Farang got Stabbed

[stickylies]

I currently live in , Pattaya, I rather enjoy living here. Has to beat the hell out of watching rice grow... :-)

no rice here. please try again.

[EyesWideOpen]

UPDATE:

American hacked to death over Bt51

Quoting eyewitnesses, police said both men had scuffled after Pilkington threw the coffee in his paper cup at Cherdchai through the passenger side door window. Cherdchai had been yelling at the man to pay up. The suspect told police later that he took the long knife from the boot and confronted the American, but the victim attacked first.

...

The passenger accused him of rigging the meter and got out. Cherdchai said he was enraged and grabbed the machete, only with the intent to threaten him.

I believe that version without much doubt.

machete man surely just wanted to scare this non fare paying farang. but after he continued to attacked him he finally used the weapon he had in in his hand. in the short video you can also see how machete man is still walking backwards and probably surprised by the farangs reaction to attack him.

i have seen some complete and utter <deleted> posted on this site, but this is up there with the best/worst ever !!

u believe the taxi drivers version without much doubt ??

who else (apart from the taxi driver) has said they saw this poor guy throw coffee at the driver ??

who else has said he attacked the taxi driver first ?

unless u have seen a diiferent video from me ... the American guy doesn't react until he is struck by the taxi driver !!

and even IF (and that's a big IF) he did throw coffee or water or whatever at the driver ... he still didn't deserve to die !!

Tell me why should i not believe a Thai taxi driver or Thai eyewitnesses?

Sherry Ann Duncan murder case ???

[MaxYakov]

Quote: AVOID CONFLICT with Thais at all costs

I agree and learned that from ... Thai (they also avoid conflict!). Some years ago I bought a pack of hair elastics, worth 15 bath. When I got home and opened the package it seemed all elastics were "rotten". I told my thai pal I was going to take them back to the store (typical farang reaction, i didn't care about the 15 bath but wanted to tell the seller his goods were decayed). My friend said not to do it, just accept it and buy new ones somewhere else. Live and learn.

So........in any conflict with a Thai, fall to your knees, perform a deep wai, beg forgiveness for being a lowly farang, and hand over any amount of money the Thai wants ??? Ok no problem...

I don't know if you were quoting me or not, but I did state: avoid confrontation at all costs.

I was being a bit theatrical to make a point . Each conflict should be judged by itself. So if you are in a bar, and get overcharged 20 baht, smile , walk away, and not go there again. If you are in a taxi, and he demands 1000 baht for a 100 baht ride, time to move into confrontation mode. So the conclusion is simple. Do not make everything a conflict to be settled physically, and do not be a walking marshmallow who hands money over to anybody who asks for it. In this particular case, he should have handed over the 51 baht and called it a day. That is what I would have done...

Theatrical's OK. We both agree on paying rather than fighting in this case of confrontation or anything vaguely resembling it.

I doubt either of us (or most rational folks) would have caused the conflict to go to this level of confrontation in the first place.

My reply was accidentally posted before I had finished it: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/651819-farang-got-stabbed/page-18#entry6589578

[EyesWideOpen]

I currently live in , Pattaya, I rather enjoy living here. Has to beat the hell out of watching rice grow... :-)

no rice here. please try again.

Moving a bit off topic, but hope the moderators will indulge me as I attempt

to apply a bit of deductive reasoning to this knotty question... If you not in Nakon Nowhere watching rice grow, that rules out Isan. I guess according to you , the farang infested spots of Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Bangkok, Hua Hin, Pattaya, and Phuket would have to be ruled out as well. And you certainly would not be in south Thailand if you say your location was peaceful. So that leaves only one spot........Koh Samui !!!!

