the barstool warriors who have never might a thai person that they wernt paying for, what thai people are like. Fun how that crowd assumes everyone has the same experience as them and then will argue to the death that they know more about your life than you do...

[Roadman]

Unfortunately the kinds of people most visitors encounter in the kingdom are on average much lower down the scale of human values than normal Thai people.

This "first impression" factor colors the views of many of us forever after.

Learning the language and associating with a better "class" of Thais - in my case on a moral scale, not social/economic - will certainly improve the reality, but the perception can usually only be changed by conscious work on on our own frame of mind.

Which very few people bother to do, much easier to stick to the default heuristics acquired in the early stages.

But well worth the effort if you're going to stick around for a while and prefer to be surrounded by honest sincere and hardworking people - which the majority of Thais surely are.

I'm afraid I find your comments rather elitist and derogatory towards large proportions of Thais as well as visitors to the kingdom. While you make some valid points, the manner in which you have done so implies that you are elite, mixing with elite Thais, and the rest of us (both Thai and visitor) are merely members of the unwashed masses.

I live in Pattaya/Jomtiem - does that mean I'm mixing with lower "classes" (I hate that word by the way) because of where I live and because of the history of the place? Are you implying that by default, only low class Thais live and work here or is only visited by low class foreigners?

Elitism is in the same league as bigotry, which the OP is pointing out is not a valid point of view for most right thinking people in regard to Thailand and the Thai people.

I agree in parts with the OP..

There are always going to be insecure people that accuse anyone who lives outside the major tourist areas, with nice hardworking and honest Thais, as being elitist.

Living in Pattaya means you are living with a much higher ratio of people looking to relieve you of your money, through whichever means they can. Doesn't mean they are 'lower class', some high class con artists too.

Also, living outside these areas doesn't mean 'high class' just more people doing an honest days work, with a solid upbringing.

Obviously there are always bad apples everywhere but you can decide whether you want to live in the barrel or the orchard (that didn't make sense but I'm sticking with it)

Ok, I'm ready for the backlash... Bring it on

I'd love to counter your argument but unfortunately have to help my wife prepare for a celebratory party at home this evening. Running through the guest list which is 70% Thai, I find myself trying to categorise them as to class - nope, can't do it. They're all hard working honest people who have become good friends and have helped me tremendously. Must be the only 20 or so honest Thais in Pattaya.

Ummmm...how are you going to counter the discussion when by putting in the word honest (twice no less) you are agreeing with the poster?

[toybits]

To the OP - It really depends on the crowd of people you hang out with. If it is the Pattaya type of people, then you develop an opinion based on your interaction with those people. Unfortunately for you, that opinion will probably be so skewed that you get the wrong picture of what Thai people are really like. That's the Problem. Many TV members do not really know the real Thai people (outside of Pattaya, Patong, Phuket, Soi Nana and Patpong) because they are so afraid of interacting with them.

Many TV members probably cannot carry on a conversation with a fruit vendor or a noodle stall owner. How can they expect to learn about what Thais think when they cannot communicate with Thais?

[PalMan]

The world would be a better place if everyone was judged on their actions and the content of their character and not by what race, sex, or color of skin they have. Someone else said it much better.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by their character."

Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech, August 28, 1963

-

But being able to accurately judge people's character - by their "fruit", observing the results of their actions, consistent patterns over time, the quality of their relationships with other - requires living with them together in a relatively small community and being at least some extent part of that community over a period of time.

Modern urban life even within a single language and culture allows people to "re-invent" themselves, every year or even every month if they like, ensuring they never come in contact with people that really know them to that extent.

This is even more so the life of international travelers and people from different languages and cultures working in industries servicing them.

So truly "getting to know real Thai people" requires a major compromise, a change in lifestyle and commitment to place, learning the language, that 90% of even long-term visitors to the LoS are never going to be willing to make.

We make our beds and then we have to lie in them.

[PaullyW]

To the OP - It really depends on the crowd of people you hang out with. If it is the Pattaya type of people, then you develop an opinion based on your interaction with those people. Unfortunately for you, that opinion will probably be so skewed that you get the wrong picture of what Thai people are really like. That's the Problem. Many TV members do not really know the real Thai people (outside of Pattaya, Patong, Phuket, Soi Nana and Patpong) because they are so afraid of interacting with them.

Many TV members probably cannot carry on a conversation with a fruit vendor or a noodle stall owner. How can they expect to learn about what Thais think when they cannot communicate with Thais?

