Zimmerman not guilty in Trayvon Martin death: Florida jury

[F430murci]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Haha, I just looked at your poll. It was from June before public or I even knew the facts. Lamo attempt. Haha. . .

Here is a poll I actually would grant some credence to:

Guilty of Second Degree ------- 18%

Guilty of manslaughter ---------- 15.6%

Not guilty ---------------------------- 66.4%

http://blogs.lawyers.com/2013/07/george-zimmerman-guilty-or-not-poll/

Edited July 15, 2013 by F430murci

[Johpa]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Unfortunately, most people including most on here are absolutely clueless about the facts of the case and what the law actually is . . .

And that is because they watch too much coprorate garbage on CNN, although Mark Garagos was decent in his commentary.

[Publicus]

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

Oh please, cut the bleeding heart routine.

They train you to fire center mass. That's the chest area. Zimmerman may have sucked in his MMA training but he obviously took his firearm training seriously.

Zimmerman defended himself against someone attacking him. The jury has acquitted. That's that.

So there absolutely is no possibility a jury anywhere in the United States, at any time, in any case, could conclude an erroneous verdict.

It's common knowledge that the opposite is a normal part of the jury system, i.e., an innocent person is found guilty by a conscientious jury of peers. The Innocence Project, to cite one high profile organization, has documentation of this from here to the moon. Worse, innocents have been executed by the state.

However, it is extraordinarily difficult to produce instances in which a guilty defendant was set free by a conscientious jury of peers. There is no "Guilty Project" or an equivalent I can think of or find in research.

Yet any reasonable person will know that this has occurred, i.e., a guilty defendant has been found innocent by a conscientious jury of peers - or in a bench trial.

Philosophically, it is generally agreed that it's better that one guilty person go free than an innocent one be wrongly found guilty. Worse, found guilty then executed.

Concretely, however, it is difficult to accept that a jury can be wrong, that juries have been wrong. In the reality of the moment, it is difficult to accept that an innocent unarmed boy can be targeted by an armed character who is on the margin of society and be killed by the person in a gross instance of the excessive use of force.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Publicus

[mopar71]

Here's an interesting take...

Rally In Akron, Mississppi For Trayvon Martin

Edited July 15, 2013 by mopar71

[gl555]

The problem with people like you is the fact that, in your little minds, the jury is always wrong when the verdict doesn't go your way. How sad.

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

Oh please, cut the bleeding heart routine.

They train you to fire center mass. That's the chest area. Zimmerman may have sucked in his MMA training but he obviously took his firearm training seriously.

Zimmerman defended himself against someone attacking him. The jury has acquitted. That's that.

So there absolutely is no possibility a jury anywhere in the United States, at any time, in any case, could conclude an erroneous verdict.

It's common knowledge that the opposite is a normal part of the jury system, i.e., an innocent person is found guilty by a conscientious jury of peers. The Innocence Project, to cite one high profile organization, has documentation of this from here to the moon. Worse, innocents have been executed by the state.

However, it is extraordinarily difficult to produce instances in which a guilty defendant was set free by a conscientious jury of peers. There is no "Guilty Project" or an equivalent I can think of or find in research.

Yet any reasonable person will know that this has occurred, i.e., a guilty defendant has been found innocent by a conscientious jury of peers - or in a bench trial.

Philosophically, it is generally agreed that it's better that one guilty person go free than an innocent one be wrongly found guilty. Worse, found guilty then executed.

Concretely, however, it is difficult to accept that a jury can be wrong, that juries have been wrong. In the reality of the moment, it is difficult to accept that an innocent unarmed boy can be targeted by an armed character who is on the margin of society and be killed by the person in a gross instance of the excessive use of force.

[Publicus]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Haha, I just looked at your poll. It was from June before public or I even knew the facts. Lamo attempt. Haha. . .

Here is a poll I actually would grant some credence to:

Guilty of Second Degree ------- 18%

Guilty of manslaughter ---------- 15.6%

Not guilty ---------------------------- 66.4%

http://blogs.lawyers.com/2013/07/george-zimmerman-guilty-or-not-poll/

I state in my post the CNN survey was taken before the trial began and was released on the Monday of the week the trial began.

