Thailand's English Skills Lowest In S E A

[Noistar]

Thailand's version of English is only available , understood (maybe) and taught in Thailand, outside of the Kingdom the disciples of this form of English will be found wanting. Thai English teachers dont understand it or how to teach it effectively, like many of the foreign teachers, they try try to teach a version to Thai standards.

What they dont understand is that to teach English you first have to teach English English and you have to think like an English person to understand it, applying the Thai culture to English does not work which is why there will be a big surprise in the new year when Asean kicks off.

IMO you're right.

I've found that much of the problem hinges around the fact that there is an apparent lack of recognition that languages are different.

Most of the Thais I have come across just translate Thai to English - hence thaiglish.

If they 'thought' English this would help enormously. It just seems that they cannot grasp that languages have different structures, not just different vocabularies.

[Noistar]

Interesting news item today about students in Liberia failing their university entrance exams, meaning some universities will have no new intake.

It cites the civil war which ended a decade ago - an excuse Thailand hasn't got.

"Liberia's education minister says she finds it hard to believe that not a single candidate passed this year's university admission exam.

Nearly 25,000 school-leavers failed the test for admission to the University of Liberia, one of two state-run universities.

The students lacked enthusiasm and did not have a basic grasp of English

...

Many schools lack basic education material and teachers are poorly qualified"

Sounds familiar, and I imagine many people would easily accept the article if 'Liberia' was replaced by 'Thailand'.

Difference is, of course, in Thailand failure is not even acknowledged, let alone used as a spur to improve.

[Thorgal]

As long as the Thais prefer to save face ( for whatever reson they shouldloose ?) above income.. it will not improve.

Bye-the way: loosing from Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines all with historic ties to the English language..is understandable, but.. to loose from Indonesia..

Yeah, than we -westerners- should all have brilliant results if we have to do a similar Scandinavian-Viking test.

No, the test only proved that with a small population, you get easier a higher score...

Edited August 27, 2013 by Thorgal

[cougar52]

.

The cinemas still put out dubbed soundtracks which are infinitely more popular than original

Not so sure about that one. I go to the cinema at least 2 - 3 times a month, and I don't even need to look for a show with the original soundtrack. They all have it.

For your information; I live i Phetchabun in the North East and you can not find a Original Soundtrack Movie in English, so you must be living in Bangkok or some other place where a lot of foreigners reside. It is also had to even find a original soundtrack DVD in English

[Noistar]

.

The cinemas still put out dubbed soundtracks which are infinitely more popular than original

Not so sure about that one. I go to the cinema at least 2 - 3 times a month, and I don't even need to look for a show with the original soundtrack. They all have it.

For your information; I live i Phetchabun in the North East and you can not find a Original Soundtrack Movie in English, so you must be living in Bangkok or some other place where a lot of foreigners reside. It is also had to even find a original soundtrack DVD in English

It must be Petchabun - in CM I watched Monster University in English and all the (many!) trailers for a variety of films were in English with Thai subtitles.

As you say, might be a rare occasion when many Farang = benefit to Farang.

[Noistar]

As long as the Thais prefer to save face ( for whatever reson they shouldloose ?) above income.. it will not improve.

Bye-the way: loosing from Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines all with historic ties to the English language..is understandable, but.. to loose from Indonesia..

Yeah, than we -westerners- should all have brilliant results if we have to do a similar Scandinavian-Viking test.

No, the test only proved that with a small population, you get easier a higher score...

Why?

A decent education system with a priority on any subject will get a high 'score' irrespective of population.

The problem here is the rationing of decent education, coupled with a distorted qualification rate.

If a Graduate has an MA in English I don't expect them to pronounce 'vee' 'wee'. I expect them to know that you turn on lights and open doors, not vice-versa.

Where do the competent english graduates end up? Certainly doesn't appear to be as English teachers. Begs the question - "are there ANY competent English graduates"?

[francescoassisi]

Here's a short BBC take on school education in Thailand ...

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23845345

And an interesting article from the Nation

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/663186-english-language-course-a-hit/

Edited August 29, 2013 by francescoassisi

[francescoassisi]

As long as the Thais prefer to save face ( for whatever reson they shouldloose ?) above income.. it will not improve.

