Surrounded By "enemy" Nationals On A Baht Bus; Confused As To Proper Etiquette

[mopar71]

Could have been worse, they could have thought you were gay!

True, "death to the Great Satan" chants are preferred to being stoned to death.

[mopar71]

As an American, I've seen allot of attitude from the English and would avoid a group of drunk Englishmen before I would shy away from some Iranians.

The Iranians I have encountered have all been civilized.

I agree. The odds of an American getting into trouble with a group of drunken Englishmen is greater than with a group of drunken Iranians. Sometimes your own family and friends are more critical than your own enemies/opponents.

[BookMan]

Just to mix it up a little...

What would happen if Israel and America bombed a suspected Nuclear plant in Iran and instead hit a hospital or orphanage (pick your own heart wrencher), then the next day a group of Iranians hops on a baht bus and an Israeli and an American are on the bus.?

Would the Iranian's take out their anger on the Israeli and American?

[Jingthing]

Just to mix it up a little...

What would happen if Israel and America bombed a suspected Nuclear plant in Iran and instead hit a hospital or orphanage (pick your own heart wrencher), then the next day a group of Iranians hops on a baht bus and an Israeli and an American are on the bus.?

Would the Iranian's take out their anger on the Israeli and American?

Greater chance than right now. Obviously. But the terminally naive will still insist that international politics is ALWAYS irrelevant in party town Pattaya. Tell that to the legless Iranian man who partied here before his brush with infamy in Bangkok.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[toenail]

This macho crap is ridiculous. If you can avoid provoking a crowd of drunk people to beat you up, you avoid it. Some people would have lied about their politics but I just wasn't up to that. I didn't board that bus to get into a sensitive political debate with a gang of drunks. I boarded it to get to where I was going. PERIOD. I am open to PLEASANT socializing on the bus but what was put into my face there was the opposite of pleasant.

You think way too much. (And then post about it way too much, too) When cornered in this discussion on personal xenophobia and general ignorance you tell us time and again they were big and drunk, thinking it will all make sense again. What you're doing though is muddying the topic away from the original title/intent: "Enemy" nationals and wondering about etiquette. It's either one or the other: Yes, when surrounded by (potentially) aggressive drunks from any nationality (very much including my/your own) you avoid too much conversation; nothing wrong with that and almost goes without saying. But when on a bus with a couple Iranians who aren't overly drunk, that's the main question isn't it?

I've been in that exact situation with a bunch of Iranians and guess what: I made polite conversation. They didn't bring up politics. By the looks of things, politics was not what brought them to Pattaya, and neither was it for me. At that moment we had a lot more in common than set us apart.

Another thing, I think the media in the US (I'd say mainstream, but it's pretty much all media) are doing a lousy job of equipping Americans with even the most basic of understanding of countries, cultures and people outside of the US. It's mostly sensationalism and fear mongering. Guess what, Iran is a very large and extremely diverse country. The kind of urban / middle class demographic that can travel to Pattaya is highly unlikely to hold fundamentalist religious/political views. In that sense it's not too dissimilar from the US/European demographic that travels to Thailand. Geopolitics is just about the last thing on their mind.

BTW, I'm HAPPY people from all over the world travel to Thailand; I love meeting people from other places, it's one of the things that makes Pattaya unique. I'd actually love to visit Iran too. I think it's safe to say that just about anything Westerners think they know about Iran, is wrong.

**************************************************************

I didn't know this until I lived overseas but people in the United States are not aware about world events or even world geography,( which I was like before traveling). Part of it has to do with the USA location- oceans on both sides, a country very similar to ours (Canada ) and then there is Mexico. Though the USA is a bit isolated from other continents, the media seems to focus mostly on domestic news and not much on international news since Americans don't have an interest in it. Also, when I was in school it seemd the only ones that taught world history and geography were the PE teachers or coaches that taught these subjects, not knowing the difference between Taiwan and Thailand. (sorry to offend American coaches). Note: Maybe America was able to get away of focussing on itself in the 50's, 60's and 70's when it was one of the only "advanced" countries but now it is NO LONGER like that. It is no longer number one in technology , education, or creative ideas. When I went back to the States to visit last year, I was surprised how the little news mentioned on the morning talk shows did not cover world events but instead showed the most popular youtube clip or some worthless news item from a gossip website. So I feel Americans are becoming more ignorant about the world and only get their impressions from Hollywood films and headlines. It isn't their fault but a product of their environment.

