Best No Fee & Low-Fee Bank Cards for Americans 2013-

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That's a good additional caution, but one that can easily be dealt with by using a U.S.-located Internet proxy or VPN connection.

I didn't have that experience/problem myself. But perhaps Schwab has changed their technology since the time of my account opening.

[SurfRider]

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Here is a free VPN that will re-locate your IP to the USA - they have both a free and paid version, but all you need for this purpose is the free version.

http://download.cnet.com/ProXPN/3000-2144_4-75218501.html

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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I just recently installed the free version of ProXPN to give it a try... It does provide a U.S. IP, but the software is a bit intrusive for my tastes, with constant popup reminders on the free version.

A less intrusive free VPN option providing a U.S. IP for my tastes is TunnelBear. The free version is too slow for video streaming or anything like that, but perfectly fine for banking purposes.

https://www.tunnelbear.com/

[SurfRider]

.

"constant popup reminders on the free version"

It gives you an option to upgrade **ONLY** on your first WWW access after launching proXPN, not "constant popup reminders" -- A small price to pay for security and USA IP access - Let's be fair and honest here . . .

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

SR, after I installed the program a week or so ago, I was getting regular popup window reminders from the program about upgrading to their Premium offering -- at least, as long as I allowed the program to run in the background in my Windows taskbar, which is what is does by default. The same popup surfaces every time I try to launch the program, as well.

Once I closed out the program and exited it so it no longer resided in my taskbar, of course, the pop-ups stopped.

In contrast, the TunnelBear offering had no such pop-ups, and also had the bonus of offering both a U.S. and UK IP location in their free version.

Edited July 30, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[SurfRider]

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Edited July 30, 2013 by SurfRider

[SurfRider]

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I've been using proXPN for over 3 years, but **NEVER* leave it running in the background and only launch it when I need it - so our needs are obviously quite different. Why would you leave it running when you don't need it???

I've also used it for streaming HULU videos from the U.S. and downloading restricted YouTube videos - no problem. Both not normally possible in Thailand.

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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Suffice to say, either of those programs, or some others, will provide folks with a U.S. IP address that can be helpful when one wants to go online to open a new bank or financial account.

FWIW, perhaps the U.S. IP can be an issue sometimes when you try to open a new account. But once the account is open, I've not had or heard of any experience where solely having a non-U.S. IP created any kind of issues for existing accounts, using online banking, etc etc.

Of course, if you TELL the bank that you're not residing in the U.S., that's kind of asking for trouble from the get-go -- maybe not from every institution, but certainly from some.

[JimGant]

Here's another article about problems with Chuck:

http://blog.andrewng.com/2012/11/11/i-take-it-all-back-about-charles-schwab-onward-with-fidelity/

Interesting that more and more travel/expat forums are giving the nod to Fidelity over Schwab. And also interesting that almost all reports are that Fidelity is, indeed, eating the network's 1% foreign transaction fee. Why they don't advertise this fact is slightly bizarre -- but it doesn't give a warm and fuzzy that this policy is firmly cemented.

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1133312/?start=40

[Pib]

Suffice to say, either of those programs, or some others, will provide folks with a U.S. IP address that can be helpful when one wants to go online to open a new bank or financial account.

FWIW, perhaps the U.S. IP can be an issue sometimes when you try to open a new account. But once the account is open, I've not had or heard of any experience where solely having a non-U.S. IP created any kind of issues for existing accounts, using online banking, etc etc.

Of course, if you TELL the bank that you're not residing in the U.S., that's kind of asking for trouble from the get-go -- maybe not from every institution, but certainly from some.

I rarely use my VPN U.S. IP address when logging onto my U.S. bank/credit card accounts. Although on those occasions where I do apply for a new account I do use my VPN service.

[Pib]

Suffice to say, either of those programs, or some others, will provide folks with a U.S. IP address that can be helpful when one wants to go online to open a new bank or financial account.

FWIW, perhaps the U.S. IP can be an issue sometimes when you try to open a new account. But once the account is open, I've not had or heard of any experience where solely having a non-U.S. IP created any kind of issues for existing accounts, using online banking, etc etc.