Bye-the way: loosing from Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines all with historic ties to the English language..is understandable, but.. to loose from Indonesia..

Yeah, than we -westerners- should all have brilliant results if we have to do a similar Scandinavian-Viking test.

No, the test only proved that with a small population, you get easier a higher score...

Why?

A decent education system with a priority on any subject will get a high 'score' irrespective of population.

The problem here is the rationing of decent education, coupled with a distorted qualification rate.

If a Graduate has an MA in English I don't expect them to pronounce 'vee' 'wee'. I expect them to know that you turn on lights and open doors, not vice-versa.

Where do the competent english graduates end up? Certainly doesn't appear to be as English teachers. Begs the question - "are there ANY competent English graduates"?

What do you mean "English graduate"? What are you expecting from someone with an in depth knowledge of English Literature? Degrees - especially in humanities are seldom directly related to jobs. Edited August 29, 2013 by francescoassisi

[ABCer]

You mean it needed tests to come to this conclusion?

Several years ago I was in the situation of having to correspond at length with the head of the English department at one of the big Bangkok Universities . . . the lady in charge of teaching the teachers. I was astonished to discover that her written English was probably similar to that of a bright UK/USA/Aus etc 8-or 9-year-old . . . ie, confident but littered with grammatical and structural mistakes.

Will the Thai nation remain smug and offhand when it is suddenly out in the same competitive trading arena as the other ASEAN countries?

And will it keep its back turned with even fiercer pride, and shout even more loudly about how much finer the nation is than its . . . neighbours?

YOOOOOOOOOO BETCHA IT WILL!

R

In my younger years (lo-ong time ago) we used to say: - 'A dog is a very intelligent animal. It understands everything. What a pity it cannot say anything'...

And another one: - 'All people can talk. But what's the use if so many have nothing to say'...

[Noistar]

As long as the Thais prefer to save face ( for whatever reson they shouldloose ?) above income.. it will not improve.

Bye-the way: loosing from Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines all with historic ties to the English language..is understandable, but.. to loose from Indonesia..

Yeah, than we -westerners- should all have brilliant results if we have to do a similar Scandinavian-Viking test.

No, the test only proved that with a small population, you get easier a higher score...

Why?

A decent education system with a priority on any subject will get a high 'score' irrespective of population.

The problem here is the rationing of decent education, coupled with a distorted qualification rate.

If a Graduate has an MA in English I don't expect them to pronounce 'vee' 'wee'. I expect them to know that you turn on lights and open doors, not vice-versa.

Where do the competent english graduates end up? Certainly doesn't appear to be as English teachers. Begs the question - "are there ANY competent English graduates"?

What do you mean "English graduate"? What are you expecting from someone with an in depth knowledge of English Literature? Degrees - especially in humanities are seldom directly related to jobs.

And in Thailand not related, directly or indirectly, to ability.

[Noistar]

As long as the Thais prefer to save face ( for whatever reson they shouldloose ?) above income.. it will not improve.

Bye-the way: loosing from Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines all with historic ties to the English language..is understandable, but.. to loose from Indonesia..

Yeah, than we -westerners- should all have brilliant results if we have to do a similar Scandinavian-Viking test.

No, the test only proved that with a small population, you get easier a higher score...

Why?

A decent education system with a priority on any subject will get a high 'score' irrespective of population.

The problem here is the rationing of decent education, coupled with a distorted qualification rate.

If a Graduate has an MA in English I don't expect them to pronounce 'vee' 'wee'. I expect them to know that you turn on lights and open doors, not vice-versa.

Where do the competent english graduates end up? Certainly doesn't appear to be as English teachers. Begs the question - "are there ANY competent English graduates"?

What do you mean "English graduate"? What are you expecting from someone with an in depth knowledge of English Literature? Degrees - especially in humanities are seldom directly related to jobs.

Btw, I didn't mention 'literature'.

I don't know why you even mention it in a topic regarding communication skills.

What is the richness of Thai literature? In my ignorance I would assume it is nothing when compared to the English speaking world.

In a nation where reading is a very low priority.

