Thai Buddhist swastika. Why the confusion?

[dogsdinner]

Most farang get the Thai swastika confused with Nazi Germany. The Thai's faces completely opposite to Hitlers. The other difference is one is over 2500 years old and is applicable to religion while the other surfaced in the 1920's during the rise of the Nazi Party. The seconds prevalence only continues to be seen today due to social extremists like skin heads and the Aryan Brotherhood. (AB) Both represent completely different ideologies.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4071/4525274963_b7d8ea6e7c_z.jpg

[Chittychangchang]

There is no confusion.

Thailand is for the Thai's!

CCC

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As I stated in another post, swastikas comes in all directions, here is a small collection.

Note the Jewish swastika (published in a book circa 1700 AD) goes the same way as the NAZI swastika.

Edited July 9, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[greg71]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

[dogsdinner]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

[dogsdinner]

As I stated in another post, swastikas comes in all directions, here is a small collection.

Note the Jewish swastika (published in a book circa 1700 AD) goes the same way as the NAZI swastika.

kinds-of-swastica-sr2ji1-300x300.png

Thanks for the info. Whilst I appreciate that this symbol has been used for centuries, I wasn't aware of its variations. I had just grown tired of people giving Buddhism a hard time because of the destruction caused by its infamous use.

[Jingthing]

Most farang get the Thai swastika confused with Nazi Germany.

I don't agree.

Most "f-rang" can recognize an actual Nazi swastika quite easily.

I think this is a non-issue.

Buddhists aren't being given a hard time.

The controversy in Thailand with Nazi stuff is with ACTUAL Nazi/Hitler stuff.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[Beetlejuice]

As I stated in another post, swastikas comes in all directions, here is a small collection.

Note the Jewish swastika (published in a book circa 1700 AD) goes the same way as the NAZI swastika.

kinds-of-swastica-sr2ji1-300x300.png

I can tell the difference between a religious symbol and a Nazi symbol a mile off, in the dark and with one eye closed.

Then again, maybe it`s because I`ve had a bit of an education.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[bangkokstick]

What is the problem anyway ?

[kikoman]

I also have noted many Farang's commenting on the swastika displayed on Thai tee-shirt and other places and attributed it to Thai ignorance of western suffering.

Educated people should understand that sign has been used for centuries by different peoples over the history of man for religious purposes.

It is widely used by Native American tribes in the US, another people that suffered greatly by the arrival of westerners to their lands and the holocaust that reduced their population from 16 million to the current two million population today.

There is a more historical perception behind the meaning and use of the display of the Thai swastika than that of the Western perception and or experience.

Cheers:

[chrisinth]

It is also a recognized international chart symbol as below. Mariners aren't often confused when looking at a chart for a head-mark whether it is a temple or a panzer division..................

Edited July 10, 2013 by chrisinth

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As I stated in another post, swastikas comes in all directions, here is a small collection.

Note the Jewish swastika (published in a book circa 1700 AD) goes the same way as the NAZI swastika.

kinds-of-swastica-sr2ji1-300x300.png

I can tell the difference between a religious symbol and a Nazi symbol a mile off, in the dark and with one eye closed.

Then again, maybe it`s because I`ve had a bit of an education.

"a bit" being the operative part.

Go back and get yourself a comprehensive education.

[Berkshire]

I also have noted many Farang's commenting on the swastika displayed on Thai tee-shirt and other places and attributed it to Thai ignorance of western suffering.

Educated people should understand that sign has been used for centuries by different peoples over the history of man for religious purposes.

It is widely used by Native American tribes in the US, another people that suffered greatly by the arrival of westerners to their lands and the holocaust that reduced their population from 16 million to the current two million population today.

There is a more historical perception behind the meaning and use of the display of the Thai swastika than that of the Western perception and or experience.

Cheers:

Interesting points. This could be a rather educational thread. However, it won't deter the Thai haters from their rant. Frankly, I just don't care anymore. Fact is, it's not going to effect tourism one little bit...regardless of how many Hitler KFC's Thailand has.

[greg71]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

Edited July 10, 2013 by greg71

[Sydman]

I also have noted many Farang's commenting on the swastika displayed on Thai tee-shirt and other places and attributed it to Thai ignorance of western suffering.