And, if they could speak to the fruit vendor, they might genuinely wish they'd not spent a considerable portion of their lives learning a language of use nowhere else to discuss gossip, completely illogical nonsense, and food 90%+ of the time... They might be further disappointed when they they try to discuss 'sensitive' topics of politics, religion, family, right vs. wrong, or anything which requires thought and reflection and realise that 1) there is nearly nobody to discuss those topics with in their new, shiny language and 2) when they do find someone who they think is a good candidate the person, despite his academic credentials and foreign experiences and elite background, simply can't discuss anything that is 'unpleasant'. Culture, y'know?

Edited May 24, 2013 by PaullyW

[cgphuket]

I know more Thai people than farang, but I have seen more bad farang than Thai people. go figure.

[benalibina]

I know more Thai people than farang, but I have seen more bad farang than Thai people. go figure.

What do you try to say with this ?

[soi41]

I know more Thai people than farang, but I have seen more bad farang than Thai people. go figure.

Another member of MTTT ! (more thai than thai)

[ozziebloke]

I know more Thai people than farang, but I have seen more bad farang than Thai people. go figure.

Another member of MTTT ! (more thai than thai)

I don't know about you but being in Thailand wouldn't it make sence of the statement "I know more Thai people than farang, but I have seen more bad farang than Thai people." especially if you live in or near one of the tourist spots of Thailand? And on a off topic, is the posters who need to post slogans like yourself "Another member of MTTT ! (more thai than thai)" or this HUB that HUB these are really getting boring in topics!

[seajae]

yes it happens but it also takes time to accept the way people are here. Yesterday we went to Tesco, parked the car and was walking across the pedestrian area across the road when another car came flying around the corner into the car parking area, dont know if it was male or female driving as it had reflective crap on the all the windows so you cannot see in(illegal in most countries). I looked at where the driver should be sitting as they screeched to a halt almost hitting me and shook my head, my wife had a go at me and said I was deliberately trying to cause problems? by looking at the person driving, it would cause them to loose face. It seems that thai people have an arrogant streak(face) and that no one is allowed to make them feel as though they are wrong, when you can tell me how everyone else should accept this and act differently towards it I will accept that thais are not arrogant. The ball is now in their court but I do accept that most thais are nice people generally

[Salapoo]

Perhaps those making harsh judgements about Thai people can understand Thai so actually understand what the average Thai thinks and says about them.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Salapoo

[Salapoo]

my wife had a go at me and said I was deliberately trying to cause problems? by looking at the person driving, it would cause them to loose face. It seems that thai people have an arrogant streak(face) and that no one is allowed to make them feel as though they are wrong, when you can tell me how everyone else should accept this and act differently towards it I will accept that thais are not arrogant. The ball is now in their court but I do accept that most thais are nice people generally

A Thai being completely wrong, lying, almost killing you through stupidty... "mai pen rai".

Pointing out that a Thai is completely wrong, lying, almost killed you through stupidty... "you very bad person, you bad bad man. You do that they kill you."

Beautiful Buddhist society, isn't it.

[PaullyW]

my wife had a go at me and said I was deliberately trying to cause problems? by looking at the person driving, it would cause them to loose face. It seems that thai people have an arrogant streak(face) and that no one is allowed to make them feel as though they are wrong, when you can tell me how everyone else should accept this and act differently towards it I will accept that thais are not arrogant. The ball is now in their court but I do accept that most thais are nice people generally

A Thai being completely wrong, lying, almost killing you through stupidty... "mai pen rai".

Pointing out that a Thai is completely wrong, lying, almost killed you through stupidty... "you very bad person, you bad bad man. You do that they kill you."

Beautiful Buddhist society, isn't it.

They're full of sh!t, most of the time. They do have little to live for -- believing that they will come back, so they are dangerous. So, we have to leave them alone most of the time as we have much more to lose, or think we do.

[jimlek]

I agree with you&think,many expats should go home.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Salapoo]

my wife had a go at me and said I was deliberately trying to cause problems? by looking at the person driving, it would cause them to loose face. It seems that thai people have an arrogant streak(face) and that no one is allowed to make them feel as though they are wrong, when you can tell me how everyone else should accept this and act differently towards it I will accept that thais are not arrogant. The ball is now in their court but I do accept that most thais are nice people generally

A Thai being completely wrong, lying, almost killing you through stupidty... "mai pen rai".