Foreign language (note, I haven't said literature) skills appear to be all talk and no action. As your BBC video link shows, the allocation (although I doubt spending) of a high proportion of Thaksin's, sorry, Thailand's wealth is directed towards education. As the video confirms, this high spending does not equate to good education - I wonder why not.

If the government was serious about giving its population a decent education it would lead from the front. Headline money figures are meaningless. Throwing money at (or around more likely) education achieves nothing. Where are the qualified teachers? Are there any?

As I continue to say, lousy education, lousy ability but everybody joins the lemming lines to get a 'degree'. A degree which ensures they will never be able to work outside the open prison known as Thailand.

[Tchooptip]

Last week I bought a Samsung smart TV and a Home Theater.

For the home Theater the user manual was in Thai only

I went to the Samsung-Thailand internet site...100% in Thai language

I Googled the references number and dowload the User Manual in English from...

...the Samsung Malaysian site 100% in English

[wilcopops]

Why?

A decent education system with a priority on any subject will get a high 'score' irrespective of population.

The problem here is the rationing of decent education, coupled with a distorted qualification rate.

If a Graduate has an MA in English I don't expect them to pronounce 'vee' 'wee'. I expect them to know that you turn on lights and open doors, not vice-versa.

Where do the competent english graduates end up? Certainly doesn't appear to be as English teachers. Begs the question - "are there ANY competent English graduates"?

What do you mean "English graduate"? What are you expecting from someone with an in depth knowledge of English Literature? Degrees - especially in humanities are seldom directly related to jobs.

Btw, I didn't mention 'literature'.

I don't know why you even mention it in a topic regarding communication skills.

What is the richness of Thai literature? In my ignorance I would assume it is nothing when compared to the English speaking world.

In a nation where reading is a very low priority.

Foreign language (note, I haven't said literature) skills appear to be all talk and no action. As your BBC video link shows, the allocation (although I doubt spending) of a high proportion of Thaksin's, sorry, Thailand's wealth is directed towards education. As the video confirms, this high spending does not equate to good education - I wonder why not.

If the government was serious about giving its population a decent education it would lead from the front. Headline money figures are meaningless. Throwing money at (or around more likely) education achieves nothing. Where are the qualified teachers? Are there any?

As I continue to say, lousy education, lousy ability but everybody joins the lemming lines to get a 'degree'. A degree which ensures they will never be able to work outside the open prison known as Thailand.

Noi your arguments are all over the place.

"If a Graduate has an MA in English" - What sort of MA ? What do you expect asomeone to study in a postgrad degree? - in which country? Have you studied a foreign language?

[wilcopops]

Why?

A decent education system with a priority on any subject will get a high 'score' irrespective of population.

The problem here is the rationing of decent education, coupled with a distorted qualification rate.

If a Graduate has an MA in English I don't expect them to pronounce 'vee' 'wee'. I expect them to know that you turn on lights and open doors, not vice-versa.

Where do the competent english graduates end up? Certainly doesn't appear to be as English teachers. Begs the question - "are there ANY competent English graduates"?

What do you mean "English graduate"? What are you expecting from someone with an in depth knowledge of English Literature? Degrees - especially in humanities are seldom directly related to jobs.

Btw, I didn't mention 'literature'.

I don't know why you even mention it in a topic regarding communication skills.

What is the richness of Thai literature? In my ignorance I would assume it is nothing when compared to the English speaking world.

In a nation where reading is a very low priority.

Foreign language (note, I haven't said literature) skills appear to be all talk and no action. As your BBC video link shows, the allocation (although I doubt spending) of a high proportion of Thaksin's, sorry, Thailand's wealth is directed towards education. As the video confirms, this high spending does not equate to good education - I wonder why not.

If the government was serious about giving its population a decent education it would lead from the front. Headline money figures are meaningless. Throwing money at (or around more likely) education achieves nothing. Where are the qualified teachers? Are there any?

As I continue to say, lousy education, lousy ability but everybody joins the lemming lines to get a 'degree'. A degree which ensures they will never be able to work outside the open prison known as Thailand.

Noi your arguments are all over the place.

