Farm Land . What Will Happen To The Farmers If They Are Not Financed By The Govt

[WilliamCave]

I have read various posts about the help from the Thai govt for farmers on certain areas , what will happen now when a lot of the assistance will not be coming to certain famers in the rice industry .

It seems many farmers have borrowed a lot of money thinking of the big pay of and used the land as backing for borrowing either from a bank or loan shark.

My wife was telling me some stores in the local area were we are and seems some will have to sell to pay of the loans because the promises made by govts is not as plentiful as first thought from many farmers.

I tell my wife the best think for them is stop borrowing money on speculation and promises from govt

Any views in this , thanks

[IsaanAussie]

WC,

I don't think the government alone can be blamed for bad or misinformed business decisions. Put the politicians aside, the support for farmers through Dept of Agriculture and others is as good as it can get. However the farming community is changing rapidly as is the Thai Nation. Much is written on aging population and the migration of youth away from the farms. Traditionally a large family could live a comfortable if subsistence lifestyle off a very small landholding where everything could be done by the family, manually with manure the main fertiliser. Now it is chemicals and tractors, hired labour, pickup trucks and mobile phones. The issue now is that the small holding size and the reduced labour availability are making these farms unsustainable, hence the loans which cannot be serviced. Most of the money loaned to farmers is via the BAAC the Farmers Bank which is government backed. The system dictates that loans are made to collective groups but now these groups have no more asset backing and have peaked out the loan. They are slow to repay, if at all and the bank is effectively broke. Previous governments have pushed BAAC to fund some pretty suspect programs to achieved popularity at the polls. The situation is grim. Farming must modernise.

[Bluetongue]

IA et al

I've seen the multitudes at BAAC which looks like a bank and in my closest town they've just built themselves a new palace, but maybe you can shed some light on a related query. People I know here (various family members) have all borrowed money off "Sahagon" not sure if that's the right transliteration or not. It looks and feels like a government agricultural support place ie fertilisers seeds rice etc but they all have passbooks. My wife doesn't know that much about it as she hasn't borrowed but she says it is not Government. From what I can tell no-one pays it back, they have periodic meetings where the bosses of the place plead for repayment, they come round home even. All anybody does is complain about the balance owing in their passbooks going up each year with interest. About 6 months ago my sister in law who owes them well over 100k and hasn't paid them a baht in 3 years won a 5000 baht stereo at one of their meetings. <deleted> is going on there? BTW I agree about all the small landholdings but from what small part I see the people gobbling them up are doing so with borrowed money. It would have to stop somewhere, wouldn't it?

[teletiger]

Yes, the Sahagorn is a government run entity. Farmers can get seed corn/rice fertilizer on credit and they sell the produce back to the sahagorn and collect the profit less the credit cost.

The goods they give on credit tend to cost more than on the open market and some of the prices given for the produce do seem low. Our early season feed corn price was always 30% down on the later one. But, unless you have transport, for most people, they are the only game in town.

Funding your own crop will pay lots more than sitting in a bank account.

Regards.

Edit: Not only do the goods cost more, but they also charge interest on the cost.

[teletiger]

I remember one year we joined a scheme that guaranteed the price of the corn. The price at the sahagorn came under the guarantee and when we applied for the difference at the togasor (farmers bank) we were told that the difference was too small to matter. In our case it was 60K Baht! 'And we paid to join the scheme! Some feckers pocket was lined no doubt.

Regards.

[slapout]

tiger, that is one of the resons the Thai system of patronage is still alive and well. The appointed positions receive the monies to disperse to those who are to do their bidding (buying as well as securing votes) The system is made to keep the locals in their place, A small contribution for a wedding, funeral, son going into temple, etc will be delivered so all are aware of where it came from, while the bulk of the government support never gets to those that deserve it.

A pittance goes to the farmer/villagers, with the bulk going where it was intended when the budget request was make and approved.

[loong]

As far as I understand Sahagons, they are supposed to be non profit making co-operatives that were initially funded by the government.

The idea is that they can buy fertiliser, feed etc in bulk so that members can buy it more cheaply and on credit.

