Zimmerman not guilty in Trayvon Martin death: Florida jury

[gl555]

Allow me to rebut.

Zimmerman's MMA instructor testified that Zimmerman was 'soft', 'non atheletic' and had a skill of '1 to 1.5 out of 10' as a fighter.

Serino has in public stated that the police didn't have enough evidence to charge Zimmerman.

5 other jurors found Zimmerman innocent while 4 of them distanced themselves from B37.

Oh and the first 2 points I have repeated myself countless times already. Don't worry, we know you're old since you lived through the civil rights movement. I will continue rebutting you with the same points every time you repeat yourself.

Anyone that states information I posted is not factual, please point out the exact Specific statements you state are not factual

Every thing I have posted to is factual and the best information available.

ThaT the Fact that Zimmerman took over a year of intensive MMA Combat Training I can document that statement.

I can also document What Serino entered in to his report to to charge Zimmerman with Manslaughter, There is a Legal signed affidavit bearing Serino and his supervisors signature.

I posted a copy of the STATES MOTION TO LIMIT/EXCLUDE IMPROPER OPINION EVIDENCE that Juror B37 was stated by her agent she violated by stating she made her decision based on the manner in which he was arrested and court instructions.

Now it is up to you-all to put up your rebuttal of my points with the same quality of documents,

Its time to put up but I know you can not.

Cheers: .

.

Edited July 21, 2013 by gl555

[F430murci]

Gl55

The alternate juror, a male also said same things about the evidence. Why does no one address alternate? Because no one has anything to base levy a personal attack against him.

[gl555]

It's selectively choosing 'proof' that agrees with them.

Gl55

The alternate juror, a male also said same things about the evidence. Why does no one address alternate? Because no one has anything to base levy a personal attack against him.

[Jingthing]

McCain also PRAISED President Obama for his recent speech about the case calling it VERY IMPRESSIVE, acknowledging the serious issues of race that still remain the U.S. that were highlighted by the case.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[Baloo22]

The jury was corrupted, Juror B37 formed an opinion on evidence that WAS NOT presented at the trial.

Her agent stated to that fact during the announcement that they intended to write a book.

The evidence points to they saw financial gain in an controversial verdict.

Cheers:

Total nonsense!

The jurors, who were actually in the court, heard the testimony and examined the evidence presented. Those six jurors, who were much better informed than you, made their wise and well-informed decision to vote not-guilty. This case had it's day in court and justice was served. There is no doubt of that.

It is obvious that you do not like the verdict and you have gone into full "make stuff up" mode. You degrade yourself when you spew such nonsense.

[F430murci]

The jury was corrupted, Juror B37 formed an opinion on evidence that WAS NOT presented at the trial.

Her agent stated to that fact during the announcement that they intended to write a book.

The evidence points to they saw financial gain in an controversial verdict.

Cheers:

Did she say that before the trial that she believed he should have never been charged?

Did she say in response to a question and answer session where she asked if she believed Zimmerman should have been charged?

Wasn't the issue more or less her saying she believed the Sanford police detective when he said he believed Zimmerman. The judge struck the testimony and asked jury not to consider.

She, however, noted a whole lot of other testimony and evidence that was not stricken by the Judge and that was admissible in support of the verdict. The important evidence came from experts called by the state that did not hold up in cross examination. Her reliance on detective's statement is but a very small piece of the puzzle consisting of how many days of testimony from how many witnesses.

Harmless error analysis and totality if the circumstances. If prosecution thought this was an issue, they would challenge, especially since they are under fire at the present.

[Jingthing]

Juries don't always get it right.

I recently read an estimate that they get it about 75 percent right.

Difficult to measure of course, but that's why people discuss the verdicts of controversial cases, like this one and the OJ trial.

Accepting what the verdict was is one thing and that includes of course no double jeopardy on the same charges. That doesn't mean that everyone is going to agree with it or not be interested in other legal avenues to pursue justice for the murdered innocent boy.

Or at least a LEGACY such as action on stand your ground laws.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[F430murci]

McCain also PRAISED President Obama for his recent speech about the case calling it VERY IMPRESSIVE, acknowledging the serious issues of race that still remain the U.S. that were highlighted by the case.

