Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

[overherebc]

"Hello, I'm a Muslim. I abhor religious extremism and violence. Allah demands we be merciful and decent. I do not support terrorism of any sort. Further I've reported fellow Muslims who do hold extremist views."

"Liar! Al-taqiyya proves you're a liar!"

I really do hope you have eyes in the back of your head mate.

[Chittychangchang]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

They where out busy celebrating in Oldham, Lancashire yesterday, savages!!

Police trying 2 disperse 100s of Muslims on Victoria st Oldham from celebrating the murder of British soldier.http://inagist.com/all/337513409622982656/

[JDGRUEN]

The Taqiyya argument is the ultimate cop out argument. It basically says, you are wrong, and even if you prove you are right, you are lying, therefore wrong. In other words, this argument does not prove anything against Islam - it baselessly assumes everything against Islam. Like a fixed sporting event, it determines the winner before the game is played. We find this tactic abhorrent in practical life, and any true seeker after truth should find this tactic abhorrent when discussing intellectual matters.

Actually, you are quite wrong. That lying is an acceptable part of a person's faith makes the old saw that actions speak louder than words that much more true. We can assume that they are speaking truthfully, but informing police and/or immigration when they observe hate speech and terrorist plotting will always have far more credibility - which seems to be severely lacking.

Quite amazingly - recently in Canada local Muslims gave information to the authorities that prevented a train hijacking by Islamic Terrorists. I found this act of informing by a Muslim against a terroristst to be very unusual since I could not recall anything similar over the past decade.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/22/canada-terror-plot_n_3133514.html

http://iqra.ca/2013/alleged-al-qaeda-supported-plot-against-canadian-passenger-train/

[Neil1952]

"Hello, I'm a Muslim. I abhor religious extremism and violence. Allah demands we be merciful and decent. I do not support terrorism of any sort. Further I've reported fellow Muslims who do hold extremist views."

It must be freezing cold in front of Old Nick's hearth today !

[bangkockney]

Read the thread. I've read the Quran and made several comments.

I've read the thread AND your comments...I wasn't impressed.

No, I haven't swallowed any guff from anti-Islamic websites....EVERYTHING I stated comes from the Qu'ran and or The Hadith....DIRECT quotes from both...unless of course you are claiming that the Qu'ran is 'anti-Islamic'.

Show me WHERE IN THE QU'RAN OR THE HADITH...THESE QUOTES HAVE BEEN TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT OR DO NOT EXIST

If you want an intelligent discussion about your claims, I'm all for it.

If I thought you were the man for the job, I'd ask for your opinion...I don't...and I won't ...as I said above...my synapses aren't receptive to gross stupidity.

The most common definition I've seen in academic works is precautionary dissimulation, which pretty well defines it.

The thing to remember is that there are often references these days on blogs and whatnot implying it is a universal Muslim practice and is used to deceive non-Muslims, historically it is not. It is very heavily Shi'a in formulation and elaboration, adopted as a way of avoiding Sunni persecution at a time when the Muslim governments in existence were almost entirely Sunni and Shi'a populations were very small minorities. It was also thoroughly tied up with notions of apolitical quietism - Twelver populations in particular were to keep their heads down and their beliefs as private as possible.

Shi'a scholars ( feeling defensive ) and conservative Islamophobes ( feeling offensive ) both have made strenuous efforts to find favorable Sunni passages in hadith and individual instances of Sunni use. However when it comes down to it Sunni authorities have traditionally used the idea as a rhetorical hammer against Shi'ites, basically accusing Shi'a of being hypocrites ( for denying their faith ) and habitual liars due to the heavy practice of taqiyya.

Beyond that it is also somewhat particular to Twelver ( Ithna'ashari ) and Sevener ( Isma'ili ) Shi'ism. Fiver ( Zaydi ) Shi'ism, rejects the notion altogether, along with a number of other "typical" Shi'a beliefs, for reasons of aggressive militancy. The notion also came under attack by some modernist Iranian reformers like Mirza Aqa Khan Kermani writing in the late 19th century, who regarded it as an outdated concept.