[Jingthing]

Whether Americans and Iranians or any other nationality are ill informed or not about world affairs (some are, some aren't) the fact remains there IS a soft war between the USA and Iran going on.

The topic is not about how stupid Americans are -- America bashing, the gift that keeps on giving to those so inclined -- but rather about nationals of nations in various levels of CONFLICT mixing here in Pattaya.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[Cuban]

You hear that sound?

Someone caring about this indulgent rant with NOWHERE to go or a gnat farting - either way the same energy expended in both events.

.....zzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZ !

[petercool]

Whatever posters may feel or think, I certainly thought the original key topic was a step up from threads asking where to buy 2b pencils in Pattaya or discussing the price of baked beans at Tesco or similar non thought provoking issues.

[PREM-R]

As a rule of thumb, if you think that Iran is pronounced 'Eye-ran' probably best to keep your mouth shut, look down at the floor and hope to reach your destination as soon as possible.

[Jingthing]

As a rule of thumb, if you think that Iran is pronounced 'Eye-ran' probably best to keep your mouth shut, look down at the floor and hope to reach your destination as soon as possible.

I think in the case of my baht bus thingie such minutiae would hardly matter when weighed against one of the Persians calling an early middle aged Russian woman: BABUSHKA!

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[StreetCowboy]

I suppose one pub is much like any other. The bar I used to drink in in Dubai was frequented by dhow mariners en route to and from the small ports of Iran, and also Halliburton chaps en route to Iraq to plunder American tax-payers and I never saw any trouble there. To be fair, both groups were a minority in comparison to the Arabs in traditional dress who came in to strike up conversation or otherwise with the ladies from former soviet socialist republics.

SC

[Jingthing]

You hear that sound?

Someone caring about this indulgent rant with NOWHERE to go or a gnat farting - either way the same energy expended in both events.

.....zzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZ !

The topic is so sleep inducing to you, but you can't seem to stay away from it.

Curious.

[transam]

OP, dismiss it. Where ever you are on the planet there will/may be an ''enemy''.

[WaywardWind]

Not to be nasty, but what does it say if you have to lie about your nationality?

Means you have to lie about it in Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, and lots of other countries.

You're wrong. Cambodia and Vietnam are not in current wars/soft wars with the USA. North Korea, Americans can't travel there anyway, so, so what?

I did travel to North Vietnam long ago back when there weren't many American tourists yet. I was the star of the show and was given lots and lots of special attention. The question I got all the time was: why aren't MORE of you Americans visiting? I felt they should be mad, but they weren't. Yes I was fed some propaganda, but that wasn't a problem for me with my background as an anti-Vietnam war protester. They wanted more American tourists and I think since then, they've gotten them.

Unless you traveled prior to 30 April 1975, then you went to Vietnam, not to "North Vietnam' which ceased to exist as of that day.

[Hedghog]

The most embarrassing thing is, that Americans are ashamed at being American.

[Jingthing]

... Personally I'm not crazy about 'Israelis'. Perhaps one in a hundred is human.

...

That was an extremely hard core bigoted comment you just made. 1 in 100 Israelis not even human? Wow! I made no such comment about Iranian people, or in fact any other people. I was commenting on a political situation and how sometimes global political situations can at least sometimes potentially bleed into experiences in Pattaya.

Amazing that you of all people have the chutzpah, who just called 99 out of 100 people from the Jewish nation non-human ANIMALS, to come on here and repeatedly name call me a racist, bigot, xenophobe, etc. for starting a very honest and sincere thread concept about political tensions.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[raro]

Several troll posts deleted along with replies.

The troll will hear from us shortly.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[raro]

Some racial slurs against Israelis and replies to it deleted as well.

The forum rules apply also to this thread.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bbradsby]

Try telling them your Jewish.

Took me a nearly a year before I told my Iraqi friend. I was pleasantly surprised by his reaction.

You just can't tell, sometimes it's best to be honest.

It took you a year to tell a friend? Okie Dokie.

Perhaps I should have announced to the drunken gang on the bus:

I'm a gay married Israeli IDF fighter pilot!