Of course, if you TELL the bank that you're not residing in the U.S., that's kind of asking for trouble from the get-go -- maybe not from every institution, but certainly from some.

I rarely use my VPN U.S. IP address when logging onto my U.S. bank/credit card accounts. Although on those occasions where I do apply for a new account I do use my VPN service.

[vagabond48]

I just recently installed the free version of ProXPN to give it a try... It does provide a U.S. IP, but the software is a bit intrusive for my tastes, with constant popup reminders on the free version.

A less intrusive free VPN option providing a U.S. IP for my tastes is TunnelBear. The free version is too slow for video streaming or anything like that, but perfectly fine for banking purposes.

https://www.tunnelbear.com/

TallGuyJohn, why do you feel comfortable using TunnelBear for banking?

I would be very concerned about using free proxies or VPN to access your financial websites.

You are entering a lot of personal information that might be intercepted and stolen.

I read on a website, even though your input might be encrypted, the information which is passed back to you might not be.

I do want to note that I am not a software techie but I do question the motives of those who offer these free services.

[vagabond48]

My US driver's license expired at the beginning of the year so I lost my main US identification for opening a new bank account.

I am returning to the US in a couple of months and was wondering if there is a difference between a state identification card and driver's license?

Will banks accept the use of a state identification card to open a new bank account?

[vagabond48]

My US driver's license expired at the beginning of the year so I lost my main US identification for opening a new bank account.

I am returning to the US in a couple of months and was wondering if there is a difference between a state identification card and driver's license?

Will banks accept the use of a state identification card to open a new bank account?

[Pib]

My US driver's license expired at the beginning of the year so I lost my main US identification for opening a new bank account.

I am returning to the US in a couple of months and was wondering if there is a difference between a state identification card and driver's license?

Will banks accept the use of a state identification card to open a new bank account?

For the purposes of identification and opening a financial account, a state ID is fine. Heck, many people can't or don't want to drive and just get State IDs. And then some have their drivers license revoked for some reason and end-up with just another form of ID like a State ID.

I opened one of the Schwab applications to see what kind of ID they are looking for...they ask for a Drivers License, State ID, or Military ID. And I expect if a person didn't have one of these then they would probably accept some other form of identification acceptable to them....like maybe a U.S. passport but usually you need some other form of ID to originally get the passport. See below cut and paste from the Schwab application where they are looking for either a Drivers License, State ID, or Military ID.

[Pib]

I just recently installed the free version of ProXPN to give it a try... It does provide a U.S. IP, but the software is a bit intrusive for my tastes, with constant popup reminders on the free version.

A less intrusive free VPN option providing a U.S. IP for my tastes is TunnelBear. The free version is too slow for video streaming or anything like that, but perfectly fine for banking purposes.

https://www.tunnelbear.com/

TallGuyJohn, why do you feel comfortable using TunnelBear for banking?

I would be very concerned about using free proxies or VPN to access your financial websites.

You are entering a lot of personal information that might be intercepted and stolen.

I read on a website, even though your input might be encrypted, the information which is passed back to you might not be.

I do want to note that I am not a software techie but I do question the motives of those who offer these free services.

Would you feel safer with a VPN service you pay for....are VPN services you pay for more honest? You can also pay for the TunnelBear VPN service to have unlimited usage per month vs only the free 500MB. It's not like TunnelBear is some fly by night service...they do have a website, Android App, and Apple App...and been around for a while. Since they been around for a while that's a positive sign. They are also mentoned quite favorably in many VPN reviews/comparisons.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My US driver's license expired at the beginning of the year so I lost my main US identification for opening a new bank account.

I am returning to the US in a couple of months and was wondering if there is a difference between a state identification card and driver's license?

Will banks accept the use of a state identification card to open a new bank account?

I was able to renew my U.S. DL by mail a year or so back...saved me having to make a trip back and then a trip to DMV... But dunno how many times I'll be able to do that.

