Bequeathing A Condo- Is There A Cheaper Way

[Delight]

As most of you already know the beneficiary of a condo, via inheritance, has to transfer funds into Thailand. The amount of these funds has to be equivalent to the appraised value of the condo.

This action will allow to beneficiary to obtain a Foreign Exchange Transfer Certificate from the receiving bank. With this in place and all land office transfer costs paid –then the beneficiary will have the chanote in his/her name.

However I assume that the funds cannot then be simply transferred out of Thailand –otherwise what is the point?

The reason for this post is to open a debate on ‘ways,if any, around this expensive process’.

[Chao Lao Beach]

What, you inherent a condo after it has been paid in full, and then you have to buy it again, I must be missing something here.,

[Thereisnoif]

The perfect demonstration as to why the thai real estate market is a fool's game.

As a foreigner you will get <deleted>, there is absolutely no denying it .

[pdebuck456]

As most of you already know the beneficiary of a condo, via inheritance, has to transfer funds into Thailand. The amount of these funds has to be equivalent to the appraised value of the condo.

This action will allow to beneficiary to obtain a Foreign Exchange Transfer Certificate from the receiving bank. With this in place and all land office transfer costs paid âthen the beneficiary will have the chanote in his/her name.

However I assume that the funds cannot then be simply transferred out of Thailand âotherwise what is the point?

The reason for this post is to open a debate on âways,if any, around this expensive processâ.

Not entirely sure this actually is a requirement.

If someone (foreigner) buys a condo from a foreign seller, he needs to bring in funds, since the seller will be allowed to take the proceeds abroad.

This system ensures the value of the condo had to be remitted into Thailand with the initial purchase, and remains there virtually forever.

Since the deceased person is not selling the condo and the transfer will not result in the initial investment leaving Thailand, no new funds should be remitted into Thailand.

I also do not think the change of ownership through inheritance is done by the same procedure as an outright sale, the latter indeed requiring proof of inbound remittance.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 24, 2013 by pdebuck456

[pdebuck456]

Hmmm,

seems I'm wrong. Apparently the only thing the heir can do is to sell the condo (and keep the proceeds), and has to do so within a 1 year period from inheritance.

If not done, the juristic person is allowed to sell the condo and retain a 5% fee for doing so.

Indeed to change ownership into the heirs name, he has to qualify under the condominium act, meaning for most needing an FeT to the amount of the appraised value (or hold permanent residency).

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Suradit69]

Hmmm,

seems I'm wrong. Apparently the only thing the heir can do is to sell the condo (and keep the proceeds), and has to do so within a 1 year period from inheritance.

If not done, the juristic person is allowed to sell the condo and retain a 5% fee for doing so.

Indeed to change ownership into the heirs name, he has to qualify under the condominium act, meaning for most needing an FeT to the amount of the appraised value (or hold permanent residency).

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

"If not done, the juristic person is allowed to sell the condo and retain a 5% fee for doing so."

Not sure I understand this. We have units in our building in which no one has lived for a number of years. Presumably the owners died but, despite the fact that money is owed for annual fees etc., the Juristic Person cannot sell those properties even to recover money due. If the condo was legally owned by a foreigner, on what basis would the Juristic Person have authority to sell it? Who would decide if it was being sold at a realistic price?

Also I still don't understand the need to bring in foreign exchange if you inherit a condo. There may or may not be a problem if the heir wants to sell the condo and send the proceeds out of the country, but why would he need to bring in cash just to inherit? Who sets the value of the condo and supposed amount of foreign exchange needed?

Admittedly Thai property laws can be difficult to comprehend, but this sounds like a problem is being created where one doesn't exist.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Suradit69

[Delight]

What, you inherent a condo after it has been paid in full, and then you have to buy it again, I must be missing something here.,

The beneficiary buys the condo from the estate of the deceased.-at the appraised value. That value is determined by the land office.The bank gives you the FET assuming that new money has been brought in.. The money ends up (less costs )in the estate of the deceased.As a new owner you have to qualify for ownership.

I think ,but am not sure ,that this money cannot be transferred out of Thailand.Suspect that they want you to spend it in Thailand.