Blown opportunity JT. You had your smartphone, GPS coordinates, etc.;if notified I would have ordered a drone strike thereby eliminating potential terrorists and anything else would be considered collateral damage. Another blessing it would have brought an end to this thread.

Hey, why not stand up, scream 'Infidels!' and announce youre an undercover police working for the iatolla-arsehola and confiscate their beers in the name of everything that's holy?!

Edited June 3, 2013 by bbradsby

[Jingthing]

Post withdrawn.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[raro]

Several posts discussing a deleted post have been removed.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I think that it's time that this thread just died. It's a load of rubbish. Jingthing should be ashamed of himself. Political tensions indeed.

[Jingthing]

I think that it's time that this thread just died. It's a load of rubbish. Jingthing should be ashamed of himself. Political tensions indeed.

If you don't like any thread, you don't have to read it, you don't have to obsessively POST on it, and of course you don't have to repeatedly hurl toxic personal insults and name call at the thread creator. I can see posting once to say you hate a thread ... that's it.

I also don't care if the thread dies but for different reasons than you. My reason is that too much of the crowd here doesn't seem willing to discuss the issues presented in the thread in a civilized manner.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jiu-Jitsu]

... Personally I'm not crazy about 'Israelis'. Perhaps one in a hundred is human.

...

That was an extremely hard core bigoted comment you just made. 1 in 100 Israelis not even human? Wow! I made no such comment about Iranian people, or in fact any other people. I was commenting on a political situation and how sometimes global political situations can at least sometimes potentially bleed into experiences in Pattaya.

Amazing that you of all people have the chutzpah, who just called 99 out of 100 people from the Jewish nation non-human ANIMALS, to come on here and repeatedly name call me a racist, bigot, xenophobe, etc. for starting a very honest and sincere thread concept about political tensions.

Perhaps you can tell us of these political tensions that have sometimes occurred.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I think that it's time that this thread just died. It's a load of rubbish. Jingthing should be ashamed of himself. Political tensions indeed.

If you don't like any thread, you don't have to read it, you don't have to obsessively POST on it, and of course you don't have to repeatedly hurl toxic personal insults and name call at the thread creator. I can see posting once to say you hate a thread ... that's it.

I also don't care if the thread dies but for different reasons than you. My reason is that too much of the crowd here doesn't seem willing to discuss the issues presented in the thread in a civilized manner.

There are no issues. You have just told us that you were an unsociable coward. The rest is just spin.

[Jingthing]

Perhaps you can tell us of these political tensions that have sometimes occurred.

You twisted my statement but I will reply anyway:

As one individual I can only know my personal experiences. Now that this is on a thread, it's a chance for a larger audience to post actual experiences of that kind and/or to share perceptions of potential conflicts between nationalities here rooted in nationalistic political differences, or even wars.

My personal experiences with political tensions between/within nationalities actually erupting in Pattaya have been quite limited.

1. My condo door slammed shut hard because of the wind ... accidentally. A Belgian man down the hall, some years ago during the Iraq war, starting yelling at me, I bet you are AMERICAN, Americans don't care what they do to disturb other people! He then started shouting about the Iraq war. I told him I didn't support the Iraq war and that I probably hated Bush more than he did (that was the truth). That didn't calm him.

(BTW, at a similar time in KL Malaysia, a Muslim woman I was buying some bottled water from at a mini-mart spit in my face when I told her my nationality which she did ask about.)

A number of times Europeans have just randomly started to trash Americans to me on my condo elevator. I just smile and speak to them normally in my American accent as if they said nothing. Priceless.

2. On a baht bus, some Swedes, some young white right wing Americans and I just before the last election. The Swedes starting talking to the right wing Americans about the election who expressed support for Romney. The Swedes said they followed the election closely, that they DEEPLY cared about it, and they thought that was really stupid. I started talking to the Swedes and expressed my agreement with them and also my prediction Obama would win. The right wingers got mad, and we starting arguing. I got the last laugh on that one. As we were fellow Americans, I did not really fear from this group, and they were not drunk. I also know Americans well enough to expertly judge the potential threat from a particular group of other Americans. I don't have the skill with a foreign group; how could I?

