Can We Learn From The Success Of Singapore?: Thai Editorial

[Thai at Heart]

Neversure, once more and I'll type slowly,

The article suggests in it's conclusion, that economic growth will come if Thailand follows Singapores non partisan political structure.

<<If Thailand is ever to catch up with Singapore, a change in attitude is

essential. Thai politicians and citizens must come to terms with their

differences and set a course, as Singapore has done, based on a

non-partisan vision - entirely for the sake of the nation.>>

The problem is, there is severe partisan politics, just that if you disagree, you won't get anything from the government,

So the writer is clearly wrong,

I also believe Thailand can't emulate Singapore, because it's a city state, that always a huge number of socio-economic structures to be put in place simply and easily, it far harder to give equality of services in a large country like Thailand/Australia/Malaysia etc, than it is in a city state, city states by the very nature of the geographical structure, are far easier to manage, and control.

To ignore these points is to accept a joke of an article.

In practical terms Thailand shouldn't blindly follow Singapore, but take the best bits, use them to find away to get ahead of Singapore. Edited May 22, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[mrtoad]

There would have to be massive changes in law and order, police, military, politics, corruption, immigration, education, collaboration ! aspiration, leadership for them to learn anything. While they continue to have corrupt political dinosaurs and thugs running the country, there really isn't much hope. A massive sea change required, which will takes years to be established.

[Bagwan]

As long as there are moronic Ministers who, for example, think that they can ameliorate the effects of flooding by using a few motor boats, and 'luvvies' who have appeared in trashy soap operas can get their useless selves elected into Parliament then Thailand is only going to go in one direction - or maybe in ever decreasing circles before disappearing in it;s own fundamental orifice.

The prospect of finding and electing 600 true and honest citizens to manage the country is merely a pipe dream.

[yoshiwara]

It is interesting to consider the origination of the State of Singapore. Singapore was expelled from the Federation of Malaysia because it refused to implement laws giving special rights to the indigenous majority of the Federation.

[featography]

No, Thailand can't.

1. Singapore is ranked as the fifth least corrupt country in the world. Link. People can do business there with some assurance.

2. Singapore lowers taxes and makes doing business there easy. Thailand makes it almost impossible with protectionist policies.

3. Singapore has the rule of law. You can count, within reason, on being treated fairly by the courts. This encourages investment.

4. Thailand wants all foreign investment to be for Thais, even requiring majority Thai ownership. Singapore gave land to The Sands Casino (of Las Vegas) to build a huge casino, employ people and pay reasonable taxes. BTW the owner of The Sands is one smart businessman - a self made billionaire. You don't see him trying to build in Thailand, even though he has casinos all over the world.

5. Singapore has low import duties, as a whole.

In short, Singapore gets it and Thailand doesn't. Thailand is a closed club for the few, and Singapore is open for business.

Thailand will still be 3rd world and going through messes 30 years from now, while watching other Western-like Asian countries excel.

well put!

[kurnell]

Thailand is exactly what the rich Thais want it to be. They run the country as a business and do well out if it.

[FarangTalk]

The real question here is, do we want Thailand to become a new Singapore? Who have sold out its Asian identity, to become a copy of Western countries. Okay a very successfull copy, but oh so boring!

I would any day prefer Thailand with all her flaws and faults. I moved here to live in Asia, not a copy of my homecountry.

Still after 10 years, it still makes me happy to watch the colourfull Thai people getting on with their lives!

If you are bored in Singapore you are either skint or you're not trying hard enough.

Some amazing places to enjoy in Singapore; fantastic bars, clubs, food, blended with a myriad of different cultures. I'm never bored there.

Not to mention places of interest of which there are many that Thailand simply cannot match for quality; Universal Studios, Marina Bay Sands etc. Shopping to easily rival Bangkok. Public transport and infrastructure that puts Thailand to shame. Incredible airport.

Not bad for a tiny island nation.

[cup-O-coffee]

This truly is the best Apple and Oranges story I ever read, except the Apples think they can be Oranges. I guess that qualifies this story as the best example of Denial I ever read as well.

