'Trayvon Martin could have been me' - Barack Obama

[Ulysses G.]

Can you provide some evidence of this or is it more speculation?

Do you imagine I attended the private strategy meetings of the prosecution?

No. I think that you made it up and evidently, I am right.

[Bagwan]

One of the regretful things now, ( maybe always? I don't know ) is that just about every issue in the US starts with a dividing line. Democrats/Republicans, Black/White, you get the idea.

Once the barricades are built no one comes down from them. It's a modern day American tragedy.

Tell me a country where dividing lines aren't an issue? True in every country around the world.

Eh....the UK doesn't split like this. Yes we have our hardcore left wingers, and we have our hard nosed right wingers, but the vast majority of people will look at issues on their merits.

Yeah, right. We saw that so much during the funeral events for Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Not! I believe that you are looking through some pretty thick rose-colored glasses.

Reality is that Great Britain, and many other nations, have their own political divisions every bit as much as the United States. It's the price that is there when nations, like Great Britain and the United States, allow their citizens political freedoms .

Just how many hardcore left wingers demonstrated at Maggies funeral? And what is the population of the UK? The political middle ground who are in the vast majority knew that things couldn't continue as they had and that the Socialists didn't have the balls to take appropriate action. Most of those who demonstrated were the great unwashed who made whingeing a profession. Who do you blame for Detroit's current plight? . Am I right in assuming it may be laid at the door of greedy, easily led workers and weak, gutless management?

The people who hated Maggie were those who were led by the nose by rabid TU leaders and gloried in a 'nanny' state. I have met a few that said they joined the Royal Navy because their fathers marched them down to the recruiting office as they didn't want their sons following them down the pit, or being factory fodder. Maggie did everybody a favour closing loss making concerns, and did the aforementioned fathers or prospective fathers one too, in ensuring that their offspring had a brighter future.

[gl555]

In other words, that's a 'no' on evidence. Just more random speculation.

The prosecution didn't want to touch the area of mentally ill people legally having guns. They made a decision to not make gun control a topic in the case. They know full well some of the jury members could be gun fanatics. So that was a no win tactic even if it is relevant to social policy.

Can you provide some evidence of this or is it more speculation?

Do you imagine I attended the private strategy meetings of the prosecution?

It's common sense really.

So called "gun rights" are very popular in that area of the country.

[Ulysses G.]

Just based on the fact he was taking prescribe dosages of the medication proves Zimmerman actions could have been caused and were dictated by those drugs on the day of the shooting.

They could have been caused by the full moon or high tide too, but there is no evidence of that either.

[Jingthing]

A full justice department investigation is warranted but if after that they feel they don't really have a winning case, they should not even try. I seriously doubt they will have a good case. Not that Zimmerman isn't really guilty of at least manslaughter, of course he is, but that shot has been fired already.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[kikoman]

"Justice Department places a "hold" on Trayvon Martin trial evidence- including George Zimmermabs gun-which Florida law says must be returned to him"

Great News

Cheers

[Lancelot]

How could Mr. Martin be like Mr. Obama? Mr. Obama's mother was white and he grew up in relative comfort and opportunity.

The night Mr. Martin died, I believe six other youn black men were murdered- by other blacks. Where is the outrage about that?

Perhaps Mr. Obama should also address the issue of black on black violence...

Edited July 21, 2013 by Lancelot

[Chicog]

The people who hated Maggie were those who were led by the nose by rabid TU leaders and gloried in a 'nanny' state. I have met a few that said they joined the Royal Navy because their fathers marched them down to the recruiting office as they didn't want their sons following them down the pit, or being factory fodder. Maggie did everybody a favour closing loss making concerns, and did the aforementioned fathers or prospective fathers one too, in ensuring that their offspring had a brighter future.

Romantic tosh that doesn't really reflect the destruction of Britain's manufacturing industries.

But why is it in this thread?

[gl555]

So? They still don't have enough to get him on civil rights violation since you know, he isn't a racist.

If you're happy that he doesn't have a firearm anymore. Umm, he can always buy another one or may even have another. I read somewhere a gun store offered him a new one for free. That IS great news!

"Justice Department places a "hold" on Trayvon Martin trial evidence- including George Zimmermabs gun-which Florida law says must be returned to him"

Great News

Cheers

[Jingthing]

The justice department case if there is one after the investigation won't be based on whether Zimmerman "is" a racist or not. That's not really the point.

[gl555]

So? They still don't have enough to get him on civil rights violation since you know, he isn't a racist.

If you're happy that he doesn't have a firearm anymore. Umm, he can always buy another one or may even have another. I read somewhere a gun store offered him a new one for free. That IS great news!

"Justice Department places a "hold" on Trayvon Martin trial evidence- including George Zimmermabs gun-which Florida law says must be returned to him"

Great News

Cheers

[gl555]

It IS the point.

The FBI investigation said the attack wasn't racially motivated. And there's no pattern of racist behavior by Zimmerman. So how are they going to charge Zimmerman? Enlighten us.

The justice department case if there is one after the investigation won't be based on whether Zimmerman "is" a racist or not. That's not really the point.