 

Educated people should understand that sign has been used for centuries by different peoples over the history of man for religious purposes.

 

It is widely used by Native American tribes in the US, another people that suffered greatly by the arrival of westerners to their lands and the holocaust that reduced their population from 16 million to the current two million population today.

 

There is a more historical perception behind the meaning and use of the display of the Thai swastika than that of the Western perception and or experience.

 

Cheers:

So are you saying if I see a thai wearing a nazi tshirt with a picture of hitler on it, you still think its a symbol of thai Buddhism?

Most people from the west have a problem with the nazi symbols floating around, not the traditional religious symol

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

He lived on the Indian sub-continent, India as a country did not exist at that time, Nepal did not exist at that time.

The country (Shakya Republic) in which he was allegedly born, was half in what is now Nepal and half in what is now India.

The town he was allegedly born in (Lumphini) appears to have been in, what is now, the Nepal half.

Can you be born in a country that is yet to exist? I think NO

Can you be born in a sub-continant recently named? I think YES.

Edited July 10, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[KarenBravo]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Hindi is a language.

Hindu is the religion.

[Naam]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Hindi is a language.

Hindu is the religion.

Hindi is also used as an attribute when speaking Hindi, Punjabi, Hindustani or Urdu. therefore the word combination "Hindi symbol" is correct.

but as we are already hairsplitting... let the record show that "Hindu" is not a religion

Edited July 10, 2013 by Naam

[KarenBravo]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Hindi is a language.

Hindu is the religion.

Hindi is also used as an attribute when speaking Hindi, Punjabi, Hindustani or Urdu. therefore the word combination "Hindi symbol" is correct.

but as we are already hairsplitting... let the record show that "Hindu" is not a religion

Rubbish.

Punjabi and Urdu are completely different languages than Hindi, though, they are a Hindustani languages. Hindustani means from sub-continent.

Hindu is a religion.

The Swastika is originally from Sanskrit.

Edited July 10, 2013 by KarenBravo

[theblether]

The OP is kicking off because he started the thread with a false assertion.

It's clear to anyone that the Hindi symbol is nothing like the Nazi symbol, the colouration is different irrespective of the direction it faces. The thing that grates is seeing people wearing Nazi swastika T-shirts, as I have seen quite often here.

There seems to be a school of thought by too many Thai apologists as to why should they care as to how upsetting that symbol can be to people that lived through that dark period.

That's a ridiculous school of thought. It was only last week I believe that Thais were protesting outside the German Embassy as they saw photos of a Buddha figure lying on it's back in Germany. They will rise to the bait in a heartbeat when anything offends them, and they will react with extreme violence.

Just go out now and deface anyone of those millions of photos we see of the main man, or any Buddhist statue in front of a Thai and see what happens. Make sure you have your medical insurance up to date.

Oh the irony, they will go ballistic if you or I offend any of their symbols, but they expect to wear Nazi symbols in front of Westerners without comment?

The best you can say is that they don't know, that they are uneducated in these matters, and that in itself is a tragic reflection on how insular and ignorant this country can be. There's no excuse for this, and absolutely no excuse for apologists trying to defend it.

This is a flaw in Thai society.

[Soutpeel]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

You could be wrong...how do you know for certain, was he your next door neighbour or something ?.....you would have been better stating..it is believed...you are stating some thing as fact which it may or may not be....

Did Jesus come from Nazereth ?...was he born in Bethlehem ? are these facts ?

[charlieboz]

I also have noted many Farang's commenting on the swastika displayed on Thai tee-shirt and other places and attributed it to Thai ignorance of western suffering.

Educated people should understand that sign has been used for centuries by different peoples over the history of man for religious purposes.

It is widely used by Native American tribes in the US, another people that suffered greatly by the arrival of westerners to their lands and the holocaust that reduced their population from 16 million to the current two million population today.

There is a more historical perception behind the meaning and use of the display of the Thai swastika than that of the Western perception and or experience.

Cheers:

I have not seen anyone question the Hindu(i) swatiska; only the nazi one. If it is on a red background and tilted it's a nazi swatiska. And I have seen thai's wearing them out, not just articles online

[theblether]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

He lived on the Indian sub-continent, India as a country did not exist at that time, Nepal did not exist at that time.

