Octane, fuel consumpsion,gasohol,engine protection & performance

[Rolanddrums]

Hi guys, i will be coming to live in Thailand soon and will be buying a new 2013 spec Kawasaki ER-6N. Although I only have some knowledge of the various fuels available there ,I am an engine tuner of 25 years experience and would like to share with you some of what I know to be true and learn some more from you regarding best local fuel brands / price etc.

OCTANE/ PINKING It would appear from what Ive read that Thailand uses RON measurement standard therefore even 95 ( the highest) isn't that great compared to Europe octane levels. Although modern vehicles may state on the sticker that Minimum Ron 91 is ok , I would personally use 95 . The reason being under high load ( wide throttle opening , but not necessarily high rpm) combined with high ambient temps combined with 'who knows' how much carbon deposits in the engine, the engine could still 'pink' ( or 'ping' in US ) occassionally on 91 Ron. That will either result in the ecu retarding the timing and reducing power, or not retarding it enough which still reduces power and worse still eroding away at the head gasket and valves little by little . If you love your bike enough use the higher octane where possible. Datalogging the ignition timing may or may not show a more retarded ignition timing on 91 Ron where the knock sensor has backed off the timing...Best not to rely on or lean on the knock sensor unless you have to .

FUEL CONSUMPSION I've read that many people experience worse fuel consumpsion on Gasohol E10 ......Quite simply you will !

So whether the reduced price of Gasohol offsets this enough is debatable. My gut feeling is Benzine would work out cheaper in terms of 'miles per hundred baht' and in a hire car we had recently it was much worse . I have also read that some people believe that their ( modern) bike 'knows' its on Gasohol and adjusts accordingly. ...Well in a similar vane that the engine knows you're running low octane (pinks and then retards the spark), it also knows your running gasohol ( 91 or 95 gasohol) by feedback from the oxygen sensor in the exhaust . How ? The moment you swop from Benzine to Gasohol the Lambda or Oxygen sensor detects a leaner than normal mixture in the exhaust and automatically increases the fuel injector duration ( swirts in more fuel for a giving load) to compensate. This 'closed loop' is operational most of the time and even when not (eg at wide open throttle) it still puts in more fuel based on 'multiapplicative adaptation'.

SO WHAT ABOUT OLDER ENGINES WITHOUT OXYGEN SENSORS IN THE EXHAUST ,OR CARB ENGINES ?

These will definitly run leaner on Gasohol than Benzine. The difference between Gasohol E10 and Benzine of the same octane may be slight, but could result in any combination of higher combustion temps/lower power/lower fuel consumpsion ( as throttle wider open for a given cruise or accelation rate). or long term engine damage...On these engines unless you 'up jet' the carb IMO its not a good idea to run Gasohol.

To summarize I would use 95 Benzine in all 'loved' vehicles. Ethanol added increases the octane so 95 Benzine or 95 Gasohol have the same resistance to 'knock or pinking' BUT at the expense of fuel consumpsion on a modern vehicle with its closed loop injection, or running lean on an older vehicle.

..Best Regards Roland,

[Rolanddrums]

Thinking into this further , if you have a moden motor bike with 'closed loop' fuelling ,then running 95 Gasohol COULD give more power than 95 Benzine . Reason being the ecu would increase injector duration to compensate for the otherwise lean mixture , but the Ethanol not only acts as an 'anti detonant' but also RELEASES OXYGEN as it burns .....more oxygen in the cylinder running at the correct A/F ratio is better for power than less oxgen in the cylinder running at the correct A/F Ratio. Therefore on performance grounds alone on a modern bike, Shell 'Nitro V Power 95 Gasohol '( Or whatever its called in Thailand) SHOULD be the best.

[Qauvorka]

Been waiting for the usual desk jockey responses but none forwarding, I guess a educated post leaves them with nothing to say. Have wondered the pros and cons thanks heaps for your informative post

[mania]

I never saw this post the first time it came thru

Glad it got bumped interesting reading

[Beardog]

I use the top benzine I can burn in my ER6n. Up to you but I like having the best. If this was San Francisco I would be burning 106 octane (Sunoco) that I run in all my race cars back home. I just like the zero issues of the best up here. It is only 47 baht a liter & my ride gets 20 kilo's to a liter & I am always on the throttle. No pings quick response. I just don't care for duff in my fuel if anything premix would be the only additive I would use. But the 95 benzine is good enough. It will burn I think E-10 but gas is to cheap to worry about..............................Next

[BSJ]

LPG would be the best thing to run ya bike on but those pessy gas tanks are such a space killer in the top box.

[Lancelot]

I have a 2011 Honda CBR250. My manual says I have a choice of four fuels, so I use E20

[brfsa2]

I get the almost same mileage on benzine 91 and gasohol 91 (E10)

I use this program for android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.evancharlton.mileage

been tracking for many years, but 2 months ago I lost the database of the program... so had to restart from 0.

Gasohol 91 E10 is 24% cheaper than Benzine 95

and E20 is 35% cheaper!

Huge difference...