[Kananga]

Name some micro states that unsuccessful, pretty easy to manage something that small,

Non Partisan politics in Singapore? Get out of here, it's the PAP way or the Highway if you dare disagree, on the rare occasions a Singapore electorate has voted against the ruling party it has had many of the government services diminished.

It's the most successful benevolent hereditary dictatorship in the world. I can think of only Ghana as another fairly benevolent dictator ship during Rawlings many incarnations.

Do you have a clue how to discuss the topic which is Singapore being a leader on the world economic stage?

He's actually correct. Comparing Thailand to Singapore is like comparing an oil tanker to a jetski. Completely different. Singapore has a tiny urban population to govern and control and no land borders. A complete and utter lack of democracy has enabled a totalitarian regime to make Singapore an economic success..for the Singapore government but the cost of living for the majority of Singaporeans is extremely high. However in terms of social success Singapore is still where Thailand is in terms of rampant inequality and racism (although Singaporean tv shows and advertisments at least put a token dark skinned person in the mix). Exorbitant cost of living, high levels of control over the population, rampant immigration of foreigners which have kept wages stagnant for over a decade etc. Singapore looks good on paper and its easy for multinationals to be based there but your average Singaporean in among the most unhappy in Asia and the cost of living is spiralling. Not to mention the overcrowding as the population has swollen by 50% in the last 12 years. So it all depends on what you want to measure as success.

Can you stay on topic? This isn't about social ills. The article says "Singapore has become a leader on the global economic stage."

That's a fact. Singapore has, and it has done it with low income taxes, welcoming global business, low import taxes, not making it a private club for locals, lack of corruption in doing business, and other things.

The average per capita income in Singapore is ten times what it is in Thailand. It's more than it is in the USA. Link

If you want to start a thread about politics and conditions for the locals, that would be nice. I don't think the facts will totally back you up, but you are way off topic in any event. The question is "Can Thailand do what Singapore did economically" and the answer is no.

The average per capita income is higher than the US, but it also has the largest divide in wealth between the richest and poorest of any developed nation. The fact it is has a minute population and has a high concentration of incredibly rich people skews that data. In fact a Malaysian doing the same job in Malaysia earning a Malaysian salary has a greater purchasing power than an equivalent Singaporean due to the cost of living. The points I raised regarding this are a fact of the economic success not benefitting the majority of people. Sorry if you think I have gone off topic (I'm sure you'll get over it) but my comments are based on the impact of this so called 'economic success' and the failings it has brought with it. No need to be rude.

[Kananga]

I forgot to mention the Singapore has no capital gains tax. This really encourages investment from within Singapore. Singapore also has a maximum income tax of 18% which encourages high earners to earn there and from there.

In Thailand capital gains are taxed at ordinary income tax rates, and the rates get high progressively for high earners. This discourages investment.

They also don't have rubbish lying around everywhere that attracts Rats, Flies and Mosquitos. Singaporeans have pride in their country, something which is lacking amongst Thais.

Actually, Singapore has an army of Bangladeshis who clean up after the Singaporeans. Workers who are not entitled to the same rights as Singaporeans and Employment Pass holders under the Singapore employment act. A study was done once by LKY where he asked for a certain area to not be serviced by these workers and the litter and crap built up faster than you could say freedom of speech. The majority of Singaporeans will complain till your ear falls off about their government and country and have recently been emigrating in record numbers. Nationalism and national pride is far more prevalent in Thailand, however ignorance to environmental issues and no army of Bangladeshis means that the Thailand looks like any other large South East Asian country when it comes to rubbish.

[JCaligula]

I believe in 50 years from now Thailand will be the same as they are today.The problem with this country is it's people,the fighting culture,the attitude problem and self-conscious language which is only Thai which they proud about.No matter how you would argue,end of the day the world is in English not Thai,put aside the Japanese and the Koreans,they are proud about themselves is due to their strict rules of being Discipline,what they have that Thai's don't.It took them 30-40 years of hard work to archive what they have today same goes with Singapore since independence 40 over years ago.

Thailand will take another 50 years or maybe another century and i doubt they would excel.The only country has staged more than 20 coups and no government has exceeded the full term.What kind of Democracy is this.When ever the Thais travels to overseas especially the women,they get different impressions.