As for your question, I have no personal experience with state ID cards. But as far as I know, for identification purposes, they're supposed to work just like a DL -- but without the driving privileges. So I'm assuming banks would have no problem.

I've also seen some financial institutions that online will allow you to use a U.S. passport number instead of a DL... After all, not everyone drives or has a DL.

[vagabond48]

My US driver's license expired at the beginning of the year so I lost my main US identification for opening a new bank account.

I am returning to the US in a couple of months and was wondering if there is a difference between a state identification card and driver's license?

Will banks accept the use of a state identification card to open a new bank account?

I was able to renew my U.S. DL by mail a year or so back...saved me having to make a trip back and then a trip to DMV... But dunno how many times I'll be able to do that.

As for your question, I have no personal experience with state ID cards. But as far as I know, for identification purposes, they're supposed to work just like a DL -- but without the driving privileges. So I'm assuming banks would have no problem.

I've also seen some financial institutions that online will allow you to use a U.S. passport number instead of a DL... After all, not everyone drives or has a DL.

Unfortunately Arizona forces you to come in for a photo. I just read that for me a renewed DL will expire in 5 years. I may opt for a state ID which has no expiration date and it is free.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

TallGuyJohn, why do you feel comfortable using TunnelBear for banking?

I would be very concerned about using free proxies or VPN to access your financial websites.

You are entering a lot of personal information that might be intercepted and stolen.

I read on a website, even though your input might be encrypted, the information which is passed back to you might not be.

I do want to note that I am not a software techie but I do question the motives of those who offer these free services.

Vagabond... I'm a half techie and half bankie... so let's see where that leads. And maybe more techies than me will chime in.

As Pib noted, TunnelBear is like a lot of the VPN providers in that they offer a "freemium" model -- a low/limited level of service for free to get you in...and then paid plans for more robust service. Pro XPN mentioned earlier operates the same way. Nothing unusual or flakey about that.

Now, as for the details of your question, VPNs and proxies are similar but different things, especially in regard to security. Both will give you an IP location that corresponds to their particular server location. But beyond that, proxies don't encrypt the data being sent back and forth. Whereas VPN connections do encrypt the data being transmitted, which is supposed to mean that your ISP or others along the data route can't snoop electronically into your content.

AFAIK, as long as you're using the normal VPN protocols like those called PPTP or Open VPN, your data should be encrypted and secure, and it shouldn't matter at all whether you're using a paid or a free VPN service.

Where security goes AWOL, though, is with the various/many free/anonymous proxy hosts that exist out in the world of of the Internet, which provide a geographic IP, but don't provide encryption.Thus, people who use those un-secured proxies are sending their data thru a middle man that you don't know and who would have the ability to snoop on your data. But, if all you're doing with a proxy is watching Netflix online, then I don't think you need to worry about snooping too much. So proxies do have their purpose and place.

But all that I mention above applies in general. But now we get to banking specifically. To the best of my knowledge, these days, regardless of whether you're using a proxy or a VPN, most of the online banking connections to U.S. institutions are done via "https" connections, as opposed to regular "http" connections. And the added "S" stands for "Secure," meaning those connections themselves are encrypted, whether or not you're using a proxy or VPN, as I understand it.

In its popular deployment on the internet, HTTPS provides authentication of the web site and associated web server that one is communicating with, which protects against man-in-the-middle attacks. Additionally, it provides bidirectional encryption of communications between a client and server, which protects against eavesdropping and tampering with and/or forging the contents of the communication.^[1] In practice, this provides a reasonable guarantee that one is communicating with precisely the web site that one intended to communicate with (as opposed to an imposter), as well as ensuring that the contents of communications between the user and site cannot be read or forged by any third party.

