'Trayvon Martin could have been me' - Barack Obama

[Steely Dan]

Mass protests? So it's okay to allow mob rule?

Winnable? Good luck even bringing up charges. The FBI found no evidence that this was a racially motivated attack. Zimmerman took a black girl to the prom, tutored black kids, helped some black homeless guy and voted for Obama. Yeah there will be no problem to bring him up on civil rights charges because he's obviously a racist.

Refer to the witness of the girl on the phone with Trayvon before he was murdered. He felt harassed and chased by Zimmerman. He had no idea who Zimmerman was. That's the evidence.

I see there are mass protests now to bring Zimmerman up on federal civil rights charges. I see no problem in a complete investigation to see if the charges are legally justified and also reasonably winnable. That's a fair demand. But it's not a fair demand to insist on the charges if they don't have the evidence.

The best bet against Zimmerman was already blown and that was the manslaughter charge. They clearly overcharged from the start.

Alas, the word 'racist' does not mean what it used to in the minds of the left, to them it's a label they have sole right to use and are sole arbiters of what constitutes evidence to prove their accusation.

[JLCrab]

Many bad mouth and disrespect our President Barrack H. Obama because he is (Oh My God a Black President).

Not many. Some. However, most of us who disrespect him do it for different reasons. He has purposely divided the country for political gain and his policies overseas and domestically are hastening the decline of what was a great nation.

I could care less what color he is.

Well baring the unforeseen there are 1279 days until the JAN 2017 Presidential Inauguration when a new US President and a real American may take over like Mark Rubio (whose parents were born in Cuba) or Ted Cruz (whose father was born in Cuba or barring any birther challenges as Ted himself was born in Canada) or even George P. Bush (son of JEB whose Mother was born in Mexico)

Edited July 21, 2013 by JLCrab

[SteeleJoe]

You should also be disappointed at this president for not really giving two sh%ts about blacks who kill blacks on a daily basis but goes all sentimental when a non black kills a black.

"If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin." Puke!

Hmmm so Trayvon Martin could have been president Obama 35 years ago. Does that mean Mr Obama was also suspended from school and had been involved in drug taking and potentially dealing too? Of course we shall never know as Obama has sealed all records relating to his past, which makes them one of the few places the NSA and FBI don't monitor, Mosques being the other exception.

Without getting into details, it is public knowledge that if Obama had been CAUGHT during his naughty youth phase of illegal drug involvement, he would not only never have been president, he would more likely had been a felon on the early death road like so many other young African Americans. Given this reality, I am very disappointed that Obama has not shown more leadership on the issue of drug laws and how the laws ruin many more lives than the drugs.

We've seen this one a lot.*

I have no position on how much the President cares and his failure to give what you regard as appropriate attention to the two different things, but they ARE two different things. There's no inherent hypocrisy in lamenting the perceived fact (accurate or not, sincere or not) of a killing with race as a factor and not doing the same with the many without: if the US is still a place where a man can be killed BECAUSE he's black ( not just because he happens to be, like Trayvon(?) and the many victims of black murderers), that is horrible and sad in a different way than the fact that we have as much crime as we do (or that so much of it is committed by black males). And it is a separate issue.

Indeed it would be both wrong and idiotic to suggest that the deaths of black murder victims are tragic BECAUSE they are black - which would be implicit if Obama were to go on record speaking about all black victims.

* (In many cases, I know it's because it's very appealing to people who really need to highlight racism in blacks so as to feel better about white racism: perhaps is also fun for those people because a great number of those killings are of criminals by other criminals - ie black males - like Trayvon - get killed because they are up to no good.)

[SteeleJoe]

I've given the thread a few moments thought now.

I'm hoping this thread might show some understanding and empathy for Trayvon and for his family, friends - and to include the larger picture of young black males in the United States whose legacy is 200 years of slavery and another hundred years of Jim Crow laws. Destroyed families from their outset.

However, I see my worst fears of this thread topic are already being realized. The other side is in fact the other side, i.e., it hasn't any feeling for a kid who got very nervous about some little white sh*t following him in silence with eyeballs fixed on him.

The other side is devoid of human feeling, sympathy, caring for the black kid, the deceased. Can't put themselves in the other fellow's shoes and haven't the slightest interest in trying to do so. To them Martin is bad, Zimmerman is good. White is right and if you're black get to the back.

The SOS is polluting this thread too.

