Bouncy Unloaded 4wd?

[jumbo]

I adjusted PSI to 35, took out one pair of leaf springs and placed adjustable shocks

It's a lot better now, not compared to a regula car, but now I feel fine driving around

Wasnot planning on carrying heavy loads in the future other than a tank fo water and

some people around Songkrahn

J

[Pattaya Dave]

Serious reply: At tyre/shock absorber shops (Cockpit et al) they can sell you some additional gear / steal beams for the back suspension that provide a smoother ride.

It's not expensive, and it works.

Had this done when the Mrs was pregnant and would't ride in a bumpy car.

Changing shock absorbers might also help, but will add cost.

Cheers,

Chanchao

First off, thanks to you and others who posted serious and helpful replies offering legitimate solutions. That said, I am very interested in the idea of installing a steel beam (anti-sway bar) in the rear of my truck. The lateral movement (shimmy back & forth to the left & right) of the truck is much more discerning than that of a bouncy ride because this can affect vehicle stability. I was at "Boy Air & Sound" on Sukhumvit Road in Pattaya a few days ago. I spoke with a Thai man who said that he was driving his Vigo on the highway 7 toll road a few weeks ago when he had to do emergency braking, really stand on the brake pedal to avoid an accident. During the braking process, he said that the front of the truck nose-dived dramatically and the back of his truck began to wander (fishtail) all over the road resulting in a very high level of anxiety on his part even though he did indeed avoid having an accident. He told this story to a friend of his who said that he had a similar experience one day. He was told that by installing new adjustable shock absorbers and particularly an anti-sway bar that this problem would be resolved. After following this recommendation, he took his truck on the highway and in on a stretch of road nearly void of other traffic, he put his new modifications to a test. His conclusion, under hard braking, the truck no longer nose-dived in the front nor wandered (fishtailed) in the rear.

This is why I'm exploring this issue. I am looking to see if there are others who have had similar benefits from changing to quality adjustable shocks such as Rancho 9000X and the addition of an anti-sway bar. I'm also looking for shops in the Pattaya area which can install these modifications with a high level of professionalism. Thanks again to all and I am looking forward to any additional comments.

Pattaya Dave

[Pattaya Dave]

I adjusted PSI to 35, took out one pair of leaf springs and placed adjustable shocks

It's a lot better now, not compared to a regula car, but now I feel fine driving around

Wasnot planning on carrying heavy loads in the future other than a tank fo water and

some people around Songkrahn

J

Jumbo,

Thanks for sending me your solution for improving the ride and stability of your truck. I too, dropped my tire pressure down from 45 PSI set at the factory to 35 PSI. Removing one pair of leaf springs is an intriguing idea, but it is also a bit extreme, but as you have proved, it works. Before I start removing parts from my truck, I would like to consider other alternatives, however I do have a few questions for you concerning the effects of removing one pair of leaf springs.

First, did it change the ride height of the rear portion of your truck?

By removing one pair of leaf springs, did you have to install a different length of shock absorbers (shorter) than the standard ones to compensate for the change height resulting from removal of the leaf springs?

Did you have the leaf springs removed and shock absorbers changed locally in Pattaya, if so, where?

Just an observation on my part, if the length of the shock absorbers are incorrect, there will not be an equal balance of upper extension and downward retraction of the upper and lower sections of the shock absorber.

I'm looking forward to reading your response.

Pattaya Dave

[chanchao]

Agree on the shocks, in hindsight. But:

> Best and cheapest solution is carrying a few kilos in the bed at the back, sand, cement thats been mentioned before.

That would increase weight and reduce fuel economy. I really think the same effect can be reached by inserting the extra metal gear under the leaf springs in combination with that horizontal bar. It actually feels very similar to having a load in the back. I'm not sure how it affects load carrying capacity, but then again Thai pick-ups are designed to cope with way more than what we'd normally haul around.

