Tuning Your Own Ecu

[RubberSideDown]

ECU flashing for the 14R is huge in the US- it's about as common as an aftermarket pipe- it allows changes in fueling like a Power Commander or similar device, but it also allows access to other features like derestricting the speed limiter, eliminating a 'safety mode' in the lower gears that can restrict timing if the throttle is whacked open, extending redline, and (of most interest to me) the revs at which the secondary throttle flies open can be changed from 5500rpm to 3200rpm, opening up as much a 20hp in the midrange.

Right now it costs ~$350, but it necessitates removing your ECU and shipping it to the technician (which I'm not comfortable doing- if it gets lost I'm screwed)- an Australian company, Woolich Racing (http://www.woolichracing.com/Default.aspx) sells the USB interface (made by Misubishi), the Kawasaki bench harness, and 14R Bin File Definitions for $450 (which, if RT shipping of my ECU to the States is factored in, is probably cheaper than having it done), which will allow me to flash it myself.

The 14R has a low-power mode (via a separate ECU map) that I'm never gonna use, so I'm going to set it up as my new map so I can switch back to stock if I need to get it serviced.

They make set-ups for most bikes- it's worth checking out if you like to fool around with your tuning.

[yankee99]

I enjoy modding and speed as much as anyone. If it were me i would make that one of my last mods. I would get to know the bike in and out. This way your ecu will be custom tuned for where you think the bike is lacking not what someone else thinks. A gain in the lower may make the upper end suffer and vice versa. Also without a dyno properly tuning yourself would be like peeing in the wind. The nice thing about a pcv is the autotune and i think bazaaz has some type of autotune. Of course those may not give you the advantages of a ecu flash.

btw have you picked the bike up?

[RubberSideDown]

I'm not going to be doing much in the way of actual tuning, especially since I already have a PC installed- the mods I'll make are pretty much simple (derestricting limiters, resetting modes, setting the TC so it can be changed on the fly, changing the seondary throttle body opening RPM, etc)- I will be breaking in the bike and getting to know it first, and I'll be doing that with the stock map (though I'll have the new map in place). Opening up the flies earlier is what makes it all worth it (which can only be done with a reflash)- peak power is unaffected.

As quick as it is, Kawasaki still neutered it a bit in the first three gears, and I'd like to correct that.

I get the bike on Thursday or Friday.

Edited June 4, 2013 by RubberSideDown

[BlackArtemis]

If it's a commonly tuned vehicle, using a canned tune is fine.

I got a handheld for my mustang in the states, listed my mods. They gave me an email with the file, I connected it via USB, uploaded the tunes and then transferred them to my mustang. 30mins and I had gained quite a few extra ponies (had headers back and a bump to 89octane) and a higher redline. One of the best mods ever, and any future mods I would email them and they would send me a new tune.

[RubberSideDown]

If it's a commonly tuned vehicle, using a canned tune is fine.

That's my take on it- there are hundreds of second-gen 14Rs that have been piped and flashed, and dozens of dyno charts and user reviews showing the results- they are all very consistent with each other. I wouldn't take a chance with the bike, but I do believe in the tried-and-tested results I've seen so far.

In any case, I won't be messing with fueling or timing for a while, but I'd like to dump factory-imposed restrictions at my option.

[RubberSideDown]

This is a demo of the tuning system:

[Bung]

I did it to my Keihin System on my Triumph. Got free software called Tune ECU on my notebook. I bought a map from a guy in the UK who had dyno'd a bike with my mods. Just saved the original map and uploaded the new one. Works on KTM as well

[RubberSideDown]

Yeah, there are people sharing maps as well, and Woolich keeps updating their bin file as they discover more settings in the ECU.

Other programmers have also been 'locking' the ECU before sending it back to their customers so the company is the only one that can make future changes- that's BS and another reason I'd rather do it myself.

[loserlazer]

i tried to play with the aftermarket ecu on my cbr250 before as API Tech - Thai brand - included a software and various map to the package.

But could not reach somewhere:)

so, this is an interesting topic for me.

[KRS1]

I read that rev limiters sometimes use some sort of oscillating crystal, id like to find this crystal and destroy it.

[loserlazer]

just be constructive krs1, not destructive:)

[mania]

This is a demo of the tuning system:

You know that does not look unlike Bazzaz Z-FI Mapper software which you can download for free.

Load a map & play with it all offline to see how it works.

It will try to communicate initially with device.

Just wait then work offline

I did & downloaded the maps for 250 & 300 just to look & play with it.

Go download it & play a bit

http://www.bazzaz.net/index.php/software-overview

Edit: oops sorry I see they have no ZX14R maps yet in their data base

Although you could try it anyway with other maps just to see how the interface works etc.

Edited June 5, 2013 by mania

[RubberSideDown]

Actually the Bazzaz system can work with the 14R- it's been around for years.

