Breaking Up in Thailand

[aTomsLife]

Have any of you ever dated a woman here for a relatively short time, but when the relationship came to a close, she acted like you'd been together for years and now you were abandoning her?

I'm a teacher here, and have realized the Thai education system isn't a good fit for me. I broke the news to my girlfriend that I am quite adamant about returning to the U.S. to earn an M.Ed. She's flipped, and now it's whiny guilt trip after whiny guilt trip. She talks as if we're married -- or perhaps rather that I owe her marriage. (I'm 33 and she's 29)

I've known her less than ten months, the majority of that time spent as "friends" because she was unsure and kept me at a distance. In essence, it felt like I was her dirty little secret for a time, and it wore on me a lot. I never lost my interest totally, but now that she's come around, part of me feels it's too little too late, given my career aspirations.

She is ambitious herself, career advancement is everything to her. She already has a masters, and also talks of perhaps going back to school to earn a Ph.D. In essence, should she decide to, she's allowed to do the very things she's telling me are a violation of our relationship. She recently changed offices because it was a hostile work environment -- I told her, and what do you think teaching English in the average Thai school is like?

Ignoring her own hypocrisy, she has accused me of being a typical farang: I came to Thailand, started a relationship and am now returning home. I countered explaining that returning to Thailand with an M.Ed is the best thing I can do for my long-term stability here. She says I'm just another lying farang. I never in my life suffered double standards like this with women in New York.

I'm not trying to paint all Thai women with the same brush (even though my girlfriend likes to generalize about westerners when it suits her). I am, however, curious if other posters have suffered a similar fate when attempting to end a relationship here.

Was your girlfriend at the time completely unwilling to consider your perspective, and did she attempt to make it a cultural thing?

[HeijoshinCool]

Time passes differently for Thai girls than western. Ten months is a long time from her perspective.

[Eesat]

Helmets on,mount bayonets and over the top we go...Ccchhaaaarrrrgggggggeeeeeeeee!!!

[boosta]

Most likely I'm generalizing too much but here goes.

Western society these days views "living together" sexual relationships as the norm for younger people, and people will have a lot of such before deciding to settle down and get married, usually much later than here.

In upcountry villages a boy simply touching or kissing a girl will usually be considered a violation of her and an offense against her family, punishable by a fine paid by the boy's family to the girls, using a formula based on her sin sot value as opposed to the severity of the transgression. In the case of full sex, consensual or not is irrelevant, the male will owe the full sin sot penalty, and often there will be pressure on both to marry each other, whether they want to or not is irrelevant.

Obviously many more modern urban Thais no longer think this way, but the underlying cultural perceptions and assumptions remain, not that far off from Muslim ideas from our POV.

Therefore most Thais if they even accepted the idea of pre-marital sex, would see such a relationship as a courting process that "should" lead to marriage. By living with her and then breaking it off without a good reason - she hasn't done anything wrong - many Thais would judge that you have "used" or "exploited" her unfairly, taken advantage of her even deceived her.

Unfortunately there really isn't any way to talk your way out of or through this predicament, you need to take a practical POV as to how to get out with your possessions and yourself intact. If you can do so without hurting her further, do your best but do protect yourself, don't expect calm and rational behavior.

And, take it as a compliment.

PS some may interpret this stuff as a scheming scammer trying to use manipulative emotional games and violence to try to get her way, or just being a psycho bitch or whatever. Understand that may well be the case, but it can also simply be a strong reaction to genuine emotions, don't let her behavior at this stage of the relationship cause you to question your view of her back when everything was OK, she may seem like a completely different person now, but the girl you had feelings for is still in there somewhere.

And don't feel too guilty, she'll be fine.

Edited June 19, 2013 by boosta

[benalibina]

Your story proves to show that lack of others perspective in a mixed relationship is not limited to the poorly educated in thailand. In her defense; she waited a while to commit to you and now she sees that in her perspective it is not mutual. Probably she loves you toooooo much and this is than how a simple mind reacts. All emotions no sense ! Understandably ?? That is for you to decide because you know her best.

