Thai Education

[muythai2013]

I am always hearing about the poor quality of the Thai Education System.

I just finished watching The Australian news and they claim that 45% of Australians cannot read or write at a basic level, so bad they struggle reading signs and prices at their local supermarket.

People are always saying Thailand is not up to our standards yet all the Thai's I know can read, In Australia you cannot even get a decent feed at School other then a reheated 7/11 style pie or Sausage Roll.

Thai Schools are overcrowded and have issues however I think other nations members need to look at their issues and understand Thailand is not really that bad.

I'm not a Teacher before anyone asked.

[doctorproc156]

Total bullxxxx. Australian literacy rate is 98% (source UNESCO http://www.unesco.org/uil/litbase/?menu=9&programme=133). Thailand is 94% (source UNESCO http://www.unesco.org/uil/litbase/?menu=9&programme=98).

Literacy can be high but the country's productivity and level of innovation can still be low. A country with a good education system creates critical thinkers rather than textbook regurgitate-rs. Students in Thailand are in a culture where challenging the teacher and asking questions is frowned upon and the students simply take in everything they hear. If Thailand's education system isn't bad then why is Thailand no where near the level of Singapore or Japan? Neither country has any resources and their extremely well educated workforce is their prime resource and they make use if it very well.

Edited June 5, 2013 by metisdead
3) Not to post in a manner that is vulgar, obscene or profane.

[ABCer]

Total bullxxxx. Australian literacy rate is 98% (source UNESCO http://www.unesco.org/uil/litbase/?menu=9&programme=133). Thailand is 94% (source UNESCO http://www.unesco.org/uil/litbase/?menu=9&programme=98).

Literacy can be high but the country's productivity and level of innovation can still be low. A country with a good education system creates critical thinkers rather than textbook regurgitate-rs. Students in Thailand are in a culture where challenging the teacher and asking questions is frowned upon and the students simply take in everything they hear. If Thailand's education system isn't bad then why is Thailand no where near the level of Singapore or Japan? Neither country has any resources and their extremely well educated workforce is their prime resource and they make use if it very well.

Couldn't have said it better. I mean about the Thai Education System. Australia is suffering from 'brains drain' while Thailand needs to import 'brains'. But don't say this aloud - they might 'lose the face'.

[sunlong]

I believe this is the study you're referencing? http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/by%20Subject/4228.0~2011-2012~Main%20Features~Preliminary%20findings~99

The standards Australia uses to just literacy rates are higher than those used in Thailand - under 15% of the population are at what Australia calls "Level 1" literacy. Note also Australia is a very multi-cultural society, and older immigrants, particularly among the large numbers of refugees admitted back when they where more humanitarian than now, were never able/willing to learn English.

And I know many many Thais that can't read and write Thai, including some in my own household.

To me the key difference is that Australian kids that are intelligent and keen to learn have excellent schools, teachers and resources available to them, even out in the countryside.

The same is not at all true here, only very wealthy kids have anything close to the same opportunities.

Edited June 5, 2013 by sunlong

[chonabot]

I think you really need to teach in a Government Thai School before you can make an accurate comparison.

The Thai teachers at my school did not even follow the correct curriculum and were often giving extra marks to their favourite students.

These were the ones that bought the teacher's Amway products, usually

My son (14) also attended such a school for one year and is now back in a Western School - a world of difference IMO.

These are just a few of the areas that there are huge differences in, you need a real close look at the Thai education system before you can make a valid comment along those lines.

There is more to education than school dinners

Edited June 5, 2013 by chonabot

[aTomsLife]

To echo others, literacy doesn't necessarily constitute intelligence.

How many Thais who graduated high school (or perhaps univeristy) possess even the most basic critical thinking skills?

For example: A is always equal to B B is always equal to C

Is A, therefore, always equal to C?

Reading it doesn't automatically constitute understanding it.

[muythai2013]

I think you really need to teach in a Government Thai School before you can make an accurate comparison.

The Thai teachers at my school did not even follow the correct curriculum and were often giving extra marks to their favourite students.

These were the ones that bought the teacher's Amway products, usually

My son (14) also attended such a school for one year and is now back in a Western School - a world of difference IMO.

These are just a few of the areas that there are huge differences in, you need a real close look at the Thai education system before you can make a valid comment along those lines.

There is more to education than school dinners

Thankyou, I truly thought it was all about the dinners, I really did, Thankyou for enlightening me.

[muythai2013]

Total bullxxxx. Australian literacy rate is 98% (source UNESCO http://www.unesco.org/uil/litbase/?menu=9&programme=133). Thailand is 94% (source UNESCO http://www.unesco.org/uil/litbase/?menu=9&programme=98).

