How to end corruption in Thailand

[Gone]

Now my degree is in Oil & Gas and NOT in Political Science nor do I know much about Political Infrastructure BUT I do know that not just in Thailand but any developing country corruption is due to wages, Education and lifestyle etc.

Now, Thailand might have been a cheap place to visit or live in years ago but I think in the past 10 years it has developed a lot like Mexico whereas Mexico also used to be a cheap place to live or visit but with that came the “C” word…Corruption.

Some countries like Laos, Cambodia etc. that do not have a big infrastructure or “barter” options such as Thailand has to offer with Tourism, Rice, Import/Export of items etc.

What I am saying is that here in Thailand the Police get paid around 8000 baht per month (on district average) and have to buy their own Motorcycles, guns etc. Their entire families (if in a City) have to live in 1,500 baht per month rooms and live rather cheap so to speak. In order to rise their standards of living they have to turn to corruption. Now a days where there is so many smart phones and cameras with video etc. they are now turning toward Internet Corruption and getting their money this way however the normal every day corruption for sure still exists.

Let’s look at Thai teachers who put in an average of around 72 hours per week for an average wage of 8000 baht per month work very hard but again live a very low lifestyle whereas a Foreign teacher with no degree and no experience can make 30k+ per month. This certainly is not fair to the Thais.

Now as said I am not a Political Scientist and I know the Government cannot just turn on a tap and let the money flow so here is where I am asking the experts here what you think.

Thailand I think needs to give better salaries and a better style of life to ALL people including and especially the Farmers. Thailand has that International “Barter Power” whereas they have everything that a country needs to become rich I think.

Again this is the “What came first, the chicken or the egg” scenario. In order to stop corruption in this Kingdom people need more money and a better lifestyle however in order to get this you must first stop corruption.

Now, topic is open for discussion lol. What are YOUR thoughts?

PS: I am now right in the middle of this corruption so I have first hand experience. Also I know that sometimes corruption is in our favor (as visitors to Thailand) and other times against us.

[Sparkles]

Gone I totally agree with your aspirations but 2 major surveys on corruption issues have been undertaken by leading Bangkok Universities this past 12 months and more than 60% of the respondents didn't have a problem with corruption as long as it was not completely over the top,with that sort of mind set and total disinterest from successive Governments, whose many members probably stand to gain, what chance do you have.

Throw in the fact that the rich avoid paying tax with impunity and its not difficult to see the divide between rich and poor increasing.

Just look at the current rice pledging scheme.Already a few have been caught out in what is probably just the tip of the iceberg.

As foreigners we don't exactly help. I wager there are very few here who have not contributed in some small way to the practice be it a traffic offence or sliding a few baht under the paper work at the land office to get it processed quickly.I was at the CM Immigration office a few weeks ago when a fellow Australian tried bribing his way out of paying a 2,000 baht late reporting fee. His offer was rejected possibly as there were many witnesses.

There is no easy solution .Its up to Thai's to stand up and it won't happen

[Utley]

Thailand is not a capitalistic democracy; it is a feudalist monarchy. Feudalism by its very nature leads to corruption. It is not something that you can change; it is cause and effect. You will have better luck trying to make water run up hill than you will trying to eliminate corruption from a society based on feudalism.

[kiniyow]

I don't see Corruption so much in the Teacher Ranks but the BIB is totally a horse of a different color...

[tingtongfarang]

I agree with you to a point but it,s necessary to know and understand other asian countries which faced a similar problem and how they went about ending corruption among police and other government officials which according to the transparency international list became some of the cleanest in the world,

Most government officials in thailand be they police, land office, customs and excise ect knew from the go that to survive they would have to be in some cases hardened criminals....to a large extent these positions attract mainly the criminal element and most have to pay to get there,

The subject of police reform has been talked many times over the years but it was only talk all knowing it would not be possible....ie you cant convert hardened criminals to upstanding citizens by giving them------bht pm more,

I truly vomit when i read from posters who brag about the fact they only had to hand over 200-500 bht to be on their way...i,m here since 10 years and never paid...never will!

Edited July 11, 2013 by tingtongfarang

[tingtongfarang]

I don't see Corruption so much in the Teacher Ranks but the BIB is totally a horse of a different color...

Corruption exists in schools also...both private and government, Its one of the first lessons kids get here.

[Baerboxer]

If someone in Oil & Gas industry provides a poor service, or a supplier provides shoddy goods, would you suggest paying more would increase the quality and service?

Eradicating poverty proves a very difficult challenge - look at the slow progress being made.

