Wagyu cattle

[Orothinius]

To david,

I agree with you that will need a solide plan but im not at that stage yet, as for the selling point, a niche product like Wagyu is favored all over the world, and the price/market is all about the quality of the marbeling. If the marbeling is of a very high quality the market might consist of high class restaurants, if its less it would be better for normal restaurants or market sales. If its crap id stop

First il need to visite the exsisting farms, and maybe a trip to Japan before i decide to actually do it.

to Itchybum,

I think so to, the landsize wont be to much of a problem tho around my area land is still cheap, and these cows wont be running around that much mostly relaxing and getting a thai massage, without happy end tho..

As for the food, the original Kobe get fed on apples, so id need to find a Thai fruit with the same suger/starch composition and might need to grow it myself to keep cost down, i was thinking of banana, higher sugar but easy and cheaply available/growable.

Also there daily beer brand isnt decided on!

to Slapout,

That is verry true, but i think with a product like Wagyu when its all about quality and small farms do great in japan to i would not need a verry large farm, also im only 26 retirment is a bit early for me at this stage and i got various projects thats im looking into, Wagyu just always seemd like a good thing to do, but impossible where i come from because of the extremely high cost.

Thank u all for your imput !

[zeichen]

Cattle farming is different as they graze and often require at least 1 rai per head. This style of ranching is different as they are not active and hand fed. The are more confined so that the muscles are not toughened. There is a higher operating cost with this kind of operation but as stated before if he is able to get a high grade of beef, there will always be a market for it. However, the issue is investing in it getting it started and not getting a high quality. It is a much higher gamble than other farming operations. It is risky but for a younger person who can bounce back and earn more later if it goes belly up, I think that it will be a nice challenge.

However, what gets me is when someone who has never been on a farm in their life all of a sudden starts one. I don't think that being a farmer and running a farming business is that difficult, it does require patience, research, a certain skill set, but to be a successful business is a different story. There are some very wealthy and very poor farmers. I don't think anyone plans on being the latter.

I would start small with only a few head to see if you can even produce medium quality within 2 or 3 years. If not then stop. Don't invest more than you are willing to lose. I would take a gamble though. If you don't already have land, I wouldn't actually start buying land then for an risky operation. Seems like another added expense. Most people get into farming because they already have the land. Adding 500k-1million baht on to your initial start up costs for a small piece of land really seems like a bad investment. Unless you also have other things to work on that piece of land.

But as David said, at least go to some of the high end steak houses and japanese places. Talk to their chef's or owners about where they get their beef and if they even need extra suppliers. You don't want to compete with a business that is already in place that may or may not burn your small farm down for poaching their customers.

[Orothinius]

Thank u Zeichen for your reaction, if i decide to do this i would start small and keep my investment down, the prices of land around here are around 100k a rai.

Ive been on farms alot just never owned one, i have alot to learn and willing to do so.

Also i have a brother inlaw who is currently in a 6 year studie to become a japanese chef, he will be ready in about 2 years and open up shop in Buriram.

[David48]

One of also a major issue that I have read is the lack of quality meat butchers.

I have no 1^st hand knowledge ... but it's been discussed before.

[Orothinius]

I have tought about this problem to, i know one thai man working in a slaughter station, and talked to him about it, he is willing to ""learn "" how to cut the cow in a different way as maximizing the prime cuts, if it can be done i dont know..

But i have heard of farang butchers in Thailand so must be an option somehow..

[kickstart]

As someone who has worked with cattle over here for some time I can see a problem ,you have got your cattle ,one comes one heat,is they a AI man near by,you have a sick cow is there a vet.

My area is a big dairy area with a fair number of vets,AI men, our local DLD office is only 7KM from me,the local farmers are always complaning of the bad service. vets miss diagnosising ,AI men not showing up.

You have got all the land, buildings, budgets ,feed,all sorted only to have problems with the above.

I hope I am wrong,and all this is a long way off yet,but it is the way I think, and it is something I would look at.

All the best and good luck

KS

[itchybum]

If OP is prepared to go to other countries to view this and that, he can easily go to another country and do an AI course himself.

He could also do an intensive animal husbandry course to help with all minor and some major health issues himself, so not relying on others then 100% but only for emergencies and major problems.

That is what I would be doing for sure and having already done a lot of it in younger days, a refresher and updated course would be in order.

[Orothinius]

Thanks kickstart for that tip, I do believe there are several vets around my area because we have alot of pig farmers and chicken farmers, not sure about cows tho will have to do some more research into this, thanks for the tip.