Empathy for a hood that attacked a man that just happened to be carrying a weapon to defend himself? That is the funniest thing I have read all day. Thanks for that.

I'll stop now and I can tell this thread will digress quickly and I want to stay out of the ban zone. One cannot debate with a person that has a 180 degree diametrically opposite view of reality without becoming incensed with the stupidity of the premise for the argument. Much like wrestling with pigs. You both get dirty but the pig likes it.

Zimmerman "just happened to be carrying a weapon"...

Classic.

[SteeleJoe]

I can guarantee you if a black man had shot Trayvon neither the media nor obama would give a hoot.

Wow, that's original.

1) The OBVIOUS issue here is that some believe race was a factor in the killing and in the acquittal.

2) If many people felt a black murderer had gotten away with an unjustified killing (as many do in this instance), there would be outrage. That it would likely be nowhere as big a deal if the victim were black, is a sad fact of US society.

[keemapoot]

I can guarantee you if a black man had shot Trayvon neither the media nor obama would give a hoot.

Wow, that's original.

1) The OBVIOUS issue here is that some believe race was a factor in the killing and in the acquittal.

2) If many people felt a black murderer had gotten away with an unjustified killing (as many do in this instance), there would be outrage. That it would likely be nowhere as big a deal if the victim were black, is a sad fact of US society.

Just thinking out loud, but it might be illustrative, if not too elementary, to look at the LA street gangs (most gangbangers in the world) to see how they group themselves along exclusionary racial or other divisions. The 7 broad groups are Asian, Black, Bikers, Hispanic, Italian, Russian, & White.

I haven't paid much attention to this trial and matter, but I don't seem to see this framed as a Hispanic vs. Black racial issue, more as a White vs. Black issue. In other words, it seems everyone has piled up on one side or the other, with those on the pro-white side saying, well, he's really Hispanic, and so he's really one of them and therefore it wasn't white vs. black. Those on the pro-black side just keep repeating the mantra that blacks have always been underprivileged and discriminated against.

Anyway, the gangs in LA seem to have this down to a simple formula. White is not Black is not Hispanic. Not sure who is bikers, but guessing I'd say they're mostly white. In my knowledge, there is a lot of animosity between blacks and Hispanic gangs, though some "blatino" girls are stunning.

Sorted.

[Ulysses G.]

There have been something like 500 black people killed in Chicago alone since Trayvon's death. Most of the perpetrators were black. They are mostly ignored because there are so many of them all over the country.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

I haven't paid much attention to this trial and matter, but I don't seem to see this framed as a Hispanic vs. Black racial issue, more as a White vs. Black issue. In other words, it seems everyone has piled up on one side or the other, with those on the pro-white side saying, well, he's really Hispanic, and so he's really one of them and therefore it wasn't white vs. black. Those on the pro-black side just keep repeating the mantra that blacks have always been underprivileged and discriminated against.

I have to disagree with your claims that most white people want to say that Zimmerman is "one of them" to take the blame off white people. They want it made plain that Zimmerman is Hispanic because those are the facts and the facts have been ignored so often in this case.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[keemapoot]

I haven't paid much attention to this trial and matter, but I don't seem to see this framed as a Hispanic vs. Black racial issue, more as a White vs. Black issue. In other words, it seems everyone has piled up on one side or the other, with those on the pro-white side saying, well, he's really Hispanic, and so he's really one of them and therefore it wasn't white vs. black. Those on the pro-black side just keep repeating the mantra that blacks have always been underprivileged and discriminated against.

I have to disgree with your calims that most white people want to say that Zimmerman is "one of them" to take the blame off white people. They want it made plain that Zimmerman is Hispanic because those are the facts and the facts have been ignored so often in this case.

You are right that those are the facts. Yet, I wonder how many Hispanics feel about this? Do they feel a black vs. Hispanic issue, or do they feel a Black vs. White issue, or neither, just one specific set of facts.

[chuckd]

Bama sees only black or white and ignores that Hispanics suffer more discrimination than blacks at the present. This is is reverse racism. Arguing Hispanic is just white sees things as Bama, only black or white. That by definition is racism and ignores that Hispanic is a protected class and they are protected for a reason.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/583538

US society, laws, has has provided blacks every opportunity, more opportunity than Hispanics, to get their shit together and even gave them a black president, yet look at the crime rate, graduation rate and etc. Hispanics have serious obstacles and graduation rates below that of blacks, yet no one is rallying for them and they are not burning the streets and looting Walmart. I don't hear the president lobbying for them.