Really, what is a politician going to say in a state with a huge Hispanic base (whom apparently suffers from more discrimination than blacks). He would be committing political suicide to say anything else. He cannot appear insensitive to racial issues if he hopes to have a political future.

[gl555]

They don't get it right all the time but they got it right this time. You may not like the gun laws or the stand your ground law but until they're changed, it's the law. And the jury followed the law and acquitted Zimmerman.

Juries don't always get it right.

I recently read an estimate that they get it about 75 percent right.

Difficult to measure of course, but that's why people discuss the verdicts of controversial cases, like this one and the OJ trial.

[Baloo22]

Just because you can't relate culturally to a modern black youth doesn't mean there was any justification to profile him, follow him, provoke him, scare him, and then when he gets pissed off and starts winning in a normal fight, shoot him dead with your gun. What if the murder victim had been of age and legally carrying a gun and killed his obnoxious pursuer, Zimmerman instead, as President Obama asked. Who SERIOUSLY thinks the black shooter would have gotten away with murder for that?

BTW, posing thug is NORMAL for modern black youth. Its fashion and culture. It doesn't mean most posing that way are ACTUAL thugs.

Do some of you fogies REMEMBER what its like being a TEENAGER?

Whatever personal faults he had according to white middle class values, did he deserve to be shot dead for that?

The murdered boy was walking home, unarmed, with tea and Skittles. Why is he dead? ZIMMERMAN.

"Why is he dead? ZIMMERMAN."

Nonsense! He is dead because he chose to violently assault another person and cause that person to fear for his life. It was a case of him taking the action of thug scum. That is why he lost his life.

Six jurors, who were actually in the court, heard the testimony and examined the evidence presented. Those six jurors, who were much better informed than you, made their wise and well-informed decision to vote not-guilty. This case had it's day in court and justice was served. There is no doubt of that.

[F430murci]

Juries don't always get it right.

I recently read an estimate that they get it about 75 percent right.

Difficult to measure of course, but that's why people discuss the verdicts of controversial cases, like this one and the OJ trial.

Accepting what the verdict was is one thing and that includes of course no double jeopardy on the same charges. That doesn't mean that everyone is going to agree with it or not be interested in other legal avenues to pursue justice for the murdered innocent boy.

Or at least a LEGACY such as action on stand your ground laws.

The only truism with juries is that one side is usually not going to be happy.

When clerking for the Supreme Court, I reviewed many trial records for sufficiency of the evidence.

Forget sufficiency here . . . there was actually zero evidence by prosecution to refute self defense and prosecution had the burden to show no self defense.

What evidence did prosecution present to disprove self defense. Please cite witness name and what they said and how that evidence was not refuted by any other evidence.

You will not believe me when I say this, but I would be the absolute first person to say if the jury got wrong. I really give a crap less about Zimmerman and am more concerned about the legal system and how it functions. I was shocked at how bad prosecution's evidence was on a daily basis while watching witness's and reading dailies.

[Ulysses G.]

McCain also PRAISED President Obama for his recent speech about the case

Incorrect. It wasn't his remarks about the case that McCain praised. It was his remarks on RACE.

[Ulysses G.]

BTW, posing thug is NORMAL for modern black youth. Its fashion and culture.

Well, they should not be surprised when they get "profiled" that way.

[metisdead]

This forum is not a court of law. The court in Florida decided the case and made a ruling. Rather than contesting the evidence and court ruling here, perhaps somebody should take their case to court in the USA to seek justice instead of trying to overturn the verdict here. Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed and will continue to be removed.

[chuckd]

Just because you can't relate culturally to a modern black youth doesn't mean there was any justification to profile him, follow him, provoke him, scare him, and then when he gets pissed off and starts winning in a normal fight, shoot him dead with your gun. What if the murder victim had been of age and legally carrying a gun and killed his obnoxious pursuer, Zimmerman instead, as President Obama asked. Who SERIOUSLY thinks the black shooter would have gotten away with murder for that?

BTW, posing thug is NORMAL for modern black youth. Its fashion and culture. It doesn't mean most posing that way are ACTUAL thugs.