If the property is subsequently sold -then that money can be transferred out. Again I am not 100% sure

If after one year the condo is unsold ,because the beneficiary is unqualified,then the land office sells it -i.e a forced sale. The proceeds going to the estate of the deceased.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Delight

[54321]

The perfect demonstration as to why the thai real estate market is a fool's game.

As a foreigner you will get <deleted>, there is absolutely no denying it .

Says someone who I suspect has no experience in buying/selling property in Thailand. I have made a minimum of 10% and a maximum (so far) of 40% on condos I have bought and subsequently sold.

[Spoonman]

What, you inherent a condo after it has been paid in full, and then you have to buy it again, I must be missing something here.,

The beneficiary buys the condo from the estate of the deceased.-at the appraised value. That value is determined by the land office.The bank gives you the FET assuming that new money has been brought in.. The money ends up (less costs )in the estate of the deceased.As a new owner you have to qualify for ownership.

I think ,but am not sure ,that this money cannot be transferred out of Thailand.Suspect that they want you to spend it in Thailand.

If the property is subsequently sold -then that money can be transferred out. Again I am not 100% sure

If after one year the condo is unsold ,because the beneficiary is unqualified,then the land office sells it -i.e a forced sale. The proceeds going to the estate of the deceased.

Errrr If I inherited some property but was then expected to buy it from the estate how is this inheriting the property, sounds more like a dodgy sales tactic than anything.

[bigwilly]

I would just like to chuck in my own experience here in Pattaya this year, my friend was killed in an accident late last year, thai wife and kids legally married overseas and registered here in Thailand. He died intestate with 4 condos in Pattaya and numerous bank accounts both here and Bangkok. We went to Chonburi Provincial Court and submitted all the required documents, "too many to mention here" after about 6 weeks the Judge issued a single sheet of paper which identified his wife as Excecutor of his Thai asset's and beneficiary of all those assets, the Banks all immediately closed each account turned over the proceeds of each and all accounts to his excecutor in cash with a each Bank retaining a copy of the Court paper and copy of ID Card of his executor. Next stop Land Office! His excecutor (wife) was immediately listed as such on the back of the Chanot's X 4 no charge for this, the 4 chanot's were still in the name of the deceased, we were told that she could transfer the ownership to Thai no problem, but foreign ownership would be lost, if she sold to a ferang the new ferang would need a Foreign Currency Certificate to the Appraised value, set by the land office, she was also told that there was no limit to the time she can remain on the back of the chanot as excecutor and was free to sell at anytime if she wished. One unit was sold in March this year there was no problem getting a free of debt letter from the Juristic Person, and then transferring the condo from the deceased name to the new foreign buyer's name. We did ask about the suggested 1 year rule and were assured there is no such law applicable here. I think the OP from DELIGHT has it all pretty much right. The above was my personal experience here, rest assured the Thai Court was quick and efficient all was sorted without a Lawyer, unlike in Australia where a Lawyer is still seeking probate for asset's in Australia, Letters Of Administration, via the Supreme Court Of NSW. As we all know there are several ways to obtain the Foreign Currency Certificate and there are many ways to get funds out of Thailand if need be.

I hope this post may put a different view here. We should all make a Will and be prepared, the end will come for us all, it is just when that's the unanswered bit.

Regards To all BW.

[bigwilly]

What, you inherent a condo after it has been paid in full, and then you have to buy it again, I must be missing something here.,

Only if you are a foreigner, if you the beneficiary are Thai there are no such requirement's, transfer can be made, to your Thai name.

BW.

[monty]

Ok, so if I understand it correctly, if you inherit a condo, you will be listed on the back of the land title deed as executor of this particular asset.

You apparently need a court order signed by a judge to do this.

It seems the 1 year rule is only in place if the executor is a foreigner and not when the executor is Thai.

So in short, if you plan on selling the condo, there is no issue whatsoever apart from having the limited 1 year timeframe to do so.

If you want to keep the condo, you apparently have to bring in funds to the tune of he appraised value of the condo, transfer the condo into your own name, and basically as both executor (seller) and buyer pay yourself for the asset

The only drawback being having to import funds you likely won't need in Thailand, with all currency exchange costs and risks. And of course having such funds available to do so. If you do not have said funds you might end up having to sell an asset you'd rather have kept!

