Question Regarding Divorce From Thai Wife.....

[BKS22]

I will preface this and say, that I am only asking said questions to be informed and "prepared". I also realize that I'm probably opening myself up for some sarcastic remarks and ribbing. I'll just say that informative & experienced replies are appreciated!

I will be marrying my Thai GF in 2 weeks in Thailand by way of a Thai ceremony....and then following that up a couple days later with a documented marriage at the government court house in BKK.

A week later I will be returning to America and will begin the process to bring her stateside on a CR-1 visa.

My question is: god forbid the relationship goes south while in that States....and leads to separation and divorce. What would I have to do? Would I...or she...file the papers for divorce in America? Or do they needed to be filed in Thailand as well? Is it a difficult process?

Final question: If she returned to Thailand...is she eligible to get alimony from me?

As I said...I just want to know in advance. I love my GF very much and she loves me....but I've been down the marriage road before under the same feelings and no one can predict the future.

Thanks in advance,

B-

[Pormax]

I see you have had no replies.

Unfortunately I can not help you as I am not American. So not sure what you have to do.

I know it is straight forward and (too) easy to divorce if you are both in Thailand but if you are in the USA haven't a clue.

My reason for replying is that it would bring your topic back near the top of the 'New Content' list and hopefully someone with knowledge in this area could help, as it seemsyour questions are reasonable.

[Mario2008]

You could divorce in the US. The question if you would have to pay alimony is determined by state law, so it really depends on where you would live and best asked from a lawyer in your state.

P.S. You do not get married at a Thai court, you go to the district office with documents from your embassy to get married.

[BKS22]

I see you have had no replies.

Unfortunately I can not help you as I am not American. So not sure what you have to do.

I know it is straight forward and (too) easy to divorce if you are both in Thailand but if you are in the USA haven't a clue.

My reason for replying is that it would bring your topic back near the top of the 'New Content' list and hopefully someone with knowledge in this area could help, as it seemsyour questions are reasonable.

Thanks Pormax

[BKS22]

You could divorce in the US. The question if you would have to pay alimony is determined by state law, so it really depends on where you would live and best asked from a lawyer in your state.

P.S. You do not get married at a Thai court, you go to the district office with documents from your embassy to get married.

But alimony is ONLY necessary should the other spouse seek it & file for it correct?

Yes...that is right....the District Office. Thank you for the reply Mario.

[Mario2008]

Yes, she would need to file for it.

[eezergood]

I think this is one of the more sensible & brutally honest questions i've seen here for a while. This is a question I think most of us, me certainly, have asked ourselves. Well done to the OP & good luck your future wife budy.

[patongphil]

Probably be better in the marriage and divorce forum.

[BKS22]

Probably be better in the marriage and divorce forum.

My apologies....I just saw the word marriage under the 'Family & Children' description and I overlooked the specific 'Marriage & Divorce' sub forum. If an Admin or Mod could please move this for I would appreciate it.

[Mario2008]

Moved to marriage and divorce forum.

[Headgame]

Easy. Get a pre-nup agreement. If you've been married before that's something you should understand.

[Mario2008]

Easy. Get a pre-nup agreement. If you've been married before that's something you should understand.

A pre-nup is not always honoured by a judge, depending on the law of the country/state you are in.

Secondly a pre-nup must be uderstood by both parties or it could be void. idealy both parties have their own legal counsil, so they understand what they sign.

[commande]

If you get married in Thailand the Federal and State governments in the USA have no jurisdiction over the divorce, you can't get divorced in America you would have to return to Thailand. This is actually a good thing because it protects you as the Thai laws are different than the American laws whereas in America the courts generally award everything to the girl and the guy gets cleaned up, in Thailand it's 50/50 and there is no such thing as alimony or maintenance, I understand there is child support but it's nothing compared to the USA. To expand on this, any assets you obtain during the divorce that are held outside Thailand can't be considered during the divorce in Thailand because Thailand has no jurisdiction in the USA.