The co-operative should also be able to sell at a better price because if they are large enough they can cut out the middlemen.

That's the theory anyway. Seems like they have morphed into banks where you can borrow money without paying it back. I can only guess that the government is still funding them.

[loong]

I read in one of the news items that the government losses for subsidising farmers amounts to some 400 Billion Bt for the last couple of years.

The problem is that the benefit of these subsidies doesn't seem to reach the farmers. or rather very little of it does.

I don't know how many farmers there are in Thailand, but it may be more cost effective to simply hand over some cash to each farmer.

From what I see, most farming is extremely labour intensive. Just a few years ago, farmers were paying 150 or 200 Bt per day for the workforce. Round here, nobody wants to work for less than 300 Bt.

Although I think that it is fair enough that people should earn at least 300 Bt/day, I think that the increased costs probably make a once profitable farm turn into a loss maker. Especially when you consider that other costs seem to be increasing all the time with little or no increase in return.

What will happen to the farmers if they receive no help from the government?

I believe that it is getting close to tipping point and the only way forward for the farmer is to increase efficiency. This will probably mean larger farms and more mechanisation.

Of course, with more mechanisation, there will be fewer jobs. That means that those who are now earning a small income from the agricultural sector will have no income at all. Not everyone can move to the cities and towns and find work.

[Bluetongue]

Thanks for the clarifications on Sahagon, I see no sign here of anybody selling anything through Sahagon. I know the villagers used to borrow money off the Chinese in town to grow a corn crop, at harvest time he would come and get it. People may have made their original debt to Sahagon from growing corn but no longer grow corn. Corn is a bit iffy here if the rains are reliable you can get two crops, but sometimes you get nothing.

I agree Loong underemployment is what is happening now, you get people foraging, scraping together enough to live, or the old bats that live on absolutely nothing apart from their 800 baht pension, which Yingluck said would be 1000, still isn't as far as I know. The village kings (those buying up and renting the land) use Cambodian labour and drive them from one farm to another. They have a few tame Thais working for them but the carrot for them is the Cambodians do all the "heavy lifting". I pay 300 now and I have been trying to talk my family into doing things smarter and cooperatively on our various properties to save us all costs, problem is that they are so set in their ways (for want of a better expression than dumb) that if I relax for a minute they are back to the old ways. Between us we have enough land and fruit trees to remain competitive but singly they will fall and although I'd like to pick up the pieces at the right price my resources don't stretch that far. Besides I came here to retire with only modest desires to succeed at the farming game I don't really want the stress of juggling it all myself.

[cooked]

The other alternative around here is to borrow money 'from the Chinese'. Ignorant people don't understand what 20% interest (a month!) means. My wife nearly lost her land one time when she did this. There are also cases where these guys just take over a piece of land and build or cultivate on it without asking, no one has title deeds or money for a lawyer.

Things seem to be moving in the direction of fewer landowners, larger more efficient farms. As mentioned above, these will be worked by Cambodians and Burmese. I think that a generation from now things will be very different.

[IsaanAussie]

20%? Wish I didn't believe people could be that uninformed. 10% is as high as I have heard of before. Still at those rates it doesnt matter,the outcome will be the same.

There are several houses in our village that have been rebuilt by sons and daughters living and working in the big smoke. A couple have had a lot of money spent on them. The actual occupants, older people, now cook on charcoal outside so they dont get their own houses dirty. The funders state that they plan to live in the house when they get "old" and "don't need to work any more".

About as prepared for the future as my own country is to deal with the aging Baby Boomer generation. So I suppose we only have to look at the fate of farmers in the westerner world over the last forty years to get an idea what will happen here.

[Michael Hare]

20%? Wish I didn't believe people could be that uninformed. 10% is as high as I have heard of before. Still at those rates it doesnt matter,the outcome will be the same.

There are several houses in our village that have been rebuilt by sons and daughters living and working in the big smoke. A couple have had a lot of money spent on them. The actual occupants, older people, now cook on charcoal outside so they dont get their own houses dirty. The funders state that they plan to live in the house when they get "old" and "don't need to work any more".

