Farang got Stabbed

[ava15]

I too have been told today that the victim "deserved it" when I asked a thai family friend what they thought of the whole thing.

[Jingthing]

I too have been told today that the victim "deserved it" when I asked a thai family friend what they thought of the whole thing.

I am so not surprised. This is a sickening development but I guess most long term expats will also not be surprised. My concern is a big news event like this amplifies and aggravates a social phenom that is not a comfortable thing for westerners in Thailand. Sorry to say this, but if you have made a policy to AVOID CONFLICT with Thais at all costs, this might be a good time to apply that tactic even more.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm concerned this murderer is going to become a kind of folk hero among a segment of Thai people.

Certainly, many feel that westerners complain too much, are suspicious of being scammed even when they're not being scammed, and don't behave in the Thai way, whatever that is.

The coffee throwing, which is hard to believe, will no doubt be believed by many, whether there is any evidence other than the murderer's low value word. Just having coffee on his clothes if he does is meaningless, he can throw coffee on himself.

Bangkok taxi drivers have a political association with the red shirt movement, that is well known.

Many are of course armed for personal protection/business enforcement reasons but during red shirt flare ups, they can become part of a potential army.

I am concerned this news story and following trial are going to stir up some ugly anti-western xenophobia. Never far from the surface already of course.

My gut feeling is this is not just another murder case, but one that is going to represent much more to many people, Thai and western.

It really shouldn't, objectively it's just another murder case, but I think it WILL.

I consider that it will stir up loads more anti-Thai hysteria than any anti-western xenophobia.

This based on 16 pages (and counting) on this thread alone.

Time for farangs to get armed ?? Just kidding. I think the response to this incident is widespread due to the fact it started with something we ALL have done, which is to take a Bangkok taxi ride. The fact this simple event can turn into a murder by a wacko taxi driver is the shocking part.

I am sure that Thai people in general must be feeling a bit defensive now, so will be pretty quick to grab onto any story the taxi murderer weaves. " How come crazy farang die over 51 baht?? Som nam na !!" The Thai media may be part of the same concept, as when they published the false information the blade was 18 cm long, when any fool that watched the video can see it is a full on sword.

Edited July 8, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[bander]

some comments here makes me wonder how many farangs throwing water bottles on taxi drivers on a regular basis just because they don't like the fare.

taxi drivers are subjected to all kinds of abuse by their passengers and they never know what kind of crazy maniac enters their car. so they are constantly in a self defense mode and i cannot blame them if they have something like a machete in their car. its usually not to rob their customers but for self defense.

In this case it was not self defense but slaughter of an American, or maybe the BIB will find evidence of suicide

[EyesWideOpen]

I too have been told today that the victim "deserved it" when I asked a thai family friend what they thought of the whole thing.

An interest look at Thai culture...... There are some SERIOUS cracks beneath the surface if this viewpoint is widespread. Kill a customer because perhaps he shorted you 51 baht? Sure no problem.

Edited July 8, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[Jingthing]

I too have been told today that the victim "deserved it" when I asked a thai family friend what they thought of the whole thing.

An interest look at Thai culture...... There are some SERIOUS cracks beneath the surface if this viewpoint is widespread. Kill a customer because perhaps you shorted you 51 baht? Sure no problem.

Living in Pattaya the cracks are more like the San Andreas Fault!

[cosmont]

Well I hope the driver gets a maximum penality and does 20+ in Jail

Death penalty as exemple for the taxi driver community

RIP to the victim.

[antfish]

I'm concerned this murderer is going to become a kind of folk hero among a segment of Thai people.

Certainly, many feel that westerners complain too much, are suspicious of being scammed even when they're not being scammed, and don't behave in the Thai way, whatever that is.

The coffee throwing, which is hard to believe, will no doubt be believed by many, whether there is any evidence other than the murderer's low value word. Just having coffee on his clothes if he does is meaningless, he can throw coffee on himself.

Bangkok taxi drivers have a political association with the red shirt movement, that is well known.

