Change Citizenship For Decent Health Care? What Is America Good For?

[OldChinaHam]

I find, these days, that America is becoming ever more absurd and more exasperating by the year as its society there does not choose to recognize its failures to provide affordable good quality heath care to US citizens.

Americans seem to be living in a dream world, one in which they daily pretend that their country is actually what they mistakenly still believe it to be, a kinder and gentler America with fine religious traditions.

I may be exaggerating a bit by stating that I would happily now give up my citizenship in exchange for decent health care like we have in Taiwan, Australia, the UK, France, Germany, Canada and other civilized countries.

But if I am a US citizen who is living in Thailand, then what do I do to be able to get the same good coverage I get when I am a resident of Taiwan, or a citizen of Taiwan?

And what do I do if I want to get the same good coverage as a person from Australia would receive if he or she were living in Thailand for a few years? What extra, if any, would the Australian citizen pay to be covered and receive good health care wile in Thailand?

Am I now at a financial disadvantage BECAUSE I am a US citizen when I purchase decent health care in Thailand?

I just want to know how much it will cost me to obtain health insurance so that I will not need to fight the insurers or debate over whether coverage was justified or not, after any particular medical expense.

In Taiwan, NO ONE needs to do this. When people in Taiwan get sick or need surgery, they get treated. Then they go home to recover or stay in the hospital to recover. There is no private or government office which is lurking in the shadows just waiting to leap out and contest paying for health care, and maybe bankrupt you.

In Taiwan, it does not cost anything for healthcare, basically.

But OK, since I am an American, what would it cost me for the same good coverage that is provided to citizens in Taiwan, if I am living in Thailand?

Another question, is it more expensive for an American to get health insurance in Thailand? Compared to a person from the UK to get the same health care in Thailand?

What about someone from Sweden or Norway, for example?

Do Health Insurers have different RATES based on the citizenship of the person who is seeking insurance coverage?

HONESTLY, speaking, I would almost be very happy now to change my citizenship to get good health insurance while I am in Thailand. But I don't think I will have time to do this.

I just want to know what kind of a disadvantage I am now at being a citizen of the U.S. while seeking health insurance.

Also, does anyone know the approximate annual cost of purchasing health insurance each year for someone who is living in Thailand? If he is an American? And if he is 30, 40, 50 and 60 years old? I just want to be able to go to a doctor's office, or a hospital, receive treatment, and then not need to pay anything, like in Taiwan. What will insurance like this cost me? And will I get cheated by the private insurance companies?

Sometimes, I wonder, when being involved in a major accident for example, it really might be far better to be killed than to be injured, if one is an American.

Or if one knows that one's health is slightly failing, then volunteer for Iraq or try to sign up to get killed in a war zone.

In America, Life Is Cheap.

Thank you for any input --- I will need to decide on the best insurance option for myself to be finalized in a couple of weeks. So far, the situation is confusing and I don't have much faith in the options.

[Jingthing]

Oy.

Anyway, no a private insurance policy for coverage in THAILAND would not be more for Americans (with the same age, health histories, etc).

An international policy which covers care in the USA obviously will be more expensive, a LOT more expensive.

I agree with you about how horrible the USA health care system is and sadly Obamacare is not going to fix that, but that's kind of off topic for a Thailand forum.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Jingthing

[OldChinaHam]

Oy.

Anyway, no a private insurance policy for coverage in THAILAND would not be more for Americans (with the same age, health histories, etc).

An international policy which covers care in the USA obviously will be more expensive, a LOT more expensive.

I agree with you about how horrible the USA health care system is and sadly Obamacare is not going to fix that, but that's kind of off topic for a Thailand forum.

Thanks. Health Care in the US is probably off the table for me, anyway. I will be only too happy if I never need to return to the U.S. again and worry about being cheated, denigrated, and made to feel only half human.

[OldChinaHam]

The other point worth noting is that I had thought, maybe, health care could be more expensive to cover in Thailand for Americans IF persons from other countries were also receiving health benefits from their governments, which might mean that their total expense could be somehow shared between the private insurer and their host country government health care program. I have no idea if this is actually the case in practice though.