[stickylies]

Each conflict should be judged by itself. So if you are in a bar, and get overcharged 20 baht, smile , walk away, and not go there again. If you are in a taxi, and he demands 1000 baht for a 100 baht ride, time to move into confrontation mode. So the conclusion is simple. Do not make everything a conflict to be settled physically, and do not be a walking marshmallow who hands money over to anybody who asks for it. In this particular case, he should have handed over the 51 baht and called it a day. That is what I would have done...

. bar scenario: agreed

. taxi scenario: OR you agree a price in advance (and stick to it) OR you pay what the meter says.

if you're not certain about a certain price ASK in advance. it's not that difficult right ? 25 years ago Spanish costa folks systematically overcharged non-spanish tourists. ask any spanish person who was into tourist biz back then.

if some thai wants to charge me 50 baht for 15 baht bananas I say "AAAAH", smile (and no i don't wai) and don't buy,. that's what I mean with avoiding conflict. it's all about common sense and people skills. but there's plenty of examples where farang thinks he's being scammed whereas he's not. example: pineapple. some pineapple cost 5 or 10 bath a piece, OTHER TYPE of pineapple costs 20 or 30 bath a piece. farang doesn't KNOW it's a DIFFERENT pineapple and starts a rant. i saw this on the market.

[stickylies]

Koh Samui !!!!

never even been there!

but u're right i'm not in any of the places you excluded.

btw. Satun is very peaceful, not that i live there, and has hardly any farang ;-)

and here's another great place with little farang (not that I live there) Mae Sariang ;-)

and Nan is nice too!

Edited July 8, 2013 by stickylies

[soundman]

Troll and replies removed from view. Persistent trolling will result in loss of posting privileges. Be warned.

[Lakegeneve]

I always find it bemusing that so many are so readily prepared to speculate, guess and fabricate what they perceive or imagine has occurred based on very limited info and often inaccurate reports. It really does belie belief when we know so little. Who here would really rely upon info reported in the thai press or statements from the BIB in order to make an objective assessment of an incident? Seriously......!

Even more farcical is that some then wish to have an argument or debate with others on the thread about issues which they speculate may or may not have occurred!!!

All that is really known is that an American was tragically killed due to the actions of another. A Thai taxi driver allegedly armed with an inappropriate weapon - for any circumstances - and seemingly not in imminent danger of serious injury by the victim has been charged in relation to the death.

The tragedy is that people are so willing to condemn, judge and engage in conjecture without knowing shit about the facts. In that respect most doing that would seemingly be suitable candidates to join the local police force.

[brewsterbudgen]

I just checked that site and see NOTHING of the kind. Convenient to mention that source. Anyone else have an actual source of credible witnesses of the coffee throwing? I think many would like to see that.

Apologies. It was The Nation that referred to eye witnesses.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/American-hacked-to-death-over-BT51-30209924.html

Edited July 8, 2013 by brewsterbudgen

[mrtoad]

Appalled that the apologists are out in force defending the indefensible. Irrespective of what was said, or done - killing a man with a Samuri sword over 50 or 100 baht is disgusting. The death penalty is exactly what is needed for this piece of scum.

My condolences to the family of the deceased.

[mrtoad]

Please do not take the murderer's story of having coffee thrown at him at face value. His motivation at inventing a "justification" is obvious.

That is what eyewitnesses said.

But of course the eyewitnesses are most likely Thai - so you would not believe them anyway, right?

I saw plenty of farang behaving like the taxi driver describes this man. i believe him and the eyewitnesses.

Please cite your sources if you can. Thank you.

I vey much doubt he can, clearly seeing through Saffron Tinted glasses is not easy.

[klubex99]

OK... I wanted to put a Thai perspective on this.

I went to Pantip.com which is the biggest forum for Thais and is the thaivisa equivalent. So that I can get a clear view of how Thais have reacted to this shocking news.