"If a Graduate has an MA in English" - What sort of MA ? What do you expect asomeone to study in a postgrad degree? - in which country? Have you studied a foreign language?

I expect anyone with a degree to show a competence in the subject the degree relates to.

New Thai English teacher, fresh out of Uni, reads a sentence for the class to repeat, and pronounces it wrong.

What benefit to the students? The English degree I confirmed he has, has obviously not given him an ability in English. So his students will duplicate his faults. Hardly a recipe for success in any subject.

My English 'O' level (going back a bit) provided me with a similar level of ability. An 'O' level, not a degree.

You keep sniping, so tell me, what competence should a graduate have in any subject?

...you don't seem to be differentiating between Bachelor and masters degree - are you aware of the difference?

What do you mean by "pronounce it wrong"?

I think you are talking out of your hat, there's far to much in your posts that indicates you aren't really up on the issues but are making judgments based on your own rather vague assumptions that are often incorrect in the fist place.

[wilcopops]

Noi - ..you don't seem to be differentiating between Bachelor and masters degree - are you aware of the difference?

What do you mean by "pronounce it wrong"?

I think you are talking out of your hat, there's far to much in your posts that indicates you aren't really up on the issues but are making judgments based on your own rather vague assumptions that are often incorrect in the fist place.

in fact you give me the impression that you don't know anything about studying English, teaching English or what sort of skills and qualifications might help in doing so

[Noistar]

Noi - ..you don't seem to be differentiating between Bachelor and masters degree - are you aware of the difference?

What do you mean by "pronounce it wrong"?

I think you are talking out of your hat, there's far to much in your posts that indicates you aren't really up on the issues but are making judgments based on your own rather vague assumptions that are often incorrect in the fist place.

in fact you give me the impression that you don't know anything about studying English, teaching English or what sort of skills and qualifications might help in doing so

Ok know-it-all I don't need to know how to teach, what the difference are between degrees or any of your other stuff.

I know when my language is being spoken correctly, written correctly and I've seen the example of my step-daughter being taught by your "I'm an expert in qualifications" teachers.

In my useless opinion I don't see how a graduate qualification in English is valid if you can't even speak the language.

So stop patronizing and explain to me how somebody who has no skill in English is sufficiently qualified to warrant a degree of any label.

[nong38]

After 24 pages of comment the Thai Educashun department concluded that they were on course to be top dog in the new ASEAN community or whatever it is called and as the top dog everyone will speak Thai or to put it in a Thai way, Thais will speak Thai and the assembled Farangs will speek English and Thailand wins the vote1 angainst 9

[wilcopops]

Noi - ..you don't seem to be differentiating between Bachelor and masters degree - are you aware of the difference?

What do you mean by "pronounce it wrong"?

I think you are talking out of your hat, there's far to much in your posts that indicates you aren't really up on the issues but are making judgments based on your own rather vague assumptions that are often incorrect in the fist place.

in fact you give me the impression that you don't know anything about studying English, teaching English or what sort of skills and qualifications might help in doing so

Ok know-it-all I don't need to know how to teach, what the difference are between degrees or any of your other stuff.

I know when my language is being spoken correctly, written correctly and I've seen the example of my step-daughter being taught by your "I'm an expert in qualifications" teachers.

In my useless opinion I don't see how a graduate qualification in English is valid if you can't even speak the language.

So stop patronizing and explain to me how somebody who has no skill in English is sufficiently qualified to warrant a degree of any label.

..and there you have it ... "I know when my language is being spoken correctly, written correctly and I've seen the example of my step-daughter being taught by your "I'm an expert in qualifications" teachers."

You are just throwing out random statements based on........well, nothing.... just some cockamamie concepts of what is and isn't English and absolutely no idea about teaching or how to assess language.

i'd love to explain but quite frankly I simply wouldn't know where to start until you educated yourself a little on the subject. - unlikely from someone who is of the opinion "I don't need to know how to teach, what the difference are between degrees or any of your other stuff."

PS - and a sprinkle of nonsense to boot - " taught by your "I'm an expert in qualifications" teachers." - what's this? An attempt at stereotyping?

Edited August 30, 2013 by wilcopops

[Noistar]

Noi - ..you don't seem to be differentiating between Bachelor and masters degree - are you aware of the difference?