Perhaps in your dismissive haste you might want now to pause for a least a moment to read the text of the post before jumping to erroneous conclusions and to make undeserved derogatory comments.

What do you call the disappearance of 5000 lawyers?

A good start.

[allalong]

George zimmerman will have to have either a face job,relocate,new identity,wear stab and bullet proof vest or maybe all of them

[Publicus]

And yes I was being patronizing,

You're very good at playing dumb - I mean about my statement and the army infantry. To be sure you're clear, it's this poster who was in the army infantry and previously in the ROTC. So perhaps my statement to you about being more careful concerning who you try to patronize when you don't know the person is now a bit more clear to you. However, I'm still not sure you comprehend as you appear to be lost in the matter..

Meanwhile,

Timeline: Zimmerman’s reports involving suspicious activity in neighborhood

On August 4, 2011, Zimmerman submitted his first report to the Sanford Police Department about a suspicious black male walking around in the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood, where he served as a neighborhood watch captain.

The next day, Zimmerman called the department again, reporting another suspicious black male lurking in the area.

On October 6 of that year, Zimmerman called in a third report, again alerting authorities to a suspicious black male.

On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman called in a similar report to the department.

“According to all records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat at Twins Lakes neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects in the matter,” the Sanford Police Department said in a statement after Martin was killed.

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Playing dumb is one thing. Patronizing and proud and pleased of it is another.

I call it impudence.

You however are forgiven.

[Publicus]

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

Oh please, cut the bleeding heart routine.

They train you to fire center mass. That's the chest area. Zimmerman may have sucked in his MMA training but he obviously took his firearm training seriously.

Zimmerman defended himself against someone attacking him. The jury has acquitted. That's that.

The army infantry teaches highly effectively how to shoot to kill the enemy, thank you, and the many ways and means by which to do it. So be more careful about patronizing people you don't know.

Zimmerman was the initiator. He had a gun. He got out of the car contrary to instructions from the 911 advisor. Zimmerman targeted a guy, Trayvon, who was engaged only in innocent behavior. Trayvon was provoked by Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the gunman in this travesty.

Trayvon was unarmed and had no history involving firearms, no police record of violence., no record of martial training, i.e., a person who'd just turned 17.

This verdict is something white America needs to understand, if it doesn't understand or comprehend it already. What's clear is that it's open season against young black males engaged only in innocent behavior. I think white Americans know that's what this verdict says and means, and likes it.

Actually, this is not correct based on the only evidence presented.

The only version anyone has or only evidence is that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin (corroborated by how 911 call went down). Martin could have fled a short distance to Brandy's or wherever, but Martin apparently turned around, approached and confronted Zimmerman. He punched Zimmerman in the nose. Knocked him to the ground. Pounded his head into the cement and even told him Zimmerman he was about to die before they both struggled for the gun and Zimmerman shot him.

Now you are entitled to not believe that, but your version is based purely on fantasy and emotion.

Open season on black youths, seriously, Dude you get problems if that is how you see it.

Failure to see the total situation and circumstance. Additionally, dismissive of the nature and the character of the two principals involved.

Failure to consider that a dead person provides no witness except that he was unarmed and that his killer was armed and set out after him.

Failure to recognize that there is a total picture and to see it.

[Publicus]

Zimmerman was the initiator. He had a gun. He got out of the car contrary to instructions from the 911 advisor. Zimmerman targeted a guy, Trayvon, who was engaged only in innocent behavior. Trayvon was minding his own business. Trayvon was provoked by Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the gunman in this travesty.

Trayvon was unarmed and had no history involving firearms, no police record of violence, no arrest record, no record of martial training, was not at all known to be an aggressor, had no history as a troubled youth or adolescent. Trayvon simply was a person who'd just turned 17.

Zimmerman was following Martin, not necessarily "targeting" him. Whether Zimmerman followed instructions from the 911 operator or not, is not relevent. Whether Trayvon was just an innocent kid out for some skittles or a gangbanger, or whether he was 17 or 57, is not relevant. Whether Zimmerman is a flaming racist or just a guy concerned about his neighborhood is also not relevant. There were no witnesses to whether Zimmerman provoked Martin or, the opposite, Martin provoked Zimmerman. This is the great unknowable in this legal matter. They both had a right to be there. This was a criminal legal case to be adjudicated by the jury based upon knowable facts and not suppositions and assumptions. And the knowable facts supported a decision of not guilty based upon a claim of self-defense. And unless new evidence were to appear, the same conclusion, at least I believe, would be reached in any further civil trial.