Many are of course armed for personal protection/business enforcement reasons but during red shirt flare ups, they can become part of a potential army.

I am concerned this news story and following trial are going to stir up some ugly anti-western xenophobia. Never far from the surface already of course.

My gut feeling is this is not just another murder case, but one that is going to represent much more to many people, Thai and western.

It really shouldn't, objectively it's just another murder case, but I think it WILL.

I am afraid you are right.

Talked about this case yesterday with some Thai friends, 2 working in banks, 1 running a small business. Typical Thai middle class. And they all shocked me by saying, the farang got what he deserved, for not respecting the "Thai way"

When I looked like a questionmark, they explained, the only "face" for the taxidriver, was his role as a taxidriver. And with that questioned, he had nothing left to loose. My friends didn't even think, that his reaction was OTT.

If that is the general attitude of Thais, we all have a very steep learningcurve ahead of us !

Don't insult Thais, don't throw coffee in someones face, pay your taxi fare, don't attack the man with a machete in his hand.

Should be not difficult to learn.

Edited July 8, 2013 by antfish

[monkeycountry]

First part of video with the foreigner in the frame in slow motion:

At 25 seconds into the slow motion, as the Thai is stepping backward, is the foreigner following him?

It looks to me that ,even without any sort of weapon,the Farang is doing the attacking.That's asking for trouble!!!

If you are 51 years old, and a relatively young man threatens you with a machete, you have the following options.

You can turn around and run. However, with your back towards the guy with the machete, you are defenseless. Secondly, you are unlikely to be able to outrun the guy with the machete due to the age difference.

You can stand at a distance of 1-2 meters, or walk slowly backwards, making sure the guy with the machete is at perfect striking distance with his weapon, and wait for him to attack and kill you.

You can close the distance between you and the guy with the machete. This makes it difficult for the man with the machete to use his weapon effectively, and at the same time gives you a chance to disarm him.

If the Thai man had time to open his trunk and pull out a machete, he also had time to simply walk away instead, which rules out the self defence explanation. What happened here is simple - the Thai guy wanted revenge for something that had happened. An insult, a thrown cup of coffee, a non payment or whatever, so he decided to attack his customer with a machete. I suppose I am not the only expat who has often seen Thai taxi drivers attack their customers whenever there is a disagreement? And somehow the attacking taxi drivers always seem to be armed with some sort of weapon.

Edited July 8, 2013 by monkeycountry

[varun]

Tragic indeed.

+1 for buses in bad traffic & +2 for motorbike taxis

[zydeco]

To be fair for both parties, taxi driver was wrong for killing for just 51 Baht but you think he wants to go to jail for killing . He has to raise his family .

Thailand is the best taxis in the Asia, In Malaysia they have special button hidden under the driver seat and the fare like magic without the passanger knowledge.

I have been taking taxi many times same route with only 2-10 baht different, Thai people may be friendly but please don't provoked them.

In any nation learn to respect people and we will get same in return. Don't think farang are more superior. If you think taxi cheated you ask them to stop and pay fares then took a new one but for my 20 years here no such incident happen.

The taxis driver here very good and polite people.

Look at other Asean countries you will know Thailand still best and safetest country to lived in.

In Malaysia, I always establish the taxi fare before I get into the taxi. The very first day I was there, I was told to always talk to the driver and determine the fare beforehand. And ask somebody in the know (friend, hotel, etc.) how much the fare should be beforehand as well.

[lostmebike]

A lot Comment about what should happen, Tell me HAS there been an arrest and charge ? Becuse if not then I suggest serious action by the US government supported by other western governments

Don't want to get into an argument here but from what I've heard, the American threw some water or coffee over the driver after complaining how expensive the fair was.

With this in mind, do you really think any government would get involved? Sure the reaction was well and truly over board but some will say the 'farang' started the row and maybe he just got more than he bargained for.

It's one thing pissing and moaning about the fair, but throwing your drink in someone's face??? Many on this site would also resort to violence after that sort of provocation.