[masuk]

The real question here is, do we want Thailand to become a new Singapore? Who have sold out its Asian identity, to become a copy of Western countries. Okay a very successfull copy, but oh so boring!

I would any day prefer Thailand with all her flaws and faults. I moved here to live in Asia, not a copy of my homecountry.

Still after 10 years, it still makes me happy to watch the colourfull Thai people getting on with their lives!

If you are bored in Singapore you are either skint or you're not trying hard enough.

Some amazing places to enjoy in Singapore; fantastic bars, clubs, food, blended with a myriad of different cultures. I'm never bored there.

Not to mention places of interest of which there are many that Thailand simply cannot match for quality; Universal Studios, Marina Bay Sands etc. Shopping to easily rival Bangkok. Public transport and infrastructure that puts Thailand to shame. Incredible airport.

Not bad for a tiny island nation.

My experience in Singapore has been that NEVER ONCE have I had to pay more to enter such a place of interest, park, museum or any other place, because I am a farang. In Indonesia I was even entitled to Pensioner discounts on public transport.

That has NOT been my experience in Thailand.

Can you imagine the fuss that thousands of tourists in Singapore would make, if they were told they must pay 3 or 4 times the going rate, because they were farangs.

[bkkfaranguy]

Has anybody been to Singapore lately, that ship is sinking fast! A 18% tax rate you got to be kidding me, a beer will cost you 10USD a pack of cigs will cost you 12 USD, try buying a car, you think they are expensive here, try buying one there and also you can only keep it for 5 years after that you have to buy aother new one and or pay a scrap tax. Singapore is the most heavily taxed country is SE Asia, the gap between the rich and the poor or middle class is worse than it is in Thailand. The rich are the politicians and the elite and you have more freedoms in communist countries like Vietnam and China.

Companies and expats are leaving by the groves to other countries because it has become to expensive for companies to have them there. All the manufacturing has moved to Malaysia or Batam Island, the only business they have is on paper, banks, free trade port etc. Talk to any middle class Singaporian and they will tell you they want a revolution as it is not the same Singapore as it was 10 -15 years ago. The only thing Thailand can learn from Singapore is not to be like it!

[chuang]

You can bring a "bua" to a river but you cannot force it to drink....l

[gobi]

No, Thailand can't.

1. Singapore is ranked as the fifth least corrupt country in the world. Link. People can do business there with some assurance.

2. Singapore lowers taxes and makes doing business there easy. Thailand makes it almost impossible with protectionist policies.

3. Singapore has the rule of law. You can count, within reason, on being treated fairly by the courts. This encourages investment.

4. Thailand wants all foreign investment to be for Thais, even requiring majority Thai ownership. Singapore gave land to The Sands Casino (of Las Vegas) to build a huge casino, employ people and pay reasonable taxes. BTW the owner of The Sands is one smart businessman - a self made billionaire. You don't see him trying to build in Thailand, even though he has casinos all over the world.

5. Singapore has low import duties, as a whole.

In short, Singapore gets it and Thailand doesn't. Thailand is a closed club for the few, and Singapore is open for business.

Thailand will still be 3rd world and going through messes 30 years from now, while watching other Western-like Asian countries excel.

So Thailand should seek to emulate Singapore for all the above reasons? - or is it because it's a single party state, or because it is No. 149 in the Press Freedom Index (14 places below Thailand), or is it because they have invoked their Internal Security Act for 50 years consecutively which the Asian Human Rights Commission says "poses a constant threat to the human rights of people in Singapore in regard to personal liberty, freedom of expression and freedom of association" and used it to detain a man for 32 years without trial before releasing him.

Human Rights Watch report for 2013 had this to say

Singapore has made little progress in terms of human rights – said the Human Rights Watch in its recently released ‘World Report 2013’.

According to HRW, while the island country has relaxed its laws on the mandatory death penalty and has reduced its curbs on opposition politicians, it still imposes severe restrictions on civil society. These restrictions extended to controls on free association, assembly of persons, and freedom of expression.

