Residence in Thailand ....

[Confuscious]

Last year I divorced from my wife and I got the full custody of our child.

I informed at Immigration about the legal requirements in order to have a Visa based on "Taking custody of a Thai national" and the answer was that the main requirement was that my child needed to have the address (residence) as me.

I informed also at the local Embassy about the legal requirements in order to be able to have 1 person in charge and thus benefit tax cuts and additional financial benefits and the answer was that my child needed to have the address (residence) as me.

Informed at several places how to let my child have the same address as me, and the answer was everywhere the same:

I needed to transfer my child from the Blue Housebook of the mother to the Blue Housebook of my landlord.

And here started my Crusade.

Apparently, the only way for Thai nationals to have a legal address is to be noted in the Blue Housebook where he/she resides.

I went with my wife to the Amphur where she was living and we asked to delete my child from the Blue Housebook of my wife and put my child in the Blue Housebook of my landlord.

The answer was that they could not do this.

The only way to delete a person from the Blue housebook was at the Ampur where that person would be transferred to.

The legal way was to go with the Blue Housebook of my landlord to the local Amphur where I live and they would handle the transfer of my child.

I went to my landlord to ask my landlord to go with me to the local Amphur in order to write my child in the same address as where I live.

The answer of my landlord was: "no way she would add my daughter, a stranger, to her Blue housebook."

I went to the Tourist Police and asked for their help.

They tried to help me in several ways, but they (and nobody) can force my landlord to add a person who is not a family member in her Blue Housebook.

So, now after more than 6 months, I am taking care of my child but I am still not able to move my child to the address where she really lives and I am losing a lot of benefits and the right to obtain a Visa based on taking care of a Thai national.

Big thanks to the whole "Blue Housebook" s..t.

[samran]

It isn't important that they be on the house book where you live. Plenty of people rent, and it isn't uncommon for landlords to refuse renters to go on their house book.

All you need to do is find a Thai friend who is willing to put you child on the housebook. Your child will automatically be transferred off your wifes book.

From what we do, my wife extends her visa on the basis of an address which is not the same as the residence of me (the Thai citizen), given we live at a different address to where I am registered. Extensions of visa work fine on this basis. They should be able to work like that for you.

Edited June 13, 2013 by samran

[ThaidDown]

I thought that the requirement for extension for looking after a dependant child was that the said child lived with applicant. Not that their registered address was the same.

Maybe one of the experts, familiar with the police orders, could confirm or correct.

Cannot answer for the Embassy requirement, but would have thought an official declaration to an Embassy official as to the childs residence might suffice legally.

For getting the child off the Mothers Tabien Baan agree with Samran.

Wife has rental places and does not normally let renters put their names on her book. However she does have a friend of the daughter registered even though they do not actually live there.

[Jasun]

Radical suggestion, but you could buy a little studio as an investment (sub 1m Baht) and register her in your own blue book.

[chrisinth]

@ OP.

As far as I am aware, the blue house-book should not be an issue, unless you have been told something different, the main concern being that the child is living with you.

As an example, both the kids, having grown up now, are living in separate rented homes but both their names are in the original house-book. We are currently renting and my wife still remains on the original house-book.

The book is mainly for registration purposes.

[Confuscious]

Reply to all:

1. The requirement that the child needs to have the same address as me comes from Immigration.

It should be common knowledge to everybody living in Thailand that every official can (and mostly have) their own interpretation of the laws.

Sure, I can move to another City or province where the rules (read: Interpretation) of Immigration officials are different.

But If I need to move every time I encounter a situation with an Official I can as well hire a Caravan or a Mobilhome.

2. The requirements from the Embassy are based on requirements from several Offices in my country.

Every Office in my country ONLY accepts a copy of the ID-Card as proof of residence.

Apart from these problems with the Blue Housebook, a lot of other problems are looming:

- My child can not get a 30 Baht medical card from the city where she lives as her ID-Card shows that she is living in another city miles away.

- My child can not get an Id-Card from the city where she lives as according to the Blue Housebook she is living in another city.

- Etc.