It is overwhelmingly in condemnation of the murder of Mr Pilkington. The anger towards not only the taxi driver, but also to the police who are once again being blamed by Thais for this outrage. Comments ranged from Pity Mr Pilkington, come to Thailand and had to die. One other stated he wants to go to Sauvanabhumi airport and get out of here. Another said that they won't get in a taxi ever again in BKK, and they are all bad people who are always armed and are always violent and part of a big organized gang. (Yes, the taxis here are run by criminals and you have to be affiliated to even get a job)..... remember these are the words of Thai people and not my own words.

After digging a bit deeper, my wife managed to unearth many reports of incidents involving armed and violent BKK taxi drivers. Not sure if I can post links to the videos. But I will anyway.

These are all very recent, there are so many and we only looked for a few minutes and these are the first ones we found. If you can read Thai, you should find many more.

VIDEO 1

Just last week, one taxi cuts up another on the road and is followed to the gas station by the aggrieved driver who gets out of his cab with a knife and attempts to get at the other driver, there was a passenger in the other car and the taxi kept his doors locked and managed to get away.

VIDEO 2

A young passenger was very drunk and taxi driver said if he wanted to vomit, then tell him to stop and vomit outside the cab. Guy told him to stop and got out and vomited in the street, then for some reason a scuffle breaks out and the driver reaches into his cab and take out a gun and shoots the kid 6 times.

VIDEO 3

Taxi driver gets overtaken by nutter taxi driver and beeps his horn. The nutter gets out of his cab and threatens the other driver with what looks to be a samurai sword, but the victim driver thinks it was a length of pipe.

I could post many more, but you get the idea.

It seems that Thai people are very pissed off at this incident as most of us are (minus a core of apologists that you always get on here). But the real underlying problem is that the police are reluctant to do anything about it, and all they really need to do is to have a crackdown and conduct an operation to search taxis randomly, and anyone carrying a weapon is whisked straight of to prison. But they choose to be reactive rather than proactive. Disarm the taxis and make a lot of examples of offenders with large prison sentences, only then will there start to be an improvement.

While they are at it, enforce the law that was introduced by THE GOVERNMENT saying ALL taxi drivers must accept a fare no matter what. Which was completely ignored by the taxi drivers because a few weeks after it came out, I was in BKK and me and the wife had to stand in the rain while we were refused by about 15 taxis in a row, and that was for around a 150B fare.

I have to say. I agree with most of the Thais.

Edited July 8, 2013 by klubex99

[connda]

So........in any conflict with a Thai, fall to your knees, perform a deep wai, beg forgiveness for being a lowly farang, and hand over any amount of money the Thai wants ??? Ok no problem...

did I say that? u seem a bit of an overly emotional person.

In all these years i've been here i've had zero serious/remarkable conflicts with thai, never. But then again, I don't live in some farang infested hole. My life here is very relax and peaceful.

Hahaha not overly emotional at all..... :-) But I don't take shit in my home country, and I don't take it here either . The conflicts I have had here resolved themselves with me neither advancing in anger , or retreating in fear, but simply stating my position and holding my ground. Regarding the " farang infested hole" I currently live in , Pattaya, I rather enjoy living here. Has to beat the hell out of watching rice grow... :-) Wait a minute... If a bunch of farangs are an infestation, are you as a farang an infestation of one out in Nakon Nowhere ?? LOL

Sorry, but as soon as I saw the machete come out of the trunk of the car, I would have been running. In Mr. Pinkington's case, he should have beat feet after he blocked the first attack. But he went on the offensive. Maybe he thought his martial art training was good enough to disarm the cab driver.

There's a time to stand your ground, and there is a time to run like hell. That would have been a run like hell moment for me personally.

[ricklev]

It completely disgusts me how the Thai "journalists" are explaining what happened according to what the murderer said.

It's depressing how many morons accept what they read as true.

[p_brownstone]

In over 40 years in Thailand I have never come close to a confrontation with a Taxi Driver, Street Vendor or anyone in a similar situation and it always amazes me that so many Farang get into such trouble.

It's not even a matter of differences between the cultures or whatever, it's common sense.