[Jingthing]

To add, under Obamacare it at least will be theoretically possible to obtain insurance for the previously uninsurable based on preexisting conditions, while in Thailand there are still many uninsurable under the private system. I won't go into what I mean by theoretically as too off topic.

[MrRealDeal]

You better get some kind of insurance before you blow a gasket !

[OldChinaHam]

You better get some kind of insurance before you blow a gasket !

Thanks!

I am now evaluating my bad options.

The Taiwan option is GREAT, though. I have had very good health care there for decades.

I am just trying to figure out the best way to obtain similar coverage in Thailand, coverage that I know I can trust and will not be contested after I am hit with health expenses.

If you have any ideas about what this will cost on an annual basis for people in the age groups I mention, I would like to read them here.

Also, it is not fair to factor in the state of health of the person being insured. They do not do that in Taiwan. Everyone gets the same coverage, even dialysis, at the same fee, which is something like USD100 per year. (I would need to check the exact price, and it could be less.)

[OldChinaHam]

Also, I hope this will not turn into a topic about Obamacare. That, as you say, is a very different subject than what I am discussing here.

Thanks!

[Jingthing]

Taiwan is definitely better! Maybe you picked the wrong Tai country to live in!

[OldChinaHam]

Taiwan is definitely better! Maybe you picked the wrong Tai country to live in!

Yes. Taiwan healthcare for citizens is definitely better. This is precisely why I now need additional private insurance in Thailand.

But Thailand is best for recovery due to the better weather, and recovery from surgery in Thailand is faster, with the sunny days and the clean air and the fantastic food, one should really have access to both Tai countries if one was fortunate.

[craigt3365]

You better get some kind of insurance before you blow a gasket !

Thanks!

I am now evaluating my bad options.

The Taiwan option is GREAT, though. I have had very good health care there for decades.

I am just trying to figure out the best way to obtain similar coverage in Thailand, coverage that I know I can trust and will not be contested after I am hit with health expenses.

If you have any ideas about what this will cost on an annual basis for people in the age groups I mention, I would like to read them here.

Also, it is not fair to factor in the state of health of the person being insured. They do not do that in Taiwan. Everyone gets the same coverage, even dialysis, at the same fee, which is something like USD100 per year. (I would need to check the exact price, and it could be less.)

There are many, many threads on this here. If you use the search function, you'll find dozens of posts that already talk about this.

Another recommendation is to meet with an insurance broker and have them lay out a few plans for you. Costs will be provided and many of your questions will be answered. You don't have to buy, just get educated. I recently did this and got a lot of great information.

AFTER you have done that, come back here with your specific questions.

And yes, please keep your posts focused on Thailand.

[citizen33]

I think the OP is right about the relative advantages of the Taiwan and Thai healthcare systems for an expat. Probably it is too late for him, but if he is working and under 60 years old, he could probably join the social security scheme and then maintain his payments into retirement. There are many threads on that scheme, but the OP's username suggests it won't help.

[JLCrab]

If you are age 60 a 2 million baht per incident coverage goes around 60,000 baht per year. That depends what at what age you initiated coverage and if the underwriters say you are medically insurable to start the policy.

Plus you might also factor in almost $100 per month at age 65 to get a good Medicare Advantage program just in case.

[AAInsuranceBrokers]

Gosh not quiote sure where to start with this :

But if I am a US citizen who is living in Thailand, then what do I do to be able to get the same good coverage I get when I am a resident of Taiwan, or a citizen of Taiwan? Complete an application form

And what do I do if I want to get the same good coverage as a person from Australia would receive if he or she were living in Thailand for a few years? What extra, if any, would the Australian citizen pay to be covered and receive good health care wile in Thailand? None – all Nationalities are treat equal

Am I now at a financial disadvantage BECAUSE I am a US citizen when I purchase decent health care in Thailand? No

I just want to know how much it will cost me to obtain health insurance so that I will not need to fight the insurers or debate over whether coverage was justified or not, after any particular medical expense. As an example please see the table below

In Taiwan, NO ONE needs to do this. When people in Taiwan get sick or need surgery, they get treated. Then they go home to recover or stay in the hospital to recover. There is no private or government office which is lurking in the shadows just waiting to leap out and contest paying for health care, and maybe bankrupt you. I think you will find if Thais get sick they are also treated

In Taiwan, it does not cost anything for healthcare, basically. Basically ?