So generally speaking the notion that this is a normative bit of theology in the Muslim world used primarily to deceive Christians and other non-Muslims is mistaken. For the most part it is a Shi'a notion and was used overwhelmingly to escape persecution by other Muslims. While it is not impossible that some very forward-thinking Sunni radicals ( and most radicals aren't very forward-thinking ) have begun adopting and adapting taqiyya as a formal theory as a way of expanding some half-assed jihad against the West, in general it is a concept that Sunni traditionalists would sneer at.

[transam]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

They where out busy celebrating in Oldham, Lancashire yesterday, savages!!

Police trying 2 disperse 100s of Muslims on Victoria st Oldham from celebrating the murder of British soldier.http://inagist.com/all/337513409622982656/

Hmmmmmmmmmm, perhaps time for the army to help them home.

But no, someone will give them sandwiches and tea no doubt, well, human rights and and stuff.

Edited May 24, 2013 by transam

[whistleblower]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

They where out busy celebrating in Oldham, Lancashire yesterday, savages!!

Police trying 2 disperse 100s of Muslims on Victoria st Oldham from celebrating the murder of British soldier.http://inagist.com/all/337513409622982656/

Exactly, scum of the earth to go out and rejoice in someone elses death! That poor guys family, coping with such a barbaric act and people (well not really people exhalt in his demise)

As my father said don't trust anyone who treat women as cattle and cattle as gods!

[bangkockney]

"Hello, I'm a Muslim. I abhor religious extremism and violence. Allah demands we be merciful and decent. I do not support terrorism of any sort. Further I've reported fellow Muslims who do hold extremist views."

"Liar! Al-taqiyya proves you're a liar!"

I really do hope you have eyes in the back of your head mate.

Come again?

[uptheos]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

They where out busy celebrating in Oldham, Lancashire yesterday, savages!!

Police trying 2 disperse 100s of Muslims on Victoria st Oldham from celebrating the murder of British soldier.http://inagist.com/all/337513409622982656/

Exactly, scum of the earth to go out and rejoice in someone elses death! That poor guys family, coping with such a barbaric act and people (well not really people exhalt in his demise)

As my father said don't trust anyone who treat women as cattle and cattle as gods!

I think they treat their cattle as women too.

[overherebc]

"Hello, I'm a Muslim. I abhor religious extremism and violence. Allah demands we be merciful and decent. I do not support terrorism of any sort. Further I've reported fellow Muslims who do hold extremist views."

"Liar! Al-taqiyya proves you're a liar!"

I really do hope you have eyes in the back of your head mate.

Come again?

If you are reporting people who have extremist views just be very careful for your own sake.

[Loptr]

It's only a matter of time before islam pushes the christians too far in the EU. Perhaps that time is closer than some think. The backlash will not be pretty, if there are any europeans with enough chutzpah to stand up for their homelands. It will not be the first time, but hopefully the last.

[sustento]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

You can't have been looking very hard...

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/150778/thousands-muslims-gather-on-london-streets-to-condemn-barbaric-murder-of-uk-soldier.html

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Leicester-s-Muslim-leaders-condemn-Woolwich/story-19068681-detail/story.html#axzz2UE0J0QrB

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/23/woolwich-attack-muslim-groups-condemn-lee-rigby-murder_n_3328374.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/aussie-muslims-condemn-london-attack/story-e6frfku9-1226649486410

http://www.pashtunforums.com/world-news-16/muslims-condemn-london-killing-soldier-37824/

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4938877/PM-and-Muslim-leaders-unite-to-condemn-attack.html

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Cambridge/Woolwich-attack-Cambridgeshire-Muslim-group-condemns-brutal-attack-on-British-soldier-20130523100529.htm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/letters-british-muslims-condemn-horror-in-woolwich-8629693.html

[Neil1952]

The most common definition I've seen in academic works is precautionary dissimulation, which pretty well defines it.

The thing to remember is that there are often references these days on blogs and whatnot implying it is a universal Muslim practice and is used to deceive non-Muslims, historically it is not. It is very heavily Shi'a in formulation and elaboration, adopted as a way of avoiding Sunni persecution at a time when the Muslim governments in existence were almost entirely Sunni and Shi'a populations were very small minorities. It was also thoroughly tied up with notions of apolitical quietism - Twelver populations in particular were to keep their heads down and their beliefs as private as possible.

