Obama To Press Chinas Xi To Act Against Cyber Spying

[FDog]

Yeah, there's no question Snowden's only just begun. Snowden is harming the United States domestically and abroad, and is harming US allies throughout the world. Beijing and Moscow love this, as does Tehran and Caracas et al.

Snowden is an irresponsible flake, a babe in the woods. Either that or Snowden is just flat out an enemy of the United States. Probably both.

Australia fears Asia backlash over PRISM surveillance revelations

http://intelnews.org/2013/06/26/01-1287/

Snowden leaks may embarrass Canberra

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/snowden-leaks-may-embarrass-canberra-20130625-2ov4l.html

Leaks may embarrass Canberra?

Good, I hope they do. I don't trust our politicians and hope they are shown up for the liars we all know they are.

Your other post about proof re Germany spying is only opinion.

BTW, I don't see any proof Germany, or any of the other nations listening in to the UN headquarters etc.

If the US govt doesn't trust it's allies it will soon find out that it won't have any allies. Next war, go it alone.

[SinglePot]

please read more carefully.

'My points are these. War against terrorism is a new war. China are a new enemy given the emerging world economy.'

If still not clear please allow me to separate the two points.

1. war against terrorism is a new war.

2. China etc.

Obama's got a handful.

btw I read your post and guess what I thought.

[lannarebirth]

I don't see any evidence of US starting wars. Give examples.

How much do you know about China's intentions?

Haven't got anything to say that wouldn't earn me a suspension, just wanted to give your post another airing.

[lannarebirth]

i

I don't see any evidence of US starting wars. Give examples.

How much do you know about China's intentions?

Irak, (no weapons of mass destruction it was all a hoax). The USA has invaded more foreign countries than China ore even Russia has that is for sure.

Indeed I don't know much about China's intentions but if you look at the country with the most foreign conflicts we do know who that is......

Mr Obama needs support. You don't talk like a fan.

Is this some kind of performace art? Satire?

[SinglePot]

i

I don't see any evidence of US starting wars. Give examples.

How much do you know about China's intentions?

Irak, (no weapons of mass destruction it was all a hoax). The USA has invaded more foreign countries than China ore even Russia has that is for sure.

Indeed I don't know much about China's intentions but if you look at the country with the most foreign conflicts we do know who that is......

Mr Obama needs support. You don't talk like a fan.

Is this some kind of performace art? Satire?

Nope. I wish it was.

Deadly serious. Ever lived in Beijing?

[FDog]

The US can use pressure, both military and economic to get what it wants from other countries.

Apparently China is not afforded the same luxury by some.

And to think they call China the enemy because it does the same as the US govt. You can't have your cake and eat it.

By the way, Snowden has officially requested asylum in Russia.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/17828189/snowden-applies-for-political-asylum-in-russia/

[Publicus]

I don't see any evidence of US starting wars. Give examples.

How much do you know about China's intentions?

Haven't got anything to say that wouldn't earn me a suspension, just wanted to give your post another airing.

As to your previous statement that Barack Hussein Obama is the end of all that's sacred, good and decent in respect of the United States, many on the right said that of Franklin Delano Roosevelt 80 years ago. The 1% clique back then even called FDR a traitor to his (socioeconomic) class. It was then, it is now, a reactionary view that is made by its holders to be highly emotive. Many who believe Obama is the end of the United States get hysterical about it. Others keep a more even temper to their thoughts and, around here, to their posts. The latter are a distinct minority, so, despite all else, congrats for that.

Cybernetics and terrorism joined are not the end of the United States. We can handle it, I am absolutely confident of that. Will it be easy, a cakewalk? You and I know it won't be, and we're not alone in this awareness. So we will do it. The difficult takes us a while to do, the impossible a while longer.

The United States is a young country but has a lot of history, most of which is traumatic. We survived a long and horrible civil war. We survived the wild west under a succession of anarchist Republican presidents. We created and capitalized on the Second Industrial Revolution, survived the Great Depression, won World War II, won the Cold War (and are winning the Cold War II against the CCP-PRC). We put humans on the moon and now are sizing up Mars. Bio-medicine continues to advance radically. You know I could go on about it all.

The most Prez Obama is doing is to make the US a little more like the western European social democracies, minus the excesses of their massive and inert statism. That includes social and cultural values as well as a more responsible capitalism that might preclude another 2008 crash and the financial madness that produced it. The 2008 debacle occurred only after Ronald Reagan had shifted the US away from the protections and rationality of the New Deal..