3. I have not had any political arguments with people from the Middle East here. I regularly go the Middle Eastern restaurants DISCREETLY but I don't do shisha (cancer causing). I do not like to reveal my nationality to non-Israeli Middle Eastern people here. I just don't know their politics. I think there is sometimes a potential of conflict and I wish to avoid it. In normal situations I don't really feel there is a potential threat per se, but surrounded by a large group of Iranian drunks of unknown politics about the Middle East, yes, I DID feel some vulnerability as a gay, American pro Zionist Jew and I am not ashamed to admit it.

Not so much overall in actual conflict! I am only one person and I do generally try to AVOID any such conflicts. I'm sure if I was looking for it, rather than taking some steps to avoid it, I'd find it more. Yes I do believe and I think that I am right that AMERICAN nationality is really a red flag for a lot of people of other nationalities.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Perhaps you can tell us of these political tensions that have sometimes occurred.

You twisted my statement but I will reply anyway:

As one individual I can only know my personal experiences. Now that this is on a thread, it's a chance for a larger audience to post experiences of that kind to share any such experiences or perceptions of potential conflicts.

My personal experiences with political tensions between/within nationalities actually erupting in Pattaya have been quite limited.

1. My condo door slammed shut hard because of the wind ... accidentally. A Belgian man down the hall, some years ago during the Iraq war, starting yelling at me, I bet you are AMERICAN, Americans don't care what they do to disturb other people! He then started shouting about the Iraq war. I told him I didn't support the Iraq war and that I probably hated Bush more than he did (that was the truth). That didn't calm him.

A number of times Europeans have just randomly started to trash Americans to me on my condo elevator. I just smile and speak to them normally in my American accent as if they said nothing. Priceless.

2. On a baht bus, some Swedes, some young white right wing Americans and I just before the last election. The Swedes starting talking to the right wing Americans about the election who expressed support for Romney. The Swedes said they followed the election closely, that they DEEPLY cared about it, and they thought that was really stupid. I started talking to the Swedes and expressed my agreement with them and also my prediction Obama would win. The right wingers got mad, and we starting arguing. I got the last laugh on that one. As we were fellow Americans, I did not really fear from this group, and they were not drunk. I also know Americans being well enough to expertly judge the potential threat from a particular group of other Americans. I don't have the skill with a foreign group; how could I?

3. I have not had any political arguments with people from the Middle East here. I regularly go the Middle Eastern restaurants but I don't do shisha (cancer causing). I do not like to reveal my nationality to non-Israeli Middle Eastern people here. I just don't know their politics. I think there is sometime a potential of conflict and I wish to avoid it. In normal situations I don't really feel there is a potential threat per se, but surrounded by a large group of Iranian drunks of unknown politics about the Middle East, yes, I DID feel some vulnerability as a gay, American pro Zionist Jew and I am not ashamed to admit it.

Not so much overall in actual conflict! I am only one person and I do generally try to AVOID any such conflicts. I'm sure if I was looking for it, I'd find it more.

Indeed many were incensed by the attack on Iraq. Have you ever had a harsh word from an Iraqi? Your whole premise is a nonsense and you simply are not man enough to admit it.

Americans and Israelis have a poor stereotype in many places around the world. You are simply reinforcing them.

You began a thread to garner opinion and that is exactly what you have received. So take it like a man and stop wriggling. Singing happy Iranians, to aggressive drunks? Please. Stop digging.

[Jingthing]

Honestly I have never been aware of meeting an Iraqi person! Many Iranians of course. I'm sure I must have encountered Iraqi person but I just wasn't aware of it. That would be awkward for me I think in different ways. I didn't support the Bush war but I reckon some Iraqis did and there is no way I would know meeting random Iraqis what their politics were. Are there many Iraqis visiting Pattaya? I can't tell. Iranians I can tell right away as I know the sound of their language quite well.

As far as Americans and Israelis having a poor stereotype, that might be true but people on an individual basis are best to practice common sense. Announcing to that crowd of drunken Iranians about my identity and politics, that would have been STUPID. Taking a risk for NOTHING.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

If asked, my answer will always be...American.

If the questioner doesn't like it, tough shit.

[Jingthing]

If asked, my answer will always be...American.

If the questioner doesn't like it, tough shit.

Macho man! You can't imagine a scenario where doing so would be foolhardy?