The Bazazz interface is different- it's basically the same as a Power Commander (which I already have as that's what Brock's Performance makes maps for, and Brock made my pipe), and is mostly for fueling changes- the Wollich kit gives me direct access to the ECU, and it allows for changes that no other system can currenly offer- neither the Bazzaz or PC offer direct ECU access, but rather piggyback it and sit between the ECU and fuel system, so they can't make rev limit changes, set throttle body openings, derestrict speed limiters and safety modes, etc.

If I can figure out the correct tune, I can probably dump the Power Commander entirely, and still have access to so many other features- there's really no comparison.

I've been playing around with the Wollich software (my kit just shipped today so I won't have it for a week or so, but I already have the 14R maps)- it's pretty amazing what it can do.

[RubberSideDown]

Really, the tuning part is not my primary interest as I already have the PC in place, but I've read so many comments re: opening the secondaries earlier- it's supposed to transform the bike- at 7750rpm, it makes ~25hp and 35lb/ft over the stock settings (though peak power is about the same), and several of the other features will come in handy as well, though they don't really affect performance.

[mania]

Really, the tuning part is not my primary interest as I already have the PC in place, but I've read so many comments re: opening the secondaries earlier- it's supposed to transform the bike- at 7750rpm, it makes ~25hp and 35lb/ft over the stock settings (though peak power is about the same), and several of the other features will come in handy as well, though they don't really affect performance.

That is so funny to read.

It is all relative I guess.

But that bump is adding almost my total 250 HP heheheh

[RubberSideDown]

They just bumped my Friday bike delivery to Monday- the wait continues...

[RubberSideDown]

Finally got my map sorted.

I worked on it for a while and got what would be a decent STP opening sequence, but I wanted to change the ignition map as well (which was a bit beyond my knowledge), and I really didn't want to have anybody local work on it as I wanted someone familiar with my bike model- I found a tuner in Canada who primarily works on ZX-14Rs, and I had him build me a map that takes my mods and environment (i.e. elevation) into account (he also offers lifetime support if I need to change anything later)- his STP opening sequence is also way more aggressive than mine- I have a PC-V so no changes were made to fueling.

I've read several extremely positive reviews for his ECU flashes, and as he's worked on bikes with a similar (in some cases exactly the same) pipe and PC-V map, I wasn't too worried about not having it tuned on a dyno (in fact, there are at least three other tuners flashing 14R ECUs in various states of performance, but none of them give the user the actual map and they lock the ECU so no one else can make changes- I have full access to everything, though I agreed not to share the numbers).

I had him leave the stock full-power setting untouched, and flash my low-power setting, so I can switch back-and-forth (and I could have it set to add as much power as possible without regard to mileage as I won't be using it all the time)- the top-speed limiter is now removed, and little things (like remembering the last traction control setting instead of switching to the default every time the engine is shut down) have been added- I also had the rev limiter bumped 500rpm to 11,500rpm, and the Kawasaki safety mode (which pulls timing if the throttle is whacked open in the first three gears) has been eliminated.

I'll load it into my ECU in a couple of days when I have time to fool around with it.

Getting stuff like this done in LOS can be a real hassle, but at least it's doable.

Edited August 16, 2013 by RubberSideDown

[bigdod]

hmmm....interesting stuff indeed...

[RubberSideDown]

I loaded the map this morning and took a quick run to make sure it would work on 95 gasohol (no problems)- I'm still breaking the bike in so I couldn't really beat the crap out of it, but the difference in mid-range power and response was immediately apparent- I only went to about 3/4 throttle up to 7500rpm through 4th, but it revved quicker and accelerated harder than the stock full-power map by a very noticeable margin.

I'm going to ride on the stock map until I get to 1000km, and then I'll see what it can really do- I have to say that I'm very happy with how easy this was to set up- Woolich also makes ECU tuning kits for the Kawi 10R and 6R, the Busa and Gixxer 600, 750, and 1000 (and a few other Suzooks) and they're developing kits for the R1 and R6- they don't offer actual tuning and only provide the method to do it, but coming up with a map is certainly doable.

[Bingo66]

Tuning is a great idea, but I'd still want to use a dyno, how much is it for a dyno tune here? imagine when E85 becomes mainstream and you can map a bike for 99 octane only.

Oh the dreams.

[RubberSideDown]

There's already a map for E85 for the 14R- it's supposed to make excellent power, but mileage drops something like 30% due to the different burning characteristics of the ethanol content.

I'll dyno the bike someday, but I'm not letting anyone dyno-tune it- I have little faith in the tuners here when it comes to my bike. 14Rs with similar mods and tunes are making 200-205rwhp.

Edited August 17, 2013 by RubberSideDown

[thaicbr]

dirtbike in bangkok have a dynotune dyno

[yankee99]

dirtbike in bangkok have a dynotune dyno

Its actually dirt shop

http://www.dirtshopthailand.com/

If i remember it was 600baht

[Bingo66]

There's already a map for E85 for the 14R- it's supposed to make excellent power, but mileage drops something like 30% due to the different burning characteristics of the ethanol content.