Do some of you fogies REMEMBER what its like being a TEENAGER?

Whatever personal faults he had according to white middle class values, did he deserve to be shot dead for that?

The murdered boy was walking home, unarmed, with tea and Skittles. Why is he dead? ZIMMERMAN.

Your question was...

" What if the murder victim had been of age and legally carrying a gun and killed his obnoxious pursuer, Zimmerman instead, as President Obama asked. Who SERIOUSLY thinks the black shooter would have gotten away with murder for that?

My response is...

The headlines on page 26 of the Miami Herald would have read.."Hispanic killed by black teen during altercation"

Trayvon Martin would have been indicted and possibly convicted for first degree murder, considering he is the attacker in this venue.

Obama would not have come up with that ridiculous "If I had a son" comment and ensuing comments about "it could have been me".

Holder could be attempting to cover-up his various scandals even more.

Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Toure, et al would have found another crisis du jour to raise money over.

and, finally, ThaiVisa would not have 80-90 pages of mostly unnecessary pages of posts on this and related threads.

[Ulysses G.]

Your question was...

"What if the murder victim had been of age and legally carrying a gun and killed his obnoxious pursuer, Zimmerman instead, as President Obama asked. Who SERIOUSLY thinks the black shooter would have gotten away with murder for that?"

My response is...

The headlines on page 26 of the Miami Herald would have read.."Hispanic killed by black teen during altercation"

And no one would have been pretending that Zimmerman is white.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

McCain also PRAISED President Obama for his recent speech about the case

Incorrect. It wasn't his remarks about the case that McCain praised. It was his remarks on RACE.

Actually the context was how the case raised continuing issues about RACE. The speech didn't come from a vacuum. He was directly responding to the national mood in the wake of the upsetting (to most American blacks and liberals) verdict. Basically Obama was trying to explain to people who didn't get that why people were upset ... because of their LIFE experiences ... which our president SHARED.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Obama's perspective was interesting, but plenty of people of all races are casually profiled as possible criminals or dangerous who are not black. It depends on how one presents oneself. Wearing a hoodie does not help.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[JLCrab]

My 'what if': What if TM, instead of going out for Skittles & Iced tea, had said "Sh-t it's raining hard out there -- let's just order pizza delivery?"

[Jingthing]

Obama's perspective was interesting, but plenty of people of all races are casually profiled as possible criminals or dangerous who are not black.

...

Race issues are much more complex than black-white today but the black-white thing still is massively important in the context of American culture and history.

[Jingthing]

2 x post. Delete.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[samran]

Your question was...

"What if the murder victim had been of age and legally carrying a gun and killed his obnoxious pursuer, Zimmerman instead, as President Obama asked. Who SERIOUSLY thinks the black shooter would have gotten away with murder for that?"

My response is...

The headlines on page 26 of the Miami Herald would have read.."Hispanic killed by black teen during altercation"

And no one would have been pretending that Zimmerman is white.

The dark belly of US racial politics always is near the surface.Not having a go at you here UG, just that I find it perplexing that if you boil down to it, one guy got shot walking down the street by another guy who was told by the police not to follow him. Shouldn't it be that simple?

I guess Florida law is on his side, so he got off. And I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to go into that debate. Plenty of others have.

But the optics from my perspective are terrible. For me this case seems to legitimise vigilantism in the US. Not sure that is a reputation the US wants. Best leave that stuff for cr@pholes like PNG and Somalia....

[samran]

Obama's perspective was interesting, but plenty of people of all races are casually profiled as possible criminals or dangerous who are not black. It depends on how one presents oneself. Wearing a hoodie does not help.

It is a tough one when sterotypes are so ingrained as well I guess. If it isn't a hoodie, it is something else.

[Ulysses G.]

Zimmerman did not "follow him" after it was suggested that he stop. According the Zimmerman, Trayvon had been gone for 4 minutes when he got out of his car when the dispatcher asked him to verify an address. Trayvon came back and assaulted Zimmerman.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[JetsetBkk]

Just because you can't relate culturally to a modern black youth doesn't mean there was any justification to profile him, follow him, provoke him, scare him, and then when he gets pissed off and starts winning in a normal fight, shoot him dead with your gun. What if the murder victim had been of age and legally carrying a gun and killed his obnoxious pursuer, Zimmerman instead, as President Obama asked. Who SERIOUSLY thinks the black shooter would have gotten away with murder for that?