About as prepared for the future as my own country is to deal with the aging Baby Boomer generation. So I suppose we only have to look at the fate of farmers in the westerner world over the last forty years to get an idea what will happen here.

Depends which part of the Western World you are referring to IsaanAussie. Probably Europe and North America. I come from New Zealand and own a farm in the North Island. Over the last forty years the farmers seem to be going from strength to strength, particularly since government subsidies were removed and the farmers had to become productive. Farming is a business for the hard-working and the intelligent. I was there in April. Believe me, the farmers are doing very well. In particular the dairy farmers. Their biggest fear is the increasing number of overseas buyers, like the Chinese, coming in and buying good dairy farm land.

[IsaanAussie]

20%? Wish I didn't believe people could be that uninformed. 10% is as high as I have heard of before. Still at those rates it doesnt matter,the outcome will be the same.

There are several houses in our village that have been rebuilt by sons and daughters living and working in the big smoke. A couple have had a lot of money spent on them. The actual occupants, older people, now cook on charcoal outside so they dont get their own houses dirty. The funders state that they plan to live in the house when they get "old" and "don't need to work any more".

About as prepared for the future as my own country is to deal with the aging Baby Boomer generation. So I suppose we only have to look at the fate of farmers in the westerner world over the last forty years to get an idea what will happen here.

Depends which part of the Western World you are referring to IsaanAussie. Probably Europe and North America. I come from New Zealand and own a farm in the North Island. Over the last forty years the farmers seem to be going from strength to strength, particularly since government subsidies were removed and the farmers had to become productive. Farming is a business for the hard-working and the intelligent. I was there in April. Believe me, the farmers are doing very well. In particular the dairy farmers. Their biggest fear is the increasing number of overseas buyers, like the Chinese, coming in and buying good dairy farm land.

I agree, all countries are different and some have fostered a strong farming community. Most however have gone through a transition where the farmer has been marginalised for a least a few years. It is not the current position I was referring to, but the sequence of events most farming industries go through. In Australia the farmers had high levels of representation in government mid last century but that diminished as more people became involved in professional and industrial careers. Here in Thailand the percentage of people in farming is reducing and the interest of successive governments has been focused on industrialising the country. A close parallel. Today Australian farming is almost corporate or at least large scale enterprises to survive. There will always be a place for the niche farmer in any market. But his viability will depend on direct market access and not the middleman chain that exists here. The farmers around me have no idea how to develop such a marketing ploy and the co-operatives formed between them have failed to address the issue. Land transfer laws are unwieldy requiring whole families to attend. ASEAN Economic Community opening is driving property values near main roads and borders sky high. The government is investing in supporting this international trade, but I see it only benefiting the larger corporate players.

But change is must and will. The only clear path I can see is the consolidation of land as the current generation of small holding farmers die off and few replacements are found. Natural attrition if you will.

[SICHONSTEVE]

WC,

I don't think the government alone can be blamed for bad or misinformed business decisions. Put the politicians aside, the support for farmers through Dept of Agriculture and others is as good as it can get. However the farming community is changing rapidly as is the Thai Nation. Much is written on aging population and the migration of youth away from the farms. Traditionally a large family could live a comfortable if subsistence lifestyle off a very small landholding where everything could be done by the family, manually with manure the main fertiliser. Now it is chemicals and tractors, hired labour, pickup trucks and mobile phones. The issue now is that the small holding size and the reduced labour availability are making these farms unsustainable, hence the loans which cannot be serviced. Most of the money loaned to farmers is via the BAAC the Farmers Bank which is government backed. The system dictates that loans are made to collective groups but now these groups have no more asset backing and have peaked out the loan. They are slow to repay, if at all and the bank is effectively broke. Previous governments have pushed BAAC to fund some pretty suspect programs to achieved popularity at the polls. The situation is grim. Farming must modernise.

Absolute claptrap!!

Blame it on this government for implementing this catastrophic 'rice pledging scheme', as they were warned against implementing it by everyone who could foresee nothing but disaster ahead!!

My advice to the farmers - stop being so blind and stupid and vote for the Democrats at the next election and not for immoral, unethical and ill-advised populist policies that don't produce good outcomes!!!

