getting my daughter out of LOS ,whats the procedure?

[NancyL]

As mentioned, child trafficing is a big issue, so it's good to have documents in order to show sole custody of the child. The marriage license and wife's death certificate perhaps should be translated into English, because the problems are likely to occur upon entry into the U.K. They may want to make sure that this isn't an international child custody-dispute kidnapping.

It will help much, of course, if the daughter is old enough to speak for herself and if father and daughter clearly act like they've had that relationship for a long time.

[jcb2001]

If you as a British national are taking a Thai child out of the country, you may be asked to prove that you either have sole custody of the child or suitable permission from the mother. I'm surprised the British embassy couldn't provide more information about this, because the problems may occur when you try to bring the child into the U.K.

I am not surprised at all. The British Embassy has localised nearly all the consular positions now and it's very hard to talk to anyone who has a clue or gives a dam_n about British citizens these days. Some years ago they had a mix of staff from the UK and locally employed look krueng and other Thais who spoke English very well and obviously understood the British culture and legal environment. Nowadays a visit to the consular section in Bangkok feels more like a visit to Thai Immigration or the Labour Ministry. As HMG's cost cutting measures bite ever harder, front office staff now speak heavily accented English and obviously have no clue about British culture or law. Any basic question results in an aggressive Thai Chinese bitch storming out of the back office to tell you that whatever you wanted to do can't be done, without bothering to listen or consider the case, and please leave now. I have sometimes only managed to get documents I needed by going back a second time and mercifully getting my case put to one of the UK vice-consuls who are usually able to understand the issues in an instant, if you have the chance to talk to them.

So don't expect any insightful or helpful advice. If your request is not on the list of things they can charge a fat fee for a few minutes work, get on your bike. If it's about visas to the UK, you will be told to ask VFS, the embassy's outsourced service and all email enquiries to the consulate are automatically forwared to VFS, who actually seem to have better informed and more polite Thai staff than the consulate.

This is grossly unfair. The British consul office in Chiang Mai could not be more helpfull. With an attitude like yours I am surprised anyone would even sell you a cup of coffee.

. I am not surprised at all. Your good experience in Chiang Mai is the exception. Most embassies could give a rat's ass about your problems these days. They are under staffed, overworked, and live in a hell hole place and just want to go home and get a stiff drink and forget about all the problems they heard during their workday. So they take it out on you if your paperwork is incomplete or in error. Sometimes it is just worth having a good lawyer do it.

[BahBahBoBo]

Just curious, as I don't think it was indicated... Is the intention of this trip a short visit or for the 'child' to live in UK, and what is her age?

To be quite honest, if I had a choice of raising a young lady in thailand or UK/Europe I would pick Thailand hands down... for her social and personal developement.

Education levels, JOB opportunities all that crap, where has it REALLY gotten western society?

In the end we live and die and are here a short while.

Its the person we become and our inner happiness and contentment that REALLY matter.

So if this is about a 'long term' change of developemental environment, I would give it some really serious thought and put aside materialistic goals/opportunities and also personal needs or wants.

If you love someone then its whats best for their heart and soul that should over-ride all else.

Just a thought.

[bkk_mike]

I would recommend getting the Thai passport because, with marriage certificate, child's birth certificate and wife's death certificate, you should be able to pick one up fairly quickly here. (assuming the child was born in Thailand - if born abroad, you have to apply at the Thai Embassy in the country where the child was born for the first one,)

You don't actually need to do this though. It just makes things simpler in the long run for the child to return to Thailand at a later date.

If you do get the Thai passport, make absolutely certain the name is spelt the same way as the UK passport.

Whether you get a Thai passport or don't, when flying out, carry the Birth Certificate and wife's death certificate with you. The Birth Certificate will explain the lack of an entry stamp (if leaving on the UK passport), and if they ask for a letter from the mother giving permission for the child to travel, show the death certificate (and birth certificate if leaving on a Thai passport).

They've only once asked me in 10 years of flying back and forth when I was travelling with one of the kids and without my wife for any sort of permission to travel, so if you get the Thai passport, you could simply breeze through. If you exit on the UK passport, they will ask about the lack of entry stamp, but it will be fine either way.

The UK requires anyone with a British passport to use it when entering the UK. (The US works the same way). Immigration in the UK is perfectly used to seeing dual nationals without stamps in their passports, and even non-dual nationals as a lot of countries don't stamp passports all the time. (i.e. travelling around the EU)..

