wordchild Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 co op could be an interesting situation following this, but its very high risk and not really a bond play (there may not be any coupons!) We wont really have any clear idea what the capital structure is going to be like till they publish more details in October. After that it could become more investable.There will be a fair bit of back and forth negotiation and also pr manipulation between now and then. Having said all that, like Fletch, I have dipped a toe in (at what I hope will prove to be distressed prices) to join in the fun. A braver man than me especially after having skimmed all the posts on TMF - did you go for CPBC or another? some of that + some prefs. looking a tad early at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eesat Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 most info is available based on ISINs but not all websites quote minimum trading batches. OGX............................USD 200,000 CEll C..........................€UR 50,000 Russian Standard........USD 200,000 Gazprom......................RUB 5 million RSHB..........................RUB 3 million Bumi............................USD 100,000 Talanx..........................€UR 100,000 Electricidad Caracas...USD 100,000 These are minimum investments?USD $100,000 in Venezuela shortly after the death of Hugo Chavez? I'm surprised they'll even let Electricidad Caracas be traded in USD they hate America so much! Think I'd rather head for the casino and stick it all on "Red" instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eesat Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Has anyone used deVere as their advisors? I hear they are good. Any experience? Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app No personal experience but if you go to The Motley Fool web site and go to Boards, Investors round table, International Expat Investing there are a number of posts about them - one of which was about them recently losing their Belgian licence. My feeling, with no substantiation, is caveat emptor. De Vere's are just offshore pension brokers and the largest in the world,of course they will have bad publicity but their pension products are through multinational corporations like Hansa,Friends Providenst and Aviva so you won't have any problems there. It's the same with the big investment banks,I used to send people to the website www.donttrustmerrilllynch.com when working for the competition,I think it's been taken down now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletchsmile Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 co op could be an interesting situation following this, but its very high risk and not really a bond play (there may not be any coupons!) We wont really have any clear idea what the capital structure is going to be like till they publish more details in October. After that it could become more investable.There will be a fair bit of back and forth negotiation and also pr manipulation between now and then. Having said all that, like Fletch, I have dipped a toe in (at what I hope will prove to be distressed prices) to join in the fun. Still speculative, and as you say we won't know how things are until October when we get the details. I'm still comfortable with the risk/ rewards. One of the things I was looking for is for the government not to intervene and for Co-op mutual Group to sort it out, as they have the resources, as even though a mutual they've something like 80bio in assets. Also I would have thought their ethical stance would have led to a more palatable solution, particularly for retail investors. Another thing I was expecting was, it to follow usual stakeholder rights/ hiearchy. One thing that somewhat disgusts me in the way the government and PRA (new FSA) have handled this, is the way they have just by-passed the normal loss hierarchy to suit themselves. It's only a small incident but it sets a very dangerous precedent. If the company was forced to liquidate assets first to lose out and absorb losses would be shareholders, then bondholders. That's the whole point of bonds compared to shares - greater rights in distress. This bypasses the normal priority rights over assets. The bank is a limited company with one main shareholder - the Co-op. The bank itself is not a mutual. The Co-op Group is, and it owns the shares. Hence in my view it as shareholder should bear all loss before bond holders. Again I also can't see how the Co-op Group could call this an ethical solution - shirking their own responsibilities and manipulating rules to suit themselves. In the last few months we've seen some very dangerous precedents globally: in Cyprus depositors taking hits, now in the UK bondholders losing out while shareholders retain control. The days of depositor having first rights and most protection are gone, bondholders no longer ranking above shareholders.... These are the much bigger issues here. The bottom line is if you have any involvement with a bank whether as a depositor, debt holder, shareholder or any other stakeholder it seems the governments can change all the rules to suit themselves. Small fry on this occasion... but some big repercussions for the future... Cheers Fletch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 co op could be an interesting situation following this, but its very high risk and not really a bond play (there may not be any coupons!) We wont really have any clear idea what the capital structure is going to be like till they publish more details in October. After that it could become more investable.There will be a fair bit of back