Itchibum, i agree with u that im going to have to take some courses and am planning to do so , thanks.

[RedBullHorn]

Just curious, are the local AI men up to the job ? I mean the standard of this fabulous creature would require a ISO Standard ( I Say So ) AI men..... No ?

[zeichen]

If you have to pay 100k baht per rai for farm land, that is very expensive. Personally, I wouldn't spend more than 50k per rai with chanote and if you have someone that you fully trust you could get the lesser title (forget the name nor por sam?) for about 10k per rai but cannot develop it for anything but farming.

Really you would need a minimum of 10k rai, so 1 million baht is a pretty heavy start up cost and would add a lot to start actually making profit on this venture.

I am actually surprised that your wife doesn't already have some land already that you can use. Most people that I have met that are interested in farming do it also because they have access to the land already.

Like I said before if you have other plans for the land as well, then would be an investment. But remember that land doesn't always appreciate. Lately I have seen extreme inflation on land value, which may or may not last. Ireland, US, Greece all of these countries have had a crash with land recently, Thailand is not immune to it either. Just be cautious investing in land as well as the other things you need to invest in.

[Orothinius]

I believe 100k per rai is pretty cheap around where i live, i wana get into farming because it interests me and from what ive seen over the years is one of the only businesses that ""can"" work in isaan..

It isnt my only project but the 1 im most researching at the moment.

My wife and her family dont own land that would be suitable for farming cattle or farming in general.

I wana buy a nice plot of land for myself anyways because i wana try and make a self sustaining house/land with fruit/vegetable/livestock/fish etc

Thanks for the responds

[David48]

I've read back through your posts and I've not read that you have acknowledged this fact.

You know that YOU can not own land in Thailand.

If you pay for the land it is bought in your wife's name, you have zero ownership.

Before you say ... 'That's OK' we are married and in Love, I trust her 100%' ... it's a thought that has been the downfall of many in Thailand.

I know I sound negative ... but I'm just trying to point out the downfalls that might face you.

.

[Orothinius]

You are 100% right, normaly a farang cant buy land, but in a Thai limited co, u can there is many ingenieus ways that farang can own things in Thailand, i would suggest talking to your embassy and finding out.

Thanks for the heads up tho

[zeichen]

You are right Orothinius about ways around it. But perhaps you should check further because farming isn't a business that foreigners are allowed to work in. So unless you are lying on your business license, you will not get the proper paperwork if you go that route of registering it as a limited co.

Really need to examine further for farm land. Issaan 100k a rai seems very high Unless it is right on a water source. I cannot imagine adding farm land into the start up costs of a small operation.

Just a warning about recouping your costs in the long run.

[zeichen]

Don't want you to think that all the posters are trying to discourage you, I think that we all want you to succeed. Just most of us that have been here for a decade or more hear 1 success story for every 100 bitter guy leaving. Just do what you are doing and take it slow and make your plan.

good luck whatever happens and keep us updated. Do what Ray did with mushrooming and keep a journal. Would be pretty nice to see not only your success but the obstacles and how you over come them.

[itchybum]

Remember farmland purchase, as long as you do not pay over the market rates that a local would pay, is not an expense, it is loosely an investment as you can always sell it later if shit hits fan and get money back as long as not over paid.

So the doom and gloom here about buying land as an expense is not all it is cracked up to be.

Mind you if the missus runs of with the buffalo massager then you might be in trouble.

[kickstart]

Just curious, are the local AI men up to the job ? I mean the standard of this fabulous creature would require a ISO Standard ( I Say So ) AI men..... No ?

Answer is no, to a Thai AI man a cow is a cow,and they probable do not know what wagyu cattle are anyway. I have been doing AI for some time, and what I have seen, the Thai techique is a lot to be desired,I read a report from the DLD they said that it takes 3.5 services to get a cow in calf, that is not good ,but with poor nutrition and management it is to be expected.

If the OP's feeding/management is good it should be a lot better.

AS for DIY AI a good idea you can AI at the right time and your Techique would be better, with a higher conception rate.

But you have got your semen tank is there a supply of liquid nitrogen near you,last thing you need is a 100+km trip to find some nitrogen, get there, and they have run out.

Again a negative posting, but I have to agree with other posting's this is not going to be easy,esp as you have had no hands on experience.

But all the best, and do let us know how you are doing.

Yours Reg

KS