Literacy can be high but the country's productivity and level of innovation can still be low. A country with a good education system creates critical thinkers rather than textbook regurgitate-rs. Students in Thailand are in a culture where challenging the teacher and asking questions is frowned upon and the students simply take in everything they hear. If Thailand's education system isn't bad then why is Thailand no where near the level of Singapore or Japan? Neither country has any resources and their extremely well educated workforce is their prime resource and they make use if it very well.

I said not that bad, I never said not bad.

Meaning not as bad as many make out, did you miss the part where I said they have many problems or do you just pic pieces out of peoples posts without reading all.

[sunlong]

But it really is that bad, to the point that if you really love your kids and think their education isn't important, and can't afford to home school them or spend THB 600K+ per year each for tuition at one of the country's dozen or so decent international schools it would be irresponsible of you to remain here no matter how miserable you'd be returning home.

[muythai2013]

But it really is that bad, to the point that if you really love your kids and think their education isn't important, and can't afford to home school them or spend THB 600K+ per year each for tuition at one of the country's dozen or so decent international schools it would be irresponsible of you to remain here no matter how miserable you'd be returning home.

Not really an issue for me My children and I are based in Australia.

I am hearing the schools are bad but not hearing what exactly is bad about them other then the children do not answer back and are taught about their culture, how that's bad I don't know.

If they are so bad how do so many go on to uni and succeed from Govt Schools.

As for being irresponsible, It's irresponsible to assume I would be miserable at home, or think their Education is not important when my Daughter who is old enough to go to School is leading her year in every subject.

[chonabot]

I think you really need to teach in a Government Thai School before you can make an accurate comparison.

The Thai teachers at my school did not even follow the correct curriculum and were often giving extra marks to their favourite students.

These were the ones that bought the teacher's Amway products, usually

My son (14) also attended such a school for one year and is now back in a Western School - a world of difference IMO.

These are just a few of the areas that there are huge differences in, you need a real close look at the Thai education system before you can make a valid comment along those lines.

There is more to education than school dinners

Thankyou, I truly thought it was all about the dinners, I really did, Thankyou for enlightening me.

No problem at all

Just curious as to why you included that oblique reference in your opening post?

Regards the students not answering back that you refer to, that also means no questioning the teacher - this leads to zero critical thinking.

On another point that you made - So many students attain success in Government schools and go onto Uni because all Thai students must pass - there is no failure option.

And this carries through to University. I wrote exams for my students and was told that the lowest mark I could give was a 60% pass.

I prefer to make my judgements based on experience, quoting the news doesn't really lend itself to a balanced debate topic.

If you really wanted a serious discussion, you could do worse than listen to those who have actually worked in both environments.

Edited June 5, 2013 by chonabot

[aTomsLife]

.

I am hearing the schools are bad but not hearing what exactly is bad about them other then the children do not answer back and are taught about their culture, how that's bad I don't know.

You really don't know how it's bad?

I gave you an example of why its bad, MT: Thai students are taught what to think, not how to think.

"Answering back" doesn't necessarily equate to being disrespectful. Think about it, please -- you have nearly 900 posts since joining this forum; obviously you see the value in discussion. Here you are, once again, asking a question, and I'm responding to you. What if I was educated to fear offending you, and subsequently held my response here or in real life. If no one ever responded thoughtfully and truly, wouldn't that be bad?

[sunlong]

Not really an issue for me My children and I are based in Australia.

I am hearing the schools are bad but not hearing what exactly is bad about them other then the children do not answer back and are taught about their culture, how that's bad I don't know.

. . .

As for being irresponsible, It's irresponsible to assume I would be miserable at home, or think their Education is not important when my Daughter who is old enough to go to School is leading her year in every subject.

-

I wasn't talking about you specifically at all, just stating my opinion about the general situation.

In past discussion on this topic, many posters have expressed the opinion that "the schools aren't that bad" or "my kids' education isn't that important", and in my opinion it's often just because they're focused on their own happiness rather than their kids' future, and still kid themselves into thinking they really love their kids.

-

If they are so bad how do so many go on to uni and succeed from Govt Schools?

-

Because the universities here are just as bad.

There are of course exceptionally intelligent and motivated students, and/or those with extraordinary home support who end up being able to successfully go on to get higher degrees at western universities.

But they do so despite the education system here, not because of it.

Edited June 5, 2013 by sunlong

[muythai2013]

I think you really need to teach in a Government Thai School before you can make an accurate comparison.

The Thai teachers at my school did not even follow the correct curriculum and were often giving extra marks to their favourite students.

These were the ones that bought the teacher's Amway products, usually

My son (14) also attended such a school for one year and is now back in a Western School - a world of difference IMO.

These are just a few of the areas that there are huge differences in, you need a real close look at the Thai education system before you can make a valid comment along those lines.

There is more to education than school dinners

Thankyou, I truly thought it was all about the dinners, I really did, Thankyou for enlightening me.