A site must be completely hosted over HTTPS, without having some of its contents loaded over HTTP, or the user will be vulnerable to some attacks and surveillance. For example, having scripts etc. loaded insecurely on an HTTPS page makes the user vulnerable to attacks. Also having only a certain page that contains sensitive information (such as a log-in page) of a website loaded over HTTPS, while having the rest of the website loaded over plain HTTP will expose the user to attacks. On a site that has sensitive information somewhere on it, every time that site is accessed with HTTP instead of HTTPS, the user and the session will get exposed. Similarly, cookies on a site served through HTTPS have to have the secure attribute enabled.^[2]

In May 2010, a research paper by researchers from Microsoft Research and Indiana University discovered that detailed sensitive user data can be inferred from side channels such as packet sizes. More specifically, the researchers found that an eavesdropper can infer the illnesses/medications/surgeries of the user, his/her family income and investment secrets, despite HTTPS protection in several high-profile, top-of-the-line web applications in healthcare, taxation, investment and web search.^[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Secure

So overall, I'd say your online banking activities are reasonable secure as long as you're connecting via HTTPS. It's beyond my knowledge to say whether adding a VPN connection on top of HTTPS provides any better or additional security, though presumably it couldn't hurt. And, as mentioned above, the VPN or proxy does give you the geolocation aspect.

So, given what I've said above, like Pib, I generally don't use a VPN or proxy for my U.S. online banking activities because those connections are all done by HTTPS. I do sometimes use a VPN or proxy just for doing something new where a geolocation test might be involved.

From what I've seen and experienced, most banks and their systems don't seem to be bothered if you're connecting from a location away from your U.S. home. But where their security systems sometimes get fussy is if they notice your connection location changing a lot or coming from somewhere other than the norm, I presume, because their technology sees that as potential hacking.

That's one reason I generally haven't involved proxies or VPNs in my online banking. I have my established native IP address, and that remains pretty constant. And everything generally seems to work fine with that.

If I was going to add a VPN component for banking purposes, I'd probably decide to use the VPN 100% of the time for all my Internet traffic, banking and otherwise, to avoid the automated anti-hacking systems getting fussy. I don't think I'm focused enough to remember to manually turn on something like VPN every time I want to log into some online banking resource.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Unfortunately Arizona forces you to come in for a photo. I just read that for me a renewed DL will expire in 5 years. I may opt for a state ID which has no expiration date and it is free.

Yup... DL's being a state controlled program, the rules and procedures are going to vary from state to state. Some make it relatively easier to renew. Others don't.

[JimGant]

I was able to renew my U.S. DL by mail a year or so back...saved me having to make a trip back and then a trip to DMV... But dunno how many times I'll be able to do that.

John, what state? Somehow I recall you're from California. Any state tax potential by maintaining your license? (Virginia says you need to establish residency in another US state -- before they'll recognize your non-residency. So, keeping/especially renewing their drivers license could be problematic-- but I haven't seen a test case yet on this, and their tax cases are posted on-line.)

Also, I assume you're using/are required to use a California address for your license, and not the Texas mail forwarding address I recall you having.......? If so, again sounds like the taxman could get a whiff..

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Responded to you via PM, Jim...

[vagabond48]

TallGuy, thanks for the explanation. It is giving me a bit more confidence about VPN.

I should have been just a tad clearer. I am always online with my financial institution using my secure FF browser with https sites.

I was concerned about possible identify theft accessing government sites such as SSA even when using VPN.

I guess due to my extreme caution (and paranoia), I don't like downloading an exe program as tunnelbear and other VPN require.

They might include intrusive software such as a keylogger, etc.

I know Pib wrote that tunnelbear as been around for awhile so it might be safe enough.

Sometimes a bit of paranoia is good.

[Pib]

The OpenVPN protocol does download a small program to your device in order to make the OpenVPN protocol work...that's just the way OpenVPN works. However PPTP VPN protocol doesn't need any additional program to work on your computer...it's what I always use as I keep a PPTP VPN account with StrongVPN...I pay $55/year for unlimited usage.