What do you mean by "pronounce it wrong"?

I think you are talking out of your hat, there's far to much in your posts that indicates you aren't really up on the issues but are making judgments based on your own rather vague assumptions that are often incorrect in the fist place.

in fact you give me the impression that you don't know anything about studying English, teaching English or what sort of skills and qualifications might help in doing so

Ok know-it-all I don't need to know how to teach, what the difference are between degrees or any of your other stuff.

I know when my language is being spoken correctly, written correctly and I've seen the example of my step-daughter being taught by your "I'm an expert in qualifications" teachers.

In my useless opinion I don't see how a graduate qualification in English is valid if you can't even speak the language.

So stop patronizing and explain to me how somebody who has no skill in English is sufficiently qualified to warrant a degree of any label.

..and there you have it ... "I know when my language is being spoken correctly, written correctly and I've seen the example of my step-daughter being taught by your "I'm an expert in qualifications" teachers."

You are just throwing out random statements based on........well, nothing.... just some cockamamie concepts of what is and isn't English and absolutely no idea about teaching or how to assess language.

i'd love to explain but quite frankly I simply wouldn't know where to start until you educated yourself a little on the subject. - unlikely from someone who is of the opinion "I don't need to know how to teach, what the difference are between degrees or any of your other stuff."

PS - and a sprinkle of nonsense to boot - " taught by your "I'm an expert in qualifications" teachers." - what's this? An attempt at stereotyping?

I notice your unwillingness to answer the simple question - "why does a country with a poor education system, have such a high turn-out of graduates?". My suspicion is that the bar is lowered to ensure degrees are awarded.

Anyway, up to you. My question is simple and if its too difficult for you to state why it is the role of a degree to show no more ability than an O-level, then I'm sure the other posters can live without our exchange.

Good teaching requires knowledge and an ability to transfer that knowledge. You are showing an ability to make things complicated and not impart any knowledge. You're not a Thai teacher are you?

[wilcopops]

for those you don't understand why English is so important, watch the Swedish Arne Dahl TV crime series, it clearly shows the principle behind the need.

[Noistar]

I would have to conclude that the combination of Thai culture and poor teaching are the main reason for the results we see.

I can only ever use my step-daughter as a benchmark in the 3 schools she's attended since M3. She is currently re-doing M4 due to the abysmal teaching methods at Sacred Heart.

From what she has learnt from me, she is aware of correct pronunciation.

When she has her Thai English teacher saying 'repeat after me' and pronouncing things wrong (I'm talking about embedded 'n' sounds and trailing 's' sounds) it makes me despair for the other students who don't know better.

If a Maths teacher was un-challenged when they stated 1+1=3, they would be committing a similar crime.

Challenge the errant teachers in class, in front of a classroom full of students and things might start to change. I know of one Farang step-father who won't allow any negative influence over his child. Unlike Thais I care about her future and Thai culture takes a back seat if it gets in the way.

Sorry Hellodolly to criticise your beloved Thai culture

[wilcopops]

I would have to conclude that the combination of Thai culture and poor teaching are the main reason for the results we see.

I can only ever use my step-daughter as a benchmark in the 3 schools she's attended since M3. She is currently re-doing M4 due to the abysmal teaching methods at Sacred Heart.

From what she has learnt from me, she is aware of correct pronunciation.

When she has her Thai English teacher saying 'repeat after me' and pronouncing things wrong (I'm talking about embedded 'n' sounds and trailing 's' sounds) it makes me despair for the other students who don't know better.

If a Maths teacher was un-challenged when they stated 1+1=3, they would be committing a similar crime.

Challenge the errant teachers in class, in front of a classroom full of students and things might start to change. I know of one Farang step-father who won't allow any negative influence over his child. Unlike Thais I care about her future and Thai culture takes a back seat if it gets in the way.

Sorry Hellodolly to criticise your beloved Thai culture

You're doing it again! you are drawing conclusions from false premises....

what is "thai culture"? - you are using it as if it is some hard and fast thing we all agree on - people wheel this out as some kind of catch all when they really haven't got an argument.