[aTomsLife]

Thanks boosta, that was a great reply. We, however, are not living together. She would never go for that.

At present, we are still a couple. She is trying to get me to change schools. She says there are Thai schools of good quality, and that it isn't necessary to work at an international school in order to have a stable work environment. I am considering this option. As you say, she is still the woman I've cared about to this point. Nevertheless, with ASEAN around the corner, and Thailand growing leaps and bounds, an M.Ed would create much needed stability for me, before deciding to start a family here.

Edited June 19, 2013 by aTomsLife

[Eesat]

She's just trying to use reverse psychology on you,chuck her like yesterday's cheeseburger wrapper and head on home!
Be careful though as she could turn nasty,maybe better to slip out in the middle of the night?

[1kate1]

Don't take too much to heart......she will have another lined up before your plane leaves the runway,,,,,,majority of them are psychotic nutters ...just be very careful and stay safe......watch for the brothers,cousins,etc

[Eesat]

Don't take too much to heart......she will have another lined up before your plane leaves the runway,,,,,,majority of them are psychotic nutters ...just be very careful and stay safe......watch for the brothers,cousins,etc

My money's on the boarding gate!

[boosta]

She is trying to get me to change schools. She says there are Thai schools of good quality, and that it isn't necessary to work at an international school in order to have a stable work environment. I am considering this option.

-

NO. I can't imagine what podunk degree mill in the west would be as bad as even the most prestigious Thai university for credibility in the international education and corporate marketplace, your education would be viewed as suspect for the rest of your life.

And as bad as some of the International Schools are (especially the many dozen "so called" ones) for negative work environment, absolutely no Thai-run school will be bearable for you professionally afterwards.

If you really love her, put a ring on it and take her with you.

Otherwise stick to your career plan and don't try for a "distance relationship" either, if your love were strong enough to make that possible you'd take the previous option.

[krisb]

The country makes no difference mate. The nationality makes no difference. She will get over it. Time heals.

Word of warning, hide all sharp knives in your house ASAP. Its that Asian thing, you know..

[kannot]

Stupid control freak, dump her, who cares about "her" culture, you have one too and she should think about that, its give and take except in her case all take.

Ask yourself this question, do you really want to marry someone like this???

[boosta]

Also get your breakable expensive electronics over to a friend's house.

[arminbkk]

Thanks boosta, that was a great reply. We, however, are not living together. She would never go for that.

At present, we are still a couple. She is trying to get me to change schools. She says there are Thai schools of good quality, and that it isn't necessary to work at an international school in order to have a stable work environment. I am considering this option. As you say, she is still the woman I've cared about to this point. Nevertheless, with ASEAN around the corner, and Thailand growing leaps and bounds, an M.Ed would create much needed stability for me, before deciding to start a family here.

What happened to:"I'm a teacher here, and have realized the Thai education system isn't a good fit for me."?

I think you'll find that most schools in Thailand, whatever type, follow the same education system.

As for your original question: I guess it can be many things, but it is probably just that she likes you and doesn't want you to leave her.

[villagefarang]

This is why many of us cringe when guys say they want to sleep around with “good girls” instead of renting. You said it yourself, this is not New York, with rules and expectations being very different here. Personally I think she is right about you.

By manipulating her into sleeping with you, it should have been clear to you what you were doing. In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy? Reread the first part of Boosta’s post. You are getting off easy.

[boosta]

What happened to:"I'm a teacher here, and have realized the Thai education system isn't a good fit for me."?

I think you'll find that most schools in Thailand, whatever type, follow the same education system.

-

Not at all true comparing the true International Schools where no Thais are involved in pedagogical management issues, night and day.

-

As for your original question: I guess it can be many things, but it is probably just that she likes you and doesn't want you to leave her.

-

Difference being the possibility of violently destructive confrontation maybe even physical danger, blackmail, getting authorities involved claiming trumped up rape charges etc etc.