Your post fails to recognize how the entire situation originated. Origination is a vital factor in anything - it is the first question most of us ask.

[F430murci]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Haha, I just looked at your poll. It was from June before public or I even knew the facts. Lamo attempt. Haha. . .

Here is a poll I actually would grant some credence to:

Guilty of Second Degree ------- 18%

Guilty of manslaughter ---------- 15.6%

Not guilty ---------------------------- 66.4%

http://blogs.lawyers.com/2013/07/george-zimmerman-guilty-or-not-poll/

I state in my post the CNN survey was taken before the trial began and was released on the Monday of the week the trial began.

Perhaps in your dismissive haste you might want now to pause for a least a moment to read the text of the post before jumping to erroneous conclusions and to make undeserved derogatory comments.

What do you call the disappearance of 5000 lawyers?

A good start.

Haha, I guess the huge headlines stating present tense diverted my attention. So that begs the question, why not post a current poll . . . Sketchy dude and you are saying lawyers are sketchy . . .

[Publicus]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Unfortunately, most people including most on here are absolutely clueless about the facts of the case and what the law actually is . . .

A patronizing and contemptuous post.

High handedly dismissive of what you don't like or respect, i.e., public opinion.

Public opinion takes into material consideration the origin of the time, place, circumstance, and of the nature and character of the two principals involved.

You utterly fail to do this.

[Publicus]

Another reason I don't buy Martin was this vulnerable child insinuation is because, I have heard and wanted to find some confirmation, is that 17 year olds commit a disproportionately amount of the violents crimes in the US.

Article addressing a reason why 17 year olds should be tried as adults

"is important because offenders aged 16-24 account for 37 percent of arrests for violent crime in the United States and North Carolina. Data show that serious violent crime peaks during the late teenage years and declines steadily as individuals move into their late

20s. Moreover, although 15- to 19-year-olds represent approximately seven percent of the total US population, they account for more than 20 percent of all violent crimes in the United States."

http://www.familyimpactseminars.org/s_ncfis03c01.pdf

Sorry, but based on what I have heard, and the jury did not hear, Martin was a 6'2" wannabe thug with a bad attitude. He was not some innocent 12 year old child skipping home with a hand full of skittles.

Trayvon had no history with guns, no history of violence, no history of gang membership or association, no history of being an aggressive personality, was a respectable student in school with a very good attendance record, wanted to be a pilot.

Given that you want to impugn the character and the reputation of the deceased, let's get to know the live George Zimmerman better:

Woman Says George Zimmerman Molested Her For More Than A Decade

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html

A woman with close ties to George Zimmerman and his family told investigators that members of Zimmerman’s family were boastfully proud racists and that for more than a decade Zimmerman sexually molested her.

“It started when I was six,” the woman told investigators during an interview on the morning of March 20. “We’d all lay in front of the TV and we had pillows and blankets and he would reach under the blankets and try to do things and I would try to push him off but he was bigger and stronger and older,” the woman said, audibly weeping in the Florida State Attorney's Office interview recording released Monday. “It was in front of everybody and I don’t know how I didn’t say anything, I just didn’t know any better.”

The woman, identified in various reports and in taped interviews with investigators as witness 9, said that from the age of six to 19 Zimmerman repeatedly fondled her, at times penetrating her vagina with his finger.

A number of news sources have reported that the woman is a relative of the Zimmerman family, though her exact relationship to Zimmerman was redacted from the interview recording. Zimmerman's legal team, in a statement released later Monday night, identified the woman as a cousin.

“We’ve known about this since the beginning but out of respect to her privacy, her emotional state, we haven’t said anything,” Natalie Jackson, an attorney for the family of victim Trayvon Martin, told The Huffington Post.

[F430murci]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Unfortunately, most people including most on here are absolutely clueless about the facts of the case and what the law actually is . . .

A patronizing and contemptuous post.

High handedly dismissive of what you don't like or respect, i.e., public opinion.

Public opinion takes into material consideration the origin of the time, place, circumstance, and of the nature and character of the two principals involved.