Corruption is based on greed and power as well as exploiting the imporverished. Increasing salaries won't in itself prevent, reduce or discourage corruption. It requires massive social change from top to bottom. The top here will do all they can to prolong the status quo. Corruption enriches them and they are above and beyond the law. Why would they want change?

Capitalism and communism both suffer from corruption and recent research indicated corruption is growing through out the world. Unfortunately in the consumerist self interested global environment not much value is being placed on honesty, ethics and selfless service.

[bangkokstick]

I agree with the survey, I have no problem with corruption as most of foreigners living here.

Seems like some others should go home :-)

[saroq]

Thailand is not a capitalistic democracy; it is a feudalist monarchy. Feudalism by its very nature leads to corruption. It is not something that you can change; it is cause and effect. You will have better luck trying to make water run up hill than you will trying to eliminate corruption from a society based on feudalism.

Have a close look at home. Our capitalistic democracies are being turned into feudal societies as the middle class is dismantled by our own corrupt politicians and corporations that put profits ahead of people and social responsibilities. Societies have a much harder time being free of crime and corruption when large sections of that society are not paid a living wage.

[saroq]

"Let’s look at Thai teachers who put in an average of around 72 hours per week for an average wage of 8000 baht per month work very hard but again live a very low lifestyle whereas a Foreign teacher with no degree and no experience can make 30k+ per month. This certainly is not fair to the Thais."

Would you work for 30K / month? It's supply and demand. If Thai schools could get foreigner to work here for 8K / month they would.

[thrilled]

Paying is just part of life in Thailand and many other countries.Don't know if it can change.Since 1971 I have gotten use to it.

[Utley]

Thailand is not a capitalistic democracy; it is a feudalist monarchy. Feudalism by its very nature leads to corruption. It is not something that you can change; it is cause and effect. You will have better luck trying to make water run up hill than you will trying to eliminate corruption from a society based on feudalism.

Have a close look at home. Our capitalistic democracies are being turned into feudal societies as the middle class is dismantled by our own corrupt politicians and corporations that put profits ahead of people and social responsibilities. Societies have a much harder time being free of crime and corruption when large sections of that society are not paid a living wage.

Just where do you expect the cash to pay for a "living wage" to come from? If productivity goes up, yes wages can go up so that everyone shares in the prosperity (it's called capitalism). But when wages go up through government intervention, prices go up in tandem in order to fund the higher wages - so the consumer of the product ends up funding the higher wage.

[Gone]

If someone in Oil & Gas industry provides a poor service, or a supplier provides shoddy goods, would you suggest paying more would increase the quality and service?

Eradicating poverty proves a very difficult challenge - look at the slow progress being made.

Corruption is based on greed and power as well as exploiting the imporverished. Increasing salaries won't in itself prevent, reduce or discourage corruption. It requires massive social change from top to bottom. The top here will do all they can to prolong the status quo. Corruption enriches them and they are above and beyond the law. Why would they want change?

Capitalism and communism both suffer from corruption and recent research indicated corruption is growing through out the world. Unfortunately in the consumerist self interested global environment not much value is being placed on honesty, ethics and selfless service.

If someone in Oi

[Gone]

That was weird. I replied quoting a post but my words never made it through.

What I said was referring to Baerboxer's post.

Yes it was proven in Canada that when the Oil Companies such as: Syncrude, Suncor, Shell, CNRL etc. hired foreign workers for less salaries they had nothing but problems and fatalities (Chinese workers) and oil spills etc.

They did this because they want to avoid paying Union wages which are very high but in the long run it cost them more.

There has been some great replies to my OP here and I really believe that ending (or at least down-sizing) corruption must start with Education and of course will not be solved over night.

Education is power and I believe that the Government does not want their citizens to be educated or their rebellious actions would have better strategies and be more powerful and might even end up voting in a proper government one day.

[Utley]

“We have some very big ideas, concrete ones, to make growth more inclusive,” Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt said last month in Bangkok.

Forgotten in this ambitious building boom, though, is any investment in social infrastructure. It’s even more important to invest billions of dollars in education and in training to improve the quality of the labor force and raise productivity so that Thailand can keep up in the world’s most dynamic region. The country lags not just at the tertiary level, but also at the primary and secondary phases of the education process. Like several other countries in the region, Thailand’s focus on rote learning gives short shrift to creative and critical thinking and English proficiency.

Thailand Needs to Invest in People, Not Rice: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-11/thailand-need-to-invest-in-people-not-rice.html

Edited July 13, 2013 by Utley