Edited July 21, 2013 by gl555

[SteeleJoe]

The only change is the name of the child that was murdered in the 50's it was 14 year old "Emmett Till".

Today it is i7 year old Trayvon Martin.

Cheers:

I can't stomach that though I thought I'd see it sooner or later.

The murder of Emmett Till is something that struck a deep chord within me upon reading of it as a boy. So much so that I have over the last nearly 40 years done as much study of it as I could and even written on it fairly extensively. I want to say unequivocally that the comparison is absurd, inane and offensive.

[SteeleJoe]

...

Obama says Trayvon Martin could have been him 35 years ago? I sorely wish it had been.

I am reading that as a wish that our U.S. president had been murdered 35 years ago. Please confirm. If so, that's about an extreme as expression of Obama Derangement Syndrome as you're likely to find.

Fortunately the Secret Service, were it to read the comment at this forum, likely would not consider the statement to be a threat worthy of pursuit, but a threat nonetheless.

The post is best deleted as we don't know whether the US Embassy monitors these kinds of websites to identify such remarks, what with NSA, FBI at the embassy etc.

There was more than one such comment, just perhaps slightly more veiled.

[Jingthing]

It IS the point.

The FBI investigation said the attack wasn't racially motivated. And there's no pattern of racist behavior by Zimmerman. So how are they going to charge Zimmerman? Enlighten us.

The justice department case if there is one after the investigation won't be based on whether Zimmerman "is" a racist or not. That's not really the point.

Let the investigation happen. It's about the killing EVENT. Not the life history of the killer.

This is the justice department, not the FBI.

I don't think they'll be able to make a case either, but keep an open mind at this point.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[SteeleJoe]

Refer to the witness of the girl on the phone with Trayvon before he was murdered. He felt harassed and chased by Zimmerman. He had no idea who Zimmerman was. That's the evidence.

I see there are mass protests now to bring Zimmerman up on federal civil rights charges. I see no problem in a complete investigation to see if the charges are legally justified and also reasonably winnable. That's a fair demand. But it's not a fair demand to insist on the charges if they don't have the evidence.

The best bet against Zimmerman was already blown and that was the manslaughter charge. They clearly overcharged from the start.

Neither did Zimmerman knew who Trayvon was.

Right. But Zimmerman was carrying a gun and the dead boy wasn't. Turns out Zimmerman was the one out looking for trouble that night, not the murder victim.

The president's remarks:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/politics/obama-tryavon-martin-could-have-been-me-35-years-ago/2013/07/19/1bd5fa26-f09b-11e2-9008-61e94a7ea20d_video.html

The fact that Zimmerman was carrying a gun has nothing to do with this, as it was a coincidence that he was licensed to carry a gun whare the victim wasn't.

Errr...the fact that one party in a confrontation was carrying a gun has nothing to do with a subsequent shooting?

It wasn't a "coincidence" that Zimmerman was licensed. It didn't happen to him randomly, he made it happen (as is his right) and he chose to carry it when he went out to follow the young man. Legal? Yes. Reasonable? Some would say so. Coincidental? Of course not.

[gl555]

So no you don't have anything to add on how Holder's Justice Department is going to charge Zimmerman. I'm interested to see how Holder is going to skirt around the investigation his own FBI has already conducted.

It IS the point.

The FBI investigation said the attack wasn't racially motivated. And there's no pattern of racist behavior by Zimmerman. So how are they going to charge Zimmerman? Enlighten us.

The justice department case if there is one after the investigation won't be based on whether Zimmerman "is" a racist or not. That's not really the point.

Let the investigation happen. It's about the killing EVENT. Not the life history of the killer.

[SteeleJoe]

So Helen Thomas died today......I was just reading her Wiki page, here's just about the first quote.

"We were never hyphenated as Arab-Americans. We were American, and I have always rejected the hyphen and I believe all assimilated immigrants should not be designated ethnically. Or separated, of course, by race, or creed either. These are trends that ever try to divide us as a people."

Awesome, no need for anti discrimination laws anymore because we are all Americans and Americans is not a protected classification in America. Oh wait, Bama still refers to people by race so we need him to stop with dividing people by race. It's unhealthy.

Man, you've really become obsessive about the president.

How could someone like yourself, not a stupid man, suggest something so moronic as the president somehow being the only one to observe racial difference - or even that he is a significant reason why such differences are commonly observed?

[Jingthing]

It's a new investigation we're talking about. It is certainly possible that they will discover new information that is relative to the case and justifies a civil rights charge. I don't think it's likely but it's possible. Of course I can't speak to the details of what they might find. Only insiders could.

[SteeleJoe]

How could Mr. Martin be like Mr. Obama? Mr. Obama's mother was white and he grew up in relative comfort and opportunity.

The night Mr. Martin died, I believe six other youn black men were murdered- by other blacks. Where is the outrage about that?

Perhaps Mr. Obama should also address the issue of black on black violence...

And another one making the same tired fallacious "point".

You are effectively saying, 'why aren't people decrying the role race played in a killing in instances where there's obviously no racial component?'