BTW, posing thug is NORMAL for modern black youth. Its fashion and culture. It doesn't mean most posing that way are ACTUAL thugs.

Do some of you fogies REMEMBER what its like being a TEENAGER?

Whatever personal faults he had according to white middle class values, did he deserve to be shot dead for that?

The murdered boy was walking home, unarmed, with tea and Skittles. Why is he dead? ZIMMERMAN.

Your question was...

"What if the murder victim had been of age and legally carrying a gun and killed his obnoxious pursuer, Zimmerman instead, as President Obama asked. Who SERIOUSLY thinks the black shooter would have gotten away with murder for that?"

My response is...

The headlines on page 26 of the Miami Herald would have read.."Hispanic killed by black teen during altercation"

Trayvon Martin would have been indicted and possibly convicted for first degree murder, considering he is the attacker in this venue.

Obama would not have come up with that ridiculous "If I had a son" comment and ensuing comments about "it could have been me".

Holder could be attempting to cover-up his various scandals even more.

Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Toure, et al would have found another crisis du jour to raise money over.

and, finally, ThaiVisa would not have 80-90 pages of mostly unnecessary pages of posts on this and related threads.

Sometimes a post deserves more than 1 "like", but I can give only 1.

[JetsetBkk]

Your question was...

"What if the murder victim had been of age and legally carrying a gun and killed his obnoxious pursuer, Zimmerman instead, as President Obama asked. Who SERIOUSLY thinks the black shooter would have gotten away with murder for that?"

My response is...

The headlines on page 26 of the Miami Herald would have read.."Hispanic killed by black teen during altercation"

And no one would have been pretending that Zimmerman is white.

The dark belly of US racial politics always is near the surface.Not having a go at you here UG, just that I find it perplexing that if you boil down to it, one guy got shot walking down the street by another guy who was told by the police not to follow him. Shouldn't it be that simple?

I guess Florida law is on his side, so he got off. And I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to go into that debate. Plenty of others have.

But the optics from my perspective are terrible. For me this case seems to legitimise vigilantism in the US. Not sure that is a reputation the US wants. Best leave that stuff for cr@pholes like PNG and Somalia....

I think you are living up to your avatar, samran!

Of course it is not as simple as "one guy got shot walking down the street by another guy who was told by the police not to follow him."

You are focussing on just one piece of the evidence. There is so much more.

[Credo]

Chuckd said: The headlines on page 26 of the Miami Herald would have read.."Hispanic killed by black teen during altercation"

Headlines very, very rarely make a reference to race in a criminal case.

Oh, and Samran, at the end of the day, there isn't a lot more to it.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Credo

[kikoman]

The Street name of the Drugs his doctor state were Prescribe to him in the ABC News May, 2012 was Adderall Street name "Speed" And Kidi-speed or Uppers. Temazepam.

Trayvon had a trace of Marijuana Street Name: Weed. Information that was leaked out before the trial, the speculation that many have voiced is that Trayvon was under the influence and nothing was ever said about Zimmerman influence of prescribed speed, a very potent street drug,

Cheers:

Edited July 22, 2013 by kikoman

[HeijoshinCool]

Obama's perspective was interesting, but plenty of people of all races are casually profiled as possible criminals or dangerous who are not black. It depends on how one presents oneself. Wearing a hoodie does not help.

You're right. I'm white and I'm profiled every time I try to get on a plane in the States.

Something about me, though I was a cop for twenty-five years, incites the TSA to take me aside for further interrogation and search, even though I have extensive training in reading non-verbal communication. I have no idea why I'm getting pulled aside.

But, it is definitely profiling.

[Chicog]

Zimmerman did not "follow him" after it was suggested that he stop. According the Zimmerman, Trayvon had been gone for 4 minutes when he got out of his car when the dispatcher asked him to verify an address. Trayvon came back and assaulted Zimmerman.

Emphasis on "According to Zimmerman". It's not as if Martin could offer an alternative version, is it?