Same goes the other way, USA has no jurisdiction over Thailand or your assets contained within, there is no way to enforce a judgment for assets in another country unless they are tied to a corporate governance such as a business you own. I would definitely get a prenump in Thailand, they are rock solid written in blood when signed here, in the USA 50/50 the courts will throw them out. This will also tell you if she is serious, if so she will sign, if not she was looking for something else long term, take a guess at what that might be.

The Visa you should apply for after you marry in Thailand is a K-3 Non-Immigrant Visa, you can find the details for this visa on the State Department website, they are designed specifically for this type of issue. It's not a marriage Visa, you would already be married so there is no reason for a marriage visa. A CR-1 Visa can be obtained for change in status for her if you want the marriage legally recognized in the USA which opens you up to a divorce in the USA legally; I would avoid this if possible. You can on your taxes every year still claim being married or as having a dependent for the deductions, its a foreign marriage so it's not an issue at this time, laws subject to change as they always do.

It can take up to or over a year to get her a K-3 Visa to the USA, point in fact is they all take time, even a K-1 Marriage Visa to the USA can take a year or longer, sometimes less but rare. You will have an interesting journey ahead of you.

Good luck.

Edited June 4, 2013 by commande

[Mario2008]

Above information is incorrect. A foreign marriage can be disolved in any US-state, as long as the marriage meets the standerds for a marriage of that state.

[commande]

Above information is incorrect. A foreign marriage can be disolved in any US-state, as long as the marriage meets the standerds for a marriage of that state.

Not with a foreign internationally recognized prenuptial agreement that states a dissolution of marriage must be obtained in the country it was issued, I know this because I am in the same situation and had 3 lawyers and a state judge in Texas tell me the same thing ... She would not be going to the USA under a Marriage Visa, a K-3 is a Non-Immigrant Visa designed to reunite foreign family members.

Edited June 4, 2013 by commande

[Mario2008]

That is different from what you originally wrote.

If you get married in Thailand the Federal and State governments in the USA have no jurisdiction over the divorce, you can't get divorced in America you would have to return to Thailand.

And I wouldn't be sure that every state would honour such agreement in a prenup.

[commande]

That is different from what you originally wrote.

If you get married in Thailand the Federal and State governments in the USA have no jurisdiction over the divorce, you can't get divorced in America you would have to return to Thailand.

And I wouldn't be sure that every state would honour such agreement in a prenup.

True, in reality everything is grey even when it comes to law but doing everything you can to protect yourself is a good thing. This is why I stated get a prenuptial agreement although admittedly my sentence structure was befuddling even to me after I read it again, I need some coffee ...

[Nowhereman60]

If you get married in Thailand the Federal and State governments in the USA have no jurisdiction over the divorce, you can't get divorced in America you would have to return to Thailand.

100% wrong wrong wrong.

[Jasun]

If you get married in Thailand, there's an option to write up a list of what's your and hers on the back of the marriage certificate itself. You get to keep whatever is on that list if you get divorced. It won't cover assets gained after the wedding.

[BKS22]

I appreciate the replies so far guys. I'm just taking it all in and trying to decipher which facts fit my situation. I feel a bit confused now for the recommendation to get a K-3 visa instead of CR-1 visa

[BKS22]

If you get married in Thailand the Federal and State governments in the USA have no jurisdiction over the divorce, you can't get divorced in America you would have to return to Thailand.

100% wrong wrong wrong.

Can you elaborate please?

[commande]

You are going to get a myriad of opinions here with no real experience which makes it vary hard to figure out what is correct and what isn't... This is more a legal issue and you need the correct information. Most people here are not from the USA and have no idea about USA law they are from the UK and other countries, not even close to the same.

I recommend the following to you and it is the safest thing for you to do so you get the correct information the first time.