HRW’s deputy Asia director, Phil Robertson, referred to specific cases where human rights had been ignored in Singapore. “Singaporeans who hand out political leaflets or publicly criticize a senior official can face a gauntlet of punishments, including bankruptcy-inducing fines, travel bans, and prison terms. In Singapore, rights are only for those who reliably toe the government line,” Robertson is quoted as saying on the HRW’s website.

In particular, government officials have recently invoked laws like the Official Secrets Act, the Sedition Act, and the threat of civil or criminal defamation to silence their critics.

The Singapore government also made it clear during the development of the upcoming Yale-NUS campus, set to open in August, that it’s students will not be allowed to organise political protests on campus or form political party student groups. This drew flak from Yale’s academics, who argued that the democratic spirit of the university would not be truly represented.

“Singapore’s status as a world-class economy has not kept it from having a remarkably poor record in respecting the rule of law, and civil and political rights,” Robertson said on the HRW website. “The Singaporean people must be wondering when their government is going to trust them enough to exercise the same basic rights as people elsewhere."

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/human-rights-watch--sg-government-continues-to-repress-its-citizens-072435876.html

Sounds a bit different to the hagiography above doesn't it?

Edited June 8, 2013 by gobi

[Kananga]

Has anybody been to Singapore lately, that ship is sinking fast! A 18% tax rate you got to be kidding me, a beer will cost you 10USD a pack of cigs will cost you 12 USD, try buying a car, you think they are expensive here, try buying one there and also you can only keep it for 5 years after that you have to buy aother new one and or pay a scrap tax. Singapore is the most heavily taxed country is SE Asia, the gap between the rich and the poor or middle class is worse than it is in Thailand. The rich are the politicians and the elite and you have more freedoms in communist countries like Vietnam and China.

Companies and expats are leaving by the groves to other countries because it has become to expensive for companies to have them there. All the manufacturing has moved to Malaysia or Batam Island, the only business they have is on paper, banks, free trade port etc. Talk to any middle class Singaporian and they will tell you they want a revolution as it is not the same Singapore as it was 10 -15 years ago. The only thing Thailand can learn from Singapore is not to be like it!

Thats actually incorrect. You do not have to buy a new car after 5 years or scrap it. You can keep a vehicle for as long as you want to. You have to have a certificate of entitlement (COE) which is valid for 10 years. Atr the end of the 10 years you can either sell the car or purchase another 10 year COE. There are also 5 year COEs which are cheaper, but you cannot renew these. 5 year COEs are very rare though.

Contrary to your comment about companies leaving in groves this is also incorrect. Many countries are not only making Singapore their regional headquarters but many are now making it their global headquarters too. The population has increased by 1 million in the last decade and many of those are westerners in white collar management positions.

Cigarettes are 9USD not 12.

[masuk]

Last time I went by train from SIN to KL, there were hordes of shoppers who got off the train a few minutes after entering Johor Baru.

The clever Malays had built an enormous supermarket right next to the station, just for Singaporeans to come and do some cheap shopping.

Singapore is a great, modern place, with an excellent underground system, mafia -free double decker buses, no discrimination of locals v non- locals; but, as others have said, it all has to be paid for, and living there is nowhere near as economical as Thailand.

We can't have it both ways.

[NCC1701A]

I hope Thailand stays the way it is. Sort of F'ed up and crazy. I don't want it to turn into a big paved over Disneyland with seat belts and air bags. Got that in the west.

[yoshiwara]

I hope Thailand stays the way it is. Sort of F'ed up and crazy. I don't want it to turn into a big paved over Disneyland with seat belts and air bags. Got that in the west.

Nowhere quite compares with a Singapore Sling at the Bar and Billiard Room at Raffles.

[Thai at Heart]

I hope Thailand stays the way it is. Sort of F'ed up and crazy. I don't want it to turn into a big paved over Disneyland with seat belts and air bags. Got that in the west.

No, indeed, they are busy paving it over with potholes and creating a wild West style of police and legal system.

[bkkfaranguy]

Has anybody been to Singapore lately, that ship is sinking fast! A 18% tax rate you got to be kidding me, a beer will cost you 10USD a pack of cigs will cost you 12 USD, try buying a car, you think they are expensive here, try buying one there and also you can only keep it for 5 years after that you have to buy aother new one and or pay a scrap tax. Singapore is the most heavily taxed country is SE Asia, the gap between the rich and the poor or middle class is worse than it is in Thailand. The rich are the politicians and the elite and you have more freedoms in communist countries like Vietnam and China.