THen you openly admit that out of about 20 million students you are basing your ideas on a sample of......ONE!!!

Your ideas on pronunciation are pointless - (is this another benchmark of yours?) and comparing teaching English to something as if it's a math answer and can be simply right or wrong just shows how little you have thought about the English language....

IN ENGLISH THERE ARE NO RULES ONLY CONVENTIONS.

Then you refer to HER as a benchmark - What "benchmark" this is a purely subject concept you've come up with one your own without any real reference.

I think you are still getting nape-of-the-neck ideas and just throwing them out there in the hope that some might stick.

Edited September 3, 2013 by wilcopops

[Noistar]

Here we go again.

A question. Did your children benefit from their education in main-stream Thai schools? Did you feel it better for them to have extra lessons, or perhaps attend more specialized international schools?

Apart from your obsession about degrees, I'd like to know where you're coming from.

Thai culture =

A system where one's betters, ie teachers, cannot be challenged.

A system where students are force-fed data.

A system where no attempt is made, or encouraged, to ensure that the 'knowledge' imparted during a lesson is understood.

All in all, a black-box culture where parents are not encouraged to participate in their children's education.

I'm not sure that a 1 hour (thai) history lesson a week, and dressing up in pahtoong on Friday is actually improving her future skills.

Have the knowledge, teaching abilities and the will to stretch your students and teachers might be thought to earn their keep. Relying on 'open your book and listen' will not help future generations.

Clearly my experience is unique to my step-daughter, although I have a sneaking suspicion that all the students in her school and the group of schools her school is part of, are taught the same. Come to think of it, any government school, but your wider knowledge of everything educational in Thailand would help to clarify this.

[Spare]

Thai standard of English is really very very good.

I was in Paragon last weekend and have no problem at all getting myself understood.

And my English isn't that good either.

[Noistar]

Thai standard of English is really very very good.

I was in Paragon last weekend and have no problem at all getting myself understood.

And my English isn't that good either.

There are certainly examples of this. As you say, people speaking English, who's first language is not English, can make themselves understood when talking to (some) Thais. I witnessed it myself, fully expecting to see blank expressions, but i found it interesting to observe its success and it goes to confirm that English is the international language which allows people to communicate.

[Noistar]

Having sat in on an English lesson yesterday, taken by the Thai teacher, I was able to witness what actually happens in class.

The teacher had clearly prepared for the lesson and started with a clear statement as to what the purpose of the lesson was.

The worksheets contained confusing examples. The usual ambiguous questions - the correct answer is the one determined by the teacher, which may not be the only one. Mind you, I've yet to see the answers to the unambiguous questions!

There were 2 questions out of 20, where I don't have a clue what the question is, let alone the answer.

How do the students pick the wheat from the chaff from the lesson?

The most worrying aspect was that the lesson relied heavily on speaking in Thai. Obviously the students are happy speaking/thinking in Thai, but its benefit to learning English eludes me.

If necessary, a 'prod' in Thai, when confirming understanding, would have greater benefit if it was used to elicit a response in English.

From what I saw, I would conclude that the ideal English teacher would be a native English speaker with some Thai speaking ability. No long discussions in Thai would be possible.

BTW, whoever made the point about movies needing an English soundtrack was right. When speaking to my step-daughter I used a few words inadvertently. I thought 'how the hell do I explain what they mean'. I needn't have worried, she knew the words and their meanings from watching movies.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Noistar

[Noistar]

Hooray, I have the answer. At least I have for a large group of government schools.

Because it's stream 1 in a Science program, the 4 hours of English a week consist of 1 hour Thai teacher, 3 hours Filipino teacher whose 'expertise' is science. The English lessons consist of an English Science integrated program, with about 1 hour a week of 'hello mark, how are you, hello Anna I am fine thanks'. The benefits of 21 students in a class are somewhat negated if you're not even taught it!

I wondered where the English-illiterate Doctors, both medical and other disciplines, came from. Now I know.

Streams 2-up learn Chinese in 'addition' to English, so they're no better off, especially with a class size of 48.

So if my step-daughter wants learn what I thought schools taught - Speaking, Understanding, Reading and Writing English, I'm going to have to do it for her.