[johnlandy]

What, you inherent a condo after it has been paid in full, and then you have to buy it again, I must be missing something here.,

I think that the question is fairly simple however the procedure is anything but. Thailand is where most western 'developed' countries were 150 years ago.

If anything can be made difficult you can be sure that it will be in Thailand. BUT, TiT after all...

[Card]

Doesn't it depend on whether the beneficiary is Thai or farang and whether it is a spouse or not?

I can't see a Thai spouse having to bring in cash to receive a condo from her husband in a will.

Plz be more specific as to who the beneficiary is to be.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Card

[bigwilly]

Doesn't it depend on whether the beneficiary is Thai or farang and whether it is a spouse or not?

I can't see a Thai spouse having to bring in cash to receive a condo from her husband in a will.

Plz be more specific as to who the beneficiary is to be.

Card.

Exactly right, if the beneficiary is Thai there is no requirement for evidence of an inward remittance, to transfer ownership.

Regarding the excecutor and beneficiary , that in this case was decided to be his wife by the Judge at Chonburi Provincial Court, if no Last Will and Testament it falls under the Laws of the land and inheritance laws in Thailand, where the dependants need to have it decided by the Courts who indeed is to benefit from the deceased asset's, in this case the Judge awarded in favour of his wife. A spouse other than lawful wife I feel would have a battle to get the asset's and need a Lawyer or a Will.

BW

[Maestro]

From the OP, posted by Delight:

...the beneficiary of a condo, via inheritance, has to transfer funds into Thailand. The amount of these funds has to be equivalent to the appraised value of the condo...

Delight, please give your source for this statement.

[bigwilly]

Ok, so if I understand it correctly, if you inherit a condo, you will be listed on the back of the land title deed as executor of this particular asset.

You apparently need a court order signed by a judge to do this.

It seems the 1 year rule is only in place if the executor is a foreigner and not when the executor is Thai.

So in short, if you plan on selling the condo, there is no issue whatsoever apart from having the limited 1 year timeframe to do so.

If you want to keep the condo, you apparently have to bring in funds to the tune of he appraised value of the condo, transfer the condo into your own name, and basically as both executor (seller) and buyer pay yourself for the asset

The only drawback being having to import funds you likely won't need in Thailand, with all currency exchange costs and risks. And of course having such funds available to do so. If you do not have said funds you might end up having to sell an asset you'd rather have kept!

monty

The excecutor was placed on the back of the Title deeds not the beneficiary although in this case they were one and the same person,the Court order was required to do this, the Land office said there was no time limit for the excecutor to transfer to anothers name, and didn't say it was any different for Thai or Ferang, with the exception the ferang would need a FCTF to transfer the asset into a ferang name whether it was a buyer or beneficiary. There are several options for a ferang to obtain the required Foreign Currency Transaction Form, which I won't discuss here.

BW

[Maestro]

For a moment I thought that bigwilly's post relating the events following the inheritance of condos by the Thai wife of a foreigner were off topic but then I re-read the opening post of this topic and realised it mentions the nationality of neither the person who owned the condo and died nor the person who inherited the condo or to whom it was bequeathed. Therefore, the incongruous claim made in the opening post must be taken to apply to all possible permutations of inheriting a condo:

1. Thai inherits from Thai
2. Thai inherits from foreigner
3. foreigner inherits from Thai
4. foreigner inherits from foreigner

[dighambara]