Yep..miss out the main point from someone who actually understands the difference - you'll go far my boy

Regards the not answering back you refer to, that also means no questioning the teacher - this leads to zero critical thinking.

I'm open to every post from people who know, however if you choose to end a post with a sarcastic remark get used to it.

[muythai2013]

I'm not doubting they are bad, I really don't know.

Australian schools your told to sit down and shut up whilst the teacher copies stuff from a text book onto the board, and In turn you copy that until the bell sounds.

Any free thinking or questions get you told to be quiet, what's the difference.

Same crap different smell.

[sunlong]

I don't have any experience with the Australian school system, but find it hard to believe what you're describing - which indeed is one of the fundamental problems here in Thailand - is as bad there as it is here.

There's a lot of variability from one town to another in the states, but where I'm planning on bringing my kids at least the primary public school has a great reputation, the PTA has sponsored teachers to get Montessori training, lots of student-directed independent project-based learning etc.

But the high school in that town's really bad, so ten years down the road will have to move to a different town with higher property taxes, unless of course I'm making enough to send them off to private prep schools (well I can dream can't I).

If I had the chance to move to Finland I'd probably take it.

Edited June 5, 2013 by sunlong

[chonabot]

It seems you started a thread and are not really liking the responses, some of them from educators with experience in both camps.

I ended my 'Sarcastic' remark with a smiley, having used this board since 2003 I believe that means no offense meant.

Edited June 5, 2013 by chonabot

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Less than 20% of Thais complete high school.

10 years ago less than 5% of Thais completed high school.

I'm thinking most rural Thais, over 30, can't read or write.

By the way, just for fun, ask any Thai (including your loved one) how many weeks in a year?

Edited June 5, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[muythai2013]

I don't have any experience with the Australian school system, but find it hard to believe what you're describing - which indeed is one of the fundamental problems here in Thailand - is as bad there as it is here.

There's a lot of variability from one town to another in the states, but where I'm planning on bringing my kids at least the primary public school has a great reputation, the PTA has sponsored teachers to get Montessori training, lots of student-directed independent project-based learning etc.

But the high school in that town's really bad, so ten years down the road will have to move to a different town with higher property taxes, unless of course I'm making enough to send them off to private prep schools (well I can dream can't I).

If I had the chance to move to Finland I'd probably take it.

You really have not noticed how shut down we are when it comes to free thinking in the west now, not in the past but now.

Could you for eg express your opinion on Homosexuality without being shut down, even if you were not being offensive.

[chonabot]

Total bullxxxx. Australian literacy rate is 98% (source UNESCO http://www.unesco.org/uil/litbase/?menu=9&programme=133). Thailand is 94% (source UNESCO http://www.unesco.org/uil/litbase/?menu=9&programme=98).

Literacy can be high but the country's productivity and level of innovation can still be low. A country with a good education system creates critical thinkers rather than textbook regurgitate-rs. Students in Thailand are in a culture where challenging the teacher and asking questions is frowned upon and the students simply take in everything they hear. If Thailand's education system isn't bad then why is Thailand no where near the level of Singapore or Japan? Neither country has any resources and their extremely well educated workforce is their prime resource and they make use if it very well.

or do you just pic pieces out of peoples posts without reading all.

Oh the irony....Too funny...I'm done contributing with actual facts and references

Edited June 5, 2013 by chonabot

[sunlong]

Less than 20% of Thais complete high school.

10 years ago less than 5% of Thais completed high school.

I'm thinking most rural Thais, over 30, can't read or write.

By the way, just for fun, ask any Thai (including your loved one) how many weeks in a year?

-

All depends how you define your terms.

Being able to write your own name and slowly decipher a sentence composed with 5th grade level vocabulary (that of most main-stream media back home) is probably the standard used by the CIA factbook I don't know, at that rate Australia's at 99% and Thailand's at 93% - and note these may be government-supplied statistics.

Obviously the new study cited in Australia uses higher standards since the lowest of its five levels applies to nearly 15% of the population.

It is true from my own experience that many rural Thai's can't effectively read and write Thai, but certainly not most.

Now being able to read a map, that's a whole other topic. . .

Edited June 5, 2013 by sunlong

[muythai2013]

It seems you started a thread and are not really liking the responses, some of them from educators with experience in both camps.

I ended my 'Sarcastic' remark with a smiley, having used this board since 2003 I believe that means no offense meant.

I like the responses and believe they are correct, just don't like your smart ass remarks regarding the dinners, turned me off your posts after that.

the other guys are fine.

Edited June 5, 2013 by muythai2013

[sunlong]

You really have not noticed how shut down we are when it comes to free thinking in the west now, not in the past but now.

Could you for eg express your opinion on Homosexuality without being shut down, even if you were not being offensive.