Shi'a scholars ( feeling defensive ) and conservative Islamophobes ( feeling offensive ) both have made strenuous efforts to find favorable Sunni passages in hadith and individual instances of Sunni use. However when it comes down to it Sunni authorities have traditionally used the idea as a rhetorical hammer against Shi'ites, basically accusing Shi'a of being hypocrites ( for denying their faith ) and habitual liars due to the heavy practice of taqiyya.

Beyond that it is also somewhat particular to Twelver ( Ithna'ashari ) and Sevener ( Isma'ili ) Shi'ism. Fiver ( Zaydi ) Shi'ism, rejects the notion altogether, along with a number of other "typical" Shi'a beliefs, for reasons of aggressive militancy. The notion also came under attack by some modernist Iranian reformers like Mirza Aqa Khan Kermani writing in the late 19th century, who regarded it as an outdated concept.

So generally speaking the notion that this is a normative bit of theology in the Muslim world used primarily to deceive Christians and other non-Muslims is mistaken. For the most part it is a Shi'a notion and was used overwhelmingly to escape persecution by other Muslims. While it is not impossible that some very forward-thinking Sunni radicals ( and most radicals aren't very forward-thinking ) have begun adopting and adapting taqiyya as a formal theory as a way of expanding some half-assed jihad against the West, in general it is a concept that Sunni traditionalists would sneer at.

All very plausible, but it does not preclude the fact that they are contained within the text of the Qu'ran and the Hadith, which predates schisms within the Islamic world, these were practices which were condoned by Mohammed and Abu Bakhir

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

"Though not called Taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later, and some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed."

"Another example of lying is when Muhammad used deception to trick his personal enemies into letting down their guard and exposing themselves to slaughter by pretending to seek peace. This happened in the case of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf (as previously noted) and again later against Usayr ibn Zarim, a surviving leader of the Banu Nadir tribe, which had been evicted from their home in Medina by the Muslims."

NB...these are not my words...they are from various discussion groups on Islamic practice...that I have copied and pasted over the years.

I'm not saying that ALL Muslims are liars...I'm saying that they have dispensation to lie enshrined within the Qu'ran.///words are cheap...ACTIONS aren't...as evidenced by the Canadian situation.

The Holy Roman Catholic Church granted similar dispensation when it came to lying to preserve / promote the faith.

[sustento]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

They where out busy celebrating in Oldham, Lancashire yesterday, savages!!

Police trying 2 disperse 100s of Muslims on Victoria st Oldham from celebrating the murder of British soldier.http://inagist.com/all/337513409622982656/

Not according to Greater Manchester Police they weren't...

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/05/23/did-muslims-in-oldham-celebrate-the-woolwich-attack-no/

[overherebc]

It's only a matter of time before islam pushes the christians too far in the EU. Perhaps that time is closer than some think. The backlash will not be pretty, if there are any europeans with enough chutzpah to stand up for their homelands. It will not be the first time, but hopefully the last.

It is unfortunate that this will probably be the case.

However collateral damage is a worrying point.

But, you can't make an omlette without breaking eggs.

Edited May 24, 2013 by overherebc

[whistleblower]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

You can't have been looking very hard...

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/150778/thousands-muslims-gather-on-london-streets-to-condemn-barbaric-murder-of-uk-soldier.html

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Leicester-s-Muslim-leaders-condemn-Woolwich/story-19068681-detail/story.html#axzz2UE0J0QrB

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/23/woolwich-attack-muslim-groups-condemn-lee-rigby-murder_n_3328374.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/aussie-muslims-condemn-london-attack/story-e6frfku9-1226649486410

http://www.pashtunforums.com/world-news-16/muslims-condemn-london-killing-soldier-37824/

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4938877/PM-and-Muslim-leaders-unite-to-condemn-attack.html

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Cambridge/Woolwich-attack-Cambridgeshire-Muslim-group-condemns-brutal-attack-on-British-soldier-20130523100529.htm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/letters-british-muslims-condemn-horror-in-woolwich-8629693.html

Are you serious????????????????

A muslim forum?

The huffington post?

The Sun?

Sensationilist newspapers at the least, sell their own grandma for a story!!

As for Leicester????

we lost that county in the 70's!!!

Something more credible please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[7by7]

The BBC? I posted quotes from them a long way back; didn't you read them?

Here

Edited to insert link for those with a poor memory.

Edited May 24, 2013 by 7by7

[sustento]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

You can't have been looking very hard...