I'll dyno the bike someday, but I'm not letting anyone dyno-tune it- I have little faith in the tuners here when it comes to my bike. 14Rs with similar mods and tunes are making 200-205rwhp.

Who cares about the milage? E85 is how much? It's gotta be 50% cheaper than E20?

Which year 14R'S support E85? I haven't seen any recent honda's that support E85 in the manual and I wouldn't even try it with an imported or older bike.

[RubberSideDown]

There's already a map for E85 for the 14R- it's supposed to make excellent power, but mileage drops something like 30% due to the different burning characteristics of the ethanol content.

I'll dyno the bike someday, but I'm not letting anyone dyno-tune it- I have little faith in the tuners here when it comes to my bike. 14Rs with similar mods and tunes are making 200-205rwhp.

Who cares about the milage? E85 is how much? It's gotta be 50% cheaper than E20?

Which year 14R'S support E85? I haven't seen any recent honda's that support E85 in the manual and I wouldn't even try it with an imported or older bike.

None of them support E85 from the factory- I'm referring to an ECU tune for the bike developed by Don Guhl, who has been working on the 14R for years.

Here's a video from May- he's probably improved the tune since then:

[bigdod]

Yeh mate....all good stuff. Definitely worth looking into. I take it E85 is fairly easy to get here then..?

[RubberSideDown]

Yeh mate....all good stuff. Definitely worth looking into. I take it E85 is fairly easy to get here then..?

No, it's not common depending on where you live (though E20 is easy to find). There's a tuning thread going on a 14R board where guys running the E85 tune have found ~5hp across the rev range- while it's not a huge gain, it's pretty interesting to see their results in the infancy of using E85 for performance reasons on street bikes. That wouldn't be enough to get me to switch over, though- the drop in mpg (on what is already a thirsty bike) would mean seeking out fuel too often in places it might be difficult to find- it's no fun watching bars disappear from the gas gauge at a rapid rate when you're in the middle-of-nowhere.

[bigdod]

Yeh mate....all good stuff. Definitely worth looking into. I take it E85 is fairly easy to get here then..?

No, it's not common depending on where you live (though E20 is easy to find). There's a tuning thread going on a 14R board where guys running the E85 tune have found ~5hp across the rev range- while it's not a huge gain, it's pretty interesting to see their results in the infancy of using E85 for performance reasons on street bikes. That wouldn't be enough to get me to switch over, though- the drop in mpg (on what is already a thirsty bike) would mean seeking out fuel too often in places it might be difficult to find- it's no fun watching bars disappear from the gas gauge at a rapid rate when you're in the middle-of-nowhere.

Yep, I hear you... my old Gixer 11 fairly gulps the juice down too, but I guess thats as much my fault as the bike's...!! Also, due to the age etc of my bike, I dont think E85's the way ahead for me, but it's certainly interesting reading. I had a look at the video from Guhl and its again pretty interesting, I reckon this and flashing the ECU could make a fair difference across the board. I have been thinking about getting myself a newer bike to play on, but for the moment cant justify the bonkers prices they're asking here, but I am getting fed up with all of the carb problems due to the fuel here, so fuel injection would definitely be a refreshing change...

[RubberSideDown]

I had a couple of GSXR-1100Rs in Japan- a '90 and '94- big monsters, but great bikes.

Before this bike, the only experience I had was adjusting fueling with a Power Commander (on my '00 Busa, which I had dyno-tuned in the States- the tuner found a bump of ~13hp peak, and ~15hp in the midrange).

The tune I just flashed into the ECU was mainly to open the secondary throttle plates earlier in the rev range and at less throttle- I didn't want to remove the plates entirely (as many have done, especially on first-gen models) as it screws up low-end throttle response pretty badly, though it gives a good midrange/top-end hit- I also had some ignition timing added- Kawi really neutered it a bit- it's possible they're holding something back so they can offer a new model next year with more power, and all they'll have to do is reflash it- who knows? I definitely felt an immediate difference- guys are reporting 20-25hp increases in the midrange, and the flash involves removing the seat, removing four bolts to move the toolbox to expose the ECU, and inserting a plug- including the upload, it's a 10-minute job- pretty incredible gains considering how easy it is to do.

[bigdod]

I've still got a 93 GSXR, and '03 Busa and a TL1000S lying covered up in a shed back in the UK and I love them all.... great bikes. I'd like to get them (or at least the Busa) over here as its a waste them lying there covered up for the past five years or so...!! I did go the powercommander 3 route with the Busa and it completely transformed the mid range of the bike, as well as opening up the restricted top end. A most impressive bike. The gixer 11 had a whole bunch of engine mods and was a bit of a monster...but as you say, it was a great bike and I loved it. The TL, strangely enough was pretty much standard except for renthal bar conversion and a pair of exceeding loud cans & KN filter, but a friend of mine who worked for Suzuki had some black magic box which he plugged into the ECU and made a few little changes in there, and it again transformed the bike....it was a great fun bike out on the little twisty Scottish backroads....would be a good bike over here...