You utterly fail to do this.

Unfortunately, public opinion can be less than informed and a lot of what I continue to read is not accurate and is a misstatement of the law. Public opinion can be shaped by prejudices and media. If I had NO knowledge of how the evidence came out during trial, I would perhaps have bought into the notion that some poor child was killed by some whacked out vigilante red neck with a gun while the poor child was doing nothing but walking home from the store with a bag of Skittles. That is what I heard on the radio this morning while listening to Steve Harvey. That is completely inaccurate and unfortunately it is the deceptive messages like this are shaping public opinion.

Unfortunately, the factors you keep citing over and over have nothing to do with the law or the manner in which the case was decided.

Do you not realize that every single scientific or expert witness presented by the prosecution supported Zimmerman's defense when cross examined?

Do you not realize that the original prosecutor that reviewed and declined to charge has a great record and reputation?

Do you not realize that the special prosecutor appointed has a horribly and ethically questionable reputation?

Do you not realize that the special prosecutor may have signed a false affidavit to ensure the case could proceed?

Do you not realize that the special prosecutor may have concealed evidence, suppressed photographic evidence and committed ethical violations?

Do you not realize that the special prosecutor may have filed someone from her office that properly discharged their duties by blowing the whistle on the special prosecutor?

I am actually very pro prosecution provided it does not violate constitutional rights of which I have a fair understanding. I also think criminals should burn no matter what race they are if they are guilty, but I also believe that the law should be upheld and applied EVENLY.

The decision to prosecute this case was political and not even handed application of the law. That is abuse of process, especially when taken into consideration the apparent conduct of the special prosecutor. This is bad moment on a system I am actually very proud and in a system in which I believe.

Edited July 15, 2013 by F430murci

[gl555]

And her testimony was never used in court because it obviously had nothing to do with the case. Grasping at straws?

Perhaps her crediblity is questionable because she claimed that the Zimmermans were racists when an FBI investigation found that George Zimmerman showed no sign of racism. Grasping at straws again?

You need find better articles support your little arguments if you want people to take you less as a joke ok?

Another reason I don't buy Martin was this vulnerable child insinuation is because, I have heard and wanted to find some confirmation, is that 17 year olds commit a disproportionately amount of the violents crimes in the US.

Article addressing a reason why 17 year olds should be tried as adults

"is important because offenders aged 16-24 account for 37 percent of arrests for violent crime in the United States and North Carolina. Data show that serious violent crime peaks during the late teenage years and declines steadily as individuals move into their late

20s. Moreover, although 15- to 19-year-olds represent approximately seven percent of the total US population, they account for more than 20 percent of all violent crimes in the United States."

http://www.familyimpactseminars.org/s_ncfis03c01.pdf

Sorry, but based on what I have heard, and the jury did not hear, Martin was a 6'2" wannabe thug with a bad attitude. He was not some innocent 12 year old child skipping home with a hand full of skittles.

Trayvon had no history with guns, no history of violence, no history of gang membership or association, no history of being an aggressive personality, was a respectable student in school with a very good attendance record, wanted to be a pilot.

Given that you want to impugn the character and the reputation of the deceased, let's get to know the live George Zimmerman better:

Woman Says George Zimmerman Molested Her For More Than A Decade

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html

A woman with close ties to George Zimmerman and his family told investigators that members of Zimmermans family were boastfully proud racists and that for more than a decade Zimmerman sexually molested her.

It started when I was six, the woman told investigators during an interview on the morning of March 20. Wed all lay in front of the TV and we had pillows and blankets and he would reach under the blankets and try to do things and I would try to push him off but he was bigger and stronger and older, the woman said, audibly weeping in the Florida State Attorney's Office interview recording released Monday. It was in front of everybody and I dont know how I didnt say anything, I just didnt know any better.

The woman, identified in various reports and in taped interviews with investigators as witness 9, said that from the age of six to 19 Zimmerman repeatedly fondled her, at times penetrating her vagina with his finger.

A number of news sources have reported that the woman is a relative of the Zimmerman family, though her exact relationship to Zimmerman was redacted from the interview recording. Zimmerman's legal team, in a statement released later Monday night, identified the woman as a cousin.