Companies and expats are leaving by the groves to other countries because it has become to expensive for companies to have them there. All the manufacturing has moved to Malaysia or Batam Island, the only business they have is on paper, banks, free trade port etc. Talk to any middle class Singaporian and they will tell you they want a revolution as it is not the same Singapore as it was 10 -15 years ago. The only thing Thailand can learn from Singapore is not to be like it!

Thats actually incorrect. You do not have to buy a new car after 5 years or scrap it. You can keep a vehicle for as long as you want to. You have to have a certificate of entitlement (COE) which is valid for 10 years. Atr the end of the 10 years you can either sell the car or purchase another 10 year COE. There are also 5 year COEs which are cheaper, but you cannot renew these. 5 year COEs are very rare though.

Contrary to your comment about companies leaving in groves this is also incorrect. Many countries are not only making Singapore their regional headquarters but many are now making it their global headquarters too. The population has increased by 1 million in the last decade and many of those are westerners in white collar management positions.

Cigarettes are 9USD not 12.

A ten year Certificate of entitlement for a catagory A 1600CC engine or below is $87,107.00 catagory B 1601 CC and larger $92,901.00 as of Jan 2013. Yes you are right this is for 10 years not 5 and is basically what they call a scrap tax above and beyond the price of the car. You do have the option at 5 years tp apply for what they call PARF or Preferential Additional Registration Fee if you want to de- register the car before 10 years, then you also pay an ARF FEE Additonal registration fee calculated at 110% of the open market value and 75% if the car is less than 5 years old. The whole system is very complicated and is in place to keep people from buying cars as only 1 in 8.33 people have or can even afford such cost, comparied with Brunie at 1 car per 2.09 people.

As for expats moving out I am talking about the westerners and foriegn companies there such as ours who in 2009 relocated 27 people including myself as it was to costly to keep people there, many off us went to the countries in Asia we where responsible for and we set up our headquarters in Shanghai. This trend started in 2009 right after the market crashed as many large companies where looking to reduce cost and I know of many other companies that have closed there offices in Singapore and moved elsewhere.

We left 2 expats behind there and for the few office people we needed we just hired local Singaporians much cheaper. The number you like to throw out is more than likely the laborers from India, Sri Lanka, the Philippines etc., as the Singapore Govt likes to throw them into the numbers as too not to loose face, its an Asian thing.

My whole point I sure hope Thailand does not follow in the footsteps of Singapore as they are overtaxed and have very few rights, try chewing some gum there.

Edited June 10, 2013 by bkkfaranguy

[wiki12]

Ok we know polls aren't always 100% accurate but there is something in this result.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/158882/singapore-ranks-least-emotional-country-world.aspx

This caused the government to ask a professor of statistics at Singapore university to write an article for the Straits Times saying the way the data was collected was all wrong! haha

There is a saying about Singapore ladies want the 'Five C's'. Cash, Car (horrendously expensive with 275% tax on eurpopean models), Condos (again horrendously expensive), Career and Credit card.

I travel a lot around SE asia I have noticed more Singaporean men with wives from Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia.

I have a Singaporean colleague (born and lived in the UK then Thailand and just changed citizenship last year) who has sold his car now the MRT is within walking distance, he spend the money on a 3 week holiday to New Zealand for the family. He told me his wife's Singaporean friends and family were agasht he had disposed of such a status symbol.

Thailand is a great place but the level of corruption is holding it way back compared to some of it's neighbours. I'm not long back from a trip to sleepy Penang, my Thai wife was so surprised how many people spoke perfect English (I know it was a colony until 1967). It seemed to be properly geared up for tourism with new buses and signs/timetables to make everything easier for its visitors.

When would you see the like in Phuket for example?

[toybits]

You can learn from it BUT the question is whether those lessons can ever BE APPLIED?

[paddyjenkins]

Learning requires two things...intelligence and humility. So should i think thailand can learn from singapore ?