[jumbo]

I adjusted PSI to 35, took out one pair of leaf springs and placed adjustable shocks

It's a lot better now, not compared to a regula car, but now I feel fine driving around

Wasnot planning on carrying heavy loads in the future other than a tank fo water and

some people around Songkrahn

J

Jumbo,

Thanks for sending me your solution for improving the ride and stability of your truck. I too, dropped my tire pressure down from 45 PSI set at the factory to 35 PSI. Removing one pair of leaf springs is an intriguing idea, but it is also a bit extreme, but as you have proved, it works. Before I start removing parts from my truck, I would like to consider other alternatives, however I do have a few questions for you concerning the effects of removing one pair of leaf springs.

First, did it change the ride height of the rear portion of your truck?

By removing one pair of leaf springs, did you have to install a different length of shock absorbers (shorter) than the standard ones to compensate for the change height resulting from removal of the leaf springs?

Did you have the leaf springs removed and shock absorbers changed locally in Pattaya, if so, where?

Just an observation on my part, if the length of the shock absorbers are incorrect, there will not be an equal balance of upper extension and downward retraction of the upper and lower sections of the shock absorber.

I'm looking forward to reading your response.

Pattaya Dave

Dave

I live in Bangkok and had it done in Bangkok at a local garage near my house. This guy knows his cars has a pick-up himself (next to others included a 'racing car') and had adjusted shock absorbers.

He took me for a test and I liked it so I had them installed.

I am a not a technical guy, just drive the pick-up for fun

It didnot effect the ride height in the back portion of the truck.

First I had the shock absobers installed drove around a week to feel the difference and it was a lot better already. But I wanted more 'comfort'. I used to have a sportrider which was a bumpy (and lousy) ride as well, until somebody advised me to take out a spring leaf, which I did and the ride improved dramatically.

I wanted the same on the Vigo, but the garage guy didn't agree because as far as I understood he told me the car would be instable while driving 'high speed'. Since I do not drive too fast in the pick-up I decided to get one leaf out anyway. He didnot replace anything. The ride once more improved to being to a level of comfortable.

Still not as a regular car, but hey....it is a pick-up, not a regular car.

For very long distances I would still prefer my other car, but going for a 200 miles drive I will take the Vigo ...

good luck

J

[Crossy]

He was told that by installing new adjustable shock absorbers and particularly an anti-sway bar that this problem would be resolved. After following this recommendation, he took his truck on the highway and in on a stretch of road nearly void of other traffic, he put his new modifications to a test. His conclusion, under hard braking, the truck no longer nose-dived in the front nor wandered (fishtailed) in the rear.

Dave, not doubting the mans sincerity, but how does making modifications to the rear suspension reduce front suspension dive?

Certainly can see the benefits of the anti-sway bar to reduce fishtailing though.

My Ranger is a bit skippy on the back, the ABS comes in under heavy braking even in the dry. Even a couple of 50kg bags of sand in the back makes a decernable difference and has no measurable effect on the fuel consumption.

The sand has one big advantage, it doesn't affect the warranty

[jumbo]

[quote name='Crossy'

The sand has one big advantage, it doesn't affect the warranty

Crossy

Nice point there, would placing adjustable shock absorbers or taking out a spring leaf effect the warranty or even insurance??? so waht about the upgrade package they sell for an extra 40 hp??

J

Edited February 6, 2007 by jumbo

[Crossy]

The sand has one big advantage, it doesn't affect the warranty

Nice point there, would placing adjustable shock absorbers or taking out a spring leaf effect the warranty or even insurance??? so waht about the upgrade package they sell for an extra 40 hp??

To answer the second part first, any changes to the engine mapping etc. to increase power will invalidate the warranty IF you get caught.

Be aware that modern engine management units have a limited 'Black Box' functionality which may well reveal that the engine was operating outside its normal range when it died, so just removing the mod before going in for a service or after the engine puts a rod through the crankcase may not be enough For the sceptical, Ford advertise this functionality as a feature.

Any drastic changes to the springs will probably invalidate suspension warranty in the event of a failure, so don't expect any help should a spring hanger fail dumping you in the ditch (even if the failure is unrelated to your changes) though I doubt after-market shocks and bolt-on sway-bars will be a problem.

I can't answer for the insurance stuff, I don't read Thai and I don't have an English translation. I can say that UK insurance asks you for any modifications and can (will) refuse to pay out if they discover any undeclared ones. Even adding a body kit has been known to invalidate theft insurance in the UK, crazy but true

[Pattaya Dave]

Dave

I live in Bangkok and had it done in Bangkok at a local garage near my house. This guy knows his cars has a pick-up himself (next to others included a 'racing car') and had adjusted shock absorbers.