Doesn't tend to happen so much back home. . .

[boosta]

You are getting off easy.

-

He isn't on the plane yet.

[boosta]

Stupid control freak, dump her, who cares about "her" culture, you have one too and she should think about that, its give and take except in her case all take.

Ask yourself this question, do you really want to marry someone like this???

-

By manipulating her into sleeping with you, it should have been clear to you what you were doing. In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her.

-

Amazing how people from the same culture can live in the same place and create such totally different realities.

Neither is "right" or "wrong" just different points of view.

I'm really going to miss returning to one homogeneous culture. . .

[Eesat]

This is why many of us cringe when guys say they want to sleep around with “good girls” instead of renting. You said it yourself, this is not New York, with rules and expectations being very different here. Personally I think she is right about you.

By manipulating her into sleeping with you, it should have been clear to you what you were doing. In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy? Reread the first part of Boosta’s post. You are getting off easy.

Just as well he's not Thai then,isn't it?Otherwise he'd be dumping her with a kid for the Grandparent's to look after,while she heads for Pattaya in lipstick and heels,a tear rolling down her cheek!

[aTomsLife]

Thanks boosta, that was a great reply. We, however, are not living together. She would never go for that.

At present, we are still a couple. She is trying to get me to change schools. She says there are Thai schools of good quality, and that it isn't necessary to work at an international school in order to have a stable work environment. I am considering this option. As you say, she is still the woman I've cared about to this point. Nevertheless, with ASEAN around the corner, and Thailand growing leaps and bounds, an M.Ed would create much needed stability for me, before deciding to start a family here.

What happened to:"I'm a teacher here, and have realized the Thai education system isn't a good fit for me."?

I think you'll find that most schools in Thailand, whatever type, follow the same education system.

As for your original question: I guess it can be many things, but it is probably just that she likes you and doesn't want you to leave her.

Indeed, I have realized the Thai education system isn't a good fit -- what I've experienced of it. She said there are better options. I am considering seeking them before leaving. Admittedly, I am indecisive, hence my OP. If I really knew up from down right now, I wouldn't need to talk it out here. I'm in Central Thailand, all my buddies are either in BKK or CM, so Thai Visa it is.

[aTomsLife]

This is why many of us cringe when guys say they want to sleep around with “good girls” instead of renting. You said it yourself, this is not New York, with rules and expectations being very different here. Personally I think she is right about you.

By manipulating her into sleeping with you, it should have been clear to you what you were doing. In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy? Reread the first part of Boosta’s post. You are getting off easy

Wow, just wow. Who is sleeping around? I'm monogamous -- end of that discussion. I date "good girls" because I'm a decent, hard working guy. That you were inclined to use the P4P scene prior to getting married was your prerogative, but it's not mine.

So I manipulated her, did I? That is nonsense. I started out with sincere intentions. She is 29, a grown woman. We met, liked each other, got to know one another, and there were quite a few bumps in the road. Don't feel obliged to marry her, if that offends your sensibilities, so be it.

"In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her."

I'm sure that's true. But in some circles back home, particularly those involving my family, giving up on my career aspirations because I've had a Thai girlfriend for a few months could affect the way people look at me too.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy?

This isn't about a guy's versus a girl's perspective. My perspective is the same as hers -- happiness in one's career is of the utmost importance. There's just a double standard present when it applies to me.

There is so much wrong with what you wrote.

[aTomsLife]

She is trying to get me to change schools. She says there are Thai schools of good quality, and that it isn't necessary to work at an international school in order to have a stable work environment. I am considering this option.

-

NO. I can't imagine what podunk degree mill in the west would be as bad as even the most prestigious Thai university for credibility in the international education and corporate marketplace, your education would be viewed as suspect for the rest of your life.

And as bad as some of the International Schools are (especially the many dozen "so called" ones) for negative work environment, absolutely no Thai-run school will be bearable for you professionally afterwards.