[Heng]

The taxi driver could have been a wacko, could have trying to scam or rob the passenger some how.... but at the same time I have seen plenty of foreigners who refuse to recognize that 'fighting words' are indeed that... an invitation for violence. IMO the victim would be alive and well and enjoying a nice lunch right now if he simply didn't say anything and walked off even without paying the fare.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Heng

[brewsterbudgen]

I'm concerned this murderer is going to become a kind of folk hero among a segment of Thai people.

Certainly, many feel that westerners complain too much, are suspicious of being scammed even when they're not being scammed, and don't behave in the Thai way, whatever that is.

The coffee throwing, which is hard to believe, will no doubt be believed by many, whether there is any evidence other than the murderer's low value word. Just having coffee on his clothes if he does is meaningless, he can throw coffee on himself.

Bangkok taxi drivers have a political association with the red shirt movement, that is well known.

Many are of course armed for personal protection/business enforcement reasons but during red shirt flare ups, they can become part of a potential army.

I am concerned this news story and following trial are going to stir up some ugly anti-western xenophobia. Never far from the surface already of course.

My gut feeling is this is not just another murder case, but one that is going to represent much more to many people, Thai and western.

It really shouldn't, objectively it's just another murder case, but I think it WILL.

I consider that it will stir up loads more anti-Thai hysteria than any anti-western xenophobia.

This based on 16 pages (and counting) on this thread alone.

Time for farangs to get armed ?? Just kidding. I think the response to this incident is widespread due to the fact it started with something we ALL have done, which is to take a Bangkok taxi ride. The fact this simple event can turn into a murder by a wacko taxi driver is the shocking part.

I am sure that Thai people in general must be feeling a bit defensive now, so will be pretty quick to grab onto any story the taxi murderer weaves. " How come crazy farang die over 51 baht?? Som nam na !!" The Thai media may be part of the same concept, as when they published the false information the blade was 18 cm long, when any fool that watched the video can see it is a full on sword.

You are probably right, but surely it is crazy for anyone to get angry about such a trifling sum? And, if what has been reported/witnessed is true, throwing something in someone's face, storming off without paying and then confronting the aggressor (rather than just walking away) is crazy in the extreme. For a tourist it is perhaps understandable, but not really for someone who lives here. It's a tragedy all round, but particularly for the victim's family.

Edited July 8, 2013 by brewsterbudgen

[Jingthing]

Please do not take the murderer's story of having coffee thrown at him at face value. His motivation at inventing a "justification" is obvious.

[brewsterbudgen]

To be fair for both parties, taxi driver was wrong for killing for just 51 Baht but you think he wants to go to jail for killing . He has to raise his family .

Thailand is the best taxis in the Asia, In Malaysia they have special button hidden under the driver seat and the fare like magic without the passanger knowledge.

I have been taking taxi many times same route with only 2-10 baht different, Thai people may be friendly but please don't provoked them.

In any nation learn to respect people and we will get same in return. Don't think farang are more superior. If you think taxi cheated you ask them to stop and pay fares then took a new one but for my 20 years here no such incident happen.

The taxis driver here very good and polite people.

Look at other Asean countries you will know Thailand still best and safetest country to lived in.

In Malaysia, I always establish the taxi fare before I get into the taxi. The very first day I was there, I was told to always talk to the driver and determine the fare beforehand. And ask somebody in the know (friend, hotel, etc.) how much the fare should be beforehand as well.

In Bangkok taxis have meters, so the fare depends on the traffic and the distance.

[cosmont]

I'm concerned this murderer is going to become a kind of folk hero among a segment of Thai people.

Certainly, many feel that westerners complain too much, are suspicious of being scammed even when they're not being scammed, and don't behave in the Thai way, whatever that is.

The coffee throwing, which is hard to believe, will no doubt be believed by many, whether there is any evidence other than the murderer's low value word. Just having coffee on his clothes if he does is meaningless, he can throw coffee on himself.