He took me for a test and I liked it so I had them installed.

I am a not a technical guy, just drive the pick-up for fun

It didnot effect the ride height in the back portion of the truck.

First I had the shock absobers installed drove around a week to feel the difference and it was a lot better already. But I wanted more 'comfort'. I used to have a sportrider which was a bumpy (and lousy) ride as well, until somebody advised me to take out a spring leaf, which I did and the ride improved dramatically.

I wanted the same on the Vigo, but the garage guy didn't agree because as far as I understood he told me the car would be instable while driving 'high speed'. Since I do not drive too fast in the pick-up I decided to get one leaf out anyway. He didnot replace anything. The ride once more improved to being to a level of comfortable.

Still not as a regular car, but hey....it is a pick-up, not a regular car.

For very long distances I would still prefer my other car, but going for a 200 miles drive I will take the Vigo ...

good luck

J

Thanks Jumbo for the information. Do you happen to remember the brand and model of shock absorbers you had installed? Did you replace all 4 or did you only replace the back 2? This might sound dumb as I have not yet looked at the leaf spring setup on my truck, but if I'm not mistaken, each side has multiple leafs of different lengths that make up the spring. Do you recall which of the leafs was removed from each side? I'm still debating the issue of removing a leaf from the rear spring setup and the changing of shock absorbers, but I am quite keen on adding the anti-sway bar or horizontal shock absorber/coil spring assembly to help with lateral stability.

Pattaya Dave

[Pattaya Dave]

He was told that by installing new adjustable shock absorbers and particularly an anti-sway bar that this problem would be resolved. After following this recommendation, he took his truck on the highway and in on a stretch of road nearly void of other traffic, he put his new modifications to a test. His conclusion, under hard braking, the truck no longer nose-dived in the front nor wandered (fishtailed) in the rear.

Dave, not doubting the mans sincerity, but how does making modifications to the rear suspension reduce front suspension dive?

Certainly can see the benefits of the anti-sway bar to reduce fishtailing though.

My Ranger is a bit skippy on the back, the ABS comes in under heavy braking even in the dry. Even a couple of 50kg bags of sand in the back makes a discernible difference and has no measurable effect on the fuel consumption.

The sand has one big advantage, it doesn't affect the warranty

Crossy, very good point as I didn't quite think that through. Since the man had only replace the rear shock absorbers, not saying that replacing the front ones too would make any difference, this should have no affect whatsoever on reducing or stopping the front suspension from nose diving. At the time, I was more interested in how the modifications affected the rear of the truck that I didn't didn't really think about the front of the truck. I think my first modification will be the anti-sway bar since I'm more concerned with stability, reducing the fishtailing at the rear of the truck than I am the bouncy ride. I've seen two types of bolt on anti-sway bar/stability systems for the truck rear suspension.

One type uses a shock absorber surrounded by a coil spring and attached to the truck body?frame I think, on one end by a bracket with the other end attached to the rear axle housing.

The second type uses heavy duty metal braces whereby the upper end of the brace mounts to the truck body/frame on both sides. The lower end of the brace is mounted to a bracket that is connected to the lower shock absorber mount. A metal bar/rod is then connects the two metal brackets.

Both systems look vastly different than anything I've ever seen on the rear end of a truck in the U.S., however the second system appears to be the more professional looking of the two. The first system is used quite often in the U.S. as a front steering stabilizer bar to reduce the shock on the steering wheel from jerking violently when traversing rough or rocky terrain.

Have you seen any anti-sway bar systems in Thailand that you thought would be effective? I do wish I could post pictures of the systems that I have seen, but I don't know how or am not allowed to do so. I may have to go with the sand bags, however I was hoping that the additional weight of the sport lid would make for a noticeable improvement.

Pattaya Dave

[thedivezone]

He was told that by installing new adjustable shock absorbers and particularly an anti-sway bar that this problem would be resolved. After following this recommendation, he took his truck on the highway and in on a stretch of road nearly void of other traffic, he put his new modifications to a test. His conclusion, under hard braking, the truck no longer nose-dived in the front nor wandered (fishtailed) in the rear.