Pointing out that a Thai is completely wrong, lying, almost killed you through stupidty... "you very bad person, you bad bad man. You do that they kill you."

Beautiful Buddhist society, isn't it.

They're full of sh!t, most of the time. They do have little to live for -- believing that they will come back, so they are dangerous. So, we have to leave them alone most of the time as we have much more to lose, or think we do.

A wounded Thai is a dangerous animal.

Unfortunately many become wounded simply by being around a farang.

I agree with you&think,many expats should go home.

I agree completely, unfortunately it's a lot of fun here, like living in Fawlty Towers, set in jungle, white sand paradise.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Salapoo

[kikoman]

I totally agree with the OP, I have been in a great number of exchanges with other TV members because I Love Thailand and Thai people. I have chosen mostly to associate with our village people and my wife's family. Over the years I have met a handful of Expats that I greatly enjoyed their company and conversation, about the activities we enjoy.

But for the most part I steer clear of Expats as I find most very negative, and only want to discuss their dislike of Thailand and its people.

I do not have the time or energy to associate with negative people.

I have most of the friends I need here in the village, except for the village drunk that is "best to be avoided", all my neighbor are good, honest, caring and sharing people, that I have grown very close to in the last decade.

Cheers:

[Dancealot]

You complain about generalisations......

Then produce this comment...

"their certainly are a lot of people best avoided"

And within here lies the key. I automatically avoid negativism.

[Tchooptip]

my wife had a go at me and said I was deliberately trying to cause problems? by looking at the person driving, it would cause them to loose face. It seems that thai people have an arrogant streak(face) and that no one is allowed to make them feel as though they are wrong, when you can tell me how everyone else should accept this and act differently towards it I will accept that thais are not arrogant. The ball is now in their court but I do accept that most thais are nice people generally

A Thai being completely wrong, lying, almost killing you through stupidty... "mai pen rai".

Pointing out that a Thai is completely wrong, lying, almost killed you through stupidty... "you very bad person, you bad bad man. You do that they kill you."

Beautiful Buddhist society, isn't it.

I understand your feelings very well but believe me it has absolutely nothing to do with Buddhism, by the way the practising Buddhists certainly do not behaved like that, US is supposed to be a Christian country does that means there is no murders robberies or violence in the country , a few centuries ago inquisition in Spain in the name of Christ LOL .You should read a few Buddhist texts and compare with the Bible or Coran, so maybe you will understand its human nature, not Buddhism, even though many defined themselves as good Buddhists like the Sicilians mafiosi defined themselves as good Christians

[Tchooptip]

my wife had a go at me and said I was deliberately trying to cause problems? by looking at the person driving, it would cause them to loose face. It seems that thai people have an arrogant streak(face) and that no one is allowed to make them feel as though they are wrong, when you can tell me how everyone else should accept this and act differently towards it I will accept that thais are not arrogant. The ball is now in their court but I do accept that most thais are nice people generally

A Thai being completely wrong, lying, almost killing you through stupidty... "mai pen rai".

Pointing out that a Thai is completely wrong, lying, almost killed you through stupidty... "you very bad person, you bad bad man. You do that they kill you."

Beautiful Buddhist society, isn't it.

I understand your feelings very well but believe me it has absolutely nothing to do with Buddhism, by the way the practising Buddhists certainly do not behaved like that, US is supposed to be a Christian country does that means there is no murders robberies or violence in the country , a few centuries ago inquisition in Spain in the name of Christ LOL .You should read a few Buddhist texts and compare with the Bible or Coran, so maybe you will understand its human nature, not Buddhism, even though many defined themselves as good Buddhists like the Sicilians mafiosi defined themselves as good Christians

I could have add:"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Mahatma Gandhi. Why not read it (sometime) as I like your Buddha, I do not like your Buddhists. Your Buddhists are so unlike your Buddha...Up to you

[rene123]

I try not to generalize other than with basic things such as there are differences between urban and rural environments. I try to take each person as an individual with the understanding that their upbringing will have affected them. Some people are enjoyable to be around; others aren't. I have very little in common with some hill tribe person other than maybe a love for the environment.

[GottaGo]

A very wise man wrote:

Perception is a mirror not a fact. And what I look on is my state of mind, reflected outward.

[NeverSure]

I have met some great families around Thailand. friendly, helpful, polite and generous.