[KRS1]

benzine 91 is no longer available.

[RaysFan]

I am about to do my first fuel up on my pcx 150... which should I choose? I dont care about the price. I just want whats best for the bike...

Sent from my GT-I9500

[RaysFan]

Girlfriend says gasohol is best... but what does ahe know?

Sent from my GT-I9500

[KRS1]

95 benzine

but youll go farther on 91 gasohol

[RaysFan]

Lol the thing already gets an advertised 102 mpg. I could honestly care less if I get 100 or 107 mpg. I just want peak performance.... you are what you eat.

Sent from my GT-I9500

[mania]

Gasohol 95 would be more than fine or you can use Benz also

[Lancelot]

Lol the thing already gets an advertised 102 mpg. I could honestly care less if I get 100 or 107 mpg. I just want peak performance.... you are what you eat.

Sent from my GT-I9500

100% gasoline has 114,000 BTUs of energy

Gasohol91 (E10, 10% ethanol) has 112,000 BTUs of energy.

Think you can discern the difference? But its your money, so go for it

Edited September 2, 2013 by Lancelot

[RaysFan]

So your saying gasohol 91 is best?

Sent from my GT-I9500

[JonnyF]

I missed this the first time as well. An excellent read, I use Benzine 95 in all my bikes, primarily due to something the OP noted which is the Thailand RON rating makes the fuel seem higher in Octane than it really is, and 95 here is equivalent to 91 in many of our home countries.

Also, I do low mileage on my bikes these days (the worst example is my KSR which is 6 years old and has done 7500kms) and I don't want them standing around for months on end with Gasohol rotting the lines (now Benzine 91 is gone I have to buy Benzine 95). Based on my low mileage the difference in price is negligible and I find I get better mileage with Benzine 95 anyway which increases my range when touring.

[mania]

Also, I do low mileage on my bikes these days (the worst example is my KSR which is 6 years old and has done 7500kms) and I don't want them standing around for months on end with Gasohol rotting the lines (now Benzine 91 is gone I have to buy Benzine 95). Based on my low mileage the difference in price is negligible and I find I get better mileage with Benzine 95 anyway which increases my range when touring.

You bring up a good point

[ll2]

Thanks for the thread OP.

i mostly use shell v power 95 nitro here in Thailand and sometime Caltex real benzine 95.

I believe r&g of Shell more that others for sure.

And i can say, real benzine goes 5% more most of the time on my bikes and cars i use.

And, performance increase between gasohol and benzine sure not something significant we can feel? I do not think so at least on a 47 hp bike.

Edited September 2, 2013 by ll2

[Garry]

I have run Gasohol 95 and mike has run good on it, but I can't leave it in the bike otherwise the fuel hoses will start to show crystals deposits. I will suffer with 91 & 95 Benzine when I can get it and no rubber hose deterioration

[BirdsandBooze]

Doesn't benzine 95 actually contain 5% ethanol? I read a while back that all petrol/gasoline now sold here contains it.

[wantan]

Doesn't benzine 95 actually contain 5% ethanol? I read a while back that all petrol/gasoline now sold here contains it.

In Europe too (E5). They use it as antiknock additive (replacement for leaded fuel).

Edited September 3, 2013 by wantan

[Beardog]

Doesn't benzine 95 actually contain 5% ethanol? I read a while back that all petrol/gasoline now sold here contains it.

Correct but it is only 5% with higher octane opposed to 10% of duff.

[Ticketmaster]

I use the top benzine I can burn in my ER6n. Up to you but I like having the best. If this was San Francisco I would be burning 106 octane (Sunoco) that I run in all my race cars back home. I just like the zero issues of the best up here. It is only 47 baht a liter & my ride gets 20 kilo's to a liter & I am always on the throttle. No pings quick response. I just don't care for duff in my fuel if anything premix would be the only additive I would use. But the 95 benzine is good enough. It will burn I think E-10 but gas is to cheap to worry about..............................Next

Ditto, except for the part about "only 47 baht a liter." Christ, they're taking us to the cleaners. Only a couple of years ago, I could come rolling into the station dry and maybe get 520 baht. Now days, it over 700. With subsidized diesel, the ER6 is just a tiny bit cheaper to drive than my truck!

I missed this post as well, and just stumbled across it. It didn't make the "Best Topics" e-mail list, and should have.

[fatbastard68]

So lets clarify this 91 Red is gone about a year now.

What we have now is 91 gasohol 20% Ethanol

95 gasohol 10% Ethanol

95 Benzene 5% Ethanol

Which colour/color is which ....green yellow orange ??????

[papa al]

91 gasohol is 10% ETOL...green.

20% stuff is different...rarely seen yet.

I track milage and average 64km/l (~145mpg) putting around town on my Wave 110i with the green.

...Cheap Charley.

[Lancelot]

91 gasohol is 10% ETOL...green.

20% stuff is different...rarely seen yet.

I track milage and average 64km/l (~145mpg) putting around town on my Wave 110i with the green.

...Cheap Charley.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Lancelot