My New Chainsaw Needs A License As It Is A 'Weapon' - is that correct?

[dsfbrit]

I bought myself a new small 12" chainsaw from Homeworks in Pattaya last month. It was working great and then it started leaking fuel.

I took it back to Homeworks within the 21 days warranty period (the Homeworks warranty period - there is also a one year warranty).

The leak can be fixed, but they said to exchange the saw would not be possible as from this month all chainsaw owners have to have a license as the saw is considered to be a dangerous weapon similar to a gun.

I did not argue with the guy in Homeworks, I just decided to come away and find out if this is true.

I have another 5 days left on the Homeworks warranty anyway, so have plenty of time to find out the truth of this story.

So any help would be appreciated.

Hey mods, I was planning on breaking the 'rules' here and posting in the farming and Pattaya forum as well - is that OK - as I only have 5 days to sort this out and I it is a bit of an odd one isn't it???

Thanks for your help.

[Gsxrnz]

It sounds like a totally ludicrous law.........so it's probably true.

[harrry]

I do not think it is because it is a weapon but because it is a chain saw. Chain saws can be used in illegal logging and those over a certain sixe have always been supposed to have a licence.

[Tywais]

Actually they have had to be licensed for a long time now and nothing to do with being a 'dangerous weapon' but due to the restrictions on cutting trees down. But now I see you said 12" and seem to remember there was a minimum size before the license requirement went into affect. Guess those farming machetes will be next to require licenses.

[Old Croc]

Actually they have had to be licensed for a long time now and nothing to do with being a 'dangerous weapon' but due to the restrictions on cutting trees down. But now I see you said 12" and seem to remember there was a minimum size before the license requirement went into affect. Guess those farming machetes will be next to require licenses.

It should be illegal for taxi drivers to carry them,

[dsfbrit]

Thanks for the quick responses.

I have been googling this subject as well as asking here and was surprised to learn there was a law at all!!!

I am thinking that the best place to get these answers for sure would be if I went to the place that issues these licenses. Then when I go back to Howeworks I can tell the guy he is right or wrong or that he is 'correct' but it is only for larger chainsaws or whatever.

So does anyone know where this office or department is in Pattaya so I can discuss this issue with them???

Once again thanks for the quick replies.

[dsfbrit]

I have done some more research on this and now know the situation pretty well.

I will post what happens over the next few days here as it may help someone else who is buying a chainsaw understand the rules.

It seems that Homeworks have sold me this chainsaw without following the law on this.

They are supposed to check that I have the required license BEFORE they sell a chainsaw of any size.

I got the number of the 'forestry department' at least that is what it roughly translates to (in Thai it is กรมป่าใม้ - grom-bpla-mai) and had a word with them.

Their phone number is 02-561-429-23 Ex 5206

They explained that about a year ago all purchasers of chainsaws had to apply for a chainsaw permit BEFORE they bought a chainsaw.

There was some kind of amnesty, so that anyone who had a chainsaw already could register it, but that amnesty ended several months ago.

So that when I went to Homeworks on the 25th June they should have asked for this permit before I bought the saw.

The lady at the Forestry Dept. explained that I cannot get a permit for this chainsaw now as it is not new and the amnesty period is over.

Howeworks explained that they cannot exchange the chainsaw under their 21 day guarantee as I don't

have a permit and the exchanged saw would be a NEW saw. Yes NOW they implement the laws correctly!!!

So even if I get the chainsaw back repaired, then I would be operating it illegally. What operating a chainsaw 'illegally' actually means I have no idea - like said the guy at Homeworks, who seems to be right about this up until now, says it is pretty serious????

Anyway, I will keep you up to date with what happens. Tomorrow I will go to Howeworks to get the chainsaw back. As the guy at Homeworks could not replace it then he has 'bodged' a repair to the leaking petrol tank. I won't accept it back unless it is legal, as I don't have a permit this trip seems like it will be a lot of fun!!!.

I will contact the local 'Forestry Department' to see what I should do. Maybe I can get a permit - if it is not too difficult to apply for - and then just push for a new chainsaw from Homeworks??

The girl in Bangkok said that as they had sold the chainsaw illegally I should just claim my money back.

I will try that, but I have a feeling it will not be that simple.

Fortunately the chainsaw only cost 4000 baht so I won't lose any sleep over this.

Mind you, I am sure that like most people on this forrum, I don't like being made a sucker of, so we shall see.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Edited July 10, 2013 by dsfbrit

[Gsxrnz]

I suspect the authorities would enforce the chainsaw licensing law about as actively as they enforce the driving licensing law. Just forget about it, don't even bother getting a licence as you'll probably get squeezed.

[kamalabob2]

The staff of the Buriram Forestry Department who issue the permits for a well also do the permit for a chain saw. They could not be more helpful in my personal experience. Mrs. Sirikun Artthawikun speaks and understands English very well. I walked into the Buriram Forestry office and the first thing they asked me was if I wanted a permit for a chain saw. The director of that Buriram Forestry office works was very pleasant when I obtained all the simple papers for a legal well. Frankly the owner of a local store who sells Chain Saws can guide you through the simple process of obtaining a permit for a chain saw. I watched how the Forestry Department staff registered a chain saw in Buriram. I'd be more inclined to purchase a tool such as a chain saw from a store that actually repairs the item at that store during and AFTER the warranty period. Thai permits and licenses are not a challenge in my experience. Certainly not costly.

[dsfbrit]

You are right of course, I don't suppose anyone cares less about enforcing a chainsaw license law, especially for a 12 inch saw that I just use in my garden.

I guess it was the sheer frustration of the Homeworks guy saying they could not replace the chainsaw as it had been bought 'illegally' - I mean talk about turning a situation on its head!!!!

Anyway I am going back there tomorrow and just stating that the Forestry Dept. have told me that in actual fact they sold it illegally - and they need to refund the money. Mind you if the saw no longer leaks then I may just take it and run!! Who needs all the hassle.

As for the Forestry Dept. in Chonburi, I suspect they are as helpful as the Forestry Dept in Buriram if I had known I needed a license before I bought the chainsaw, but they won't issue a license for a chainsaw already purchased - well I am told they won't. I will speak to them tomorrow and find out.

Once again, thanks for the feedback, I was really' wound up' when I got back from HomeWorks, not about the money involved, but the sheer madness of some of the logic here in Thailand - yes I know I should be used to it by now, but... !!!! - writing it down here in this forum was very therapeutic !!!

[Ticketmaster]

I have a used saw with a 20" bar that I brought over with me. Tried to get a license, they wouldn't do it. So I just use it around the farm. But I don't flaunt it, and cannot really help any neighbors with it the way I would like to.

If it was me that bought that saw, I would take it back to Homeworks and demand my money back, smiling all the while. Demand to speak with the top dog in the place. Tell him that if they don't take care of this immediately you will NOT go away -- NEVER. You will file formal complaints with the Department of Forestry and the Consumer Affairs Office. Tell him they made a mistake and you want your money back, period. If you are adamant and persist, I guarantee you will prevail. But if you are one of these mai bpen rai types, the get some vaseline and keep the saw with no license.

[Kiniyeow]

Has anyone found out if you need the permit for a chainsaw 12" or under? I heard that you do not need the permit for small ones, but haven't found out what the size limits are.

[Ticketmaster]

As I said my saw has a 20" bar; it should have a license. When I came to Thailand years ago, I looked into this and learned that a saw with a 12" or shorter bar did not need a license. A couple of months ago, my neighbor (Thai) came over and told me that the Royal Department of Forestry had a program whereby they were licensing everybody's saws and perhaps I could get in. He was able to license his old 12" saw. I asked him why he would license it when he did not need to. He said they changed the law and now all saws had to be licensed.

My wife took my saw data to the Dept. of Forestry to try to license it. The guy there said , "No way Jose, it has a 20" bar." The "amnesty" program he said was instituted for 12" saws because they had indeed changed the law to include 12" saws and they were trying to give all the 12" saw owners a "free chance" to comply with the law.

So, if you buy what the guy at Forestry, who was licensing 12" saws that day, says, and what my Thai neighbor said, yes, you do now need a license for a 12" saw. The amnesty program lapsed a couple of months ago. My wife went in on the last day. My neighbor was able to license his old 12" saw.

Kind of irks me that I want to comply with the law, and tried to, twice, but they won't let me.

So if you use that saw, you had better keep it at home. If you are in a place like Pattaya, you may be at high risk. Everybody knows the sound of a chainsaw, the sound carries very far, and it's pretty easy to "come have a look." I have no idea as to the penalty. I have heard things like "confiscation" and "deportation." I think confiscation and a fine are a real possibility. I suspect the guy who mentioned deportation was being a little extreme. I can't imagine that.

I live in a small rural village. I don't think I would dare use the saw in a crowded venue like Pattaya or Phuket that is filled with corrupt police and people that may turn you is just for the hell of it. If somebody blows the whistle on you, and you deny having the saw, the cops will probably search your house looking for it. But hey, you could be famous. Maybe they will do one of those televised reenactments with you cutting down a tree while a cop points at you before they take you off. It could be your 15 minutes fame!

For a 4,000 baht saw, I think you would be wise to have one that's licensed. If you can't get satisfaction from Homeworks, sell the saw to some Thai for whatever you can get and go buy a new one with a license (from somebody other than Homeworks!). The fine could be more than 4,000 baht, and I am quite sure that, at the very least, they will take your saw. Why take the risk for so little money?