Weve known about this since the beginning but out of respect to her privacy, her emotional state, we havent said anything, Natalie Jackson, an attorney for the family of victim Trayvon Martin, told The Huffington Post.

[F430murci]

Another reason I don't buy Martin was this vulnerable child insinuation is because, I have heard and wanted to find some confirmation, is that 17 year olds commit a disproportionately amount of the violents crimes in the US.

Article addressing a reason why 17 year olds should be tried as adults

"is important because offenders aged 16-24 account for 37 percent of arrests for violent crime in the United States and North Carolina. Data show that serious violent crime peaks during the late teenage years and declines steadily as individuals move into their late

20s. Moreover, although 15- to 19-year-olds represent approximately seven percent of the total US population, they account for more than 20 percent of all violent crimes in the United States."

http://www.familyimpactseminars.org/s_ncfis03c01.pdf

Sorry, but based on what I have heard, and the jury did not hear, Martin was a 6'2" wannabe thug with a bad attitude. He was not some innocent 12 year old child skipping home with a hand full of skittles.

Trayvon had no history with guns, no history of violence, no history of gang membership or association, no history of being an aggressive personality, was a respectable student in school with a very good attendance record, wanted to be a pilot.

Given that you want to impugn the character and the reputation of the deceased, let's get to know the live George Zimmerman better:

Woman Says George Zimmerman Molested Her For More Than A Decade

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html

A woman with close ties to George Zimmerman and his family told investigators that members of Zimmermans family were boastfully proud racists and that for more than a decade Zimmerman sexually molested her.

It started when I was six, the woman told investigators during an interview on the morning of March 20. Wed all lay in front of the TV and we had pillows and blankets and he would reach under the blankets and try to do things and I would try to push him off but he was bigger and stronger and older, the woman said, audibly weeping in the Florida State Attorney's Office interview recording released Monday. It was in front of everybody and I dont know how I didnt say anything, I just didnt know any better.

The woman, identified in various reports and in taped interviews with investigators as witness 9, said that from the age of six to 19 Zimmerman repeatedly fondled her, at times penetrating her vagina with his finger.

A number of news sources have reported that the woman is a relative of the Zimmerman family, though her exact relationship to Zimmerman was redacted from the interview recording. Zimmerman's legal team, in a statement released later Monday night, identified the woman as a cousin.

Weve known about this since the beginning but out of respect to her privacy, her emotional state, we havent said anything, Natalie Jackson, an attorney for the family of victim Trayvon Martin, told The Huffington Post.

This type of stuff says more about you than about the facts of this case or the law. I'll leave it at that and mosey on as there is nothing else that can be said.

[Publicus]

Concretely, however, it is difficult to accept that a jury can be wrong, that juries have been wrong. In the reality of the moment, it is difficult to accept that an innocent unarmed boy can be targeted by an armed character who is on the margin of society and be killed by the person in a gross instance of the excessive use of force.

Deadly force is justified (not excessive) if you fear for your life and your head is being bashed into the cement. Trayvo Martin was innocent, up until the time he was beating the crap out of the neighborhood watch.

In reality we will never know who threw the first punch, but why would Zimmerman (who had called for the police, and knew that they could arrive at any time) initiate the fight and throw the first punch? The answer (in my opinion) is that he would likely not have done that and that it is much more likely that a gangster wanna be (that would be Trayvon) would initiate a fight.

The first paragraph was written by me.

The 2nd and 3rd paragraphs were written by someone else. The 2nd and 3rd paragraphs were not written by me.

You screwed up the three paragraph quote citations.

Kindly acknowledge this publicly and try to correct the misrepresentation of me in your erroneous (or mistaken) quote citations.

Thai Visa Forum used to be absolutely strict about altering quotes or misrepresenting posters in quote citations. Unfortunately, this is no longer true, hasn't been true for a long time now.

[Publicus]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Haha, I just looked at your poll. It was from June before public or I even knew the facts. Lamo attempt. Haha. . .

Here is a poll I actually would grant some credence to:

Guilty of Second Degree ------- 18%

Guilty of manslaughter ---------- 15.6%

Not guilty ---------------------------- 66.4%

http://blogs.lawyers.com/2013/07/george-zimmerman-guilty-or-not-poll/

I state in my post the CNN survey was taken before the trial began and was released on the Monday of the week the trial began.