Get a lawyer, actually get 2, one in Thailand and one in the USA, compare what they say. Tell them what you want and that you want to be protected and what is the best way to do get that done. Yes you will spend some money but in the end nothing is free that is generally worth anything and this is your future so you want to be sure what information you get is correct. Here on TV, it's opinion and bar stool lawyers, even I don't know it all but I know more about USA law because I am from the USA and am married to a Thai. I think after you get legal advise you will have all the answers you need and can move forward without any confusion. You might even find some things that are said here are correct and many things are incorrect.

You will also be able to come back here and let us know what you where told if you want to.

Good luck to you and all the best.

I will lastly add based on your question above about elaboration of wrong wrong wrong... You know why you can't get divorced in the USA if your married in another country, because there is no legal document to cancel or contest UNLESS the courts prior legally recognize the foreign marriage license which is the grey area so to speak. Example: In Thailand, you get married, you get divorced in the USA, Thailand isn't going to recognize the divorce because it's not registered. This is a very simple example. There are many Thai girls separated from their foreign husbands in Thailand and they can't get married to anyone else because they can't get that foreigner to come back to Thailand for the divorce. Yes I know several in this situation... One being from Australia but different law so doesn't apply here.

Edited June 4, 2013 by commande

[BKS22]

You are going to get a myriad of opinions here with no real experience which makes it vary hard to figure out what is correct and what isn't... This is more a legal issue and you need the correct information. Most people here are not from the USA and have no idea about USA law they are from the UK and other countries, not even close to the same.

I recommend the following to you and it is the safest thing for you to do so you get the correct information the first time.

Get a lawyer, actually get 2, one in Thailand and one in the USA, compare what they say. Tell them what you want and that you want to be protected and what is the best way to do get that done. Yes you will spend some money but in the end nothing is free that is generally worth anything and this is your future so you want to be sure what information you get is correct. Here on TV, it's opinion and bar stool lawyers, even I don't know it all but I know more about USA law because I am from the USA and am married to a Thai. I think after you get legal advise you will have all the answers you need and can move forward without any confusion.

You will also be able to come back here and let us know what you where told if you want to.

Good luck to you and all the best.

Good advice....and I will report back what I find out.

[willyumiii]

STOP!

Let's talk about getting married before the divorce.

I am an American with a Thai wife. I did it like you plan to do and it was a mistake.

If you get married before applying for her visa to the U.S., they ( immigration, homeland security and the state dept.) intentionally slow the process assumming that many Thais marry Americans to get into the U.S. and then disappear.

I did everything to the letter and it took almost three years to get my wife's visa after we were married in Thailand! We applied the day after our wedding. It also cost me a few thousand US D more as well.

All three agencies will claim not to have received documents they require to send ( even tho I had sent them registered mail and had confirmation of delivery).

Twice all three agencies claimed to not have the same document. And yes, all three agencies will require their own copy of the same document as well.

They then require you to resend the same documents, pay the fees again ( some $200+ us d) and then wait sometimes up to 3 months again to see

if they are approved! You can see how this can really extend the amount of time required to get the visa. Three three month delays....an extra 9 months!

I was almost ready to get my wife into Mexico and walk her across the border when it was finaly approved in 2 years and 10 monhts' ( while in the US. many Mexicans thought she looked Hispanic and would walk up and start speaking Spanish to her! lol )

My advice to you is to hold off on the marriage for now, apply for a " fiancee visa" ( sp? ). Take her to the U.S. and marry her there. Then you can get her perm resident visa after you are married in the states.

I have met others who had the exact same problems I had after getting married first. Even the same documents were lost!

We all agree, it is much faster and cost much less to get her to the states first, and then marry her.

Get this done correctly..and next time we can talk about divorce my friend.

Chok dee! ( good luck )

Edited June 4, 2013 by willyumiii

[BKS22]

STOP!

Let's talk about getting married before the divorce.

I am an American with a Thai wife. I did it like you plan to do and it was a mistake.