I as a "BROWN" Hispanic, find your argument irrelevant, as your purpose attempts to use the Browns against the Black, to further your agenda.

The problems that you state, high dropout' rates, lack of opportunity, crime, lack of jobs, broken Educational system, does not lend itself for these community to change. It is the federal government that can make the changes in the law to meet the needs of all the people in The US, Brown, Black. White, Native American, The United states is made up of all the races in the world and all deserve an equal opportunity.

The case of the killing of Trayvon Martin and the acquittal of Zimmerman, is a classic case of what is wrong with the United States, A young black child who should have the basic freedom and right to walk down a street in the US. without being profiled, tracked and murdered by the Zimmerman"s of the world and then seek justice for his murder, in the Justice system of the US tried by an all white jury, and the victim is found to have cause his own death.His family is dragged though the cesspool of the U.S. justice system. where he is vilified.

How many Hispanic have a white judge as a father and that father can pick up a phone and say, don't charge my son. and the police let him go.

Zimmerman may have a trace of Hispanic blood, but he only claims to be Hispanic to prove he is not racist,

I have a trace of Irish blood but that does not make Irish.

Obama is right and regardless of your color, you have to grow up on our side of the tracks to understand the difference.

Cheers:

Obama didn't grow up on "your" side of the tracks. After his father abandoned him and his mother moved away he was raised by his white grandparents on the big island of Maui, enjoying pot and a fun filled time as a youth.

You might use another example of somebody from a deprived childhood in the future.

[kikoman]

One may post about the following they believe they have among the general population in the States. I know that the good Anglo (white people) that the indignation of this miscarriage of Justice is very high and just by the number of Justice for Trayvon rallies around the country in about a hundred cities,

Only the Extreme right wing, Jim Crows, KKK, and the bigoted and uneducated trailer people of the south, that hate to admit, generation of their ancestors have gotten it wrong and realize how the US must change to become the real American dream for all of its people.

Cheers:

[Ulysses G.]

The President and the Attorney General are black and so are Senators and Congressman and numerous multi-millionaires. Maybe it is you who are living in the past.

[geriatrickid]

Some of the unenlightened, or the don't give hoot's will attempt to soil the President grasp of the problems facing the movement towards progress in the US.

One is the problem of the mentally ill in the U S allowed to legally carry guns, like Zimmerman.

Cheers:

I think a bigger problem is the mentally ill having access to both a keyboard and a forum with which to spread their mental illness. Perhaps I just mentally ill for reading such none sense and actually bothering to respond like it makes any difference in anything.

The issue raised was valid. The mentally ill should not be allowed to carry handguns. Do you honestly believe that people on potent anti depressants should be carrying firearms in public places?

[Ulysses G.]

One in ten Americans take anti-depressants. The great majority of them are not considered "mentally ill" and neither is George Zimmerman.

[geriatrickid]

One may post about the following they believe they have among the general population in the States. I know that the good Anglo (white people) that the indignation of this miscarriage of Justice is very high and just by the number of Justice for Trayvon rallies around the country in about a hundred cities,

Only the Extreme right wing, Jim Crows, KKK, and the bigoted and uneducated trailer people of the south, that hate to admit, generation of their ancestors have gotten it wrong and realize how the US must change to become the real American dream for all of its people.

Cheers:

Take solace in knowing that many people of all backgrounds share a common concern on the case. Perhaps, Treyvan Martin will not have died in vain if his death causes some soul searching and facilitates people's understanding of the big picture.

Perhaps too, his death will save other adolescent lives when parents have a much needed talk about prejudice and bias with their kids.

As for the elderly bigots, well, time is on the side of progress. They will eventually die off.

[Jingthing]

The President and the Attorney General are black and so are Senators and Congressman and numerous multi-millionaires. Maybe it is you who are living in the past.

If you're suggesting the USA is post racial society, you are incorrect.

[geriatrickid]

One in ten Americans take anti-depressants. The great majority of them are not considered "mentally ill" and neither is George Zimmerman.

Is that so? When did the rules for prescribing anxyliotics and amphetamines change?

Please refer to the product monograph. You will find the section on adverse effects of interest, particularly the potential to exacerbate an underlying psychiatric condition.

[Tywais]

One in ten Americans take anti-depressants. The great majority of them are not considered "mentally ill" and neither is George Zimmerman.

Was curious about that stat as it seemed high but see it is actually correct. Women substantially more so.