Bangkok taxi drivers have a political association with the red shirt movement, that is well known.

Many are of course armed for personal protection/business enforcement reasons but during red shirt flare ups, they can become part of a potential army.

I am concerned this news story and following trial are going to stir up some ugly anti-western xenophobia. Never far from the surface already of course.

My gut feeling is this is not just another murder case, but one that is going to represent much more to many people, Thai and western.

It really shouldn't, objectively it's just another murder case, but I think it WILL.

I am afraid you are right.

Talked about this case yesterday with some Thai friends, 2 working in banks, 1 running a small business. Typical Thai middle class. And they all shocked me by saying, the farang got what he deserved, for not respecting the "Thai way"

When I looked like a questionmark, they explained, the only "face" for the taxidriver, was his role as a taxidriver. And with that questioned, he had nothing left to loose. My friends didn't even think, that his reaction was OTT.

If that is the general attitude of Thais, we all have a very steep learningcurve ahead of us !

Don't insult Thais, don't throw coffee in someones face, pay your taxi fare, don't attack the man with a machete in his hand.

Should be not difficult to learn.

UNREALISTIC discuss between both of you. The question is not to insult Thai or anyone, those people who can say that someone desserve to die for 60 baht are stupid as I guess they won't accept that their kids, parents, friends die for such reason. The value of life is more than that !!!

[brewsterbudgen]

Please do not take the murderer's story of having coffee thrown at him at face value. His motivation at inventing a "justification" is obvious.

I read that there were witnesses. While the perpetrator and the witnesses might be lying, I have no reason to believe they are.

[Jingthing]

Is there any chance the title of this thread could be changed from

Farang got Stabbed

to

American Troy Pilkington murdered with machete by Bangkok taxi driver ???

Farang is NOT a polite word. How about considering the relatives of the murder victim?

Consider this another way.

If a THAI national was murdered by a machete in New York City, would the title say:

Oriental got stabbed ???

Edited July 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[brewsterbudgen]

I'm concerned this murderer is going to become a kind of folk hero among a segment of Thai people.

Certainly, many feel that westerners complain too much, are suspicious of being scammed even when they're not being scammed, and don't behave in the Thai way, whatever that is.

The coffee throwing, which is hard to believe, will no doubt be believed by many, whether there is any evidence other than the murderer's low value word. Just having coffee on his clothes if he does is meaningless, he can throw coffee on himself.

Bangkok taxi drivers have a political association with the red shirt movement, that is well known.

Many are of course armed for personal protection/business enforcement reasons but during red shirt flare ups, they can become part of a potential army.

I am concerned this news story and following trial are going to stir up some ugly anti-western xenophobia. Never far from the surface already of course.

My gut feeling is this is not just another murder case, but one that is going to represent much more to many people, Thai and western.

It really shouldn't, objectively it's just another murder case, but I think it WILL.

I am afraid you are right.

Talked about this case yesterday with some Thai friends, 2 working in banks, 1 running a small business. Typical Thai middle class. And they all shocked me by saying, the farang got what he deserved, for not respecting the "Thai way"

When I looked like a questionmark, they explained, the only "face" for the taxidriver, was his role as a taxidriver. And with that questioned, he had nothing left to loose. My friends didn't even think, that his reaction was OTT.

If that is the general attitude of Thais, we all have a very steep learningcurve ahead of us !

Don't insult Thais, don't throw coffee in someones face, pay your taxi fare, don't attack the man with a machete in his hand.

Should be not difficult to learn.

UNREALISTIC discuss between both of you. The question is not to insult Thai or anyone, those people who can say that someone desserve to die for 60 baht are stupid as I guess they won't accept that their kids, parents, friends die for such reason. The value of life is more than that !!!

I don't think anyone has said or even implied that he "deserved to die". However, it can equally be said that to get upset/angry about a 51 baht cab fare is foolish. He could have just paid and walked away.

[Jingthing]

Please do not take the murderer's story of having coffee thrown at him at face value. His motivation at inventing a "justification" is obvious.