If you really love her, put a ring on it and take her with you.

Otherwise stick to your career plan and don't try for a "distance relationship" either, if your love were strong enough to make that possible you'd take the previous option.

Change the school I work at, not change the school I'm considering attending back home.

[benalibina]

She is trying to get me to change schools. She says there are Thai schools of good quality, and that it isn't necessary to work at an international school in order to have a stable work environment. I am considering this option.

-NO. I can't imagine what podunk degree mill in the west would be as bad as even the most prestigious Thai university for credibility in the international education and corporate marketplace, your education would be viewed as suspect for the rest of your life.And as bad as some of the International Schools are (especially the many dozen "so called" ones) for negative work environment, absolutely no Thai-run school will be bearable for you professionally afterwards.If you really love her, put a ring on it and take her with you.Otherwise stick to your career plan and don't try for a "distance relationship" either, if your love were strong enough to make that possible you'd take the previous option.

Change the school I work at, not change the school I'm considering attending back home.

Smart.

[villagefarang]

There is so much wrong with what you wrote.

I hope I am wrong, but that is the way it reads to me. Perhaps my reading skills are lacking. Anyway, good luck and I hope she doesn’t get pissed off and take a more adversarial approach.

[aTomsLife]

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

[boosta]

Not my business at this point, but. . .

It seems clear that you don't want to marry her.

99% sure she wants to marry you. For you to change your life plans to "make her happy" would not be doing her any favors, she needs to move on to another prospective husband - and she will, much sooner than you'd like to think, quite likely I hate to say from experience here there are multiple other fellows in the running right now standing in the wings, perhaps even higher up her priority list than you. Not saying anything bad about her, that's just how the courting process works here.

For you to string things out from here on would be both a bad move for you, and inconsiderate of her, wasting her valuable time - remember she's well past her use-by date by Thai standards, probably feeling pretty old-maidish by now.

Do you both a favor and cut her loose.

And do beware the possibly violent psycho-bitch acting out anytime between now and when you board the plane.

If it doesn't play out that way, do please come back and let us know, this place could use some positive stories. . .

[boosta]

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

-

Every single time it's been a major drama scene, with all the scenarios I mentioned above. Never once has it been a clean calm rational discussion, even with explicit P4P girls after just a few weeks of residence.

Worst was the mother of my children, many instances of violence in front of them, sometimes while I was sleeping, tried to stab me with a knife once and another time threatening to plant yaa baa in my belongings and call the cops telling them I'm a dealer.

That was to persuade me to let her go, not to prevent us breaking up.

I did grant her her freedom eventually, two years of hell first.

Situation normal here, many friends and co-workers report the same. One girl showed up at school barged into his classroom shouting about him diddling little kids, cops had to be called.

All along the same lines, etc etc, boring stuff repeating it

[theblether]

part of me feels it's too little too late,

..............and the other part feels?

[Salapoo]

Dump her. Buy ticket. Fit in as many thai girls as you can in the remaining time.

[boosta]

Wow, just wow. Who is sleeping around? I'm monogamous -- end of that discussion. I date "good girls" because I'm a decent, hard working guy.

-

He didn't mean to imply you're promiscuous, just reflecting the dominant Thai value system of sexual mores, by having sex before marriage and then not marrying her even though she did nothing wrong, according to this culture you are automatically doing wrong by her.

You can argue all you like about modern swinging upper-class girls, and of course they do exist - when it suits them they'll shag a guy 'cause they're horny and then drop him like a hot potato.

But if you enter into a regular thing, become a monogamous couple, in Thai culture you already ARE married, the paperwork really doesn't mean much - see the Thai PM for an example.

So that's the position she's taking, where she's coming from, and now you have to deal with the situation on that basis, not the one you thought was operating.

She will probably expect some sort of compensation to make up for her psychic injuries and loss of face.

Not saying you owe it to her, just don't be surprised to know you can buy your way out of trouble.

Or run away like a thief in the night, that's the usual way it's handled here.