[samran]

Reply to all:

1. The requirement that the child needs to have the same address as me comes from Immigration.

It should be common knowledge to everybody living in Thailand that every official can (and mostly have) their own interpretation of the laws.

Sure, I can move to another City or province where the rules (read: Interpretation) of Immigration officials are different.

But If I need to move every time I encounter a situation with an Official I can as well hire a Caravan or a Mobilhome.

2. The requirements from the Embassy are based on requirements from several Offices in my country.

Every Office in my country ONLY accepts a copy of the ID-Card as proof of residence.

Apart from these problems with the Blue Housebook, a lot of other problems are looming:

- My child can not get a 30 Baht medical card from the city where she lives as her ID-Card shows that she is living in another city miles away.

- My child can not get an Id-Card from the city where she lives as according to the Blue Housebook she is living in another city.

- Etc.

As a Thai ID card holder who sponsors my wife's visa, I say you are worring a little too much.

As said, we've never had any problems showing that our place of residences is different to the one on my ID card. We rent as well, and I am registered at a relatives house. It is not an unusual thing. You will likely have to show a few things, including photo's of you and your daughter at, in and out the front of your actual residence, plus draw a map to it, should immigration want to visit you. Bring your rental lease, electricity bills etc. This proves you live together, not some house registration.

I promise you, doing the honest thing in this case won't penalise you. It is not unusual.

Furthermore, getting your child a house registration at a friends house is not unusual. If you can get a friend who lives near you, then the 30 baht health care etc will still be available to you.

Edited June 13, 2013 by samran

[Confuscious]

Reply to all:

1. The requirement that the child needs to have the same address as me comes from Immigration.

It should be common knowledge to everybody living in Thailand that every official can (and mostly have) their own interpretation of the laws.

Sure, I can move to another City or province where the rules (read: Interpretation) of Immigration officials are different.

But If I need to move every time I encounter a situation with an Official I can as well hire a Caravan or a Mobilhome.

2. The requirements from the Embassy are based on requirements from several Offices in my country.

Every Office in my country ONLY accepts a copy of the ID-Card as proof of residence.

Apart from these problems with the Blue Housebook, a lot of other problems are looming:

- My child can not get a 30 Baht medical card from the city where she lives as her ID-Card shows that she is living in another city miles away.

- My child can not get an Id-Card from the city where she lives as according to the Blue Housebook she is living in another city.

- Etc.

As a Thai ID card holder who sponsors my wife's visa, I say you are worring a little too much.

As said, we've never had any problems showing that our place of residences is different to the one on my ID card. We rent as well, and I am registered at a relatives house. It is not an unusual thing. You will likely have to show a few things, including photo's of you and your daughter at, in and out the front of your actual residence, plus draw a map to it, should immigration want to visit you. Bring your rental lease, electricity bills etc. This proves you live together, not some house registration.

I promise you, doing the honest thing in this case won't penalise you. It is not unusual.

Furthermore, getting your child a house registration at a friends house is not unusual. If you can get a friend who lives near you, then the 30 baht health care etc will still be available to you.

This would maybe work for the Thai formalities.

Although, I still doubt that the Immigration officer would change his mind.

But more important are the formalities of my country.

After all, I am talking here about the sum of about 500 Euro benefits per month.

The only way to have 500 Euro/month or not have 500 Euro/month is an Id-Card of my child with the same address as me.

If the addresses match I get 500 Euro/month.

If the addresses doesn't match I lose 500 Euro/month.

A different address on the ID-Card is NOT ACCEPTED in my country.

[samran]

Reply to all:

1. The requirement that the child needs to have the same address as me comes from Immigration.

It should be common knowledge to everybody living in Thailand that every official can (and mostly have) their own interpretation of the laws.

Sure, I can move to another City or province where the rules (read: Interpretation) of Immigration officials are different.

But If I need to move every time I encounter a situation with an Official I can as well hire a Caravan or a Mobilhome.

2. The requirements from the Embassy are based on requirements from several Offices in my country.

Every Office in my country ONLY accepts a copy of the ID-Card as proof of residence.