Perhaps in your dismissive haste you might want now to pause for a least a moment to read the text of the post before jumping to erroneous conclusions and to make undeserved derogatory comments.

What do you call the disappearance of 5000 lawyers?

A good start.

Haha, I guess the huge headlines stating present tense diverted my attention. So that begs the question, why not post a current poll . . . Sketchy dude and you are saying lawyers are sketchy . . .

I haven't found any current poll as of this writing.

Try not to miss the not so fine print next time.

[Publicus]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Unfortunately, most people including most on here are absolutely clueless about the facts of the case and what the law actually is . . .

A patronizing and contemptuous post.

High handedly dismissive of what you don't like or respect, i.e., public opinion.

Public opinion takes into material consideration the origin of the time, place, circumstance, and of the nature and character of the two principals involved.

You utterly fail to do this.

Unfortunately, public opinion can be less than informed and a lot of what I continue to read is not accurate and is a misstatement of the law. Public opinion can be shaped by prejudices and media. If I had NO knowledge of how the evidence came out during trial, I would perhaps have bought into the notion that some poor child was killed by some whacked out vigilante red neck with a gun while the poor child was doing nothing but walking home from the store with a bag of Skittles. That is what I heard on the radio this morning while listening to Steve Harvey. That is completely inaccurate and unfortunately it is the deceptive messages like this are shaping public opinion.

Unfortunately, the factors you keep citing over and over have nothing to do with the law or the manner in which the case was decided.

Do you not realize that every single scientific or expert witness presented by the prosecution supported Zimmerman's defense when cross examined?

Do you not realize that the original prosecutor that reviewed and declined to charge has a great record and reputation?

Do you not realize that the special prosecutor appointed has a horribly and ethically questionable reputation?

Do you not realize that the special prosecutor may have signed a false affidavit to ensure the case could proceed?

Do you not realize that the special prosecutor may have concealed evidence, suppressed photographic evidence and committed ethical violations?

Do you not realize that the special prosecutor may have filed someone from her office that properly discharged their duties by blowing the whistle on the special prosecutor?

I am actually very pro prosecution provided it does not violate constitutional rights of which I have a fair understanding. I also think criminals should burn no matter what race they are if they are guilty, but I also believe that the law should be upheld and applied EVENLY.

The decision to prosecute this case was political and not even handed application of the law. That is abuse of process, especially when taken into consideration the apparent conduct of the special prosecutor. This is bad moment on a system I am actually very proud and in a system in which I believe.

I stated back somewhere on what's now page 2 or 3 of this thread that the prosecution was incompetent. I omitted at the time it may have engaged in misconduct, which appears to be the case.

It is a fact that juries deliver false verdicts; that judges In a bench trial have made errors or mistakes. It's reality and well documented that innocents have been found guilty and, much worse, been executed.

A reasonable person can conclude that juries have set free the guilty. Any reasonable person would acknowledge this.

That is the standard in a rational society, is it not? The reasonable person.

You cast aspersions on the reasonableness of public opinion. I'm not always in the majority of public opinion - not always. The reasonable way to challenge scientific public opinion survey research outcomes is to examine the methodology, the assumptions of the survey, their techniques to include the wording of questions. Disparaging the outcome of a consistently reliable public opinion poll is cheap and trite, mundane and a self-statement that is revealing.

[hawker9000]

What the evil villain George Zimmerman (and his defenders) don't get is that he has three things going against him. One, he's not the black guy. 'Makes just about anything he does a hate crime, actual violation of any law or no. Two, he had & used a gun. Lawful possession & use simply doesn't matter (see #1). Lastly, he didn't have any political strings to pull (always a mistake, particularly where #1 and #2 are concerned...). Three strikes. He should've known better than to try & defend himself. What a moron, eh? Too bad Trayvon Martin couldn't beat some sense into him (not that he didn't give it a heck of a try).

[Johpa]

Your post fails to recognize how the entire situation originated. Origination is a vital factor in anything - it is the first question most of us ask.

I have been hanging around Thailand long enough to remember the days that any time a Farang was involved in an automobile incident that they were always held liable on the same "origination" logic: if we had not driven that day then the accident would not have occured.

[Publicus]

Your post fails to recognize how the entire situation originated. Origination is a vital factor in anything - it is the first question most of us ask.