I read that there were witnesses. While the perpetrator and the witnesses might be lying, I have no reason to believe they are.

Please cite any witness reports about the coffee throwing. First I heard of any such thing.

[EyesWideOpen]

A lot Comment about what should happen, Tell me HAS there been an arrest and charge ? Becuse if not then I suggest serious action by the US government supported by other western governments

Don't want to get into an argument here but from what I've heard, the American threw some water or coffee over the driver after complaining how expensive the fair was.

With this in mind, do you really think any government would get involved? Sure the reaction was well and truly over board but some will say the 'farang' started the row and maybe he just got more than he bargained for.

It's one thing pissing and moaning about the fair, but throwing your drink in someone's face??? Many on this site would also resort to violence after that sort of provocation.

I personally think this throwing water/coffee story is COMPLETE bullshit invented by the taxi murderer . Not a bad idea on his part, you can see how well it is playing to the Thai people... This guy was an executive for a major international firm. He spoke Thai, had been here three years, and I am sure he knew the ropes. The odds of him throwing something into the face of the taxi driver is .......zero.

I admire him greatly. The taxi guy came after him with a sword as is clearly shown in the video. Then he went inside the guard of the attacker which was the right thing to do. Unfortunately he was not able to disable the attacker, and allowed him to back up to effective sword range, then the blow to the head was struck.

Since all stories on TV are missing half the facts, it is important to use deductive reasoning. The side of the farang cannot be told, as he is dead. But from his social position , I am going to assume he would not have instigated violence by throwing something. On the other hand, we have the word of a Bangkok taxi driver, who have as a group have a long history of violence against passengers. I can't be bothered to look up the endless incidents, do so yourself if you are interested. So form your own conclusions.. :-)

Edited July 8, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[cosmont]

To be fair for both parties, taxi driver was wrong for killing for just 51 Baht but you think he wants to go to jail for killing . He has to raise his family .

Thailand is the best taxis in the Asia, In Malaysia they have special button hidden under the driver seat and the fare like magic without the passanger knowledge.

I have been taking taxi many times same route with only 2-10 baht different, Thai people may be friendly but please don't provoked them.

In any nation learn to respect people and we will get same in return. Don't think farang are more superior. If you think taxi cheated you ask them to stop and pay fares then took a new one but for my 20 years here no such incident happen.

The taxis driver here very good and polite people.

Look at other Asean countries you will know Thailand still best and safetest country to lived in.

In Malaysia, I always establish the taxi fare before I get into the taxi. The very first day I was there, I was told to always talk to the driver and determine the fare beforehand. And ask somebody in the know (friend, hotel, etc.) how much the fare should be beforehand as well.

In Bangkok taxis have meters, so the fare depends on the traffic and the distance.

That's correct if the taxi accept to use the meter and if the meter working correctly. By the way, the driver is able to take a longer way to reach your destination for make extra money...

[zydeco]

To be fair for both parties, taxi driver was wrong for killing for just 51 Baht but you think he wants to go to jail for killing . He has to raise his family .

Thailand is the best taxis in the Asia, In Malaysia they have special button hidden under the driver seat and the fare like magic without the passanger knowledge.

I have been taking taxi many times same route with only 2-10 baht different, Thai people may be friendly but please don't provoked them.

In any nation learn to respect people and we will get same in return. Don't think farang are more superior. If you think taxi cheated you ask them to stop and pay fares then took a new one but for my 20 years here no such incident happen.

The taxis driver here very good and polite people.

Look at other Asean countries you will know Thailand still best and safetest country to lived in.

In Malaysia, I always establish the taxi fare before I get into the taxi. The very first day I was there, I was told to always talk to the driver and determine the fare beforehand. And ask somebody in the know (friend, hotel, etc.) how much the fare should be beforehand as well.

In Bangkok taxis have meters, so the fare depends on the traffic and the distance.