As a general rule, show the airline both passports (they're checking you have permission to enter the country you're flying to...), but only show the one you're using to exit/enter the country to immigration. With passports for both countries, you don't need visas.

[HaleySabai]

Have passport will travel......need two for duel..... mid-air switch.....simple as that.

[p_brownstone]

Does the child have a Thai mother ?

If so obtain a Thai passport for her.

Then leave Thailand using the Thai passport. Enter the UK with with the UK passport.

Re enter Thailand with the Thai passport .

airline will not allow you to board with a thai passport with no visa

Totally incorrect.

If the Passenger has two passports - in this case Thai and British - all she has to do is show the British Passport at Airline Checkin to prove that she does not need a Visa to enter UK.

Never a problem - happens dozens of times a day.

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

Does the child have a Thai mother ?

If so obtain a Thai passport for her.

Then leave Thailand using the Thai passport. Enter the UK with with the UK passport.

Re enter Thailand with the Thai passport .

Sorry, but it`s not as easy as that.

If she enters the UK with a British passport, they will want to know where she has come from and why there is no stamp in the passport to show that she has been staying and of her leaving Thailand. And and same applies if your daughter arrives back in Thailand using her Thai passport. Although it is legal to hold both British and Thai passports, using one passport to leave a country and another passport to arrive in another country, may cause you big problems.

A friend tried this on a year ago, was detained and questioned for several hours at Heathrow airport, eventually missing her plane.

If you decide to use your daughter`s British passport, then you may have to register her with Immigration, meaning having a visa stamp in her passport the same as any other expat living in Thailand. In that case your daughter would have no problems leaving Thailand, entering the UK and returning to Thailand on her British passport. All you would need is a re-entry visa from Immigration in her passport.

Or you could obtain a visa to enter Britain on her Thai passport and to use the same Thai passport to leave Britain and return into Thailand.

These are really the only 2 options you have. Try any other way, you do so at your own risk and discretion.

It really is "as easy as that"; happens dozens - possibly hundreds - of times a day even in Thailand.

Immigration in any Country is not concerned with where you have been or where you are coming from, absolutely NOTHING to do with them - all they are charged with is to ensure that you have the right to enter THEIR Country and have the right to stay there within the regulations of their Immigration Policy.

If you have a valid Passport issued by that Country you cannot be denied entry unless you have some major Criminal case outstanding in their jurisdiction - and of course in that case you would be invited in to the nearest correctional facility, not simply denied entry.

Patrick

[h5kaf]

He said no such thing - that is why we asked. As he now says mother was Thai he should obtain Thai passport for exit/entry to Thailand and just use the UK passport for proof of not needing visa at exit and entry/exit of UK. Suspect she will be wanting to travel and perhaps live in both locations during her life and that is the best plan.

Should he use the child's Thai passport to exit the country will he need to obtain a UK visa for the Thai passport?

He said no such thing - that is why we asked. As he now says mother was Thai he should obtain Thai passport for exit/entry to Thailand and just use the UK passport for proof of not needing visa at exit and entry/exit of UK. Suspect she will be wanting to travel and perhaps live in both locations during her life and that is the best plan.

Should he use the child's Thai passport to exit the country will he need to obtain a UK visa for the Thai passport?

This is not correct. Lopburi is completely correct and his advice is sound.

I have been through this exact scenario. I got my daughter a Thai passport in Bangkok; a painless exercise very efficient and took about 45 minutes. Will need birth certificate. The UK embassy issued my daughter with a UK birth certificate and a UK passport. When leaving Thailand I needed a letter from her mother (in Thai) stating that I had her permission to take the child out of the country. When I was eventually divorced I had the divorce paper to show that I had sole custody of the child. (You would need the death certificate). On entering the UK on her UK passport there was no problem at all when she was a baby, but at about 5 years old she was asked by the immigration person who I was. Her answer "my daddy" was followed by a request for my name, which she also gave. This has even happened again recently at age 10.

There really is no problem here. So long as all is above board both sets of immigration officials are trying to make sure that the child is not being used illegally in any way - child protection which I approve. With all the right papers and the correct explanations all will be OK if a little slow at first.