Dave, not doubting the mans sincerity, but how does making modifications to the rear suspension reduce front suspension dive?

Certainly can see the benefits of the anti-sway bar to reduce fishtailing though.

My Ranger is a bit skippy on the back, the ABS comes in under heavy braking even in the dry. Even a couple of 50kg bags of sand in the back makes a discernible difference and has no measurable effect on the fuel consumption.

The sand has one big advantage, it doesn't affect the warranty

Crossy, very good point as I didn't quite think that through. Since the man had only replace the rear shock absorbers, not saying that replacing the front ones too would make any difference, this should have no affect whatsoever on reducing or stopping the front suspension from nose diving. At the time, I was more interested in how the modifications affected the rear of the truck that I didn't didn't really think about the front of the truck. I think my first modification will be the anti-sway bar since I'm more concerned with stability, reducing the fishtailing at the rear of the truck than I am the bouncy ride. I've seen two types of bolt on anti-sway bar/stability systems for the truck rear suspension.

One type uses a shock absorber surrounded by a coil spring and attached to the truck body?frame I think, on one end by a bracket with the other end attached to the rear axle housing.

The second type uses heavy duty metal braces whereby the upper end of the brace mounts to the truck body/frame on both sides. The lower end of the brace is mounted to a bracket that is connected to the lower shock absorber mount. A metal bar/rod is then connects the two metal brackets.

Both systems look vastly different than anything I've ever seen on the rear end of a truck in the U.S., however the second system appears to be the more professional looking of the two. The first system is used quite often in the U.S. as a front steering stabilizer bar to reduce the shock on the steering wheel from jerking violently when traversing rough or rocky terrain.

Have you seen any anti-sway bar systems in Thailand that you thought would be effective? I do wish I could post pictures of the systems that I have seen, but I don't know how or am not allowed to do so. I may have to go with the sand bags, however I was hoping that the additional weight of the sport lid would make for a noticeable improvement.

Pattaya Dave

Crossy, Dave :

The reason a car might nose-dive on extreme braking is that the rear springs help "lift" the rear-end of the car when weight is taken off the rear.

So, some shock absorbers might help in reducing nose-diving during extreme braking even if only the rear ones are replaced.

Unless i'm talking nonsense .

Mike

[jumbo]

Thanks Jumbo for the information. Do you happen to remember the brand and model of shock absorbers you had installed? Did you replace all 4 or did you only replace the back 2? This might sound dumb as I have not yet looked at the leaf spring setup on my truck, but if I'm not mistaken, each side has multiple leafs of different lengths that make up the spring. Do you recall which of the leafs was removed from each side? I'm still debating the issue of removing a leaf from the rear spring setup and the changing of shock absorbers, but I am quite keen on adding the anti-sway bar or horizontal shock absorber/coil spring assembly to help with lateral stability.

Pattaya Dave

Brand name Precision, 18.500 thb 4 pcs. included installing can adjust them from 1 to 7 (for heavy loads)

they took out the shortest leaf spring.

In my experience you should definately insert the adjustable shock absorbers after which you can still remove the leaf spring, which you can always have put back as well......it cost me 750 thb to take them out......he also sold my old shock absorbers for 8.000 thb...

On another note ; I am still thinking about replacing my break system with a better system, anybody done this??

J

Edited February 8, 2007 by jumbo

[jumbo]

Thanks Jumbo for the information. Do you happen to remember the brand and model of shock absorbers you had installed? Did you replace all 4 or did you only replace the back 2? This might sound dumb as I have not yet looked at the leaf spring setup on my truck, but if I'm not mistaken, each side has multiple leafs of different lengths that make up the spring. Do you recall which of the leafs was removed from each side? I'm still debating the issue of removing a leaf from the rear spring setup and the changing of shock absorbers, but I am quite keen on adding the anti-sway bar or horizontal shock absorber/coil spring assembly to help with lateral stability.

Pattaya Dave

Brand name Precision, 18.500 thb 4 pcs. included installing can adjust them from 1 to 7 (for heavy loads)

they took out the shortest leaf spring.