Think of the life these people lead - for example a Taxi Driver in Bangkok. Working 8 - 10 hours a day in Bangkok traffic to earn a profit of maybe Baht 300 - 500 a day, he lives in a small hut - a small apartment if he's lucky, probably with a wife and 3 or more children who have to survive on what he brings home, or he has had to leave them up-country and send money home every week or so. If he falls ill he does not eat, and he has no savings for medical expenses anyway, he can't take a day off for any reason without forfeiting his income for that day.

He faces this life 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year with absolutely no prospect of an improvement in his situation in the future.

One night he again picks up some Farang, say from a bar where the Farang has spent more money in 1 night than the Taxi Driver earns in a week, or takes the Farang home to his Apartment, the monthly rent for which is the Drivers income for 3 months.

Even an unintended slight can push him over the edge: And the bottom line is he has absolutely nothing to lose ...... if he attacks the (to him) arrogant Farang with a Machete or whatever, at most he will spend a few years or so in jail - so what? The crowded conditions there are probably not much different from the way he lives at home anyway, and he gets free food and lodging too.

If you remember nothing else, remember this .... he has nothing to lose, you do.

Patrick

[pedro01]

The channel 3 news reports police say 51 Baht is around the fare for that distance. Although who knows what the meter read with no witnesses. The news was one of the later news stories.

I would guess the route would be more likely the cause of the argument than the fare. I think 51 baht is cheap but to be around Sukhumvit 68 on a trip to 85 from central bang na would be torture, even on a weekend night.

[klubex99]

In over 40 years in Thailand I have never come close to a confrontation with a Taxi Driver, Street Vendor or anyone in a similar situation and it always amazes me that so many Farang get into such trouble.

It's not even a matter of differences between the cultures or whatever, it's common sense.

Think of the life these people lead - for example a Taxi Driver in Bangkok. Working 8 - 10 hours a day in Bangkok traffic to earn a profit of maybe Baht 300 - 500 a day, he lives in a small hut - a small apartment if he's lucky, probably with a wife and 3 or more children who have to survive on what he brings home, or he has had to leave them up-country and send money home every week or so. If he falls ill he does not eat, and he has no savings for medical expenses anyway, he can't take a day off for any reason without forfeiting his income for that day.

He faces this life 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year with absolutely no prospect of an improvement in his situation in the future.

One night he again picks up some Farang, say from a bar where the Farang has spent more money in 1 night than the Taxi Driver earns in a week, or takes the Farang home to his Apartment, the monthly rent for which is the Drivers income for 3 months.

Even an unintended slight can push him over the edge: And the bottom line is he has absolutely nothing to lose ...... if he attacks the (to him) arrogant Farang with a Machete or whatever, at most he will spend a few years or so in jail - so what? The crowded conditions there are probably not much different from the way he lives at home anyway, and he gets free food and lodging too.

If you remember nothing else, remember this .... he has nothing to lose, you do.

Patrick

This is probably the most ludicrous analysis of the incident I have read so far in 15 pages.

Its OK to paint a picture of sorrow for the taxi driver's life, but this is the life of millions of Thai people and a lot more in a much worse off situation than this evil thing of a human. So what you are saying is that you have lived here over 40 years and a BKK taxi driver is a portrait of despair. So how have you managed to survive 40 years and not been hacked to pieces by a 7/11 worker who makes a lot less, or a factory worker, or a farm worker?? Surely they are all on the brink of murder if your assessment is true?

[mikemac]

"Shouting and gestating because you are angry and frustrated is a normal way of venting you feelings"...........................................

For a nut-case perhaps.

Reading the comments on this forum I can fully understand why a lot of western people who live in Thailand avoid bars frequented by loud mouth rednecks. Some of the posters here remind me of Foghorn Leghorn and I think they come from the same country, perhaps the same farming background.