[Andre0720]

Some 3 year ago, my neighbour left Thailand with his two thai children, about 3 and 5 years old.

His wife was thai, a compulsive gambler, and he decided it was enough.

He is Swiss, took the children to Phuket airport, with I do not know what in terms of documentation for the children, probably birth certificates from Thailand, but certainly not a letter of of agreement from his wife.

His wife was asking me for some help, but as she she has no money, she could not get legal advice. I do not think she ever saw her children again.

Perhaps Phuket immigration got sloppy on that day....

[Mario2008]

Some 3 year ago, my neighbour left Thailand with his two thai children, about 3 and 5 years old.

His wife was thai, a compulsive gambler, and he decided it was enough.

He is Swiss, took the children to Phuket airport, with I do not know what in terms of documentation for the children, probably birth certificates from Thailand, but certainly not a letter of of agreement from his wife.

His wife was asking me for some help, but as she she has no money, she could not get legal advice. I do not think she ever saw her children again.

Perhaps Phuket immigration got sloppy on that day....

Human trafficking is a hot item currently. Since about two year they can check very strictly, but most times only if the child has a different last name than the person (s)he is traveling with.

[giggles]

on a side note a sister in the family who had a boy by a US citizen and was remarried to a bloke from north Wales took her boy thru Thai immigration on her UK passport when he was in his early teens and no probs and AFAIK had no passport at all ,and then she took off with a Frenchman ditching the Welshman and took her boy to France also on her passport and didnt appear to have any problems.maybe its easier for the mum to do this as the American father was a nutjob who moved to the P.I and had lost all contact with him.

still no reply from Thai immigration .....zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[7by7]

The procedure for dual nationals is very simple, and I cannot understand why so many poster seem to find it a difficult concept to grasp.

Thailand to UK:

• Show British passport to airline at check in so they know she will be allowed into the UK.
• Show Thai passport to Thai immigration show they know she is a Thai national and has not overstayed.
• On arrival in the UK show British passport to UK immigration so they know she is a British national and does not need a visa.

UK to Thailand:

• Show Thai passport to airline at check in so they know she will be allowed into Thailand.
• The UK does not routinely check passports on exit, but if asked by UK immigration show British passport so they know she is a British national and has not overstayed.
• On arrival in Thailand show Thai passport to Thai immigration so they know she is a Thai national and does not need a visa.

Simple; my wife and daughter have done this many times without ever encountering any difficulty.

If travelling to other countries, use whichever passport is the easiest; for example if travelling in Europe use her British passport to enter and leave as that way she wont need a visa.

You should also carry her birth certificate and your wife's death certificate so, if required, you can show that you are her father and that her mother is dead so you are responsible for her.

[ripstanley]

Is the Thai family happy for you to take your child to the UK. If they are get them to ring the nearest passport office. They then ask this office what documentation you need for your child to obtain a Thai passport.

[giggles]

yep the thai family is in a agreement so no problems there ..

[ripstanley]

yep the thai family is in a agreement so no problems there ..

Take my advice and get them to inquire. My stepdaughter's father could not be contacted. My wife rang the passport office in and they informed her what documents were required. So give them a ring

[tigergrl]

in no way expert on this but surely a holder of a UK passport is allowed entry in the UK regardless

of visa stamps. obviously for some people there is a first time entering the country when they are

children of UK nationals born outside of the UK. if they issued her a passport she is legally entitled

to enter the UK.. all it should take is having all the correct paperwork available to show and a quick

explanation at the border. also, it is probably best as her Father that you say you wish her to live

with you.

the one thing that may seem a bit tetchy with UK immigration is whether or not you can prove

financial ability to care for the child. otherwise don't see how there can be a problem but then

it is the UK you're talking about. good luck.

edited for typo

Edited June 15, 2013 by tigergrl

[7by7]

She is a British citizen and has a British passport. So she has the right to enter and live in the UK without any visa or having to meet any immigration requirements, financial or whatever.

What entry/exit stamps or other county's visas she may or may not have in her British passport are irrelevant; UK immigration wont even bother to look to see if there are any.

Edited June 15, 2013 by 7by7

[giggles]

thanks for the replies here ,very usefull , and i get a picture of what to do .but i still have to book the seats and then theres the immigration to overcome so some trepidation as its a 1st time .

i fear some kind of hitch in BKK that will throw a spanner in the works if some official decides to be awkward so thats why i wanted a reply from the thais immigration to be sure .