and forth negotiation and also pr manipulation between now and then. Having said all that, like Fletch, I have dipped a toe in (at what I hope will prove to be distressed prices) to join in the fun. Still speculative, and as you say we won't know how things are until October when we get the details. I'm still comfortable with the risk/ rewards. One of the things I was looking for is for the government not to intervene and for Co-op mutual Group to sort it out, as they have the resources, as even though a mutual they've something like 80bio in assets. Also I would have thought their ethical stance would have led to a more palatable solution, particularly for retail investors. Another thing I was expecting was, it to follow usual stakeholder rights/ hiearchy. One thing that somewhat disgusts me in the way the government and PRA (new FSA) have handled this, is the way they have just by-passed the normal loss hierarchy to suit themselves. It's only a small incident but it sets a very dangerous precedent. If the company was forced to liquidate assets first to lose out and absorb losses would be shareholders, then bondholders. That's the whole point of bonds compared to shares - greater rights in distress. This bypasses the normal priority rights over assets. The bank is a limited company with one main shareholder - the Co-op. The bank itself is not a mutual. The Co-op Group is, and it owns the shares. Hence in my view it as shareholder should bear all loss before bond holders. Again I also can't see how the Co-op Group could call this an ethical solution - shirking their own responsibilities and manipulating rules to suit themselves. In the last few months we've seen some very dangerous precedents globally: in Cyprus depositors taking hits, now in the UK bondholders losing out while shareholders retain control. The days of depositor having first rights and most protection are gone, bondholders no longer ranking above shareholders.... These are the much bigger issues here. The bottom line is if you have any involvement with a bank whether as a depositor, debt holder, shareholder or any other stakeholder it seems the governments can change all the rules to suit themselves. Small fry on this occasion... but some big repercussions for the future... Cheers Fletch Individual Co-Op shareholder liability in the Co-Op is the grand total of One pound sterling which entitles each member to one vote. I am a Co-Op member. So sue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordchild Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 co op could be an interesting situation following this, but its very high risk and not really a bond play (there may not be any coupons!) We wont really have any clear idea what the capital structure is going to be like till they publish more details in October. After that it could become more investable.There will be a fair bit of back and forth negotiation and also pr manipulation between now and then. Having said all that, like Fletch, I have dipped a toe in (at what I hope will prove to be distressed prices) to join in the fun. Still speculative, and as you say we won't know how things are until October when we get the details. I'm still comfortable with the risk/ rewards. One of the things I was looking for is for the government not to intervene and for Co-op mutual Group to sort it out, as they have the resources, as even though a mutual they've something like 80bio in assets. Also I would have thought their ethical stance would have led to a more palatable solution, particularly for retail investors. Another thing I was expecting was, it to follow usual stakeholder rights/ hiearchy. One thing that somewhat disgusts me in the way the government and PRA (new FSA) have handled this, is the way they have just by-passed the normal loss hierarchy to suit themselves. It's only a small incident but it sets a very dangerous precedent. If the company was forced to liquidate assets first to lose out and absorb losses would be shareholders, then bondholders. That's the whole point of bonds compared to shares - greater rights in distress. This bypasses the normal priority rights over assets. The bank is a limited company with one main shareholder - the Co-op. The bank itself is not a mutual. The Co-op Group is, and it owns the shares. Hence in my view it as shareholder should bear all loss before bond holders. Again I also can't see how the Co-op Group could call this an ethical solution - shirking their own responsibilities and manipulating rules to suit themselves. In the last few months we've seen some very dangerous precedents globally: in Cyprus depositors taking hits, now in the UK bondholders losing out while shareholders retain control. The days of depositor having first rights and most protection are gone, bondholders no longer ranking above shareholders.... These are the much bigger issues here. The bottom line is if you have any involvement with a bank whether as a depositor, debt holder, shareholder or any other stakeholder it seems the governments can change all the rules to suit themselves. Small fry on this occasion... but some big repercussions for the future... Cheers Fletch I agree the value of the shareholding needs to be wiped out, but , to be fair, we don't know yet that is hasn't been. All they have mentioned so far is the new money that the group will be putting in and the contribution they are asking/expecting from bond holders. I would be very surprised, when we see the details, if there is any value attributed to the co ops original shareholding in the bank. as long as that is the case they can argue the hierarchy was adhered too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topt Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Has anyone used deVere as their advisors? I hear they are good. Any experience? Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app No personal experience but if you go to The Motley Fool web site and go to Boards, Investors round table, International Expat Investing there are a number of posts about them - one of which was about them recently losing their Belgian licence. My feeling, with no substantiation, is caveat emptor. De Vere's are just offshore pension brokers and the largest in the world,of course they will have bad publicity but their pension products are through multinational corporations like Hansa,Friends Providenst and Aviva so you won't have any problems there. It's the same with the big investment banks,I used to send people to the website www.donttrustmerrilllynch.com when working for the competition,I think it's been taken down now? Did you read Fletch Smile's post - no. 66? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I have never attempted this style of investment before, but I am interested to try with a small surplus I have these days. What's the recommended online method by smartphone? I see RBoS have some facilities for people to create investment accounts of various kinds. Are they any good? http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/investments/g2/self-select.ashx Where would I track the value of the investment - preferably by graph ? All information gratefully acknowledged by an investment virgin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) sorry - double post -- again Edited July 17, 2013 by jpinx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 I have never attempted this style of investment before, but I am interested to try with a small surplus I have these days. What's the recommended online method by smartphone? I see RBoS have some facilities for people to create investment accounts of various kinds. Are they any good? http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/investments/g2/self-select.ashx Where would I track the value of the investment - preferably by graph ? All information gratefully acknowledged by an investment virgin the questions you ask mandate only one answer and that is "don't even think about it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 most info is available based on ISINs but not all websites quote minimum trading batches. OGX............................USD 200,000 CEll C..........................€UR 50,000 Russian Standard........USD 200,000 Gazprom......................RUB 5 million RSHB..........................RUB 3 million Bumi............................USD 100,000 Talanx..........................€UR 100,000 Electricidad Caracas...USD 100,000 These are minimum investments?USD $100,000 in Venezuela shortly after the death of Hugo Chavez? I'm surprised they'll even let Electricidad Caracas be traded in USD they hate America so much! Think I'd rather head for the casino and stick it all on "Red" instead! nearly all Venezuela bonds (~two dozen) are denominated in USD and traded in New York with daily very high volumes. by the way, as far as hate is concerned..., it's the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penefattore Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 keep them coming Axtel ISIN USP06064AB83 - USD CY 10.88% / YTM 13.96% Argentina ISIN XS0501195480 - USD CY 11.10% / YTM 17.60% OGX ISIN USP7356YAA12 - USD CY 14.78% / YTM 24.53% PdVSA Cusip USP7807HAQ85 - USD CY 10.83% / YTM 11.33% Cell C ISIN XS0224153360 - €UR CY 10.80% / YTM 10.00% Venezuela ISIN US922646AS37 - USD CY 9.97% / YTM 10.45% Naam, you forgot the mexican builders http://www.finanzen.net/anleihen/A1G0L6-Desarrolladora-Homex-de-CV-Anleihe http://www.finanzen.net/anleihen/A1GZ58-Urbi-Desarrollos-UrbanosB-de-CV-Anleihe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penefattore Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 have you ever considered high dividend yield stocks , like for example http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/550:HK http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-3034.html http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/602:HK http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-3370.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 keep them coming Axtel ISIN USP06064AB83 - USD CY 10.88% / YTM 13.96% Argentina ISIN XS0501195480 - USD CY 11.10% / YTM 17.60% OGX ISIN USP7356YAA12 - USD CY 14.78% / YTM 24.53% PdVSA Cusip USP7807HAQ85 - USD CY 10.83% / YTM 11.33% Cell C ISIN XS0224153360 - €UR CY 10.80% / YTM 10.00% Venezuela ISIN US922646AS37 - USD CY 9.97% / YTM 10.45% Naam, you forgot the mexican builders http://www.finanzen.net/anleihen/A1G0L6-Desarrolladora-Homex-de-CV-Anleihe http://www.finanzen.net/anleihen/A1GZ58-Urbi-Desarrollos-UrbanosB-de-CV-Anleihe i am well aware of the mexican builders but i think they are toast. never bought an asset based on expected recovery value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 have you ever considered high dividend yield stocks , like for example http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/550:HK http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-3034.html http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/602:HK http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-3370.html i have not because traditionally high dividend yields don't last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPH Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 most info is available based on ISINs but not all websites quote minimum trading batches. OGX............................USD 200,000 CEll C..........................