I have been hanging around Thailand long enough to remember the days that any time a Farang was involved in an automobile incident that they were always held liable on the same "origination" logic: if we had not driven that day then the accident would not have occured.

The loser George Zimmerman started the event, the whole of it. Treyvon was innocently engaged in minding his own business, having a phone conversation with a dear friend, not beating up on some granny - a white granny of course. Zimmerman is the initiator of the entire series of events, Zimmerman the gunman.

[Jingthing]

Zimmerman wants to be a lawyer and defend others who have been "unfairly" accused.

Interesting choice!

I wonder if he'll be "profiling" his potential clients.

After his acquittal on murder charges for fatally shooting Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman may go to law school to help people wrongly accused of crimes like himself, close friends told Reuters on Sunday.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/07/15/slatest_pm_george_zimmerman_wants_to_be_a_lawyer.html

BTW, I have since heard that the limits of the financial reward Martin's family can expect in an EXPECTED civil suit against their son's killer is the estimated amount of his total earnings in his "assumed" lifetime career. That's a can of worms even trying to estimate that as nobody knows what a 17 year old boy will end up doing in life. But there it is.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[Naam]

Your post fails to recognize how the entire situation originated. Origination is a vital factor in anything - it is the first question most of us ask.

I have been hanging around Thailand long enough to remember the days that any time a Farang was involved in an automobile incident that they were always held liable on the same "origination" logic: if we had not driven that day then the accident would not have occured.

i know half a dozen countries where this fairy tale is spread since decades

[watcharacters]

If Zimmerman is truly not guilty, justice *not* served until Trayvon's family *pays Zimmerman* for the rigors of a false accusation and ruining Zimmerman's life. Suffering grief (even of your own child) does not absolve you from unjustly ruining someone else's life.

.

I may be mistaken but I thought it was the legal process i.e. district attorney's office and police department, that charged Zimmerman with a crime.

I really didn't follow this trial at all.

In the long run, I'd be willing to take a bet that Mr. Zimmerman will be tried in civil court and with the lower level of guilt requirements possibly be found guilty as happened to OJ Simpson.

In 1995, he was acquitted of the 1994 murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman after a lengthy and internationally publicized criminal trial, the People v. Simpson. In 1997, a civil court awarded a judgment against Simpson for their wrongful deaths; to date he has paid little of the $33.5 million penalty.^[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson

Edited July 15, 2013 by watcharacters

[Ulysses G.]

Trayvon had no history with guns, no history of violence, no history of gang membership or association, no history of being an aggressive personality, was a respectable student in school with a very good attendance record, wanted to be a pilot.

If you completely ignore all the evidence to the contrary on his cell phone.

[Ulysses G.]

The reason they couldn't find him guilty is because of Florida law, they weren't allowed to consider Zimmerman's outrageous arrogance and recklessness in not listening to the 911 operator AND neglecting to openly ANNOUNCE who he was and what he was doing in following the dead boy victim.

The reason they couldn't find him guilty is because NONE of those things ARE AGAINST THE LAW and ATTACKING someone IS. Self defense laws are very similar all over the USA. There is nothing special about invoking self defense in Florida.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[F430murci]

Zimmerman wants to be a lawyer and defend others who have been "unfairly" accused.

Interesting choice!

I wonder if he'll be "profiling" his potential clients.

After his acquittal on murder charges for fatally shooting Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman may go to law school to help people wrongly accused of crimes like himself, close friends told Reuters on Sunday.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/07/15/slatest_pm_george_zimmerman_wants_to_be_a_lawyer.html

BTW, I have since heard that the limits of the financial reward Martin's family can expect in an EXPECTED civil suit against their son's killer is the estimated amount of his total earnings in his "assumed" lifetime career. That's a can of worms even trying to estimate that as nobody knows what a 17 year old boy will end up doing in life. But there it is.

Wrongful death damages are calculated as economic value of one's life and parents can get filal consortium which won't be squat in this case.

Zimmerman may be able to bankrupt damages depending on findings and Florida civil laws are very pro defendant and protect assets in a way that makes me sick.

He might could get into law school depending upon grades and LSAT, but the bar would never issue him a license. Florida bar has denied people for not paying creditors timely and can consider uncharged crimes and his 2005 stuff to say he is unfit and they will. Zimmerman could never get a license anywhere in US.