-

On that particular issue I think things are getting much better in recent years, LGBT teachers are often supported by laws and school administration, but as the case of Lucy Meadows in the UK shows, often the community as a whole isn't as far along just yet.

Similarly I pity Muslim children or avowed atheists in many parts of the US, the school systems that allow creationism into the science curriculum sure that's bad education.

Drugs and rampant violence in the community are also related issues that you have to balance in choosing where to raise a family, and there Thailand certainly has its advantages.

[chonabot]

It seems you started a thread and are not really liking the responses, some of them from educators with experience in both camps.

I ended my 'Sarcastic' remark with a smiley, having used this board since 2003 I believe that means no offense meant.

I like the responses and believe they are correct, just don't like smart ass remarks.

Why did you include the school dinner reference in the first place?

[Bangkokhatter]

Part of my job here,when I am not trouble shooting is to carry out Technical training for our Technicians. Before I started my company sent me on a few courses to make me better equipped to carry out that training. These courses were actually great fun and mostly focused on getting the Technician participation.

However, it's been bloody hard work. Just trying to get them to ask a question, or admit they do not understand something is like trying to get blood out of a stone. Talking to the Thai GM he blamed it totally on the Education system here, they are just not encouraged to think for themselves.

Having said that we have a few good ones and they are great during the courses, but it took a while even for them to come out of their shell and question things.

Still enjoyable though !

Edited June 5, 2013 by Bangkokhatter

[benalibina]

Learning kids how to solve a problem is always better than show them how you solve a problem. Ta mai is a question many thais, especially the uneducated 1s, not like to answer. They need to think then. Not like. Headache !

I feel sorry for my kids.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Learning kids how to solve a problem is always better than show them how you solve a problem. Ta mai is a question many thais, especially the uneducated 1s, not like to answer. They need to think then. Not like. Headache !

I feel sorry for my kids.

Do you mean "Teaching kids how to solve a problem is always better than showing them ....." ??????????

Edited June 5, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[muythai2013]

It seems you started a thread and are not really liking the responses, some of them from educators with experience in both camps.

I ended my 'Sarcastic' remark with a smiley, having used this board since 2003 I believe that means no offense meant.

I like the responses and believe they are correct, just don't like smart ass remarks.

Why did you include the school dinner reference in the first place?

well to most it would be obvious that was one of many points, you just tried to make it look like I was saying it's all about the dinners, you new full well that's not what I meant.

It's hard to talk to people when they do that, leads to many BS posts.

[aTomsLife]

I don't have any experience with the Australian school system, but find it hard to believe what you're describing - which indeed is one of the fundamental problems here in Thailand - is as bad there as it is here.

There's a lot of variability from one town to another in the states, but where I'm planning on bringing my kids at least the primary public school has a great reputation, the PTA has sponsored teachers to get Montessori training, lots of student-directed independent project-based learning etc.

But the high school in that town's really bad, so ten years down the road will have to move to a different town with higher property taxes, unless of course I'm making enough to send them off to private prep schools (well I can dream can't I).

If I had the chance to move to Finland I'd probably take it.

You really have not noticed how shut down we are when it comes to free thinking in the west now, not in the past but now.

Could you for eg express your opinion on Homosexuality without being shut down, even if you were not being offensive.

Political correctness is a bane on western society, no doubt. No matter what you say in today's world, someone, somewhere will be offended. I just remind myself that I'm not running for public office, and no one is conducting any opinion polls concerning my popularity. In other words, I'm telling you there's no reason to let someone shut you down.

Still, you make a fair point nonetheless: the west has its own problems: education for education's sake isn't as valued as it once was, and PC run amok is in a sense limiting our thinking and perspectives. However, how the west differs from Thailand is that for us the pendulum is always swinging; we're constantly challenging ourselves in new ways, stepping from our comfort zones.

Eventually western society as a whole will pushback against political correctness -- it's already starting to happen -- whereas Thailand will continue in its way from an unwillingness to admit that what they'd been doing was antiquated or just plain wrong in the first place. That would cause a loss of face, after all.

Edited June 5, 2013 by aTomsLife

[chonabot]

It seems you started a thread and are not really liking the responses, some of them from educators with experience in both camps.

I ended my 'Sarcastic' remark with a smiley, having used this board since 2003 I believe that means no offense meant.

I like the responses and believe they are correct, just don't like smart ass remarks.

Why did you include the school dinner reference in the first place?

well to most it would be obvious that was one of many points, you just tried to make it look like I was saying it's all about the dinners, you new full well that's not what I meant.

It's hard to talk to people when they do that, leads to many BS posts.

Perhaps you could be so good as to read my original post?

I merely referred to it at the end of a post that included 3 valid points.

You chose to ignore those and focus on a smiley laden quip - your loss

Edited June 5, 2013 by chonabot