Reagan set the process in motion of the Raw Deal. Obama's elections are the reaction to that, and the news is good.

[lannarebirth]

I don't see any evidence of US starting wars. Give examples.

How much do you know about China's intentions?

Haven't got anything to say that wouldn't earn me a suspension, just wanted to give your post another airing.

As to your previous statement that Barack Hussein Obama is the end of all that's sacred, good and decent in respect of the United States, many on the right said that of Franklin Delano Roosevelt 80 years ago. The 1% clique back then even called FDR a traitor to his (socioeconomic) class. It was then, it is now, a reactionary view that is made by its holders to be highly emotive. Many who believe Obama is the end of the United States get hysterical about it. Others keep a more even temper to their thoughts and, around here, to their posts. The latter are a distinct minority, so, despite all else, congrats for that.

Cybernetics and terrorism joined are not the end of the United States. We can handle it, I am absolutely confident of that. Will it be easy, a cakewalk? You and I know it won't be, and we're not alone in this awareness. So we will do it. The difficult takes us a while to do, the impossible a while longer.

The United States is a young country but has a lot of history, most of which is traumatic. We survived a long and horrible civil war. We survived the wild west under a succession of anarchist Republican presidents. We created and capitalized on the Second Industrial Revolution, survived the Great Depression, won World War II, won the Cold War (and are winning the Cold War II against the CCP-PRC). We put humans on the moon and now are sizing up Mars. Bio-medicine continues to advance radically. You know I could go on about it all.

The most Prez Obama is doing is to make the US a little more like the western European social democracies, minus the excesses of their massive and inert statism. That includes social and cultural values as well as a more responsible capitalism that might preclude another 2008 crash and the financial madness that produced it. The 2008 debacle occurred only after Ronald Reagan had shifted the US away from the protections and rationality of the New Deal..

Reagan set the process in motion of the Raw Deal. Obama's elections are the reaction to that, and the news is good.

Which previous statement is that?

No American I know wants to live in an America that is like Western Europe. Most Western Europeans i know don't want to either. You know you can get the cheeses, beers, sausages in America now, don't you?

[Sing_Sling]

Mr Obama needs support. You don't talk like a fan.

Is this some kind of performace art? Satire?

Nope. I wish it was.

Deadly serious. Ever lived in Beijing?

I'm not sure what living in Beijing has to do with anything, but here goes:

I have been there many times, my brother was at the embassy for close to four years - have you lived in Beijing?

The US can use pressure, both military and economic to get what it wants from other countries.

Apparently China is not afforded the same luxury by some.

And to think they call China the enemy because it does the same as the US govt. You can't have your cake and eat it.

By the way, Snowden has officially requested asylum in Russia.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/17828189/snowden-applies-for-political-asylum-in-russia/

Double standards - there is no doubt that living under a US-style system is preferable to a PRC-style government but that doesn't give the US carte blanche to do as it wishes and not be criticised for it by apologists with an axe to grind with China, the Chinese and even, it seems, Chinese culture.

Comments about the US spying on Germany are replied to by simply saying 'the Germans do it, too', with some links to opinions. Not facts, opinions.

[Publicus]

The people at the 'Germany spies on the US' websites I cited are professionals in the business of intelligence and counterintelligence. They have both the knowledge and experience to say with authority Germany spies on the United States. You are impudent when you try to degrade their professionalism and their courage and dedication to protecting us.

Allies spy on allies. It's as old as the hills to do so.

Snowden isn't the only one who needs to get real about this stuff.

I notice some certain posters have reigned in their indignation and self-righteousness since I made the post. Some hard core others of course have not, never will

Some people trip over facts without ever seeing them because their own opinions get in the way, obstructing the line of sight..

[Scott]

Posts deleted and please be aware that some of you need to hit the edit button quicker.

[Publicus]

Why Edward Snowden is spilling U.S. secrets to China

http://news.yahoo.com/why-edward-snowden-spilling-u-secrets-china-070000923.html

Patrick Chovanek, a financial strategist who once taught economics at a Beijing university, asks the obvious question:

If Snowden is patriot mainly concerned w/ privacy of US citizens, why is he even talking about intel ops vs China?

bit.ly/14xPWkf

The Washington Post's Jia Lynn Yang has another theory. Noting that China has been accusing the U.S. of cyber attacks to counter accusations that it is engaging in widespread cyber-espionage of U.S. companies and government agencies, Yang suggests:

By speaking with Hong Kong's oldest English-language newspaper, Snowden seemed to be directly addressing the city he has chosen as his safe harbor. And by disclosing that he possesses documents that he says describe U.S. hacking against China, he appeared to be trying to win support from the Chinese government. [Washington Post]

Law blogger Ann Althouse notes that "The Guardian published its first story using Snowden's leaks as President Obama was meeting with the President of China." Add in this hacking claim, she says, we now "have some data — enough dots to connect?"