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/150778/thousands-muslims-gather-on-london-streets-to-condemn-barbaric-murder-of-uk-soldier.html

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Leicester-s-Muslim-leaders-condemn-Woolwich/story-19068681-detail/story.html#axzz2UE0J0QrB

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/23/woolwich-attack-muslim-groups-condemn-lee-rigby-murder_n_3328374.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/aussie-muslims-condemn-london-attack/story-e6frfku9-1226649486410

http://www.pashtunforums.com/world-news-16/muslims-condemn-london-killing-soldier-37824/

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4938877/PM-and-Muslim-leaders-unite-to-condemn-attack.html

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Cambridge/Woolwich-attack-Cambridgeshire-Muslim-group-condemns-brutal-attack-on-British-soldier-20130523100529.htm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/letters-british-muslims-condemn-horror-in-woolwich-8629693.html

Are you serious????????????????

A muslim forum?

The huffington post?

The Sun?

Sensationilist newspapers at the least, sell their own grandma for a story!!

As for Leicester????

we lost that county in the 70's!!!

Something more credible please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you actually read what was written rather than just look at the URLs? You said that no Muslims have yet condemned the murder. All of the URLs I've provided have a variety of Muslims from different organisations condemning the murder.

Edited May 24, 2013 by sustento

[katana]

One of the suspects was a follower of the hate-preaching cleric named Anjem Choudary. This chap has been accused of inspiring other outbreaks of terror in Britain. It is well and nice for some in the Muslim community to tut tut and to offer their empty platitudes, but no one has taken a stand against the preachings of Imams like Choudary. There is not one statement from all of these muslim community representatives about the community's responsibility to speak out against the likes of Choudary.

Here is the Imam justifying the murder and refusing to condemn it. (see 2.40) Sadly, many of his views have been parroted by some people on this thread.

It is an incredibly sad event that a man, who volunteered to serve his country, was savagely murdered on the street by fellow countrymen who have benefited from the deceased's service. I find it vulgar and offensive that anyone would seek to offer excuses for such a profane and violent act. Anyone with a sense of decency will see the actions for what they were. A ruthless, barbaric act of terror.

More of Choudary here, refusing to condemn the attack and seeming to be implicated in the radicalisation of one of the attackers, Adebolajo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDwUpv90QEE

Edited May 24, 2013 by Scott

[sustento]

The Muslim Council of Britain issued the following statement:

This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the Armed Forces. Muslims have long served in this country’s Armed Forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the Armed Forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder.

This action will no doubt heighten tensions on the streets of the United Kingdom. We call on all our communities, Muslim and non-Muslim, to come together in solidarity to ensure the forces of hatred do not prevail. It is important we allow our police authorities to do their job without speculation. We also urge the utmost vigilance and ask the police authorities to calm tensions.

[sbk]

Issuing a very public warning here. Ignore it at your own peril.

You will DROP the personal attacks. You will drop the racist bigoted hyperbole. NOW. Next post earns a full month suspension. Clear??

[jbrain]

The Muslim Council of Britain issued the following statement:

This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the Armed Forces. Muslims have long served in this country’s Armed Forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the Armed Forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder.

This action will no doubt heighten tensions on the streets of the United Kingdom. We call on all our communities, Muslim and non-Muslim, to come together in solidarity to ensure the forces of hatred do not prevail. It is important we allow our police authorities to do their job without speculation. We also urge the utmost vigilance and ask the police authorities to calm tensions.

What you expected, that they would release a statement openly supporting the facts ?

Ever heard about two faced politics to calm the tempers. Unfortunately this kind of policy isn't something that is confined to muslims organisations only.

Edited May 24, 2013 by jbrain

[sustento]

The Muslim Council of Britain issued the following statement:

This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the Armed Forces. Muslims have long served in this country’s Armed Forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the Armed Forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder.

This action will no doubt heighten tensions on the streets of the United Kingdom. We call on all our communities, Muslim and non-Muslim, to come together in solidarity to ensure the forces of hatred do not prevail. It is important we allow our police authorities to do their job without speculation. We also urge the utmost vigilance and ask the police authorities to calm tensions.

What you expected, that they would release a statement openly supporting the facts ?

Ever heard about two faced politics to calm the tempers. Unfortunately this kind of policy isn't something that is confined to muslims organisations only.