If you get married before applying for her visa to the U.S., they ( immigration, homeland security and the state dept.) intentionally slow the process assumming that many Thais marry Americans to get into the U.S. and then disappear.

I did everything to the letter and it took almost three years to get my wife's visa after we were married in Thailand! We applied the day after our wedding. It also cost me a few thousand US D more as well.

All three agencies will claim not to have received documents they require to send ( even tho I had sent them registered mail and had confirmation of delivery).

Twice all three agencies claimed to not have the same document. And yes, all three agencies will require their own copy of the same document as well.

They then require you to resend the same documents, pay the fees again ( some $200+ us d) and then wait sometimes up to 3 months again to see

if they are approved! You can see how this can really extend the amount of time required to get the visa. Three three month delays....an extra 9 months!

I was almost ready to get my wife into Mexico and walk her across the border when it was finaly approved in 2 years and 10 monhts' ( while in the US. many Mexicans thought she looked Hispanic and would walk up and start speaking Spanish to her! lol )

My advice to you is to hold off on the marriage for now, apply for a " fiancee visa" ( sp? ). Take her to the U.S. and marry her there. Then you can get her perm resident visa after you are married in the states.

I have met others who had the exact same problems I had after getting married first. Even the same documents were lost!

We all agree, it is much faster and cost much less to get her to the states first, and then marry her.

Get this done correctly..and next time we can talk about divorce my friend.

Chok dee! ( good luck )

WOW! Sorry to hear about your lengthy ordeal. Good to hear it all finally worked out for you. And I really appreciate your reply.

But isn't a CR-1 visa in fact a form of a "marriage visa"? I thought it was very similar to a K-1, only the CR-1 requires multiple guarantors?

Really what I want to know is, if I go to the District Office in Bangkok and sign the papers there to make it "official" in Thailand...will it also then be recognized and "official" in the States????

Thanks again,

Brian

Edited June 4, 2013 by BKS22

[Nowhereman60]

<------- married in Thailand divorced in the USA, now married in Thailand. So don't tell me you can't get divorced in USA, Copy of Divorced was included in paperwork to get married here. So what do you think about that.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Nowhereman60

[Mario2008]

Several posts deleted as off topic. No need to start an argument.

[Jamie]

STOP!

Let's talk about getting married before the divorce.

I am an American with a Thai wife. I did it like you plan to do and it was a mistake.

If you get married before applying for her visa to the U.S., they ( immigration, homeland security and the state dept.) intentionally slow the process assumming that many Thais marry Americans to get into the U.S. and then disappear.

I did everything to the letter and it took almost three years to get my wife's visa after we were married in Thailand! We applied the day after our wedding. It also cost me a few thousand US D more as well.

All three agencies will claim not to have received documents they require to send ( even tho I had sent them registered mail and had confirmation of delivery).

Twice all three agencies claimed to not have the same document. And yes, all three agencies will require their own copy of the same document as well.

They then require you to resend the same documents, pay the fees again ( some $200+ us d) and then wait sometimes up to 3 months again to see

if they are approved! You can see how this can really extend the amount of time required to get the visa. Three three month delays....an extra 9 months!

I was almost ready to get my wife into Mexico and walk her across the border when it was finaly approved in 2 years and 10 monhts' ( while in the US. many Mexicans thought she looked Hispanic and would walk up and start speaking Spanish to her! lol )

My advice to you is to hold off on the marriage for now, apply for a " fiancee visa" ( sp? ). Take her to the U.S. and marry her there. Then you can get her perm resident visa after you are married in the states.

I have met others who had the exact same problems I had after getting married first. Even the same documents were lost!

We all agree, it is much faster and cost much less to get her to the states first, and then marry her.

Get this done correctly..and next time we can talk about divorce my friend.

Chok dee! ( good luck )

WOW! Sorry to hear about your lengthy ordeal. Good to hear it all finally worked out for you. And I really appreciate your reply.