I've had mothers bringing me fruit and food and even give me a massage when suffering back pain. Calling round just to make sure I was okay - even though they could not speak English.

I've drunk many a beer sat outside on an evening with families too and we all supplied the beers and snacks. Food cooked and served too.

Great times.

The only drawback in each case has been the daughter(s). They started out great, same as the families until the peer pressure started and they began to give in to that.

Some families had no idea why I simply got up and walked away. Others were informed and I could still go back to them now, have a few beers, food and a laugh or two.

No, they are not all money grabbing, selfish or mean people. Many Thais are friendly and caring.

Nice post. I don't know the answers. My experience is not scientific, but I was treated much better in rural Isaan in April than I have been in "touristy" areas. Is it possible that 1. The ripoff prone Thais gravitate toward tourist areas and 2. The farangs who hang around tourist areas aren't on average the classiest of the bunch in their own behavior? Of course many are very nice, but I've seen the worst of farangs in those areas, myself.

Just wondering.

[geriatrickid]

Sadly not all Thai woman look like supermodels so if you care for looks it will take time to find the right one. Then you add the right personality to the looks and you end up with a near impossible event

Are you a fatty feeder?

The Pattaya Daily News ran an educational article about such people.

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/06/09/fatty-feeders-fuelling-the-morbidly-obese/

[geriatrickid]

I try not to generalize other than with basic things such as there are differences between urban and rural environments. I try to take each person as an individual with the understanding that their upbringing will have affected them. Some people are enjoyable to be around; others aren't. I have very little in common with some hill tribe person other than maybe a love for the environment.

Pish posh. A shirtless young buck would make you go weak in your knees. You would find something in common, quickly, just like all the others that have fallen for the seductive powers these people have.

[thaicbr]

I try not to generalize other than with basic things such as there are differences between urban and rural environments.   I try to take each person as an individual with the understanding that their upbringing will have affected them. Some people are enjoyable to be around; others aren't. I have very little in common with some hill tribe person other than maybe a love for the environment.

Pish posh. A shirtless young buck would make you go weak in your knees.  You would find something in common, quickly, just like all the others that have fallen for the seductive powers these people have. 

Personally from what I have seen and heard about hill tribe people. I think I would have MORE in common. They at least seem to have some common sense. If they take a small baby on a motorcycle they generally have it in a carry papoose not just hanging of the seat being held in one hand

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[rene123]

I have met some great families around Thailand. friendly, helpful, polite and generous.

I've had mothers bringing me fruit and food and even give me a massage when suffering back pain. Calling round just to make sure I was okay - even though they could not speak English.

I've drunk many a beer sat outside on an evening with families too and we all supplied the beers and snacks. Food cooked and served too.

Great times.

The only drawback in each case has been the daughter(s). They started out great, same as the families until the peer pressure started and they began to give in to that.

Some families had no idea why I simply got up and walked away. Others were informed and I could still go back to them now, have a few beers, food and a laugh or two.

No, they are not all money grabbing, selfish or mean people. Many Thais are friendly and caring.

Nice post. I don't know the answers. My experience is not scientific, but I was treated much better in rural Isaan in April than I have been in "touristy" areas. Is it possible that 1. The ripoff prone Thais gravitate toward tourist areas and 2. The farangs who hang around tourist areas aren't on average the classiest of the bunch in their own behavior? Of course many are very nice, but I've seen the worst of farangs in those areas, myself.

Just wondering.

I think Neversure hit the nail o the head. It stands to reason that scammers will gravitate to areas with increased possibilities. They aren't going to find many "marks" in a rural village. The party going farang crowd aren't going to spend their time in rural villages either. It can be fun when everyone understands the game and that there aren't any rules. A little bit of danger adds spice to the game. That is why a lot of us enjoy riding motorbikes when a car is safer and more comfortable.

It is also true for the womanizers. They are going to spend most of their time where there a lots of women to choose from. And, because there are many potential clients, then that is where the women go as well. It is just like a market for anything... everyone brings their "produce" to market, except in this case they aren't selling chicken and eggs.

I also think it is a fallacy that there are a high percentage of beautiful women in Thailand when compared to other countries. I see a lot of very plain or rather homely looking Thai women. That doesn't mean they aren't nice people, though. When I walked through the open bar area of Pattaya I saw very few of what I would call "visually attractive" women. The really pretty ones were standing in front of the closed door bars where I imagine some sort of sex scene was going on.