Too much to expect - undoubtedly, so let them wallow and mire in their self inflicted debts and despair, as they only have themselves to blame!!

[billd766]

20%? Wish I didn't believe people could be that uninformed. 10% is as high as I have heard of before. Still at those rates it doesnt matter,the outcome will be the same.

There are several houses in our village that have been rebuilt by sons and daughters living and working in the big smoke. A couple have had a lot of money spent on them. The actual occupants, older people, now cook on charcoal outside so they dont get their own houses dirty. The funders state that they plan to live in the house when they get "old" and "don't need to work any more".

About as prepared for the future as my own country is to deal with the aging Baby Boomer generation. So I suppose we only have to look at the fate of farmers in the westerner world over the last forty years to get an idea what will happen here.

When I used to live in BKK a few years ago some of the girls in the bar were paying 20 baht per 1,000 per DAY

It is hard to get out when you are in that deep.

[IsaanAussie]

Absolute claptrap!!

Blame it on this government for implementing this catastrophic 'rice pledging scheme', as they were warned against implementing it by everyone who could foresee nothing but disaster ahead!!

My advice to the farmers - stop being so blind and stupid and vote for the Democrats at the next election and not for immoral, unethical and ill-advised populist policies that don't produce good outcomes!!!

Too much to expect - undoubtedly, so let them wallow and mire in their self inflicted debts and despair, as they only have themselves to blame!!

Thank you for your comment. Coming from someone obviously living in a rural area and having a vast amount of experience and knowledge of the cultural background, I am impressed.

[IsaanAussie]

Apart from the government assistance, most people around here rely on family living away to fund the yearly rice crop. Here there are several instances of people who are skipping steps in preparation and planting that they have always done before, because that money is not available this year. This will lead to weed infested rice harvest,reduced yields and reduced income. When pushed for why, the answer is the same, family has a new "first time buy" car. That in itself is another story that should get interesting around Christmas when the freebie packages and rebates run out and the monthly costs skyrocket.

Another issue is a change made to the law which passes the debt non-repayments of the children on to the parents.

To quote from the movie "Snatch" as the cockneys drove into the gypsy camp, "This will get messy!"

[SICHONSTEVE]

Absolute claptrap!!

Blame it on this government for implementing this catastrophic 'rice pledging scheme', as they were warned against implementing it by everyone who could foresee nothing but disaster ahead!!

My advice to the farmers - stop being so blind and stupid and vote for the Democrats at the next election and not for immoral, unethical and ill-advised populist policies that don't produce good outcomes!!!

Too much to expect - undoubtedly, so let them wallow and mire in their self inflicted debts and despair, as they only have themselves to blame!!

Thank you for your comment. Coming from someone obviously living in a rural area and having a vast amount of experience and knowledge of the cultural background, I am impressed.

Actually, I do live in a rural area surrounded by tree covered mountains, palm, rubber and coconut trees and without a factory and only a few houses within sight of our land and I'm happy that you are impressed with my answer as it indicates I got it right!!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Apart from the government assistance, most people around here rely on family living away to fund the yearly rice crop. Here there are several instances of people who are skipping steps in preparation and planting that they have always done before, because that money is not available this year. This will lead to weed infested rice harvest,reduced yields and reduced income. When pushed for why, the answer is the same, family has a new "first time buy" car. That in itself is another story that should get interesting around Christmas when the freebie packages and rebates run out and the monthly costs skyrocket.

Another issue is a change made to the law which passes the debt non-repayments of the children on to the parents.

To quote from the movie "Snatch" as the cockneys drove into the gypsy camp, "This will get messy!"

Are the poor farmers supposed to thank the government in assisting them to go bankrupt and run up massive debts.

I presume that the government is not to blame either with the 'short term benefits' aid to the car industry for helping the farmers to exacerbate their debts and create the opportunity for the younger generation to leave paddy farming and create additional labour shortages.

They are clearly not to blame in making legislation for passing the burden of non-repayments (of debts that they caused in the first place) onto the children. On that, when the parents die upon who does this get passed to? (the grandparents if they are still alive)?.