[KamnanT]

Bettlejuice - I travel very regularly between Thai and my western passport, and often enough to the UK. While I don't dispute your story, doing the passport swap as many have described is the way to do it. No need for British visa's in Thai passports, etc. A british passport is the ulitmate right of entry into the UK and trumps a visa any day.

Well, I'll dispute the part in Beetlejuice's story about the friend being detained for hours at Heathrow and missing her flight. There is no outbound immigration control in the UK, so who exactly "detained" this friend when she showed the "wrong" passport? Airline check-in staff? Random passers-by? Over-eager Boots security staff?

I have 3 passports and almost always find myself in the situation where I'm departing a country on one passport and entering my destination on another. The only places where this has been an issue:

1. Land crossings from Thailand into neighboring countries - no choice but to use the same passport here.

2. Landing in Vientiane on a flight from Bangkok. Laos Immigration couldn't find a Thai exit stamp in my passport and asked for the passport I had used to depart Thailand. I fibbed and said I had only transited at Suvaranabhumi and hadn't entered Thailand.

3. Ferry crossings from Hong Kong to Macau. Macau Immigration has insisted that I enter Macau on the same passport that I used to exit Hong Kong, but couldn't explain why this was required. Interestingly, no problem in the reverse direction.

Follow the general rule that you should leave any country using the same passport that you used to enter it and you'll rarely have an issue. The more observant immigration officers might ask about the absence of an exit stamp from your point of origin but most won't even notice. In the OP's case, having his daughter leave Thailand on her Thai passport and enter the UK on her British passport is the way to go - indeed, the UK requires its citizens to use their UK passports to enter and leave the UK.

Edited June 16, 2013 by KamnanT

[CTO]

This is actually illegal

A UK citizen can't apply nor obtain a visa for entry to UK using another countries passport.

Had a mate who made this mistake with his kid, same thing happened to me with taking my kid to Australia. Both time they pointed out the child as a UK national in his case, Australian in mine and they can't apply for visa's under their Thai passports but MUST enter on the home countries passport.

I suspect all countries have similar laws.

Beetlejuice - but what you've recommended is basically using a getting a Thai visa in a British passport to enter Thailand and using a Thai passport with a UK visa to enter the UK. A bit counter intuitive.

[dontejo]

That how we did it with our son. Mother Thai, Father Dutch

Does the child have a Thai mother ?

If so obtain a Thai passport for her.

Then leave Thailand using the Thai passport. Enter the UK with with the UK passport.

Re enter Thailand with the Thai passport .

[p_brownstone]

Slightly "off topic" but somewhat related perhaps.

I have a British friend who, many years ago, obtained Thai Nationality - so he is now a Dual British / Thai National, with both Passports.

At the time he acquired Thai nationality it was a requirement that one must choose a Thai First name and a Thai Family name - so the name in his Thai Passport is completely different to that in his British Passport.

A few years ago - and I must admit I'm not exactly sure why he would do this - he obtained a 10 Year U.S. Visa in his Thai Passport and used this to enter the U.S. on at least one occasion.

On a subsequent visit to the U.S., with no malice aforethought - he simply forgot about the Visa in his Thai Passport - and attempted to enter using his British Passport under the "Visa Waiver" Programme ---- however the U.S. Border Control Computers immediately matched up his British Passport / name etc. with the fact that he had a still valid U.S. Visa under his Thai Passport / name and he was subjected to a couple of hours of interrogation.

Patrick

[jrtmedic]

"At the time he acquired Thai nationality it was a requirement that one must choose a Thai First name and a Thai Family name - so the name in his Thai Passport is completely different to that in his British Passport."

So how , exactly, did the US computers make the link ?

Something does not seem quite right here .

[Sophon]

"At the time he acquired Thai nationality it was a requirement that one must choose a Thai First name and a Thai Family name - so the name in his Thai Passport is completely different to that in his British Passport."

So how , exactly, did the US computers make the link ?

Something does not seem quite right here .

Have you seen those cameras at the immigration counters? They are there for a reason.

Sophon

[jrtmedic]

No cameras in the UK and the last time I visited the US I was not (knowingly) photographed.

But matching a single picture out of a choice of millions within a few seconds seems a bit improbable given the need to keep the queue moving.