€UR 50,000 Russian Standard........USD 200,000 Gazprom......................RUB 5 million RSHB..........................RUB 3 million Bumi............................USD 100,000 Talanx..........................€UR 100,000 Electricidad Caracas...USD 100,000 These are minimum investments?USD $100,000 in Venezuela shortly after the death of Hugo Chavez? I'm surprised they'll even let Electricidad Caracas be traded in USD they hate America so much! Think I'd rather head for the casino and stick it all on "Red" instead! nearly all Venezuela bonds (~two dozen) are denominated in USD and traded in New York with daily very high volumes. by the way, as far as hate is concerned..., it's the other way round. If the Venezuelan currency falls the value of the bon falls, even though it is denominated in USD. Correct ? How is the Venezuelan economy. Not like Greece i hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPH Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 most info is available based on ISINs but not all websites quote minimum trading batches. OGX............................USD 200,000 CEll C..........................€UR 50,000 Russian Standard........USD 200,000 Gazprom......................RUB 5 million RSHB..........................RUB 3 million Bumi............................USD 100,000 Talanx..........................€UR 100,000 Electricidad Caracas...USD 100,000 These are minimum investments?USD $100,000 in Venezuela shortly after the death of Hugo Chavez? I'm surprised they'll even let Electricidad Caracas be traded in USD they hate America so much! Think I'd rather head for the casino and stick it all on "Red" instead! nearly all Venezuela bonds (~two dozen) are denominated in USD and traded in New York with daily very high volumes. by the way, as far as hate is concerned..., it's the other way round. If the Venezuelan currency falls the value of the bond falls, even though it is denominated in USD. Correct ? How is the Venezuelan economy. Not like Greece i hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPH Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 most info is available based on ISINs but not all websites quote minimum trading batches. OGX............................USD 200,000 CEll C..........................€UR 50,000 Russian Standard........USD 200,000 Gazprom......................RUB 5 million RSHB..........................RUB 3 million Bumi............................USD 100,000 Talanx..........................€UR 100,000 Electricidad Caracas...USD 100,000 These are minimum investments?USD $100,000 in Venezuela shortly after the death of Hugo Chavez? I'm surprised they'll even let Electricidad Caracas be traded in USD they hate America so much! Think I'd rather head for the casino and stick it all on "Red" instead! nearly all Venezuela bonds (~two dozen) are denominated in USD and traded in New York with daily very high volumes. by the way, as far as hate is concerned..., it's the other way round. If the Venezuelan currency falls the value of the bond falls, even though it is denominated in USD. Correct ? How is the Venezuelan economy. Not like Greece i hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 nearly all Venezuela bonds (~two dozen) are denominated in USD and traded in New York with daily very high volumes. by the way, as far as hate is concerned..., it's the other way round.If the Venezuelan currency falls the value of the bond falls, even though it is denominated in USD. Correct ? How is the Venezuelan economy. Not like Greece i hope. the domestic economic situation of Venezuela is extremely bad. without its crude oil the country would be in a worse shape than Greece. the domestic currency is since years on a steep slide down. but crude is paid for in dollars, that's why the domestic currency does not influence any bond values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 nearly all Venezuela bonds (~two dozen) are denominated in USD and traded in New York with daily very high volumes. by the way, as far as hate is concerned..., it's the other way round.If the Venezuelan currency falls the value of the bond falls, even though it is denominated in USD. Correct ? How is the Venezuelan economy. Not like Greece i hope. the domestic economic situation of Venezuela is extremely bad. without its crude oil the country would be in a worse shape than Greece. the domestic currency is since years on a steep slide down. but crude is paid for in dollars, that's why the domestic currency does not influence any bond values. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPH Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 nearly all Venezuela bonds (~two dozen) are denominated in USD and traded in New York with daily very high volumes. by the way, as far as hate is concerned..., it's the other way round.If the Venezuelan currency falls the value of the bond falls, even though it is denominated in USD. Correct ?How is the Venezuelan economy. Not like Greece i hope. the domestic economic situation of Venezuela is extremely bad. without its crude oil the country would be in a worse shape than Greece.the domestic currency is since years on a steep slide down. but crude is paid for in dollars, that's why the domestic currency does not influence any bond values. I found below text regarding Venezuelan bonds. Maybe thats what you mean with the oil dollars. country Venezuela government institutions Ministerio de Planificacion y FinanzasCentral Bank of Venezuela Profile Issuance of Venezuelan