In my experience you should definately insert the adjustable shoch absorbers after which you can still remove the leaf sling, which you can always have put back as well......it cost me 750 thb to take them out......he also sold my old shock absorbers for 8.000 thb...

On another note ; I am still thinking about replacing my break system with a better system, anybody done this??

J

[North]

I adjusted PSI to 35, took out one pair of leaf springs and placed adjustable shocks

It's a lot better now, not compared to a regula car, but now I feel fine driving around

Wasnot planning on carrying heavy loads in the future other than a tank fo water and

some people around Songkrahn

J

Why do you have that much pressure in your tyres ?

In my new Vigo, when I open the driver´s door, there is a sign indicating, that the pressure should be 29 PSI in all four wheels.

North

[jumbo]

I adjusted PSI to 35, took out one pair of leaf springs and placed adjustable shocks

It's a lot better now, not compared to a regula car, but now I feel fine driving around

Wasnot planning on carrying heavy loads in the future other than a tank fo water and

some people around Songkrahn

J

Why do you have that much pressure in your tyres ?

In my new Vigo, when I open the driver´s door, there is a sign indicating, that the pressure should be 29 PSI in all four wheels.

North

Thats what a tyre guy and my garageman as well as a pick-ip upgrader (32 he said) advised me, I will check the doors, thanks foor the tip

But did it make your drive more comfortable and no swaying due to low pressure,

J

[North]

Thats what a tyre guy and my garageman as well as a pick-ip upgrader (32 he said) advised me, I will check the doors, thanks foor the tip

But did it make your drive more comfortable and no swaying due to low pressure,

J

Yes, I think the ride is better,- less bumpy, but about the swaying, I have no idea, at the speeds I am driving I think there is no swaying.

North

[warwick7735]

Hi

Shock absorbers have no effect on the weight carrrying capability of a vehicle, they are there to dampen the movement of the springs. You can remove all the shocks from a vehicle and the ride height wont alter it will just bounce down the road once it hits a bump.

Adjustable shcks basically have an opening which you can alter the size, this allows more or less oil to flow through and hence make the car stiffer or softer.

Removing a leaf is basically weaking the spring at the back and allowing for more movement, and hence softening the ride.

If you remove a leaf you will not have to alter the shocks, as they are designed to cover the range of up and down movement of the suspension, it just means you wont be able to carry as much stuff in the bed, as the rear will squat more and eventually start to ride on its bump stops. Manufactures spend millions of pounds designing and testing suspension to suit a particular car.

Still think the best and cheapest way is to put say 100kilos of sand in the bed, that will transform the handling for a tiny outlay, and will have zero effect on warranty and insurance.

Warwick

[edmundchia]

how about installing air suspension? anyonone tried them? undefined

[elkangorito]

how about installing air suspension? anyonone tried them? undefined

If you mean 'adjustable air shock absorbers', yes, I've tried them. Their main use is to lift the rear of the vehicle when it is too low to the ground due to load. There's one problem though; if these shocks are pumped up via one (1) air valve, air can shift from one shock to another while cornering, which can be very dangerous. They do not change the 'ride' of the vehicle.

Also, placing a weight in the vehicle to improve 'ride' can also be very dangerous if the load is fluid (sand) or can move in any way. I've known of some people who did this & upon cornering, the load shifted to one side of the vehicle & the vehicle rolled. In one case, 2 people were killed because of this.

Shock absorbers exist to make the handling of the vehicle safer by preventing bounce & therefore maintaining a more constant 'weight contact' with the road. Poor, faulty or non-existent shock absorbers can kill under certain conditions & such conditions are not uncommon.

[Who, me ?]

I have put 2 bags of cement.....it improved comfort a lot....My old Ford Ranger 4X4 is not a Citroen yet, but it is much better than before !

[elkangorito]

I have put 2 bags of cement.....it improved comfort a lot....My old Ford Ranger 4X4 is not a Citroen yet, but it is much better than before !

I hope you tied them down.

[Crossy]

I have put 2 bags of cement.....it improved comfort a lot....My old Ford Ranger 4X4 is not a Citroen yet, but it is much better than before !

I hope you tied them down.

I'm using sand, yes, tied down