[IsaanAussie]

Apart from the government assistance, most people around here rely on family living away to fund the yearly rice crop. Here there are several instances of people who are skipping steps in preparation and planting that they have always done before, because that money is not available this year. This will lead to weed infested rice harvest,reduced yields and reduced income. When pushed for why, the answer is the same, family has a new "first time buy" car. That in itself is another story that should get interesting around Christmas when the freebie packages and rebates run out and the monthly costs skyrocket.

Another issue is a change made to the law which passes the debt non-repayments of the children on to the parents.

To quote from the movie "Snatch" as the cockneys drove into the gypsy camp, "This will get messy!"

Are the poor farmers supposed to thank the government in assisting them to go bankrupt and run up massive debts.

I presume that the government is not to blame either with the 'short term benefits' aid to the car industry for helping the farmers to exacerbate their debts and create the opportunity for the younger generation to leave paddy farming and create additional labour shortages.

They are clearly not to blame in making legislation for passing the burden of non-repayments (of debts that they caused in the first place) onto the children. On that, when the parents die upon who does this get passed to? (the grandparents if they are still alive)?.

At the time this vehicle policy was implemented the Thai baht was low. It was not in the interest of the government or the car industry to sell locally instead of exporting. Can you explain your point?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Apart from the government assistance, most people around here rely on family living away to fund the yearly rice crop. Here there are several instances of people who are skipping steps in preparation and planting that they have always done before, because that money is not available this year. This will lead to weed infested rice harvest,reduced yields and reduced income. When pushed for why, the answer is the same, family has a new "first time buy" car. That in itself is another story that should get interesting around Christmas when the freebie packages and rebates run out and the monthly costs skyrocket.

Another issue is a change made to the law which passes the debt non-repayments of the children on to the parents.

To quote from the movie "Snatch" as the cockneys drove into the gypsy camp, "This will get messy!"

Are the poor farmers supposed to thank the government in assisting them to go bankrupt and run up massive debts.

I presume that the government is not to blame either with the 'short term benefits' aid to the car industry for helping the farmers to exacerbate their debts and create the opportunity for the younger generation to leave paddy farming and create additional labour shortages.

They are clearly not to blame in making legislation for passing the burden of non-repayments (of debts that they caused in the first place) onto the children. On that, when the parents die upon who does this get passed to? (the grandparents if they are still alive)?.

At the time this vehicle policy was implemented the Thai baht was low. It was not in the interest of the government or the car industry to sell locally instead of exporting. Can you explain your point?

Certainly!!!

From an article in the Nation.

The government's "buy your first car now, get the car next year" policy, which has undergone an extension in terms of the vehicle delivery period, is considered the biggest boost in the auto industry's 50-year history.

Industry sources say the government's initial Bt30-billion budget, to be paid back to 500,000 first-time car buyers, can easily be raised to cater to an additional 100,000 buyers, who are expected to speed up car purchases before the government's December 31 deadline expires.

As a result, automobile sales in Thailand could reach 1.3 million vehicles this year, one source said.

According to Suparat, auto production is at full capacity (with overtime being introduced), and parts suppliers are also running at full steam.

"It is expected that total auto production will reach 2.2 million to 2.3 million vehicles this year, with 1.2 million vehicles being sold domestically and 1 million being exported."

[Michael Hare]

I do not live in a village. I live in the city (Ubon Ratchathani). However, I run a forage seed business which contracts village farmers to produce forage seeds for us. This year we have in Thailand 840 farmers in 28 villages and in Laos, 1,376 farmers in 96 villages. As such, I am frequently in villages. I find all the farmers I work with to be very hard-working, otherwise I wouldn’t get my seed because it is a difficult job. It takes brains to produce grass seed. I look at their weather-beaten lined faces from years in the sun (both men and women) and
ragged hands and blacken feet and they fully deserve every baht they get. It is a tough life.

For years now the Thai farmers have begged me to advance them fertiliser on credit and deduct the cost when the seed is purchased. I always thought that was too risky and said no. However, last year we decided to give it a try and it worked. We got all our fertiliser money back. I am now in the process of buying 91,750 kg of fertiliser (all NPK of varying mixes). It is a big
job to distribute all this fertiliser to these farmers. But they are so happy because for them to get advanced fertiliser is a huge thing.

After years of saying no to advancing fertiliser, I now know that many of the farmers just do not have working capital to run their farms. We also give out free seed to start their production fields and now advance fertiliser.

We charge no interest, no transport costs and the maximum amount we deduct is 1,000 baht/bag. If a bag costs 950 baht we deduct 950 baht.
If a bag costs 1,050 baht, we deduct only 1,000 baht. Choice of fertiliser is up to the farmers.

We only do this fertiliser programme with the farmers we know and trust.

I don’t do this in Laos as there are too many other factors there that would cause complications.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I do not live in a village. I live in the city (Ubon Ratchathani). However, I run a forage seed business which contracts village farmers to produce forage seeds for us. This year we have in Thailand 840 farmers in 28 villages and in Laos, 1,376 farmers in 96 villages. As such, I am frequently in villages. I find all the farmers I work with to be very hard-working, otherwise I wouldn’t get my seed because it is a difficult job. It takes brains to produce grass seed. I look at their weather-beaten lined faces from years in the sun (both men and women) and

ragged hands and blacken feet and they fully deserve every baht they get. It is a tough life.

For years now the Thai farmers have begged me to advance them fertiliser on credit and deduct the cost when the seed is purchased. I always thought that was too risky and said no. However, last year we decided to give it a try and it worked. We got all our fertiliser money back. I am now in the process of buying 91,750 kg of fertiliser (all NPK of varying mixes). It is a big

job to distribute all this fertiliser to these farmers. But they are so happy because for them to get advanced fertiliser is a huge thing.

After years of saying no to advancing fertiliser, I now know that many of the farmers just do not have working capital to run their farms. We also give out free seed to start their production fields and now advance fertiliser.

We charge no interest, no transport costs and the maximum amount we deduct is 1,000 baht/bag. If a bag costs 950 baht we deduct 950 baht.

If a bag costs 1,050 baht, we deduct only 1,000 baht. Choice of fertiliser is up to the farmers.

We only do this fertiliser programme with the farmers we know and trust.

I don’t do this in Laos as there are too many other factors there that would cause complications.

Well done for helping. You are obviously making good money from this but, you took a risk in advancing fertiliser and not knowing whether you would get your money back, so fair play to you!!!!

[IsaanAussie]

I do not live in a village. I live in the city (Ubon Ratchathani). However, I run a forage seed business which contracts village farmers to produce forage seeds for us. This year we have in Thailand 840 farmers in 28 villages and in Laos, 1,376 farmers in 96 villages. As such, I am frequently in villages. I find all the farmers I work with to be very hard-working, otherwise I wouldn’t get my seed because it is a difficult job. It takes brains to produce grass seed. I look at their weather-beaten lined faces from years in the sun (both men and women) and

ragged hands and blacken feet and they fully deserve every baht they get. It is a tough life.

For years now the Thai farmers have begged me to advance them fertiliser on credit and deduct the cost when the seed is purchased. I always thought that was too risky and said no. However, last year we decided to give it a try and it worked. We got all our fertiliser money back. I am now in the process of buying 91,750 kg of fertiliser (all NPK of varying mixes). It is a big

job to distribute all this fertiliser to these farmers. But they are so happy because for them to get advanced fertiliser is a huge thing.

After years of saying no to advancing fertiliser, I now know that many of the farmers just do not have working capital to run their farms. We also give out free seed to start their production fields and now advance fertiliser.

We charge no interest, no transport costs and the maximum amount we deduct is 1,000 baht/bag. If a bag costs 950 baht we deduct 950 baht.

If a bag costs 1,050 baht, we deduct only 1,000 baht. Choice of fertiliser is up to the farmers.

We only do this fertiliser programme with the farmers we know and trust.

I don’t do this in Laos as there are too many other factors there that would cause complications.

Michael, you are a saint offering this package. The normal system here is the bag price is increased, a compounding interest rate applies (often double figures per month) and a percentage of the crop is taken as well. As greedy as it sounds, for many people, as you say, it is the only way they can finance their crop to provide rice for the family table.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I do not live in a village. I live in the city (Ubon Ratchathani). However, I run a forage seed business which contracts village farmers to produce forage seeds for us. This year we have in Thailand 840 farmers in 28 villages and in Laos, 1,376 farmers in 96 villages. As such, I am frequently in villages. I find all the farmers I work with to be very hard-working, otherwise I wouldn’t get my seed because it is a difficult job. It takes brains to produce grass seed. I look at their weather-beaten lined faces from years in the sun (both men and women) and

ragged hands and blacken feet and they fully deserve every baht they get. It is a tough life.

For years now the Thai farmers have begged me to advance them fertiliser on credit and deduct the cost when the seed is purchased. I always thought that was too risky and said no. However, last year we decided to give it a try and it worked. We got all our fertiliser money back. I am now in the process of buying 91,750 kg of fertiliser (all NPK of varying mixes). It is a big

job to distribute all this fertiliser to these farmers. But they are so happy because for them to get advanced fertiliser is a huge thing.

After years of saying no to advancing fertiliser, I now know that many of the farmers just do not have working capital to run their farms. We also give out free seed to start their production fields and now advance fertiliser.

We charge no interest, no transport costs and the maximum amount we deduct is 1,000 baht/bag. If a bag costs 950 baht we deduct 950 baht.

If a bag costs 1,050 baht, we deduct only 1,000 baht. Choice of fertiliser is up to the farmers.

We only do this fertiliser programme with the farmers we know and trust.

I don’t do this in Laos as there are too many other factors there that would cause complications.

Michael, you are a saint offering this package. The normal system here is the bag price is increased, a compounding interest rate applies (often double figures per month) and a percentage of the crop is taken as well. As greedy as it sounds, for many people, as you say, it is the only way they can finance their crop to provide rice for the family table.

Crikey!!!!

We are singing from the same hymn book now.

[Michael Hare]

I am not a saint, but thank you for the compliment. I just need my grass seed. I am completing for farmer's land use against other upland crops such as cassava and rubber. I want to have good trust-worthy farmers who produce high quality seed, year in and year out. Not rubbish that fails to germinate. WE are a small company that prides itself on quality.

Buying and distributing this fertiliser is a massive job I could well do without. However, it keeps our good farmers together. And, hopefully, keeps them on the land.

[IsaanAussie]

I do not live in a village. I live in the city (Ubon Ratchathani). However, I run a forage seed business which contracts village farmers to produce forage seeds for us. This year we have in Thailand 840 farmers in 28 villages and in Laos, 1,376 farmers in 96 villages. As such, I am frequently in villages. I find all the farmers I work with to be very hard-working, otherwise I wouldn’t get my seed because it is a difficult job. It takes brains to produce grass seed. I look at their weather-beaten lined faces from years in the sun (both men and women) and

ragged hands and blacken feet and they fully deserve every baht they get. It is a tough life.

For years now the Thai farmers have begged me to advance them fertiliser on credit and deduct the cost when the seed is purchased. I always thought that was too risky and said no. However, last year we decided to give it a try and it worked. We got all our fertiliser money back. I am now in the process of buying 91,750 kg of fertiliser (all NPK of varying mixes). It is a big

job to distribute all this fertiliser to these farmers. But they are so happy because for them to get advanced fertiliser is a huge thing.

After years of saying no to advancing fertiliser, I now know that many of the farmers just do not have working capital to run their farms. We also give out free seed to start their production fields and now advance fertiliser.

We charge no interest, no transport costs and the maximum amount we deduct is 1,000 baht/bag. If a bag costs 950 baht we deduct 950 baht.

If a bag costs 1,050 baht, we deduct only 1,000 baht. Choice of fertiliser is up to the farmers.

We only do this fertiliser programme with the farmers we know and trust.

I don’t do this in Laos as there are too many other factors there that would cause complications.

