Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

[transam]

transam, what has the skin colour of two of your friends got to do with anything. Now if you said that they were Muslims, I would be surprised!

TexasRanger, no I was not at My Lai; but it happened and no one denies that it did.

Whistleblower, if you haven't found a post where I condemn this act, you haven't been looking. I have done so many times.

U.G.

If you haven't, then I withdraw 'you' from the remark with apologies.

And that really is my last word here.

I think we are glad to hear it is your last word here.

I have had a tear in my eye for two days, haven't had that for a long time. But glad so far I haven't upset Tv itself, but there comes a time where my birthplace and it's defenders, even unarmed ones come first before all others.

PS. Most Brits don't give a shit about someones beliefs or faith, l don't, but chopping off heads in front of kids and ladies is a step to far, BUT, you carry one on in your quest.

[Mosha]

This callous murder has nothing to do with Islam.

No, it has EVERYTHING to do with Islam, but to get into a debate about it here is pointless.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think!

Have you not read the condemnation of this and other atrocious acts by Muslim leaders?

Did you not read the article about the many fatwas issued against acts of terrorism?

Man up 7 by 7 are you a muslim?? if you are that would explain your relentless attempts to justify this atrocity.

Not just me then

[Neil1952]

The Taqiyya argument is the ultimate cop out argument. It basically says, you are wrong, and even if you prove you are right, you are lying, therefore wrong. In other words, this argument does not prove anything against Islam - it baselessly assumes everything against Islam. Like a fixed sporting event, it determines the winner before the game is played. We find this tactic abhorrent in practical life, and any true seeker after truth should find this tactic abhorrent when discussing intellectual matters.

I think the Americans refer to this as 'blowing smoke up your ass.

There is no ARGUMENT regarding Taqiya, you cannot ARGUE with he Qu'ran, the words of the prophet of Allah are immutable and not open to lax misinterpretation, you cannot claim it as the Word of God and then claim that it is misunderstood / out of context / misinterpreted.....Allah would not allow that.

The evidence is contained within the Qu'ran, Hadith and Islamic jurisprudence....seek and ye shall find.

You use the word 'baselessly'....in the words of Inigo Montoya...."I do not think that word means what you think it means "

Edited May 24, 2013 by Neil1952

[OzMick]

The Taqiyya argument is the ultimate cop out argument. It basically says, you are wrong, and even if you prove you are right, you are lying, therefore wrong. In other words, this argument does not prove anything against Islam - it baselessly assumes everything against Islam. Like a fixed sporting event, it determines the winner before the game is played. We find this tactic abhorrent in practical life, and any true seeker after truth should find this tactic abhorrent when discussing intellectual matters.

Actually, you are quite wrong. That lying is an acceptable part of a person's faith makes the old saw that actions speak louder than words that much more true. We can assume that they are speaking truthfully, but informing police and/or immigration when they observe hate speech and terrorist plotting will always have far more credibility - which seems to be severely lacking.

[bangkockney]

The Taqiyya argument is the ultimate cop out argument. It basically says, you are wrong, and even if you prove you are right, you are lying, therefore wrong. In other words, this argument does not prove anything against Islam - it baselessly assumes everything against Islam. Like a fixed sporting event, it determines the winner before the game is played. We find this tactic abhorrent in practical life, and any true seeker after truth should find this tactic abhorrent when discussing intellectual matters.

I think the Americans refer to this as 'blowing smoke up your ass.

There is no ARGUMENT regarding Taqiya, you cannot ARGUE with he Qu'ran, the words of the prophet of Allah are immutable and not open to lax misinterpretation, you cannot claim it as the Word of God and then claim that it is misunderstood / out of context / misinterpreted.....Allah would not allow that.

The evidence is contained within the Qu'ran, Hadith and Islamic jurisprudence....seek and ye shall find.

Read the thread. I've read the Quran and made several comments.

You've swallowed and re-posted rants from anti-Islam websites.

If you want an intelligent discussion about your claims, I'm all for it. But you must promise to be a grown up - you've had a few petty posts removed in this thread already.

[Mosha]

I hope this is seen as relevant

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22658979

[overherebc]

I see the liberals are out again... All well & good for some individuals sat in their predominantly white, non muslim suburbshire

If you are referring to me, I live in a town with a high proportion of Muslims in the population.

It also contains the first mosque ever built in the UK, near to which are the remains of a cemetery where Muslim soldiers killed on the Western front in WW1 were buried.

Their bodies were repatriated after the war. but the memory of these men, volunteers all, who died fighting for this country remains.

Strange, I've seen many war memorials, visited cemetries in France and Belgium and we had Rolls Of Honour boards in my school assembly hall yet none contained any names that were vaguely Islamic.