Edited July 11, 2013 by Ticketmaster

[Kiniyeow]

So since I am in the market for one, do I have to go to the Dept. of Forestry first and get the permit to show the seller? Also, do I need to pick the exact model before I get the permit?

If so, where is the Dept. of Forestry office located at in Chiang Mai?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kannot]

Prove the new laws correct, go back to homeworks and hack the staff to pieces

[dsfbrit]

I am just of to Homeworks now. I really have not decided if I want to have a real battle with them or not over 4000 baht.

To answer the question about do you need a license for a chainsaw of any size, then the answer is yes you do and you must have it before you buy the saw.

The number I provided above is a Bangkok number, but they then gave me the number of the local Forestry Commission here in Chonburi. I suspect that if you call them they will have the number of the Chiang Mai Forestry Commission as well.

Oh well, off to Homeworlks, I will let you know how I get on.

ps I am having problems with my visa extension based on marriage as well - the Kor Ror 2 that I took down there to prove we are still married had an error in it, as the date of my previous divorce was wrong. They had entered it in wrong 11 years ago at the local Amphur - can I get it changed easily - no of course not - so I am having a 'great' week with Thailand bureaucracy!!!! I am just in the 'right' mood for this lot at Homeworks!!!

Edited July 12, 2013 by dsfbrit

[RedBullHorn]

May i add that Electrict chain saw of any length bar don't need any permit.

[dsfbrit]

My wife and I are just back from Homeworks. I speak Thai anyway, but took my wife along to make sure I understood exactly what was being said if there was any confusion. She was also there to just tap me on the leg if I 'raised' my voice or got angry!!!

Anyway they brought me the 'repaired' chainsaw and I said I could not accept it as it was illegal - like owning an illegal gun, as the other guy in Homeworks had put it a few days before when I took it in for repair.

The senior sales person was called who explained I could just get a permit for it - no problems.

I explained that was not the case and if she called the Forestry department she would realise that was incorrect.

This conversation went on for some time and in the end when she could see I was not going to accept the chainsaw, she agreed to go and discuss it with the line manager.

She wanted us to go and she would call later - yeah right!!. So we settled in for what I expected to be a long wait while she went off for discussions.

About 20 minutes later we received a call on my mobile from Homeworks in Bangkok, from a 'knowledgeable' guy who knew all about the law on chainsaws. He told me I could get the saw registered even though it was not new. We went through the 'no you cannot' , 'yes you can' routine for a while and then I suggested he called the Forestry Dept and then he would know he was wrong.

Naturally at the suggestion he was wrong he hung up.

When they could see we were not leaving the store until this was resolved, one of the managers came to see us. He explained the new law was for chainsaws over 12 inches only.

We went through the 'yes it is', 'no it isn't' routine again.

Strangely after about 5 minutes of this and me saying I was not going to take away a chainsaw and use it illegally, he just 'gave up'.

He offered me a 'coupon' for the amount of the chainsaw and I accepted. I have to buy a lot of paint from there soon anyway, so that was a reasonable offer.

After I had got the coupon, I went and had a look at the chainsaws. I noticed there was a new sign there that said in Thai and English that you could only buy a chainsaw if you had the permit from the Forestry Dept. All the chainsaws in there are 12 inches.

So they knew what I was saying was correct - it is quite amazing the amount of effort they will put into not making a refund when they have clearly made a mistake.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback here, it was a great help.

I am really pleased with the outcome as now I can get a permit and then go and buy a Stihl, as this chainsaw was cheap and nasty anyway - even the plastic on the starter chord had snapped in half, so not a bad outcome at all.

Edit:

So there is no confusion. If you want to buy and use a chainsaw in Thailand of ANY size you must obtain a permit BEFORE you buy the chainsaw.

If you currently own a chainsaw and it does not have a permit you CANNOT get one. There was an amnesty period, but is has expired.

I have no idea what the punishment is for using a chainsaw illegally or if it is even enforced, however that is the law.

If you do not think this is correct (IT IS) then call the Forestry Department on 0256142923x5206. They only speak Thai.

Edited July 12, 2013 by dsfbrit

[Ticketmaster]

Congratulations! You executed it perfectly. I have used this method many times and it works almost 100% of the time. Thais don't like the confrontation and when they realize you are just going to stand there like a buffalo and not say mai bpen rai, they don't know what to do but give in. Had you been tempted to leave and let her call when she suggested it instead of waiting, that would have been the last you heard of it. Good show!

It is incredible, though, what you have to go through sometimes. You walk away scratching your head wondering, "Why did that have to so difficult?"

You are also correct about the law. It's pretty frustrating. I mean, you look at the REASON for the law (ostensibly to prevent log poaching), you would think they would want all saws registered, including used ones. What possible reason could there be for denying registration to used saws? And even under the "amnesty," they were only registering used 12" saws. I could not get my 20" saw in under the amnesty.