I would just like to chuck in my own experience here in Pattaya this year, my friend was killed in an accident late last year, thai wife and kids legally married overseas and registered here in Thailand. He died intestate with 4 condos in Pattaya and numerous bank accounts both here and Bangkok. We went to Chonburi Provincial Court and submitted all the required documents, "too many to mention here" after about 6 weeks the Judge issued a single sheet of paper which identified his wife as Excecutor of his Thai asset's and beneficiary of all those assets, the Banks all immediately closed each account turned over the proceeds of each and all accounts to his excecutor in cash with a each Bank retaining a copy of the Court paper and copy of ID Card of his executor. Next stop Land Office! His excecutor (wife) was immediately listed as such on the back of the Chanot's X 4 no charge for this, the 4 chanot's were still in the name of the deceased, we were told that she could transfer the ownership to Thai no problem, but foreign ownership would be lost, if she sold to a ferang the new ferang would need a Foreign Currency Certificate to the Appraised value, set by the land office, she was also told that there was no limit to the time she can remain on the back of the chanot as excecutor and was free to sell at anytime if she wished. One unit was sold in March this year there was no problem getting a free of debt letter from the Juristic Person, and then transferring the condo from the deceased name to the new foreign buyer's name. We did ask about the suggested 1 year rule and were assured there is no such law applicable here. I think the OP from DELIGHT has it all pretty much right. The above was my personal experience here, rest assured the Thai Court was quick and efficient all was sorted without a Lawyer, unlike in Australia where a Lawyer is still seeking probate for asset's in Australia, Letters Of Administration, via the Supreme Court Of NSW. As we all know there are several ways to obtain the Foreign Currency Certificate and there are many ways to get funds out of Thailand if need be.

I hope this post may put a different view here. We should all make a Will and be prepared, the end will come for us all, it is just when that's the unanswered bit.

Regards To all BW.

HMMM - I bought a condo and used funds in a local bank. I have no recollection of any discussion of a Foreign Currency Certificate. Basically, they wanted to sell and I had money - everything done in 48 hours.

Edited May 25, 2013 by dighambara

[vhartling]

I believe that there is a way to avoid the issue of inheritance. You can go to the Land Registry Office, while you are still alive, and for a fee have anyone you want added to the ownership of the condo. I think that the fee is about 10,000 baht. The only catch is that the person you want to add must accompany you to the Land Registry Office.

[LeeThayer]

To the original post, a condo does not have a chanote title, a condo is a lease. If someone told you that you have a chanote title, they are wrong.

A chanote title is for land, which a foriegner cannot own.

[Delight]

From the OP, posted by Delight:

...the beneficiary of a condo, via inheritance, has to transfer funds into Thailand. The amount of these funds has to be equivalent to the appraised value of the condo...

Delight, please give your source for this statement.

A web site is:

http://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/condo-inheritance.html

Part of the text reads

The not so foreign friendly Thailand Condominium Act: inheritance of a condo by a foreigner.

CONDOMINIUM INHERITANCE. Foreign ownership of condos inThailand is restricted to foreigners who qualify under section 19 of the Thailand Condominium Act (foreign ownership), but the fact that a foreign individual qualified for ownership of a condominium in Thailand does not qualify his foreign heirs or successors for ownership. Basically the right of foreign freehold ownership ends at death of the foreigner who qualified for ownership under the Condominium Act. Foreign freehold ownership of a condominium is not automatically transferable by inheritance to another foreigner. The Condo Act deals with inheritance of a condominium unit by foreign nationals in section 19/5 (under 1) andsection 19/7 of the Condominium Act. Only foreigners who qualify under section 19 of the Condominium Act are eligible and allowed to register ownership of the inherited condominium apartment unit within the 49% foreign ownership quota of the condominium (as specified in section 19/2 (bis) of the Condominium Act B.E.2522).

Who (foreigners) qualifies for ownership of a condo in Thailand

Condos in Thailand may be inherited by foreigners through testamentary or intestate succession, however, in order to legally register ownership of the unit with

the Land Department a foreign successor of a condo must submit proof that he qualifies for ownership under section 19 of the Condominium Act. Under section

19 only the following foreigners qualify for condominium ownership registration:

1.

Foreigners permitted to have residence in the Kingdom under the Immigration law;

2.Foreigners permitted to enter into the Kingdom under the investment promotion law;

3.

Juristic persons as provided in Section 97 and 98 of the Land Code and registered as juristic persons under Thai law;

4.

Juristic persons which are foreigners under the Announcement of the National Executive Council No.281 dated November 24, B.E. 2515 (note: repealed by the foreigner definition in section 4 of the Foreign Business Act) and have obtained promotion certificate under investment promotion law;

5.Foreigners or juristic persons regarded by law as foreigners who have brought in foreign currency into the Kingdom or withdraw money from Thai baht account of the

person who have residence outside the Kingdom or withdraw money from a foreign currency account.