I have been to the war graves in Libya and it does or did have have a fairly large site of Muslim head stones. That was around the end of 69 so they do or did exist.

Above does not apply to the general feeling of the thread. Just pointing out they are or were there at the time.

[transam]

The Taqiyya argument is the ultimate cop out argument. It basically says, you are wrong, and even if you prove you are right, you are lying, therefore wrong. In other words, this argument does not prove anything against Islam - it baselessly assumes everything against Islam. Like a fixed sporting event, it determines the winner before the game is played. We find this tactic abhorrent in practical life, and any true seeker after truth should find this tactic abhorrent when discussing intellectual matters.

I think the Americans refer to this as 'blowing smoke up your ass.

There is no ARGUMENT regarding Taqiya, you cannot ARGUE with he Qu'ran, the words of the prophet of Allah are immutable and not open to lax misinterpretation, you cannot claim it as the Word of God and then claim that it is misunderstood / out of context / misinterpreted.....Allah would not allow that.

The evidence is contained within the Qu'ran, Hadith and Islamic jurisprudence....seek and ye shall find.

Read the thread. I've read the Quran and made several comments.

You've swallowed and re-posted rants from anti-Islam websites.

If you want an intelligent discussion about your claims, I'm all for it. But you must promise to be a grown up - you've had a few petty posts removed in this thread already.

Why would you read that book ?

[Neil1952]

Read the thread. I've read the Quran and made several comments.

I've read the thread AND your comments...I wasn't impressed.

No, I haven't swallowed any guff from anti-Islamic websites....EVERYTHING I stated comes from the Qu'ran and or The Hadith....DIRECT quotes from both...unless of course you are claiming that the Qu'ran is 'anti-Islamic'.

Show me WHERE IN THE QU'RAN OR THE HADITH...THESE QUOTES HAVE BEEN TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT OR DO NOT EXIST

If you want an intelligent discussion about your claims, I'm all for it.

If I thought you were the man for the job, I'd ask for your opinion...I don't...and I won't ...as I said above...my synapses aren't receptive to gross stupidity.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Neil1952

[bangkockney]

U.G.

I, too, have something, a lot actually, against radical Muslim terrorists. But unlike you and many others here, I do not think that all Muslims support them.

Please point out a post where I have suggested anything close to this. This kind of dishonest rhetoric is why many posters distrust your motives.

U.G. well said!

7by7...... You kind of sound like the German people during the war (Moderaters, I was married to a German and lived there for 9 years, this isn't an attack on Germans)

When the war was over and the concentration camps were photographed, the Germans denied they knew it was happening. THEY DID! but they went with the flow in the vein hope that Germany would win the war and they wouldn't have to admit their guilt.

That is what most muslims are doing now. Hedging their bets. I am sure there are a lot of peaceful muslims, but I don't hear many of them condemning this act! Do you??

What is wrong with you?

Many individuals and organisations have condemned this act, publicly.

Thousands of members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community are expected to gather in London to offer prayers for the dead soldier and his family and to "express solidarity against extremism".

[Neil1952]

The Taqiyya argument is the ultimate cop out argument. It basically says, you are wrong, and even if you prove you are right, you are lying, therefore wrong. In other words, this argument does not prove anything against Islam - it baselessly assumes everything against Islam. Like a fixed sporting event, it determines the winner before the game is played. We find this tactic abhorrent in practical life, and any true seeker after truth should find this tactic abhorrent when discussing intellectual matters.

Actually, you are quite wrong. That lying is an acceptable part of a person's faith makes the old saw that actions speak louder than words that much more true. We can assume that they are speaking truthfully, but informing police and/or immigration when they observe hate speech and terrorist plotting will always have far more credibility - which seems to be severely lacking.

+1m...well said.

[yogi100]

I see the liberals are out again... All well & good for some individuals sat in their predominantly white, non muslim suburbshire

If you are referring to me, I live in a town with a high proportion of Muslims in the population.

It also contains the first mosque ever built in the UK, near to which are the remains of a cemetery where Muslim soldiers killed on the Western front in WW1 were buried.

Their bodies were repatriated after the war. but the memory of these men, volunteers all, who died fighting for this country remains.

Strange, I've seen many war memorials, visited cemetries in France and Belgium and we had Rolls Of Honour boards in my school assembly hall yet none contained any names that were vaguely Islamic.

FYI...

Among the dead recorded at the Menin Gate Memorial are Muhammad Aslam, Abdullah Khan, Ahmad Khan, Muhammad Usman and many others with recognisably Muslim names.

Fair enough I'll take your word for it. I visited the Menin Gate when they play the last post and I saw only recognisable Anglo Saxon and Celtic names.

[whistleblower]

U.G.

I, too, have something, a lot actually, against radical Muslim terrorists. But unlike you and many others here, I do not think that all Muslims support them.