By the way, when you go shopping for that Stihl, make sure you don't get a Chinese POS copy. There are a ton of them around.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Ticketmaster

[dsfbrit]

Yes thanks for your help and encouragement. I used to stand my ground on every occasion in the UK - as it had the 'Sales Of Goods Act'. Over here though, I sometimes have to decide if it is worth the effort!!!

In this case it was - I felt like I was being treated like a real mug. I think that is what got to me the most - -treating me as if I am totally stupid - they just wanted to give me any story to get rid of me.

As for the Stihl, I have actually done all the cutting I need for a while, so will wait a while before I try and find a Stihl that is 'real'!!!

Thanks again

[wilsonwan]

Congrats! This is really inspiring.

[Ticketmaster]

I have had that sort of treatment quite often. One thing that happens though, is that you get a reputation for not backing down. My guess is that if you have a similar need at Homeworks, they won't run you around as much.

Believe it or not, Thailand has a wonderful set of consumer protection laws and a Department of Consumer Affairs. It's just that everybody ignores the law.

[Cara Cicatriz]

Hey dsfbrit, I don't know about this law but I sent you a private message would you have a look mate! Much appreciated!

Cheers,

-= CC =-

[JaiLai]

Yes thanks for your help and encouragement. I used to stand my ground on every occasion in the UK - as it had the 'Sales Of Goods Act'. Over here though, I sometimes have to decide if it is worth the effort!!!

In this case it was - I felt like I was being treated like a real mug. I think that is what got to me the most - -treating me as if I am totally stupid - they just wanted to give me any story to get rid of me.

As for the Stihl, I have actually done all the cutting I need for a while, so will wait a while before I try and find a Stihl that is 'real'!!!

Thanks again

How do you determine if the 'Stihl' is original?

[cooked]

This law will blow over I think. When you buy a car nobody asks to see your driving permit....

I have been doing all sorts of stuff around my village with my Husqvarna saws and I can't see anyone denouncing me to the law as I have helped many people.

[Kiniyeow]

I've checked several DIY stores here in Chiang Mai today and they all said the same thing, electric chainsaws of any size do NOT need a permit, only gas ones. Since I'm just using it around the yard, an electric one will suit me just fine.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[dsfbrit]

That is interesting, I never really considered buying an electric chainsaw. Are they any good??? I looked on YouTube at quite a few videos of chainsaws before I bought one and the electric chainsaw seemed to struggle a bit compared to the gas/petrol ones.

My little chainsaw was only 1.8 HP and coped reasonably well with the thicker (over 12" diameter) limbs it had to cut, I am not so sure if it had been even a little bit less powerful that it would have coped very well. It had no problems with limbs up to 6" in diameter though - even very hard wood was no problem. Mind you, it seemed to need sharpening a lot !!!

Now I have to consider what Jai Lai said - how do I determine a Stihl is a real Stihl??? Oh well, a problem for a later date as I have done all the cutting I need to do for a while so will look into getting a new chainsaw later in the year.

[Ticketmaster]

That is interesting, I never really considered buying an electric chainsaw. Are they any good??? I looked on YouTube at quite a few videos of chainsaws before I bought one and the electric chainsaw seemed to struggle a bit compared to the gas/petrol ones.

My little chainsaw was only 1.8 HP and coped reasonably well with the thicker (over 12" diameter) limbs it had to cut, I am not so sure if it had been even a little bit less powerful that it would have coped very well. It had no problems with limbs up to 6" in diameter though - even very hard wood was no problem. Mind you, it seemed to need sharpening a lot !!!

Now I have to consider what Jai Lai said - how do I determine a Stihl is a real Stihl??? Oh well, a problem for a later date as I have done all the cutting I need to do for a while so will look into getting a new chainsaw later in the year.

See this link: http://www.stihl.co.uk/stihl-warns-about-imitations.aspx There is an e-mail address in there. Get the serial number off the saw you want to buy and email it to Stihl to check if it is authentic. If there is no serial number on the saw, then you KNOW its counterfeit.

[Kiniyeow]

Well, spent most of the day yesterday looking for a electric chain saw, but couldn't find one available anywhere. I went to Global House, Home Mart, Home Pro and numerous mom and pop tool shops here in Chiang Mai and nada. I'm not sure why they are so scarce here, buy I remember there was one I saw at Global House before. When I went yesterday, they said the just sold the last one this morning and don't know if they will be getting any more in. Figures.

I don't really want a gas one as I would not use it often enough to justify it's cost and maintenance. Guess I'll just have to keep looking at every tool shop I see and hope for the best.

[Ticketmaster]

I have (in the past) seen these electric chainsaws all over the place. Perhaps with the new law requiring licenses on 12" gas saws, there has been a run on the electric saws?