But OK, since I am an American, what would it cost me for the same good coverage that is provided to citizens in Taiwan, if I am living in Thailand? Example below

Another question, is it more expensive for an American to get health insurance in Thailand? Compared to a person from the UK to get the same health care in Thailand? No – we do not hold your Nationality against you – all are equal.

What about someone from Sweden or Norway, for example? Even the Scandinavians are treated equal

Do Health Insurers have different RATES based on the citizenship of the person who is seeking insurance coverage? No

HONESTLY, speaking, I would almost be very happy now to change my citizenship to get good health insurance while I am in Thailand. But I don't think I will have time to do this. ?

I just want to know what kind of a disadvantage I am now at being a citizen of the U.S. while seeking health insurance. None

Also, does anyone know the approximate annual cost of purchasing health insurance each year for someone who is living in Thailand? If he is an American? And if he is 30, 40, 50 and 60 years old? I just want to be able to go to a doctor's office, or a hospital, receive treatment, and then not need to pay anything, like in Taiwan. What will insurance like this cost me? And will I get cheated by the private insurance companies? Lesson #1, all insurance companies (the world over) are there to make money

Sometimes, I wonder, when being involved in a major accident for example, it really might be far better to be killed than to be injured, if one is an American. Interesting thought

Or if one knows that one's health is slightly failing, then volunteer for Iraq or try to sign up to get killed in a war zone. The American military accepts sick/infirmed personnel ?

In America, Life Is Cheap. Sorry to hear that

IPD USD1m

IPD USD0.5m

21 – 25 years $ 583 $ 528 26 – 30 years $ 638 $ 576 31 – 35 years $ 741 $ 669 36 – 40 years $ 826 $ 744 41 – 45 years $ 920 $ 831 46 – 50 years $ 1021 $ 922 51 – 55 years $ 1633 $ 1474 56 – 60 years $ 1835 $ 1658 61 – 65 years $ 1939 $ 1751 66 – 70 years $ 2130 $ 1927 70 – 75 years $ 2448 $ 2215

This is an example of ages/premiums Underwritten by Allianz (Europe) BUT please note one has to start these plans before age 65.

Any further information please feel free to contact us HERE

[JLCrab]

From AA above: Lesson #1, all insurance companies (the world over) are there to make money --

True. But BUPA/Thailand, while it certainly intends to remain profitable, is a Provident Association without shareholders or, in USA terms a non-profit, and re-invests all profits in its business operations and reserves.

[OldChinaHam]

Thank you very much to the above two posters. I am glad to know that I will not be at a disadvantage just due to my nationality when I purchase health insurance.

Also, JLCrab, my preference is, as you say, something which like BUPA may not always be weighing profits when I am sick and in need of covering medical expenses.

As an expat, I would not expect to be entitled to health care coverage paid for by the Thai government. However, I am seeking to participate in a plan which shares all health related costs for all individuals over the entire group. The larger the number of participants in the insured group, the less volatility and more reliability I think I can expect.

The only reason I mentioned Taiwan is that my preference would be to try to duplicate some coverage for myself which is the closest I can get to what is offered in Taiwan. I am most familiar with Taiwan's program and I can happily live with it.

I am NOT in Taiwan and I now must find a different program which will be not too different from what I have used during past years in terms of price and coverage.

Thailand seems to have a good healthcare system which operates at a fair cost structure. So my expectation was that my cost of insurance would be a lot lower than I might pay for similar or even poorer coverage in the US.

One thing here which was not touched on was dental care, which I consider to be an integral part of health care, since it has such a direct correlation on one's health:

I will need dental coverage, both emergency and non-emergency, as part of my healthcare plan.

The pricing you list above is reasonable, very reasonable if the insurers don't fight you tooth and nail when you submit a claim.

I'll also submit a form that you linked.

Thanks!

(I stand by what I said above in the Original Post: Life is Cheap in America. The sooner Americans realize this, the better off they will be. (But I no sidetracking here.))

I have also submitted a few forms for quotes to two other EU companies.

(Now when I finally do get insured again, I probably won't get sick or have and accident!)