Please point out a post where I have suggested anything close to this. This kind of dishonest rhetoric is why many posters distrust your motives.

U.G. well said!

7by7...... You kind of sound like the German people during the war (Moderaters, I was married to a German and lived there for 9 years, this isn't an attack on Germans)

When the war was over and the concentration camps were photographed, the Germans denied they knew it was happening. THEY DID! but they went with the flow in the vein hope that Germany would win the war and they wouldn't have to admit their guilt.

That is what most muslims are doing now. Hedging their bets. I am sure there are a lot of peaceful muslims, but I don't hear many of them condemning this act! Do you??

What is wrong with you?

Many individuals and organisations have condemned this act, publicly.

Thousands of members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community are expected to gather in London to offer prayers for the dead soldier and his family and to "express solidarity against extremism".

When I grew up and someone died, it was a case of "the jone's are here most of the Carpenter family are here and Mrs. Smith has baked a cake!

YOU DONT GET IT!

we don't want the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community to come and gloat at the funeral!!! We want friends and family. You wanna practice honour killings, 4 wives and total repression for women.........? Go do it in your own country!!!!

[transam]

U.G.

I, too, have something, a lot actually, against radical Muslim terrorists. But unlike you and many others here, I do not think that all Muslims support them.

Please point out a post where I have suggested anything close to this. This kind of dishonest rhetoric is why many posters distrust your motives.

U.G. well said!

7by7...... You kind of sound like the German people during the war (Moderaters, I was married to a German and lived there for 9 years, this isn't an attack on Germans)

When the war was over and the concentration camps were photographed, the Germans denied they knew it was happening. THEY DID! but they went with the flow in the vein hope that Germany would win the war and they wouldn't have to admit their guilt.

That is what most muslims are doing now. Hedging their bets. I am sure there are a lot of peaceful muslims, but I don't hear many of them condemning this act! Do you??

What is wrong with you?

Many individuals and organisations have condemned this act, publicly.

Thousands of members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community are expected to gather in London to offer prayers for the dead soldier and his family and to "express solidarity against extremism".

Will this lot be there ?

[Mosha]

transam, what has the skin colour of two of your friends got to do with anything. Now if you said that they were Muslims, I would be surprised!

TexasRanger, no I was not at My Lai; but it happened and no one denies that it did.

Whistleblower, if you haven't found a post where I condemn this act, you haven't been looking. I have done so many times.

U.G.

If you haven't, then I withdraw 'you' from the remark with apologies.

And that really is my last word here.

" and that really is my last word "

didn't you say something a long the lines of that yesterday ?

god, you really are a bore and i really cant think why this forum and the people that run it let you post here !

as a Londoner i find you totally repulsive !

He's entitled to an opinion, but needs to move 200 mile north.

[OzMick]

FYI...

Among the dead recorded at the Menin Gate Memorial are Muhammad Aslam, Abdullah Khan, Ahmad Khan, Muhammad Usman and many others with recognisably Muslim names.

Recognisably muslim names - because they don't have the option of NOT being muslim, do they. Could you pick the faith, or lack of it, equally accurately for those with non-muslim names?

[bangkockney]

"Hello, I'm a Muslim. I abhor religious extremism and violence. Allah demands we be merciful and decent. I do not support terrorism of any sort. Further I've reported fellow Muslims who do hold extremist views."

"Liar! Al-taqiyya proves you're a liar!"

[overherebc]

FYI...

Among the dead recorded at the Menin Gate Memorial are Muhammad Aslam, Abdullah Khan, Ahmad Khan, Muhammad Usman and many others with recognisably Muslim names.

Recognisably muslim names - because they don't have the option of NOT being muslim, do they. Could you pick the faith, or lack of it, equally accurately for those with non-muslim names?

See my post 524 for a definitive answer please.

[Mosha]

U.G.

No one here nor in the mainstream Muslim population is making excuses for or ignoring the violence of radical Islam. But far too many here are blaming all Muslims for the actions of a small minority.

Check the old news reports; mosques where hatred and violence was preached have been closed; people who preached hatred and violence have been arrested and dealt with.

jbrain;

Where have I ever said that anyone should be tolerant of terrorists? I haven't! Why don't you, transam et al actually read what I post? Afraid of enlightenment?

OzMick

You say "Why should a child be forced into a lifetime of following the orders of an ancient myth?"

Do you apply this equally to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism etc.?

In how many christian countries is it a crime to renounce the christian faith? If UK was one that dipsrick who carried out this attack would have been locked up.

Did I miss a reply?

[skippybangkok]

I believe renouncing your faith in places like Saudi results in death sentence

[uptheos]

When I grew up and someone died, it was a case of "the jone's are here most of the Carpenter family are here and Mrs. Smith has baked a cake!