Michael, you are a saint offering this package. The normal system here is the bag price is increased, a compounding interest rate applies (often double figures per month) and a percentage of the crop is taken as well. As greedy as it sounds, for many people, as you say, it is the only way they can finance their crop to provide rice for the family table.

Crikey!!!!

We are singing from the same hymn book now.

Really, that's nice. But to tell the truth my singing voice is lousey and I am not religious.

[Jotham79]

We must be lucky. We get our seed (our choice of brand) and fertilizer through a guy and he buys our havest of corn and deducts the expenses. Basically, little mark up and no interest. He has the trucks to haul the grain and knows in advance what he will have to sell. Appearantly he makes his money on volume. I don't care if he is making his as we're making our profit of close to 4,000 baht per rai minus the BIL's share. We are first in line for his trucks and don't have to wait.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I do not live in a village. I live in the city (Ubon Ratchathani). However, I run a forage seed business which contracts village farmers to produce forage seeds for us. This year we have in Thailand 840 farmers in 28 villages and in Laos, 1,376 farmers in 96 villages. As such, I am frequently in villages. I find all the farmers I work with to be very hard-working, otherwise I wouldn’t get my seed because it is a difficult job. It takes brains to produce grass seed. I look at their weather-beaten lined faces from years in the sun (both men and women) and

ragged hands and blacken feet and they fully deserve every baht they get. It is a tough life.

For years now the Thai farmers have begged me to advance them fertiliser on credit and deduct the cost when the seed is purchased. I always thought that was too risky and said no. However, last year we decided to give it a try and it worked. We got all our fertiliser money back. I am now in the process of buying 91,750 kg of fertiliser (all NPK of varying mixes). It is a big

job to distribute all this fertiliser to these farmers. But they are so happy because for them to get advanced fertiliser is a huge thing.

After years of saying no to advancing fertiliser, I now know that many of the farmers just do not have working capital to run their farms. We also give out free seed to start their production fields and now advance fertiliser.

We charge no interest, no transport costs and the maximum amount we deduct is 1,000 baht/bag. If a bag costs 950 baht we deduct 950 baht.

If a bag costs 1,050 baht, we deduct only 1,000 baht. Choice of fertiliser is up to the farmers.

We only do this fertiliser programme with the farmers we know and trust.

I don’t do this in Laos as there are too many other factors there that would cause complications.

Michael, you are a saint offering this package. The normal system here is the bag price is increased, a compounding interest rate applies (often double figures per month) and a percentage of the crop is taken as well. As greedy as it sounds, for many people, as you say, it is the only way they can finance their crop to provide rice for the family table.

Crikey!!!!

We are singing from the same hymn book now.

Really, that's nice. But to tell the truth my singing voice is lousey and I am not religious.

We've got more in common than I thought as I can't sing either and I'm not religious although I do respect some aspects of buddhism.

[Michael Hare]

While the critics here attack the government’s policy of buying rice at higher than market values, just take a look at what happens in the USA that keeps the farmers on the land.

Subsidized crop insurance. This enables farmers to receive the same amount of money each year even if they produce less if say a drought
hits like last year.

The drought hit the Corn Belt hard last year, but farmers still did well because they were able to sell their reduced crop at higher prices. In
addition, the insurance payments they received for their losses were often based on drought-inflated prices.

Richard Gates, who farms about 1,000 acres in Carmi, Ill., lost 80 percent of his corn crop. Still, he says he earned as much profit as he would have if the drought had never happened.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/20130610/senates-new-farm-bill-will-waste-billions-subsidies-critics-say

And while direct payments to farmers will end, there still will be continual government subsidies.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324904004578537850230355808.html

Thai agriculture can not compete with the above and countries like my own, New Zealand, also can not. But what we in NZ can get, is easy bank credit. Farmers can go into overdraft, receive working capital and pay it back when the crops are sold, the sheep shorn or the animals sold.

And I don’t even want to discuss what happens in Europe. There many governments want to keep the countryside looking good for urban people to holiday and drive through.

I would like to think that Thailand would be the "food bowl" of Southeast Asia. Plenty of land. But, alas, I fear that one day Thailand will become a food importer. There is just no long term agricultural planning here at all.