Freelance journalist Joshua Foust has a simpler explanation:

Snowden seems intent more on damaging the US government than righting any wrongs. Astonishing decision.

scmp.com/news/hong-kong…

China already knows we hack into its servers — as does anybody "with a pulse and a functioning brain,"

says Bryan Preston at

Pajamas Media

. So Snowden "must be trolling the NSA along with the media and the rest of the world, because while damaging to disclose, it is not news."

I'm sure the U.S. hacks not only China, but probably Russia, Iran, North Korea, and probably dozens of other governments, friendly and otherwise. And they hack us. Cyberspace has been battle space for decades now. Most Americans already suspected or know this, and are fine with it.... I suspect that [snowden] isn't actually trying to curry favor with the Chinese government, though. He may be signaling that he knows what they've been doing too, or he may be playing some other game. [PJ Media]

Snowden’s Leaks Cloud U.S. Plan to Curb Chinese Hacking

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-01/snowden-s-leaks-cloud-u-s-plan-to-curb-chinese-hacking.html

The Obama administration’s strategy for confronting China over the theft of commercial technology has been battered by Edward Snowden’s disclosures of U.S. spying, leaving officials rushing to salvage a plan they crafted in secret over the past two years.

A public confrontation with China that appeared to erupt spontaneously this year actually coalesced after significant shifts in U.S. policy and years of internal argument, analysis and vetting, according to two people briefed on the plan who asked not to be identified because they weren’t authorized to speak on the matter.

Approved by top national security advisers and presented to President Barack Obama in a series of meetings in 2012 and early this year, the plan includes classified counterintelligence operations, the seizure of assets and even the possible indictment of Chinese hackers, those people said.

The U.S. already has privately provided China’s leaders with evidence it gathered linking the hacks of commercial companies to China’s intelligence agencies -- a risky demarche that exposed the methods of U.S. spy agencies tracking those activities, according to the two people.

Snowden: How the US-China dustup harms Americans

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/china/130626/snowden-how-the-us-china-dustup-harms-americans

What has changed, however, is that Obama’s campaign to stop China from stealing US commercial secrets is effectively dead.

All year, a drumbeat of news about Chinese hackers breaking into the computers of American companies, contractors, lawyers, and journalists had given Obama the high ground to demand concessions from Beijing.

The administration made these alleged thefts a priority out of righteousness, but also because they could cost the US economy billions and erode America’s competitive edge.

Now, thanks to Snowden’s revelations, that leverage is gone.

David Zweig, an expert on Chinese politics at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, says this is unfortunate, given that the spying revealed by Snowden is fundamentally different from cyber theft.

“Everybody knows that governments spy on each other," he said. "Spying is not such a horrific issue, but what China’s been doing is stealing."

“In negotiations on cyber security America is now in a much weaker position, and in terms of theft, I’d rather see China pulled toward global standards rather than America have to back off from those standards."

[mania]

By speaking with Hong Kong's oldest English-language newspaper, Snowden seemed to be directly addressing the city he has chosen as his safe harbor. And by disclosing that he possesses documents that he says describe U.S. hacking against China, he appeared to be trying to win support from the Chinese government.

China already knows we hack into its servers — as does anybody "with a pulse and a functioning brain,"

" because while damaging to disclose, it is not news."

How the US-China dustup harms Americans

What has changed, however, is that Obama’s campaign to stop China from stealing US commercial secrets is effectively dead.

Aside from Snowden probably being off topic in this instance I would address two points.

1- It would be common sense to be forthcoming with a country you are using as safe harbor.

The comment that anyone with a pulse knows the US hacks China is all the more reasons that

those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Another case of do as we preach & not as we ourselves do?

2- As for Snowdens actions harming the USA's ability to scold China for doing what they themselves do?

Accept responsibility for your own wrong action please.

Maybe the US should stop hacking/stealing & then look to tell China to do the same.

The place that Snowden told China was being hacked was a research facility for goodness sake.