YOU DONT GET IT!

we don't want the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community to come and gloat at the funeral!!! We want friends and family. You wanna practice honour killings, 4 wives and total repression for women.........? Go do it in your own country!!!!

And gloat they most certainly will.

Great post!

[bangkockney]

When I grew up and someone died, it was a case of "the jone's are here most of the Carpenter family are here and Mrs. Smith has baked a cake!

YOU DONT GET IT!

we don't want the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community to come and gloat at the funeral!!! We want friends and family. You wanna practice honour killings, 4 wives and total repression for women.........? Go do it in your own country!!!!

*sigh*

Who said anything about them going to the funeral?

Whose 'we' - you're family are you?

You said you don't hear many Muslims saying they condemn the act - I'm putting you straight on that point. That is all.

Again not that hard to understand is it? YOU DON'T GET IT

Edited May 24, 2013 by bangkockney

[TexasRanger]

We seem to have drifted away from the Fact that some muslims tried to cut off a soldiers head in London in the name of allah. All muslims evil, maybe not but the acts of terror continue and they all do it out of hatred for the infidel. I wish there was a civilised answer, but I dont think there is.

[tigerfish]

one thing i do find particularly offensive in light of the circumstances, is that this forum finds it fit to advertise a muslim dating site on this page !

[transam]

We seem to have drifted away from the Fact that some muslims tried to cut off a soldiers head in London in the name of allah. All muslims evil, maybe not but the acts of terror continue and they all do it out of hatred for the infidel. I wish there was a civilised answer, but I dont think there is.

Ask 7by7, he knows it all.

[uptheos]

Two men were arrested at Stansted Airport on suspicion of endangerment of an aircraft today after an RAF Typhoon jet was scrambled to escort a passenger plane travelling from Pakistan to the UK, Essex Police said. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/two-men-arrested-after-raf-typhoon-fighter-jets-are-scrambled-to-escort-pakistan-airlines-passenger-plane-to-stansted-8631253.html

Guess what, they were muslims.

This gruesome beheading and terrorism in general has EVERYTHING to do with Islam!

It's non flocking stop Islam, it's a scourge.

Edited May 24, 2013 by uptheos

[Chittychangchang]

The Taqiyya argument is the ultimate cop out argument. It basically says, you are wrong, and even if you prove you are right, you are lying, therefore wrong. In other words, this argument does not prove anything against Islam - it baselessly assumes everything against Islam. Like a fixed sporting event, it determines the winner before the game is played. We find this tactic abhorrent in practical life, and any true seeker after truth should find this tactic abhorrent when discussing intellectual matters.

I think the Americans refer to this as 'blowing smoke up your ass.

There is no ARGUMENT regarding Taqiya, you cannot ARGUE with he Qu'ran, the words of the prophet of Allah are immutable and not open to lax misinterpretation, you cannot claim it as the Word of God and then claim that it is misunderstood / out of context / misinterpreted.....Allah would not allow that.

The evidence is contained within the Qu'ran, Hadith and Islamic jurisprudence....seek and ye shall find.

Read the thread. I've read the Quran and made several comments.

You've swallowed and re-posted rants from anti-Islam websites.

If you want an intelligent discussion about your claims, I'm all for it. But you must promise to be a grown up - you've had a few petty posts removed in this thread already.

Why would you read that book ?

Winston Churchill Compares "Mein Kampf" to the Koran

If a person can't see what Mr.Churchill wrote or refuse to admit it, then there is nothing to be done about it. People believe what they want to believe regardless of evidence. The Koran is a spawn of Chistianity and Judaism. Islam came to life recently. 700 CE. History wise; yesterday.

Muslims say that Mohamed ascended to heaven from where the Dome of the Rock is located. If that is the case. Then Mohamed hitched a ride to heaven from a Byzantine Church which was located there and was destroyed by his gang. There is no mention of Jerusalem in the Koran not even once.

The Koran is indeed;turgid,verbose and shapeless. Try reading Mein Kampf and you will see what I mean.

[whistleblower]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

[evadgib]

I'd like to see the death penalty reinstated for certain offences but only after a mandatory 10 years of hard labour & none of that "loophole" crap re appeals. Unfortunatly this is unlikely so the best we can ask is that a whole life tarrif be imposed without the possability of release under the terms of a Good Friday Sunday agreement.

[uptheos]

I'd like to see the death penalty reinstated for certain offences but only after a mandatory 10 years of hard labour & none of that "loophole" crap re appeals. Unfortunatly this is unlikely so the best we can ask is that a whole life tarrif be imposed without the possability of release under the terms of a Good Friday Sunday agreement.

Probably have to settle for 6 weeks community service at the local mosque.