Not always. I live in Phutthamonthon and 75 percent of the time I need to pay a flat rate to get over here from the other side of the river. The drivers just don't want to come over here. And the later it gets (and the more bags you have with you) the more expensive. Even when I do get a metered taxi, I always tack on 50 to 80 baht extra, because I know the drivers have a hard time getting a fare to go back. And there are times when I've agreed to 350 to 500 baht as a flat rate and the driver still gets angry and mutters about all the time it's costing him. You want to keep these guys happy when you're loaded down with shopping and don't want to get kicked out of the cab on Borom.

[Jingthing]

I personally think this throwing water/coffee story is COMPLETE bullshit invented by the taxi murderer . Not a bad idea on his part, you can see how well it is playing to the Thai people... This guy was an executive for a major international firm. He spoke Thai, had been here three years, and I am sure he knew the ropes. The odds of him throwing something into the face of the taxi driver is .......zero.

I admire him greatly. The taxi guy came after him with a sword as is clearly shown in the video. Then he went inside the guard of the attacker which was the right thing to do. Unfortunately he was not able to disable the attacker, and allowed him to back up to effective sword range, then the blow to the head was struck.

It lacks credibility without additional credible witnesses. Even if true, of course not justification for a murder by machete.

[brewsterbudgen]

Please do not take the murderer's story of having coffee thrown at him at face value. His motivation at inventing a "justification" is obvious.

I read that there were witnesses. While the perpetrator and the witnesses might be lying, I have no reason to believe they are.

Please cite any witness reports about the coffee throwing. First I heard of any such thing.

They are mentioned in the report in today's Bangkok Post (I can't post the link here due to the rules).

[mikemac]

So far on this thread we have one xenophobe and one racist scumbag, seems these tragic events concerning a local and a foreigner bring out the worst of us.

Makes me laugh when I read about western people taking offense at being referred to as a "farang". I would not mind betting that the same people have their own pet names for certain nationalities.

One of my best mates in Thailand comes from England and hates being referred to as a farang yet he calls Scottish people "porridge <deleted>" !

If you don't like the term "farang" either go home or put up with it, the Thai people are not going to remove a word from their vocabulary just to please you. And I bet you have some choice names for the locals.

[lostmebike]

Is there any chance the title of this thread could be changed from

Farang got Stabbed

to

American Troy Pilkington murdered with machete by Bangkok taxi driver ???

Farang is NOT a polite word. How about considering the relatives of the murder victim?

'Farang got stabbed'

So eloquently written do you think?

In regards to your earlier post, I totally agree we should know all the facts first and not believe just the taxi drivers story before judging but do you agree that arguing, maybe fighting with taxi drivers, is not the recommended thing to do here?

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking this guy would still be alive had he 'turned the other cheek', not easy I know if the attack was completely unprovoked and the driver really is a nutter though.

[Jingthing]

Please do not take the murderer's story of having coffee thrown at him at face value. His motivation at inventing a "justification" is obvious.

I read that there were witnesses. While the perpetrator and the witnesses might be lying, I have no reason to believe they are.

Please cite any witness reports about the coffee throwing. First I heard of any such thing.

They are mentioned in the report in today's Bangkok Post (I can't post the link here due to the rules).

I just checked that site and see NOTHING of the kind. Convenient to mention that source. Anyone else have an actual source of credible witnesses of the coffee throwing? I think many would like to see that.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[cosmont]

Talked about this case yesterday with some Thai friends, 2 working in banks, 1 running a small business. Typical Thai middle class. And they all shocked me by saying, the farang got what he deserved, for not respecting the "Thai way"

When I looked like a questionmark, they explained, the only "face" for the taxidriver, was his role as a taxidriver. And with that questioned, he had nothing left to loose. My friends didn't even think, that his reaction was OTT.

If that is the general attitude of Thais, we all have a very steep learningcurve ahead of us !

I don't think anyone has said or even implied that he "deserved to die". However, it can equally be said that to get upset/angry about a 51 baht cab fare is foolish. He could have just paid and walked away.

Read the first post