11 percent of Americans use antidepressants, study finds

More than 1 in 10 Americans age 12 and older use antidepressants, according to a new federal study.

The woman leaning against a pillar didn't know more Americans — twice as many — take antidepressants than go to movie theaters weekly. She hadn't heard that a federal study found the meds are used by 23 percent of middle-aged women — almost one in four.

Daily Herald

[Scott]

I think the drugs being taken by Zimmerman may go beyond anti-depressants, but I will let those with more clinical experience answer that.

If the great majority of them are not considered as 'mentally ill' then what % are considered mentally ill? Generally, in giving a controlled substance /drug, there is a preliminary diagnosis.

[Ulysses G.]

[Take solace in knowing that many people of all backgrounds share a common concern on the case. Perhaps, Treyvan Martin will not have died in vain if his death causes some soul searching and facilitates people's understanding of the big picture.

One interesting statistic to come out of all this is that African-Americans are 13% of the U.S. population but commit 55% of the homicides - most against other blacks. The president touched on this (very lightly) in his speech. The African-American community needs to do a lot of thinking about this figure if they want to solve the real problems that they face.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

I suggest everyone watch the historic Obama statement on race tensions in its ENTIRETY. Taking one point out of context totally distorts the power and meaning of the message.

[Ulysses G.]

I think the drugs being taken by Zimmerman may go beyond anti-depressants, but I will let those with more clinical experience answer that.

I would love to find something on his mental health from a credible source. All I can find on Google is thousands of left-wing blogs repeating the same, exact, unsubstantiated nonsense. IMO, the fact that the prosecution did not even try to question his soundness of mind - with all the other mud slinging that they did - says a lot.

[kikoman]

One interesting point of the 307 convicts proven innocent by the Innocence Project the greatest number of them are Black these represent only 5% of the cases that still have the evidence saved, and have been freed because their DNA was not that of the killer, but they were railroaded by the same criminal justice system that acquitted Zimmerman in a case where police failed to collect evidence.

13 of those proven innocent were on Death Row, in many case's the police fabricated evidence, If the police want to convict you they will, if they do not want to convict you they simply do not collect the evidence,

Cheers:

Edited July 21, 2013 by kikoman

[Jingthing]

The prosecution didn't want to touch the area of mentally ill people legally having guns. They made a decision to not make gun control a topic in the case. They know full well some of the jury members could be gun fanatics. So that was a no win tactic even if it is relevant to social policy.

[antfish]

The President and the Attorney General are black and so are Senators and Congressman and numerous multi-millionaires. Maybe it is you who are living in the past.

If you're suggesting the USA is post racial society, you are incorrect.

I have no doubt that racism still exist and that there are still some racists and xenophobes around.

But if that plays the big role in the Martin case - i am not sure.

[keemapoot]

The President and the Attorney General are black and so are Senators and Congressman and numerous multi-millionaires. Maybe it is you who are living in the past.

If you're suggesting the USA is post racial society, you are incorrect.

I have no doubt that racism still exist and that there are still some racists and xenophobes around.

But if that plays the big role in the Martin case - i am not sure.

It certainly plays a role in public division on the verdict, much in the same way as the OJ verdict, though in the opposite direction.

[Ulysses G.]

The prosecution didn't want to touch the area of mentally ill people legally having guns. They made a decision to not make gun control a topic in the case. They know full well some of the jury members could be gun fanatics. So that was a no win tactic even if it is relevant to social policy.

Can you provide some evidence of this or is it more speculation?

Edited July 21, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

The prosecution didn't want to touch the area of mentally ill people legally having guns. They made a decision to not make gun control a topic in the case. They know full well some of the jury members could be gun fanatics. So that was a no win tactic even if it is relevant to social policy.

Can you provide some evidence of this or is it more speculation?

Do you imagine I attended the private strategy meetings of the prosecution?

It's common sense really.

So called "gun rights" are very popular in that area of the country.

[kagan]

It was a funny comment by Obama. Obama was on his way to an Ivy League education at 17, nowhere near where Treyvon was headed. Besides skin color they are worlds apart

[Jingthing]

It was a funny comment by Obama. Obama was on his way to an Ivy League education at 17, nowhere near where Treyvon was headed. Besides skin color they are worlds apart

You should watch his speech. It touched on his personal experiences being followed and feared just because he was a black man. Like pretty much all black boys and men in America. This he experienced until he became a U.S. senator.