Apart from these problems with the Blue Housebook, a lot of other problems are looming:

- My child can not get a 30 Baht medical card from the city where she lives as her ID-Card shows that she is living in another city miles away.

- My child can not get an Id-Card from the city where she lives as according to the Blue Housebook she is living in another city.

- Etc.

As a Thai ID card holder who sponsors my wife's visa, I say you are worring a little too much.

As said, we've never had any problems showing that our place of residences is different to the one on my ID card. We rent as well, and I am registered at a relatives house. It is not an unusual thing. You will likely have to show a few things, including photo's of you and your daughter at, in and out the front of your actual residence, plus draw a map to it, should immigration want to visit you. Bring your rental lease, electricity bills etc. This proves you live together, not some house registration.

I promise you, doing the honest thing in this case won't penalise you. It is not unusual.

Furthermore, getting your child a house registration at a friends house is not unusual. If you can get a friend who lives near you, then the 30 baht health care etc will still be available to you.

This would maybe work for the Thai formalities.

Although, I still doubt that the Immigration officer would change his mind.

But more important are the formalities of my country.

After all, I am talking here about the sum of about 500 Euro benefits per month.

The only way to have 500 Euro/month or not have 500 Euro/month is an Id-Card of my child with the same address as me.

If the addresses match I get 500 Euro/month.

If the addresses doesn't match I lose 500 Euro/month.

A different address on the ID-Card is NOT ACCEPTED in my country.

From the Thai side, I suspect you are getting a bit mixed up with residential address (ie where you really live) and house registration (where most people don't actually live!). Sure you have to live together, but photo's of your residential address with you and your daughter in them, your court order etc etc, will be good evidence you do live together.

Can't help with your EU side of things, but I suggest that if you can get your daughter on a friends tabien baan, then your friend will be able to organise for your entry onto the yellow tabieen baan for the same address, which is the offical registry for foriegn natinoals living in Thailand. Again, it doesn't have to be where you really live (my wife is also registered seperately from where we live), but that will be sufficient evidence you'd hope for your home country that you are 'registered' at the same address?

[chuckd]

I had a similar incident as you discuss with my home country government.

When we divorced in Thailand, I made certain the divorce decree signed by both my wife and myself and approved by the Amphur specifically stated I had 100% custody of the child.

I had this document translated to English, had the copy certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and it was accepted as proof we were living together by my government.

IF custody is discussed in your decree, ask your embassy if a certified translation of this will suffice.

[Cluey]

As a fellow single parent I commend you for your integrity and courage in taking responsibility for your spawn, many foreign visitors here don't do as well.

I think your problem is coming from the fact that you think rules and regulations should make sense from a universally logical point of view. These are two completely different countries bureaucracies and regulations and you need to satisfy both of them.

Most important thing to understand about dealing with bureaucrats anywhere is that one the one hand, they don't care about you as a person, they are focused on their paperwork rules, and on the other hand, they aren't trying to create problems for you personally.

Like most of us, they just want an easy life, so to make your own life easy, figure out what it is that a given office needs and how to provide it to them with a minimum of effort and stress on your part.

In this case the "house registration" concept has nothing to do with where you are actually living, Thai culture knows and accepts this but the EU one probably won't.

Find out what else will satisfy the EU bureaucrats. I imagine their main concern is to establish that you are actively raising and caring for your daughter, independent of the legal status of who has custody.

Depending on how old your daughter is, they may accept a document from her school as to her current address, and I'm sure you can show a lease and utility bills that show the same address. Maybe a library membership - we belong to the Hays Nielson in Bangkok or hospital records will do. Find out what they will accept and then provide it to them, don't try to get them to understand your unique situation or try to get them to adapt to reality, they just want to operate within the rules as they already exist.

Or just go ahead and put yourself and your daughter into the same house book, and present that to the EU authorities as if that's the place where you're living.

Don't feel that this is somehow "dishonest", just do what you need to do to satisfy their requirements and keep looking at it from a purely practical point of view, not an abstract idealistic one, that's just banging your head against the wall.