Spoke to the Director and Head of English who kept dropping ASEAN into the conversation.

Can't see much emphasis on English here.

Not sure why they've got an English section at all.

[francescoassisi]

The above poster seems to be focusing solely on schools and limiting that to personal observations of a very limited nature.(the poster may wish to consider how and when he/she learned a second or third language).

If one looks at language education in any country one will see that schools only play a partial role and language training is carried out to a great extent after finishing school at tertiary institutions or in the workplace.

The foreigner employment laws in Thailand are very restrictive with respect to this as they don't seem to understand how to set up and run EL courses or companies. Work permits are job and location specific and companies are required to employ 4 Thai nationals to every one foreigner. It is also very difficult for a foreigner to set up a look language school as they are required to gave majority Thai ownership.

Edited September 19, 2013 by francescoassisi

[Noistar]

The above poster seems to be focusing solely on schools and limiting that to personal observations of a very limited nature.(the poster may wish to consider how and when he/she learned a second or third language).

If one looks at language education in any country one will see that schools only play a partial role and language training is carried out to a great extent after finishing school at tertiary institutions or in the workplace.

The foreigner employment laws in Thailand are very restrictive with respect to this as they don't seem to understand how to set up and run EL courses or companies. Work permits are job and location specific and companies are required to employ 4 Thai nationals to every one foreigner. It is also very difficult for a foreigner to set up a look language school as they are required to gave majority Thai ownership.

It's handy that I always state where I'm coming from in my posts. This ensures that my comments are read in context.

If family and friends point out issues relating to the inability of educated professionals to speak, let alone communicate in, English, it's reasonable to wonder why the system failed them. (Yes, IMO if there is an inability to use English after 12 years P1-M6 of English lessons - beyond 'good morning teacher..', then it is a failure)

I don't think it's unreasonable to show reasons when I come across them.

Students do not know English when they graduate, let alone when they complete schooling. I don't know what proportion, but if my experience is anything to go by, we're looking at at least 80%. I would love to be proved wrong.

IMO, English is necessary for professional specialists such as doctors. A lack of English hinders their ability to keep up with developments in their field. Bearing in mind an apparent failure of Thais to be at the international forefront of 'new ideas', and their insistence on translating everything themselves, a personal lack of English is only the start of any problems.

There may be no problems at all. Perhaps there are problems which don't get pursued locally. Perhaps there are problems which are kept within the confines of Thailand.

I don't know.

I didn't give any emphasis to a 2nd language during my education. Learning a 2nd language wasn't necessary. Any future employment, particularly of a specialist nature, did not rely on it. I am lucky that my native tongue is used internationally.

It's not my fault the Thais have such a unique language. It is the fault of Thailand if they don't want to expand their personal and national achievements by embracing 'the world'.

[wilcopops]

K. Noi - I see you are still firing shots willy-nilly.......you don't seem to realise you don't actually have an argument -

To make a criticism you need to understand the situation.

i think your attitude and reasoning to your own second language education is telling too as it shows you have given scant thought as to why anyone should learn a second language. You seem to prefer to cling to simplistic black and white "answers" as you don't seem like to dig any deeper than that.?

statement like

"Students do not know English when they graduate," - is patently nonsense

"If family and friends point out issues relating to the inability of educated professionals to speak, let alone communicate in, English, it's reasonable to wonder why the system failed them." maybe but it it not a basis for sweeping "judgements" - about the Thai education system as it relates to EL.

Al ot of what you say is simply repeating what others have said but you don't seem to understand why.

I think one of the main problems with any eductation system is that anyone and everyone thinks they are an experts - when in fact they don't have even the most tenuous grasp of the issues involved.

It is interesting to note that the same peoploe often take the compoete OPOSITE - stance when given advice about medical matters and seem prepared to accept the advice of any tom Dick or Harry so long as they have a white coat.

To any reasonable person an argument needs to be based not on a single viewpoint but on a rational analysis of as wide a range of views and theories as possible.

I really don't feel after reading some of the above posts that many of the opinions voiced here even qualify as an opinion - they are just random blurtings based on little more than gossip. consequently they can really do nothing to extend anyone's understanding of the situation.