But isn't a CR-1 visa in fact a form of a "marriage visa"? I thought it was very similar to a K-1, only the CR-1 requires multiple guarantors?

Really what I want to know is, if I go to the District Office in Bangkok and sign the papers there to make it "official" in Thailand...will it also then be recognized and "official" in the States????

Thanks again,

Brian

My wife came over on a K-1 visa. At the time (this was 2008), the processing times for a CR-1 visa were shorter. If you get married in Thailand, the CR-1 visa means the US recognizes your marriage that took place in Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If you get married in Thailand, there's an option to write up a list of what's your and hers on the back of the marriage certificate itself. You get to keep whatever is on that list if you get divorced. It won't cover assets gained after the wedding.

I'm an American, and I've been spending a lot of time lately trying to understand how family law operates in Thailand and vis-a-vie the U.S.

Generally, above, AFAIK, Mario has been giving good advice. The U.S. -- and what that really means is U.S. states -- will generally recognize legal marriages performed in other countries. For Thailand, legal means a marriage registered at the Amphur Office here. Village wedding ceremonies are meaningless in legal terms.

In terms of divorce, a person married Thailand can either file for divorce in Thailand or in the U.S. But divorces in the U.S. are done at the state level. And in many/most states, there is some residency requirement in order for one party to file for divorce in that state.

In Texas, for example, which is a community property state, at least one of the two parties to the marriage has to have been living in the state for the prior 6 months before being able to file for divorce there. If neither party has been living in the state, then you can't file for divorce there in state court.

But as I mentioned above, different states may have different eligibility requirements to file for divorce and difference residency requirements in order to do so.

From a division of property perspective, under Thai family law, assets held by one party prior to marriage are generally considered their separate assets in a subsequent divorce. Likewise under Thai family law, assets acquired during the marriage are generally considered marital and community property, unless they were acquired entirely with separate assets.

U.S. community property states like California and Texas have similar provisions to those in Thailand, in that they also generally regard a person's assets held prior to marriage as being their own separate property in a subsequent divorce. So you don't really have to specifically list your pre-marriage assets on a Thai marriage certificate in order to receive that protection, though perhaps doing so wouldn't hurt.

But here's the question I haven't quite been able to sort out yet... Say a couple gets married in Thailand, then later moves to the U.S. and gets divorced in the U.S. Different U.S.states have widely varying laws on division of property.

So in that situation being a divorce in the U.S., would the division of property be governed by Thai family law because that's where the marriage occurred, or by the family law of the state in the U.S.where the divorce is being filed??? My guess is, it's the jurisdiction where the divorce is being filed whose laws would govern the division of property -- as well as issues like alimony and child support.

Thus, since a lot of U.S. states probably have more rigorous requirements than Thailand in terms of alimony (Thailand has none) and child support, in general, a divorce filed in Thailand is probably going to be more advantageous from the man's perspective, again, depending on the state of divorce.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I should add... an even more complicated issue appears to be what effect either a Thai or U.S. divorce can have on financial or property assets held in the other country.

From everything I've read, going one way, U.S. civil court judgments are not automatically enforceable in Thailand. There is no treaty providing for such between the two countries. So in the event of a U.S. divorce where Thai assets are involved, supposedly, what the party would have to do is file a separate court action in a Thai court and then use the U.S. divorce court judgment and property settlement as evidence in the Thai court in pursuit of a Thai court judgement.

I believe, the same process would need to be followed in reverse in the event of a Thai divorce court judgment seeking control over U.S.-held assets. From everything I've read, U.S. courts generally will abide by foreign court judgments, but are not required to do so, and a main issue is always satisfying the U.S. judge that U.S. due process requirements were honored in the foreign court proceeding.

The latter issue -- how a Thai divorce can impact U.S. held assets -- is an issue I'm hoping to get some direct legal advice on in the near future.