The country (Shakya Republic) in which he was allegedly born, was half in what is now Nepal and half in what is now India.

The town he was allegedly born in (Lumphini) appears to have been in, what is now, the Nepal half.

Can you be born in a country that is yet to exist? I think NO

Can you be born in a sub-continant recently named? I think YES.

You're taking that too far, this is Thaivisa, not the Institute for Theological and Geographical Studies.

Greg71 is asserting the commonly held belief of where Buddha lived and died, he doesn't need to give us the preamble of "modern day India, modern day Nepal".

[kikoman]

I also have noted many Farang's commenting on the swastika displayed on Thai tee-shirt and other places and attributed it to Thai ignorance of western suffering.

Educated people should understand that sign has been used for centuries by different peoples over the history of man for religious purposes.

It is widely used by Native American tribes in the US, another people that suffered greatly by the arrival of westerners to their lands and the holocaust that reduced their population from 16 million to the current two million population today.

There is a more historical perception behind the meaning and use of the display of the Thai swastika than that of the Western perception and or experience.

Cheers:

So are you saying if I see a thai wearing a nazi tshirt with a picture of hitler on it, you still think its a symbol of thai Buddhism?

Most people from the west have a problem with the nazi symbols floating around, not the traditional religious symol

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I believe you need to read the OP's post, the subject is that of the swastika and the perception of some on the forum of why Thai wear them. No one but you has mentioned a picture of Hitler, Please do not attempt to put words in my mouth, Charlieboz also expressed his concern of those that he states wears these T-shirts in Thailand.

I also have seen shocking displays of people dressed in full Nazi uniforms marching under the Nazi flag, not on the streets of Thailand but on the streets of citie and towns in the U.S. also the Nazi symbols is used by the white power movement in the US as their guiding principals of their movement

Neo-Nazi movement has spread widely in Europe. Where it is much more visible than it would ever be in Thailand.

You should be posting about those actions not of people in Thailand who motives for wearing such symbols in a culture that you do not understand.

We may never know what Thai consider when they wear these T-shirts, but you do know what those Nazi's in the West stands for!

Cheers:

[Kan Win]

I have been enlighten by this thread and most of the posts.

Thank you all.

Win

[dogsdinner]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

He lived on the Indian sub-continent, India as a country did not exist at that time, Nepal did not exist at that time.

The country (Shakya Republic) in which he was allegedly born, was half in what is now Nepal and half in what is now India.

The town he was allegedly born in (Lumphini) appears to have been in, what is now, the Nepal half.

Can you be born in a country that is yet to exist? I think NO

Can you be born in a sub-continant recently named? I think YES.

Thank you for your post and clarifying. Whilst I was generalising, now knowing the actual facts makes it quite interesting Our friend seems to make a habit of trying finish on top. Thanks

[Kudel]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

A few years ago i had a discussion with five Thai woman in my home country friends of my ex about buddhism ,after asking them where buddhism originates from they all said Thailand and when i told them India they looked at me like i was an alien or something.

So its not only farang who are confused about buddhism.

[Ciaran Mc]

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

jesus wept ... where do these people come from ... why would "farangs" have no idea that the first Buddha came from India ?? where do u think they think he came from ??

and how can we "speak ignorantly of its use by the Nazi Party" .. did they not use the swastika ??

i think it is you who is confused and ignorant ... ANY swastikas i have seen here in Thailand have been the Nazi swastika ... Black in a White circle with a Red background ... where's the confusion there ??

[simple1]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

A few years ago i had a discussion with five Thai woman in my home country friends of my ex about buddhism ,after asking them where buddhism originates from they all said Thailand and when i told them India they looked at me like i was an alien or something.

So its not only farang who are confused about buddhism.

Theravada Buddhism as practiced in Thailand actually originates from Sri Lanka and adopted as the state religion in Thailand around 1300 AD

[Kudel]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

A few years ago i had a discussion with five Thai woman in my home country friends of my ex about buddhism ,after asking them where buddhism originates from they all said Thailand and when i told them India they looked at me like i was an alien or something.

So its not only farang who are confused about buddhism.

Theravada Buddhism as practiced in Thailand actually originates from Sri Lanka and adopted as the state religion in Thailand around 1300 AD

Yes al very nice ,but the discussion was about where it originates from.

Buddhism has many different forms......