Those of you who are up in arms about the local taxi system should get off your high horse and take it up with Khun Thaksin, he is after all the patron saint of taxis.

[Timwin]

If you remember nothing else, remember this .... he has nothing to lose, you do.

Patrick

The unemployment rate in Thailand is currently 0.69 PERCENT! So for taxi drivers, they have to accept any two bit young criminal psycho who happens to walk in. These are people who can't get a job in most factories because of criminal records.

[mrtoad]

Life here is cheap - and the BIB have to accept responsibility for a lot of the BS that goes on. Last week, a coach driver, deliberately tried to run me off the road for the audacity of flashing my lights at him, as he attempted to pull out in front of me. I don't think for one moment, that the moron in the coach had any care as to the possibility of what he had done, luckily I guess we learn to drive properly in the UK.

Life is cheap around here, and until such a time as the BIB and the legal system works properly it will continue.

[pedro01]

"Shouting and gestating because you are angry and frustrated is a normal way of venting you feelings"...........................................

For a nut-case perhaps.

Reading the comments on this forum I can fully understand why a lot of western people who live in Thailand avoid bars frequented by loud mouth rednecks. Some of the posters here remind me of Foghorn Leghorn and I think they come from the same country, perhaps the same farming background.

Those of you who are up in arms about the local taxi system should get off your high horse and take it up with Khun Thaksin, he is after all the patron saint of taxis.

Sorry - did he say shouting & gestating? I sincerely doubt the American was gestating.

[bubblegum]

It's even on Dutch TV and newspapers now

[GAZZPA]

OK... I wanted to put a Thai perspective on this.

I went to Pantip.com which is the biggest forum for Thais and is the thaivisa equivalent. So that I can get a clear view of how Thais have reacted to this shocking news.

It is overwhelmingly in condemnation of the murder of Mr Pilkington. The anger towards not only the taxi driver, but also to the police who are once again being blamed by Thais for this outrage. Comments ranged from Pity Mr Pilkington, come to Thailand and had to die. One other stated he wants to go to Sauvanabhumi airport and get out of here. Another said that they won't get in a taxi ever again in BKK, and they are all bad people who are always armed and are always violent and part of a big organized gang. (Yes, the taxis here are run by criminals and you have to be affiliated to even get a job)..... remember these are the words of Thai people and not my own words.

After digging a bit deeper, my wife managed to unearth many reports of incidents involving armed and violent BKK taxi drivers. Not sure if I can post links to the videos. But I will anyway.

These are all very recent, there are so many and we only looked for a few minutes and these are the first ones we found. If you can read Thai, you should find many more.

VIDEO 1

Just last week, one taxi cuts up another on the road and is followed to the gas station by the aggrieved driver who gets out of his cab with a knife and attempts to get at the other driver, there was a passenger in the other car and the taxi kept his doors locked and managed to get away.

VIDEO 2

A young passenger was very drunk and taxi driver said if he wanted to vomit, then tell him to stop and vomit outside the cab. Guy told him to stop and got out and vomited in the street, then for some reason a scuffle breaks out and the driver reaches into his cab and take out a gun and shoots the kid 6 times.

VIDEO 3

Taxi driver gets overtaken by nutter taxi driver and beeps his horn. The nutter gets out of his cab and threatens the other driver with what looks to be a samurai sword, but the victim driver thinks it was a length of pipe.

I could post many more, but you get the idea.

It seems that Thai people are very pissed off at this incident as most of us are (minus a core of apologists that you always get on here). But the real underlying problem is that the police are reluctant to do anything about it, and all they really need to do is to have a crackdown and conduct an operation to search taxis randomly, and anyone carrying a weapon is whisked straight of to prison. But they choose to be reactive rather than proactive. Disarm the taxis and make a lot of examples of offenders with large prison sentences, only then will there start to be an improvement.