This attitude of claiming high ground & not accepting responsibility for your own wrongful acts is really too much.

Either you are righteous/virtuous or your not.

If not then please practice what you preach or don't act indignant

This is tantamount to a thief being caught then blaming the informant

[SinglePot]

definitely on topic. Snowden leaks were simultaneous with Xi Jinping visit to Washington.

Tsinghua university research facility, a centre of excellence for the next phase of cyber development including usage for espionage.

there are some pretty clever geeks in china.

[Publicus]

By speaking with Hong Kong's oldest English-language newspaper, Snowden seemed to be directly addressing the city he has chosen as his safe harbor. And by disclosing that he possesses documents that he says describe U.S. hacking against China, he appeared to be trying to win support from the Chinese government.

China already knows we hack into its servers — as does anybody "with a pulse and a functioning brain,"

" because while damaging to disclose, it is not news."

How the US-China dustup harms Americans

What has changed, however, is that Obama’s campaign to stop China from stealing US commercial secrets is effectively dead.

Aside from Snowden probably being off topic in this instance I would address two points.

1- It would be common sense to be forthcoming with a country you are using as safe harbor.

The comment that anyone with a pulse knows the US hacks China is all the more reasons that

those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Another case of do as we preach & not as we ourselves do?

2- As for Snowdens actions harming the USA's ability to scold China for doing what they themselves do?

Accept responsibility for your own wrong action please.

Maybe the US should stop hacking/stealing & then look to tell China to do the same.

The place that Snowden told China was being hacked was a research facility for goodness sake.

This attitude of claiming high ground & not accepting responsibility for your own wrongful acts is really too much.

Either you are righteous/virtuous or your not.

If not then please practice what you preach or don't act indignant

This is tantamount to a thief being caught then blaming the informant

Naïve.

You know nothing of the CCP. You need to think Nazi Party when you think CCP. You are incapable of doing that because you have no objective or subjective basis of doing so.

Hence your post is cheap opinion suspended in a vacuum.

[mania]

Naïve.

Naive?

That is what I call those with selective morals.

That deem it fair play to do as they admonish other not to do.

As in this case of Cyber Spying

[SinglePot]

US are doing it. Enemies of US are doing it.

2 wrongs don't make a right, agreed.

However the reality is in today's world US is probably less malicious.

[mania]

US are doing it. Enemies of US are doing it.

2 wrongs don't make a right, agreed.

However the reality is in today's world US is probably less malicious.

Yes & of course we would like to think we are not as bad.

But the truth is we do not know anymore.

A better defense against cyber spying would be better than this

so called justified preemptive spying to be sure they are not doing exactly what we ourselves

are engaged in.

But more to the point we should not be pointing fingers or preaching.

It is Hypocrisy

[Credo]

The difference is that Snowden is from the US. If he were from China, and singing like a canary in Washington, D.C. this would be a different story.

But if he were from China, he wouldn't get out of the country alive, most likely

[SinglePot]

What credo says I think is true.

No one in china would dare to walk out of high security building with information they should not have.

[Credo]

In that scenario, no one would be given a job like that unless they had been a long standing and very good member of the Communist party.

[mania]

In that scenario, no one would be given a job like that unless they had been a long standing and very good member of the Communist party.

That is true

I like to hope that there will always be enough

conscience in humans to eventually have at least one or two that

do the right thing at the important turning points in time.

Think back to WWII all the eastern bloc rocket scientist who after developing

great destructive powers at the last moment thought better of it & defected.

Or even the little guy that stood in front of the tanks in

Tiananmen Square in Beijing, June 5 1989

All these kinds of people think not of themselves at the moment they decide

it is so wrong they can no longer in good conscience be a part of

it.

[SinglePot]

Point taken.

Tiananmen protestors stood in front of Chinese tanks and they were killed.

mainland China forbids discussion of Tiananmen. Any dissent and you are likely to be punished.

Homg Kong Chinese protest openly on the streets every year on June 4.

An increasing number of mainland Chinese envy the freedoms that their compatriots in HK and Taiwan enjoy. And the freedoms we in the west enjoy.

that is why central government in Beijing have increasing problems.

the underlying big problem is communist central government trying to run a country hell bent on rampant materialism.

China will evolve. they are a major economic threat to US. they also have a desire to exert their territorial ownership of the South China Sea, which the US and allies in SEAsia are very aware of.

[SinglePot]

Deleted

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.