[Publicus]

Another reason I don't buy Martin was this vulnerable child insinuation is because, I have heard and wanted to find some confirmation, is that 17 year olds commit a disproportionately amount of the violents crimes in the US.

Article addressing a reason why 17 year olds should be tried as adults

"is important because offenders aged 16-24 account for 37 percent of arrests for violent crime in the United States and North Carolina. Data show that serious violent crime peaks during the late teenage years and declines steadily as individuals move into their late

20s. Moreover, although 15- to 19-year-olds represent approximately seven percent of the total US population, they account for more than 20 percent of all violent crimes in the United States."

http://www.familyimpactseminars.org/s_ncfis03c01.pdf

Sorry, but based on what I have heard, and the jury did not hear, Martin was a 6'2" wannabe thug with a bad attitude. He was not some innocent 12 year old child skipping home with a hand full of skittles.

Trayvon had no history with guns, no history of violence, no history of gang membership or association, no history of being an aggressive personality, was a respectable student in school with a very good attendance record, wanted to be a pilot.

Given that you want to impugn the character and the reputation of the deceased, let's get to know the live George Zimmerman better:

Woman Says George Zimmerman Molested Her For More Than A Decade

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html

A woman with close ties to George Zimmerman and his family told investigators that members of Zimmermans family were boastfully proud racists and that for more than a decade Zimmerman sexually molested her.

It started when I was six, the woman told investigators during an interview on the morning of March 20. Wed all lay in front of the TV and we had pillows and blankets and he would reach under the blankets and try to do things and I would try to push him off but he was bigger and stronger and older, the woman said, audibly weeping in the Florida State Attorney's Office interview recording released Monday. It was in front of everybody and I dont know how I didnt say anything, I just didnt know any better.

The woman, identified in various reports and in taped interviews with investigators as witness 9, said that from the age of six to 19 Zimmerman repeatedly fondled her, at times penetrating her vagina with his finger.

A number of news sources have reported that the woman is a relative of the Zimmerman family, though her exact relationship to Zimmerman was redacted from the interview recording. Zimmerman's legal team, in a statement released later Monday night, identified the woman as a cousin.

Weve known about this since the beginning but out of respect to her privacy, her emotional state, we havent said anything, Natalie Jackson, an attorney for the family of victim Trayvon Martin, told The Huffington Post.

This type of stuff says more about you than about the facts of this case or the law. I'll leave it at that and mosey on as there is nothing else that can be said.

You are trying to disparage the deceased, and you are saying reckless things that I already have refuted. You are trying to malign the deceased who has a clean record during just barely 17 years of life. Some one has to speak for the deceased and to speak directly to your base, crass and reprehensible efforts to mischaracterize the deceased.

Have you no shame?

Have you no limits to your campaign?

[Publicus]

Zimmerman wants to be a lawyer and defend others who have been "unfairly" accused.

Interesting choice!

I wonder if he'll be "profiling" his potential clients.

After his acquittal on murder charges for fatally shooting Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman may go to law school to help people wrongly accused of crimes like himself, close friends told Reuters on Sunday.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/07/15/slatest_pm_george_zimmerman_wants_to_be_a_lawyer.html

BTW, I have since heard that the limits of the financial reward Martin's family can expect in an EXPECTED civil suit against their son's killer is the estimated amount of his total earnings in his "assumed" lifetime career. That's a can of worms even trying to estimate that as nobody knows what a 17 year old boy will end up doing in life. But there it is.

Zimmerman couldn't qualify in Virginia to be a cop. I'd like to see him take the LSAT so I can laff my arse off at how he'd become the first to get a minus score, or at the least join their ranks. This law school baloney is more bs from Zimmerman, something he became well known for and displayed for all the country to see. Zimmerman is a bullsh*ter, through and through.

Trayvon seriously wanted to be a pilot. He wasn't going to get a police record or a bad reputation in his community or at his schools. He was innocently minding his own business when Zimmerman profiled him as a "punk" who "always get away with it." Zimmerman is a sick puppy - nay, a demented killer guilty of excessive use of force.

Zimmerman is the gunman against an unarmed kid who wanted to be a pilot.