People complain about the fact that Muslims don't condemn atrocities like this and then call them liars when they do. There really is no pleasing you is there?

[JDGRUEN]

I've said that I believe that Islam has not evolved ... actually I think it has 'devolved' over time. Perhaps Islam was truly definable as a religion hundreds of years ago with an imposing culture but more recently Islam does not seem so much a religion - now more like a socio-political cult that exist so that men in power can do anything they want without fear of reprisal within their community. Depending on the country and region, Islamic authoritarian dogma allows men at various levels to order others to do heinous things, allows men to marry children and allows them to beat and kill women. And a lot of this is due to weak men who would be failures under any other open system. The current religious trappings of Islam are just that 'trappings' to give some legitimacy to their dictatorial social enslavement of others especially women. Intolerance of other religions and other social systems is to prevent the Muslim masses from learning the truth - thus the reason for intolerance and hatred. Jews, Christians, Buddhist, Hindus, Atheists and others are a threat because they hold the truth and it might spread. And the Truth is Freedom of the Individual. Thus the reason for social rules such as women wearing head coverings or even total body coverings, not being able to leave the house without a male relative in tow, etc. These practices cut out much social interaction and exposure to the pollution of foreign ideas. The acts of extreme violence between the sects of Islam has been extended to the infidel and it seems that Muslims are confused as to the condemnation they receive from Western societies. After all - beheadings have been common among the waring sects for hundreds of years - what are the Westerners so upset about?

In recent times it is easy to observe the pattern, move in, over populate, segregate, isolate, campaign for special treatment, demand respect for their Islamic practices even by non Muslims and extend little or nothing in return, become insulted at ever other action by infidels as it is a sacrilege to Islam, demand their own laws be used instead of the host country's laws, pose as victims, etc., etc. All done while concealing the truth of their intentions - which are to expand, dominate and consume the host culture. Cultists spreading their influence as a parasite of the host.

I pose this analysis done from another point of view - another perspective. As I have said, there are moderate Muslims who do not want to support violence against anyone - BUT the currently evolved (devolved) Muslim culture does not allow the moderate person to be seen or heard- not in public politic. Muslims have a cadre of millions of hard core Religionists controlling hundreds of millions of 'followers' who dare not speak out against the cult or attempt to escape from the cult for fear of personal safety and community cult like 'group think' condemnation and reprisals. I also pose that if one studies modern day cults (many well documented cases) one can easily see the near exact same structure and interaction.

Edited May 24, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[sustento]

^^^^^^^^^

We, is the British people!! We are tired of excuses, We are tired of weak politicians, We are tired of muslims coming to our country and putting local butchers out of business because they sell pork!!! We are tired of the fact that flying the Union Jack might offend muslims, we are bored of listening to stories of British airways stewardesses getting fired for refusing to taking of a cross and chain neckless, we are tired of pandering to radical idiots!

Our country ...Our laws...... Don't like it? then <deleted> off back to your your own country!!! Great Britain is not for SALE. Everyone has a limit. The brutal murder of this young man might be ours!

And again I haven't heard 1 muslim condemn this act!!!!

They where out busy celebrating in Oldham, Lancashire yesterday, savages!!

Police trying 2 disperse 100s of Muslims on Victoria st Oldham from celebrating the murder of British soldier.http://inagist.com/all/337513409622982656/

Not according to Greater Manchester Police they weren't...

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/05/23/did-muslims-in-oldham-celebrate-the-woolwich-attack-no/

Liberal Conspiracy theories whatever next, hey maybe it didn't happen......

For those wishing to quell the angry masses, try this alternative viewpoint(well outside the box imho)

EXCLUSIVE: London Beheading Hoax Confirmed?

TFAdmin | May 23, 2013

By Chris & Sheree Geo

Truth Frequency Radio

Two men allegedly beheaded a solider in the streets of London today, in what is being described as a “brutal coordinated attack”. The perpetrators gave an interview after the fact, stuck around for about 20 or 30 minutes until police arrived, speaking to bystanders and were of course killed by the police AFTER they were in custody.