Work it out.

[gl555]

Of course. Only 'insiders' know. Yeah I thought as much. You're once again offering an opinion that you're mistaking for 'truth'.

If the FBI can't dig up dirt on Zimmerman after a year of investigation, there's nothing there to find. Of course, that's just my opinion, i'm not an 'insider'.

It's a new investigation we're talking about. It is certainly possible that they will discover new information that is relative to the case and justifies a civil rights charge. I don't think it's likely but it's possible. Of course I can't speak to the details of what they might find. Only insiders could.

[Jingthing]

Of course. Only 'insiders' know. Yeah I thought as much. You're once again offering an opinion that you're mistaking for 'truth'.

If the FBI can't dig up dirt on Zimmerman after a year of investigation, there's nothing there to find. Of course, that's just my opinion, i'm not an 'insider'.

It's a new investigation we're talking about. It is certainly possible that they will discover new information that is relative to the case and justifies a civil rights charge. I don't think it's likely but it's possible. Of course I can't speak to the details of what they might find. Only insiders could.

You might be right. But unlike you, I have an open mind. Cheers.

[mopar71]

The President and the Attorney General are black and so are Senators and Congressman and numerous multi-millionaires. Maybe it is you who are living in the past.

If you're suggesting the USA is post racial society, you are incorrect.

If so, it is the people on the left side of politics who are keeping it that way. Myself and many others were taught and believe that black, yellow, white, brown, whatever people are all the same. Work hard, study hard, apply yourself and you to can take advantage of the opportunities out there in the world. Others think that black and brown are not as good as white or yellow and because of that they need special help. They need to be pandered to. They need to keep the black and brown people believing they are victims so they can count on their vote in order to stay in power. And they get that vote too despite decades of failed policies.Those people are true racists.

[Jingthing]

The President and the Attorney General are black and so are Senators and Congressman and numerous multi-millionaires. Maybe it is you who are living in the past.

If you're suggesting the USA is post racial society, you are incorrect.

If so, it is the people on the left side of politics who are keeping it that way. Myself and many others were taught and believe that black, yellow, white, brown, whatever people are all the same. Work hard, study hard, apply yourself and you to can take advantage of the opportunities out there in the world. Others think that black and brown are not as good as white or yellow and because of that they need special help. They need to be pandered to. They need to keep the black and brown people believing they are victims so they can count on their vote in order to stay in power. And they get that vote too despite decades of failed policies.Those people are true racists.

It sounds like you have an ideology, a myth of a level playing field, that is far removed from actual reality.

[gl555]

Having an open mind and hoping desperately something happens are 2 different things altogether.

Of course. Only 'insiders' know. Yeah I thought as much. You're once again offering an opinion that you're mistaking for 'truth'.

If the FBI can't dig up dirt on Zimmerman after a year of investigation, there's nothing there to find. Of course, that's just my opinion, i'm not an 'insider'.

It's a new investigation we're talking about. It is certainly possible that they will discover new information that is relative to the case and justifies a civil rights charge. I don't think it's likely but it's possible. Of course I can't speak to the details of what they might find. Only insiders could.

You might be right. But unlike you, I have an open mind. Cheers.

[Jingthing]

Having an open mind and hoping desperately something happens are 2 different things altogether.

Its too late for what I had hoped for, a conviction of Zimmerman for manslaughter which he well deserved.

[mopar71]

Today Mail on line.

"Justice Department places ":hold" on Trayvon Martin trial evidence, including George Zimmerman's gun- which Florida Law says must be returned to him"

Killer not to get his toy back!

Cheers:

Others are already offering to buy him a new one. If the gov't illegally tries to block that. you can expect he'll volunteer bodyguards. That'll end well I'm sure.

[mopar71]

If you're suggesting the USA is post racial society, you are incorrect.

If so, it is the people on the left side of politics who are keeping it that way. Myself and many others were taught and believe that black, yellow, white, brown, whatever people are all the same. Work hard, study hard, apply yourself and you to can take advantage of the opportunities out there in the world. Others think that black and brown are not as good as white or yellow and because of that they need special help. They need to be pandered to. They need to keep the black and brown people believing they are victims so they can count on their vote in order to stay in power. And they get that vote too despite decades of failed policies.Those people are true racists.

It sounds like you have an ideology, a myth of a level playing field, that is far removed from actual reality.

There are plenty of hardworking, successful blacks who agree with me.

[Tywais]

Fake photo of Martin removed and reply to it.

[mopar71]

So, the Justice Department is going to investigate this case further, to find something, anything, that they could use to convict Zimmerman after a jury found him "not guilty"? I would be nice if they would put this much effort into the many real scandals going on such as the IRS targeting scandal. The American people should be flooding the streets in protest. The gov't gets caught red-handed in all these scandals and heads should roll, but they successfully distract the people by going after Zimmerman? We Americans have many serious issues to be concerned with. It is embarrassing that we - as a nation - can get distracted by such tripe. There was a trial, there was a verdict. Move on. Move on to the real problems facing the nation.