Qualified and unqualified foreign heirs for ownership of a condo

Section 19/5 of the Condominium Act permits qualified

foreigners (section 19 first paragraph above) to register ownership of the condominium unit acquired by inheritance, as long as the registration does not exceed the 49% foreign ownership quota within the condominium. Condominium Act,

Section 19/7 of the condominium Act deals with unqualified foreigners (i.e. not listed in section 19, 1 to 5 as listed above). Other foreigners inheriting

a condo must sell the unit within 1 year of the acquisition of the unit by inheritance.

Ineligible foreign heirs of condominiums

In case of an unqualified foreign heir of a condominium apartment unit the solution could be to become qualified undersection 19, e.g he buys the condominium out of the estate for a price at least equal to the government appraised value. In this case he must transfer foreign currency into Thailand equal to the appraised value and exchange it to Thai baht and pay transfer taxes. By exchanging the amount of foreign currency into Thai baht inside Thailand he is able to show a FET-form and qualifies for ownership

registration under section 19 No. 5 of the Condominium Act.

When it comes to inheritance by foreigners the Condominium Act is not foreign friendly and in general foreign heirs mustdispose of the unit acquired by last will or succession laws within

1 year of the date of acquisition by inheritance. If the successor fails to dispose of the condo the Director-General of the Land Department is authorized to dispose of the condominium and retain a fee of 5% of the sale price before any deductions or taxes.

[Maestro]

Thank you, Delight. This serves as an excellent basis for a scholarly discussion.

An English translation of the full text of the Condomimium Act 2522 (1979) updated with all amendments until 2008 can be found here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/320264-the-condominium-act-and-definition-of-a-condominium-in-thailand/page-2?p=3326881#entry3326881

From what I can see it is not a particularly good translation and in case of uncertainty the original Thai text should be referred to, of which I unfortunately have no copy with amendments.

[BahBahBoBo]

Thank you, Delight. This serves as an excellent basis for a scholarly discussion.

An English translation of the full text of the Condomimium Act 2522 (1979) updated with all amendments until 2008 can be found here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/320264-the-condominium-act-and-definition-of-a-condominium-in-thailand/page-2?p=3326881#entry3326881

From what I can see it is not a particularly good translation and in case of uncertainty the original Thai text should be referred to, of which I unfortunately have no copy with amendments.

Just enjoy your time in thailand, enjoy your condo, and leave it in a will to some lovely thai who brings smiles to your life. Very simple. Just don't let them know or your timely demise might be 'more' timely

[sotsira]

To the original post, a condo does not have a chanote title, a condo is a lease. If someone told you that you have a chanote title, they are wrong.

A chanote title is for land, which a foriegner cannot own.

I,ve owned a few condo's in the last 10 years here, they all were owned in my name and had chanotes verifying

this with my name on them. So your post is completely incorrect.

A lease agreement can be made between the owner of a condo and the leaseholder but that is another document

drawn up by a lawyer called a lease.

[Langsuan Man]

HMMM - I bought a condo and used funds in a local bank. I have no recollection of any discussion of a Foreign Currency Certificate. Basically, they wanted to sell and I had money - everything done in 48 hours.

Don't worry if you want to sell it and transfer the money out of Thailand you will have plenty of discussion about the Foreign Currency Certificate or the lack thereof

[overherebc]

HMMM - I bought a condo and used funds in a local bank. I have no recollection of any discussion of a Foreign Currency Certificate. Basically, they wanted to sell and I had money - everything done in 48 hours.

Don't worry if you want to sell it and transfer the money out of Thailand you will have plenty of discussion about the Foreign Currency Certificate or the lack thereof

Who legally owns the Condo then ?

[belg]

i read alot how it is difficult or impossible to send money to your home country... but what if it is your wife that sends the money (yours, transferred to her bank account) abroad to your home country's bank ... that cannot be a problem, right ?

[Spoonman]

i read alot how it is difficult or impossible to send money to your home country... but what if it is your wife that sends the money (yours, transferred to her bank account) abroad to your home country's bank ... that cannot be a problem, right ?

As per the thread title you would have inherited the condo I assume the wife is dead........... this would make it difficult for her to send the money.

[Postmaster]

BahbahBobo. You have it right dead on. Add me to that.