The world is all a stage. . Call me jaded, cynical, skeptical or even out right crazy but this event has all of the same earmarks as the Sandy Hook, The Boston Marathon Bombing and so many recent events. The stage is a some-what well organized area, actors seem to be placed in strategic areas waiting for their cue and once again we see the remarkable absence of blood. The story is also full of anti-Islamic propaganda even going so far as to claim the “perpetrator” yelled “Allahu Ahkbar” just before beheading the man.

A man on a bus (on his way to a job interview) filmed the events and even managed to get an interview with the perpetrator. Despite a massive amount of searching we have been unable to find the raw footage of this event. The only video circulating is the same worn out ITV NEWS video claiming the man made the following statement:

““We swear by Almighty Allah, we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. The only reasons we killed this man is because Muslims are dying daily. This British soldier is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. We apologize that woman had to see this today, but in our lands our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government. They don’t care about you.””

You would imagine first that the raw video would be circulating considering the vast network of video sharing sites but instead we are left with the ITV NEWS “butchered” version (pun intended. Furthermore the news reporter talks over the perpetrator and the audible words start at “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth”. If this was actually an Islamic extremist then you would imagine the mainstream media and powers that shouldn’t be would play that sound byte over and over again but instead the attackers real words are covered up by a news reporter. That’s not to mention the man sounds like he has a natural South African accent posing as a man with a British accent. As we saw prior to the massacre of Gaddafi and the Libyan people, Israel, MI6 and the west often recruit African mercenaries to do their dirty work. It wouldn’t surprise me if this man is an African mercenary paid to play this role.

According to the mainstream accounts, the men got into a confrontation on the road which escalated into a “coordinated” beheading. Well, make up your mind! Was it well coordinated and premeditated or was it impulsive? In the video below you will see a woman with a shopping card passing through the set and right next to the attacker as he’s giving an interview after which the camera cuts away quickly. You would imagine that you would walk AWAY from a man wielding a butcher bloody butcher knife and a decapitated body but instead she walks RIGHT PAST the man!\

The propaganda actors are out in full bloom too!

Another witness, who gave his name only as James, told London’s LBC 97.3 radio station that he saw two men standing by the victim on the floor.

At first he thought they were trying to help the man but then saw two meat cleavers, like a butcher would have.

“They were hacking at this poor guy, literally,” he told the radio station, as if they were trying to remove his organs.

“These two guys were crazed. They were just not there. They were just animals.

So we are supposed to believe these two men gruesomely beheaded a random stranger in broad daylight and everyone around is calm as can be? And the only blood anywhere to be seen is in the victims hands and on the knife? There is no blood on the victims clothes, no blood on the street, nothing at all, despite the fact that these were supposedly very crude cuts and “gruesome hacking’. And who walks around with meat cleaver? And who in their right mind wants to be seen on as many cameras as possible after committing a horrific murder?

He said after the “horrendous” attack, the two men, who were also in their 20s, stood around, waving knives and a gun, and asked people to take pictures of them “as if they wanted to be on TV or something”.

“They were oblivious to anything, they were more worried about having their photo taken, running up and down the road,” he said.

We’ll continue to look into this story but on the surface it seems like just another propaganda piece, nothing to really concern ourselves with and most likely a distraction while they slip more totalitarian legislation through.

Although we’re no blood splatter analysts, something doesn’t look right with the amount of blood present on the scene. It reminds one a bit of this old Monty Python sketch (actually, we’re being quite generous, really ; Monty Python was much more convincing):

The Case For Calling The London Beheading a Hoax. The Loony Left at it's best.

CCC

Did you read the Tweets by Greater Manchester Police?

"Rumours of unrest in Chadderton, Oldham, are untrue. Police patrols have been to the area and there are no protests."

"@225NeverForgive @TonyLeeMartin There is no unrest in Oldham. This rumour is false."

Edited May 24, 2013 by sustento

[MAJIC]

Outrageous, what has Britain become, where a member of Her Majesty's Armed Fforces can't walk the streets without facing attack? Powells "Rivers of blood" speech may actually have prophesied just that, although probably not his intention.

For too long have the "British" people been like a sleeping dog, laying complacent at the hearth. Now these animals welcomed in & given every opportunity have become so emboldened as to commit this horrific act on Britains streets.

Too late for government to act, as "they" are already embeded in every aspect of political life in the UK. The "mindless morons of the EDL" as some on this forum have called them, are now apparently the last bastion for repriasal as far as Britain is concerned & good luck to them.