While they are at it, enforce the law that was introduced by THE GOVERNMENT saying ALL taxi drivers must accept a fare no matter what. Which was completely ignored by the taxi drivers because a few weeks after it came out, I was in BKK and me and the wife had to stand in the rain while we were refused by about 15 taxis in a row, and that was for around a 150B fare.

I have to say. I agree with most of the Thais.

This is the best post I have read following this through. It is an horrific incident and no matter what occurred Mr Pilkington did not deserve to die. It has been a little depressing reading a lot of the posts. It is good to read a balanced view from local people who are shocked and appalled by this and not waving flags as others might have you believe. I will not be generalizing that Thai people are full of resentment and hatred towards foreigners, your post supports that for me..

[brewsterbudgen]

It completely disgusts me how the Thai "journalists" are explaining what happened according to what the murderer said.

It's depressing how many morons accept what they read as true.

How should journalists report it then? Unfortunately the victim is not alive to give his side of the story. Some reports refer to witnesses, although they may be reporting what the police say they said.

Like it or not, the murderer has to be able to say what happened, from his perspective, and this should be reported. Why would journalists say he's lying when there is no evidence (yet) to support this?

No one, except two people, knows the truth and there is no need to call anyone a moron.

[Payboy]

It's even on Dutch TV and newspapers now

At this rate we should have a honest cabbie story rolled out by next week.

[Sunisalom]

It is an atrocious attack by a Thai. Many of us are highly embarassed, and we are very saddened. However, that is no reason to call all Thais, or taxi drivers for additional matter barbaric, machete wielding killers, as a result of one solitary bad incident.

Every country has its angered people, and emotionally uncontrolled people, in momentary out-bursts that end up with murder.

Please consider all other law abiding Thais, that many of you seem to want to gel into the same group as this disturbed man.

I hope for consolidation and, soon, closure for Mr. Pilkington's family; but please, stop writing dirt about Thais and Thailand as a generalisation.

Sunisa.

[mrtoad]

It is an atrocious attack by a Thai. Many of us are highly embarassed, and we are very saddened. However, that is no reason to call all Thais, or taxi drivers for additional matter barbaric, machete wielding killers, as a result of one solitary bad incident.

Every country has its angered people, and emotionally uncontrolled people, in momentary out-bursts that end up with murder.

Please consider all other law abiding Thais, that many of you seem to want to gel into the same group as this disturbed man.

I hope for consolidation and, soon, closure for Mr. Pilkington's family; but please, stop writing dirt about Thais and Thailand as a generalisation.

Sunisa.

I certainly think many of the Thais I know would be outraged by this incident - there are far more good, law abiding people in this country, then scum like this Taxi driver. Sadly though, Thailand reputation continues to get worse around the world, with incidents like this and other scams. It's not helped when the government is run by a convicted criminal fugitive, and has other thugs in positions of power.

[Morakot]

It's even on Dutch TV and newspapers now

At this rate we should have a honest cabbie story rolled out by next week.

Why wait til next week? TAT should send out a press release right away...

[brewsterbudgen]

It is an atrocious attack by a Thai. Many of us are highly embarassed, and we are very saddened. However, that is no reason to call all Thais, or taxi drivers for additional matter barbaric, machete wielding killers, as a result of one solitary bad incident.

Every country has its angered people, and emotionally uncontrolled people, in momentary out-bursts that end up with murder.

Please consider all other law abiding Thais, that many of you seem to want to gel into the same group as this disturbed man.

I hope for consolidation and, soon, closure for Mr. Pilkington's family; but please, stop writing dirt about Thais and Thailand as a generalisation.

Sunisa.

Well said. A voice of reason (and sanity).

[antfish]

It completely disgusts me how the Thai "journalists" are explaining what happened according to what the murderer said.

It's depressing how many morons accept what they read as true.

It is according to eyewitnesses. not just the taxi driver.

Disgusting that the Thai basher doesn't take the news reports into account because it doesn't fit their fantasy.