Sure, I could easily get by with just using the free 500MB/month TunnelBear VPN service (which probably uses the OpenVPN protocol since it needs to run that little program on your device). But since I do very little video streaming where a U.S. IP address is required (video streaming can really eat MB's) and rarely use VPN for any financial activities since financial firms use a HTTPS connection, some of the free VPN services like TunnelBear could really meet my occasional VPN needs....I know that but still prefer to pay $55/year to have and use the StrongVPN service when needed. But I have no qualms in using the TunnelBear service for the last year or so...it's basically serves as my backup VPN service even through StrongVPN has never failed me after being with it for two years.

When you live outside your home country VPN service can come in handy sometimes to reach/use certain websites or maybe be a benefit when opening a financial account in your home country as it does seem some companies use IP addresses as one of many ways to make certain use or application initial decisions...call it getting your foot in the door. Now, the door may later be slammed in your face for another reason when opening a new financial account due to no verifiable U.S. address or credit reports reflecting negative/questionable information, but at least you did get your foot in the door and talk a little to the person behind the door before they closed it....and sometimes that little talk ends up opening the door for you to come in and establish your new account.

[vagabond48]

I have a TD Ameritrade account and called them regarding their debit card. I called twice, 1st call to get information then 2nd call to confirm the information. Of course, I got 2 different answers regarding their foreign transaction fee. The 1st rep said, there was no fee, while the 2nd rep said there was a 1% fee. Add the possibility that like Fidelity, we are told there is a 1% visa fee but actually the fee is not passed to us. I am hoping someone has used their debit card overseas and can clarify their fee policy.

As much as I hated what Schwab did, I really miss their card. It was the Emperor of DCs.

[Pib]

I have a TD Ameritrade account and called them regarding their debit card. I called twice, 1st call to get information then 2nd call to confirm the information. Of course, I got 2 different answers regarding their foreign transaction fee. The 1st rep said, there was no fee, while the 2nd rep said there was a 1% fee. Add the possibility that like Fidelity, we are told there is a 1% visa fee but actually the fee is not passed to us. I am hoping someone has used their debit card overseas and can clarify their fee policy.

As much as I hated what Schwab did, I really miss their card. It was the Emperor of DCs.

"If" you already have their debit card just give it a test. Go to an AEON ATM, withdraw Bt500, and then see if a separate 1% fee or a 1% lower exchange rate charge hits your account...worst case you get hit with 1% in fees which amounts to a 5 baht (16 cents) fee/lower exchange rate to do the test. But if you don't already have their debit card and don't want it if it does have a 1% fee, or not in Thailand/overseas right now to do a test I can understand your question.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Vagabond, re the VPN issue, yes, if you are nervous about installing an .exe file on your PC, as Pib noted, then using a PPTP version of a VPN should allay your concerns. PPTP is natively supported in Windows and even in newer versions of Android OS, so it can be used on most newer Android mobile phones and tablets as well, just by setting it up in the OS and entering the correct user ID, password and server address for your account.

I used to use Witopia.net for several years, and they offer different accounts that provide either just PPTP ($50/year, less expensive) or both PPTP and Open VPN ($70/yr, more expensive). But they were a good provider and I was satisfied with their service. I only dropped them a year or so ago after they stopped including in their accounts what had been a password-secured proxy service that was much faster than VPN for U.S. video streaming.

One of the nice things about Witopia is they have a very long list of international server locations and well as many cities inside the U.S., and you can pick and choose and change among any of them at at time without restriction. Some of the other services limit you to only a certain number of server locations or certain number of changes.

https://my.witopia.net/?a=services

[Pib]

I have a TD Ameritrade account and called them regarding their debit card. I called twice, 1st call to get information then 2nd call to confirm the information. Of course, I got 2 different answers regarding their foreign transaction fee. The 1st rep said, there was no fee, while the 2nd rep said there was a 1% fee. Add the possibility that like Fidelity, we are told there is a 1% visa fee but actually the fee is not passed to us. I am hoping someone has used their debit card overseas and can clarify their fee policy.

As much as I hated what Schwab did, I really miss their card. It was the Emperor of DCs.