Every Muslim living in Britian should should feel shame upon themselves & Islam for breeding, & harbouring such hatred for a country that allowed them to thrive.

Regardless where these animals came from, they are Muslims, no matter what denials or renunciation the Islamic mouth piece in the UK comes out with.

I've read some absolute wet liberal crap on here regarding this & most of it from brits, no wonder the country is in shit, for want of a better term. All Muslims in the UK are now fair game, month after month I read of "home grown" would be Islamic terrorists, of Muslim men colluding on child grooming & rape. Enough is enough...

Well said.

Apart from the EDL the spineless British citizens will just whimper about these Islamic atrocities while the equally spineless police, the establishment and politicians will continue to make excuses for their behaviour and arrest members of the EDL for being seen to care about the state of their country.

Not a single British citizen was ever consulted on the matter of immigration yet we claim to live in a democracy.

Spineless Police! who do you think risked their own lives to apprehend the Muslim Killers? while you were playing the Brave keyboard warrior! and what country are you a Citizen of? that would face a pair of Terrorists empty handed? and end up slaughtered?

[sustento]

Outrageous, what has Britain become, where a member of Her Majesty's Armed Fforces can't walk the streets without facing attack? Powells "Rivers of blood" speech may actually have prophesied just that, although probably not his intention.

For too long have the "British" people been like a sleeping dog, laying complacent at the hearth. Now these animals welcomed in & given every opportunity have become so emboldened as to commit this horrific act on Britains streets.

Too late for government to act, as "they" are already embeded in every aspect of political life in the UK. The "mindless morons of the EDL" as some on this forum have called them, are now apparently the last bastion for repriasal as far as Britain is concerned & good luck to them.

Every Muslim living in Britian should should feel shame upon themselves & Islam for breeding, & harbouring such hatred for a country that allowed them to thrive.

Regardless where these animals came from, they are Muslims, no matter what denials or renunciation the Islamic mouth piece in the UK comes out with.

I've read some absolute wet liberal crap on here regarding this & most of it from brits, no wonder the country is in shit, for want of a better term. All Muslims in the UK are now fair game, month after month I read of "home grown" would be Islamic terrorists, of Muslim men colluding on child grooming & rape. Enough is enough...

Well said.

Apart from the EDL the spineless British citizens will just whimper about these Islamic atrocities while the equally spineless police, the establishment and politicians will continue to make excuses for their behaviour and arrest members of the EDL for being seen to care about the state of their country.

Would that be the EDL who are so proud of being English that they attend all their public meetings with balaclavas on so no-one can see their faces?

[MAJIC]

Seems like some common sense is coming into this thread that began with a crime.

I take your point,but an atrocity would be nearer the mark.

[jbrain]

Another peacful muslim event in Sweden.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/641640-at-least-8-arrested-after-swedish-riots-enter-third-day/

The riots are believed to have begun after a local police shot and killed a machete-wielding 69-year-old man the previous week in the suburb, where a large number of Muslim immigrants reside. While some local youth leaders have claimed inequality, other locals have criticized the riots, saying youths took the incident as an excuse to take out their frustration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Stockholm_riots

The rioting occurred after the fatal shooting of a 69-year-old man in his Husby apartment on 13 May 2013. The man, armed with a machete and locked in with a woman, reportedly threatened to kill the police. The police stormed in when negotiations failed.^[5][6][7]The man had allegedly been confronted earlier by a gang of youths, whom he threatened with a knife. When the police knocked on his door, he mistook them for the youths and did not open the door. Believing that the woman in the apartment (his wife) was in danger, the police, his brother-in-law maintains, shot him. According to reports, the man was originally from Portugal.^[8][9]

^{The police were stoned by youths, resulting in three injuries on Sunday night and seven by the next night.[2][4] The police adopted a policy of non-interference with the riots, explaining that their goal was to "do as little as possible".[}

Edited May 24, 2013 by jbrain

[sustento]

Dr Emanuel Tanya:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_is_Dr_Emanuel_Tanya_supposedly_a_well-known_and_well-respected_psychiatrist_but_I_can't_find_anything_about_him_on_the_internet

This is the real Dr Emanual Tanay who was a holocaust survivor and who appears to have had nothing to do with the chain email mentioned above:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Tanay

Edited May 24, 2013 by sustento