global bonds reached USD 7.4bn in 2010. The government of Venezuela sold USD3.0bn worth of global bonds in international debt capital markets in 2010. PDVSA raised USD4.1bn in global bonds. During the first three quarters of 2011 flow of global bonds from Venezuela totaled USD10.35bn, including 4.2bn of Venezuelan sovereign bonds and USD6.15bn of Bonos PDVSA. Venezuelan bond market is state-run. State companies, joint ventures, community councils and private companies must be authorized to sell debt. The public bond transaction system called SITME is used instead of Forex market. “The bulk of the securities currently exchanged through the SITME system are dollar denominated bonds issued by Venezuela's oil company and the government. The Central Bank holds the securities and sells them to Authorized Financial Institutions at a price that reflects the SITME exchange rate of 5.3 VEF/US$. Individuals and companies that wish to access dollars need to place specific orders with their banks. Then the banks, on behalf of their clients, buy the dollar denominated bonds from the Central Bank with Venezuelan Bolivares. When US dollars are required, the client instructs their bank to sell these bonds out in the international market, thus generating the US dollars that the client needs. The dollars are then transferred to the client's bank account for a commission.”- EDC Economics reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 I found below text regarding Venezuelan bonds. Maybe thats what you mean with the oil dollars. this article is focussing on the domestic bond market and is therefore not relevant to whatever i posted. "global" (internationally traded) bonds were mentioned but the journalist mixed up domestic and global with the nonsensical remark "Venezuelan bond market is state-run". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletchsmile Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) I found below text regarding Venezuelan bonds. Maybe thats what you mean with the oil dollars. this article is focussing on the domestic bond market and is therefore not relevant to whatever i posted. "global" (internationally traded) bonds were mentioned but the journalist mixed up domestic and global with the nonsensical remark "Venezuelan bond market is state-run". Not knowing much about the Venezuelan bond market this is the type of media that does damage and puts people off. I find this sort of thing more and more these days. When you know a subject well you find journalists often get things mixed up - probably a combination of ignorance and making the story fit what they want to say and think sells. Not just journalists and bloggers, but the "experts" on CNBC, Bloomberg etc. It makes you wonder though: 1) what the impact of the media is, and how much damage they do with their misinformation in real dollars 2) if it happens on subjects you know well, then it probably happens on a very wide range of other subjects. I still wonder with the financial crisis what the financial impact of the media was if quantified in dollars, reduction in confidence etc. The politicians and bankers obviously played their part. The media in my view made things much worse than they needed to be as well - bad news sells so focus on that and ignore the good news, mix things up etc.. Cheers Fletch Edited July 20, 2013 by fletchsmile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 I found below text regarding Venezuelan bonds. Maybe thats what you mean with the oil dollars. this article is focussing on the domestic bond market and is therefore not relevant to whatever i posted. "global" (internationally traded) bonds were mentioned but the journalist mixed up domestic and global with the nonsensical remark "Venezuelan bond market is state-run". Not knowing much about the Venezuelan bond market this is the type of media that does damage and puts people off. I find this sort of thing more and more these days. When you know a subject well you find journalists often get things mixed up - probably a combination of ignorance and making the story fit what they want to say and think sells. Not just journalists and bloggers, but the "experts" on CNBC, Bloomberg etc. It makes you wonder though: 1) what the impact of the media is, and how much damage they do with their misinformation in real dollars 2) if it happens on subjects you know well, then it probably happens on a very wide range of other subjects. I still wonder with the financial crisis what the financial impact of the media was if quantified in dollars, reduction in confidence etc. The politicians and bankers obviously played their part. The media in my view made things much worse than they needed to be as well - bad news sells so focus on that and ignore the good news, mix things up etc.. Cheers Fletch your description fits Fletch but your diction is very "diplomatique". i usually use one word (exceptions prove the rule) and that is journàsslist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPH Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I found below text regarding Venezuelan bonds. Maybe thats what you mean with the oil dollars. this article is focussing on the domestic bond market and is therefore not relevant to whatever i posted. "global" (internationally traded) bonds were mentioned but the journalist mixed up domestic and global with the nonsensical remark "Venezuelan bond market is state-run". Not knowing much about the Venezuelan bond market this is the type of media that does damage and puts people off. I find this sort of thing more and more these days. When you know a subject well you find journalists often get things mixed up - probably a combination of ignorance and making the story fit what they want to say and think sells. Not just journalists and bloggers, but the "experts" on CNBC, Bloomberg etc. It makes you wonder though: 1) what the impact of the media is, and how much damage they do with their misinformation in real dollars 2) if it happens on subjects you know well, then it probably happens on a very wide range of other subjects. I still wonder with the financial crisis what the financial impact of the media was if quantified in dollars, reduction in confidence etc. The politicians and bankers obviously played their part. The media in my view made things much worse than they needed to be as well - bad news sells so focus on that and ignore the good news, mix things up etc.. Cheers Fletch your description fits Fletch but your diction is very "diplomatique". i usually use one word (exceptions prove the rule) and that is journàsslist Much of the financial media cannot be trusted. Most people on CNBC, Bloomberg etc are there to sell their own products or they have shorts in the market and tries to manipulate the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 nearly all Venezuela bonds (~two dozen) are denominated in USD and traded in New York with daily very high volumes. by the way, as far as hate is concerned..., it's the other way round.If the Venezuelan currency falls the value of the bond falls, even though it is denominated in USD. Correct ?How is the Venezuelan economy. Not like Greece i hope. the domestic economic situation of Venezuela is extremely bad. without its crude oil the country would be in a worse shape than Greece.the domestic currency is since years on a steep slide down. but crude is paid for in dollars, that's why the domestic currency does not influence any bond values. Naam, I'm proud of you. I've been waiting for you to do some real teaching on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 "teachings" concerning investment in Venezuela bonds are worthless for the average U.S. citizen or U.S. person unless he/she is a "qualified or accredited investor". Accredited investor is a term defined by various countries' securities laws that delineates investors permitted to invest in certain types of higher risk investments... In the United States, for an individual to be considered an accredited investor, he or she must have a net worth of at least one million US dollars, not including the value of one's primary residence or have income at least $200,000 each year for the last two years (or $300,000 together with his or her spouse if married) and have the expectation to make the same amount this year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandInvestmentGuide Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) <snip>I find this sort of thing more and more these days. When you know a subject well you find journalists often get things mixed up - probably a combination of ignorance and making the story fit what they want to say and think sells. Not just journalists and bloggers, but the "experts" on CNBC, Bloomberg etc. It makes you wonder though: 1) what the impact of the media is, and how much damage they do with their misinformation in real dollars 2) if it happens on subjects you know well, then it probably happens on a very wide range of other subjects.<snip> Absolutely. In my experience most journalists are capable of little more than re-wording/shortening a media release that has been handed to them. If they don't have reasonably good familiarity with the subject matter (and the time to actually think through what it is they are 'writing'), then it is so very easy to turn information into mis-information. The exceptions being a handful of real investigative journalists or (in the context of this thread) some competent veterans in the sphere of financial media. Edited July 22, 2013 by ThailandInvestmentGuide 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPH Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 "teachings" concerning investment in Venezuela bonds are worthless for the average U.S. citizen or U.S. person unless he/she is a "qualified or accredited investor". Accredited investor is a term defined by various countries' securities laws that delineates investors permitted to invest in certain types of higher risk investments... In the United States, for an individual to be considered an accredited investor, he or she must have a net worth of at least one million US dollars, not including the value of one's primary residence or have income at least $200,000 each year for the last two years (or $300,000 together with his or her spouse if married) and have the expectation to make the same amount this year." Naam, you seem very knowledgeable in bonds. Do you have a list of bonds in the 7-8 percent yield area you would like to share with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Naam, you seem very knowledgeable in bonds. Do you have a list of bonds in the 7-8 percent yield area you would like to share with us.what currency? what maturity? what credit rating? my questions are rhetorical, i don't expect an answer. but here's some short information: -the dominant currency in bonds was and is the US-Dollar, -the dominant currency in bonds for years to come will be the US-Dollar, -the widest selection in maturities, ratings, yields and whatever matters one finds in bonds denominated in US-Dollars. are you still interested inspite of a zillion clowns parrotting "the US-Dollar is doomed"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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