"If" you already have their debit card just give it a test. Go to an AEON ATM, withdraw Bt500, and then see if a separate 1% fee or a 1% lower exchange rate charge hits your account...worst case you get hit with 1% in fees which amounts to a 5 baht (16 cents) fee/lower exchange rate to do the test. But if you don't already have their debit card and don't want it if it does have a 1% fee, or not in Thailand/overseas right now to do a test I can understand your question.

I did some looking at the TD Ameritrade and TD Bank websites. Both have a debit cards which apparently have slightly different rules/fees. It seems the TD Bank debit card (tied to a TD Bank checking account) does pass along the Visa currency conversion fee when reading their weasel word description of fees/note codes. But when reading the TD Ameritrade weasel word fees I got the impression they didn't pass along the Visa currency conversion fee for their debit card (tied to the brokerage account). And then you get into variables such as certain accounts have different fee rules...some would have typical fees waived. But neither card appeared to reimburse any ATM fees occurring outside the US/Canada. Enough to hurt you head.

But below is a couple of posts of people who apparently use TD Ameritrade debit cards (not to be confused with the TD Bank debit card) and it appears the 1% Visa currency conversion fee has not be passed along to them.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

TD Bank (as opposed to TD Ameritrade) used to be good when it came to ATM fees, both not charging ATM fees and reimbursing the fees of other banks. But all that changed back in 2011, and now for regular accounts they no longer reimburse other banks' ATM fees and it looks like their own basic checking accounts have a $2.50 flat fee for using non-TD ATMs (apparently in the U.S. or outside the U.S.). I didn't see anything one way or the other about a x% foreign currency fee being assessed by TD Bank, though.

http://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/2011/02/new-atm-fees-for-td-bank-checking-accounts-tips-to-avoid-atm-fees.html

Edited August 2, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

By the way, in the course of rooting around along with Pib about Vagabond's question, I came across a just posted travel blog article that gives a pretty good overview of foreign banking fees, and which U.S. banks are doing what with them focusing on debit card use/ATM withdrawals.

Here's the link to that article, which is pretty long and goes into a fair amount of detail:

Avoiding ATM Withdrawal Fees When Traveling Abroad

by The Points Guy on July 30, 2013 · 67 comments

in Points Guy Pointers, TPG Contributors

Although using ATM’s when traveling abroad is generally a smart strategy for getting the best exchange rates for your dollars, many ATM transactions come with fees that cancel out any savings you might expect. Luckily, as TPG contributor Nick Ewen illustrates, there are some ways to avoid these fees, including knowing which foreign banks your US bank partners with.

http://thepointsguy.com/2013/07/avoiding-atm-withdrawal-fees-when-traveling-abroad/

I'm not sure, though, the author's comment about Citibank is entirely clear. While Citibank ATMs in BKK for a long time didn't charge any 150b ATM withdrawal fee when I used any of my U.S. debit cards, the last few times I've tried with those same cards, the Citibank ATMs here tried to charge the 150b Thai banks foreign VISA card withdrawal fee.

It's also not clear whether the author means doing a Citibank ATM transaction using one of Citi's cards or any VISA/MC debit card.

But some of the commenters on the article posted experiences with Citi abroad the same as mine here in Thailand:

Windycityf

I got hit with fees using a Citibank ATM with my Citibank card in Bali.

markbanshee

I went out of my way to get to the Citi branch in Ginza, Tokyo and I was still hit with a hefty fee. I complained a great deal when I got home and they did nothing for me. Their excuse was silly, something about having to charge because that bank doesn’t see US customers as account holders even though I am. I guess its different with the Euro branches, but I was annoyed

Johnny

Citibank “officially” doesn’t charge if you are a CITI customer and it is a CITI branch outside of USA BUT in practice this is not the case. I have banked with them for 10years and have pulled money from over 30 countries. They ALWAYS charge the fee of 3%… after numerous complaints and escalating the issue, their response has always been that the foreign atms are “separate legal entities” and not CITIBANK USA therefore subject to the 3%.. readers beware! good post though… I may switch to TD!

PS - Especially for Jim -- look at all the reader comments below the original article and the many many comments endorsing Schwab...

Edited August 2, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK