Thailand's bus operators risk passenger safety for profits: expert

[hellodolly]

Thai logic is that laws exist to be broken.

The provincial courts are overloaded

Prisons overcrowded and police relaxed.

On the other hand, imagine the chaos when the law suddenly will be strictly enforced?

Then even the police will get overstressed.

As in all my comments on these sort of issues, there was loss of live involved.....Thai and/or foreigner is of no importance.

If we read between the lines there is no such things as Thai Rak Thai only Thai Rak Ngern.

Sad really!

Now you have brought up a very interesting point.

How do the courts and the prisons get overloaded if the BIB are not doing their job?

Can we own a cake and eat it to and still have it?

[harrry]

Interesting the google ad on this page:

Book your Express Bus Tickets online....

A couple of pictures of high double deck busses too.

[Espinete]

Hello just to add my comments.I am from a motor engineering background. I worked in the workshops of a large steelworks in the north of england and also with the Go Ahead group in Wallsend norrth east. The UK has strict laws on bus operators and other PSV vehicles. All of these vehicles have speed limiters and Tachograph recorders which record the drivers hours ,stops and speed over the journey.Drivers hours are regulated and heavy fines for both driver and operator are issued. The problem with Thailand is because the salaries are low they drive longer hours to get a decent wage. This would mean higher fares and wworking Thais who have 300baht per day wages would penalise their travel.If they increased the minumun wage then both the driver and the bus operator could employ more drivers and implement the UK system.Incidently I am not a rich falang and have travelled on many buses as I have lived in Thailand for almost 10 years. I have seen drivers good and badand always thank the good driver as I am getting off my destination.

But despite the ery good regulations in the U.K. still it comes to responsible bus drivers. I remember a tragic accident in France. The U.K. bus left Salou, beach resort in Spain with a front wheel bearing making noise. No time to replace. Witnesses told later the bus made regular stops at the high way to cool the bearing down by pouring buckets of water.....(which is not a long lasting help.....). They had to catch the Calais ferry to the U.K.

Frontwheel blocked, bus crashed and many persons died.

If drivers do not have the 'stop-work-authority' as you see in the oil- & gasindustry, these things will continue happening. On an oil rig (even) a cook can stop the complete production if he/she notices anything which dangers the platform and the safety.

[Thai at Heart]

Hello just to add my comments.I am from a motor engineering background. I worked in the workshops of a large steelworks in the north of england and also with the Go Ahead group in Wallsend norrth east. The UK has strict laws on bus operators and other PSV vehicles. All of these vehicles have speed limiters and Tachograph recorders which record the drivers hours ,stops and speed over the journey.Drivers hours are regulated and heavy fines for both driver and operator are issued. The problem with Thailand is because the salaries are low they drive longer hours to get a decent wage. This would mean higher fares and wworking Thais who have 300baht per day wages would penalise their travel.If they increased the minumun wage then both the driver and the bus operator could employ more drivers and implement the UK system.Incidently I am not a rich falang and have travelled on many buses as I have lived in Thailand for almost 10 years. I have seen drivers good and badand always thank the good driver as I am getting off my destination.

But despite the ery good regulations in the U.K. still it comes to responsible bus drivers. I remember a tragic accident in France. The U.K. bus left Salou, beach resort in Spain with a front wheel bearing making noise. No time to replace. Witnesses told later the bus made regular stops at the high way to cool the bearing down by pouring buckets of water.....(which is not a long lasting help.....). They had to catch the Calais ferry to the U.K.

Frontwheel blocked, bus crashed and many persons died.

If drivers do not have the 'stop-work-authority' as you see in the oil- & gasindustry, these things will continue happening. On an oil rig (even) a cook can stop the complete production if he/she notices anything which dangers the platform and the safety.

What would get everyone's attention would be if the owners of the companies were liable for criminal negligence and damages if they are reponsible for accidents. Of course, that all adds cost to everything to maintain stuff properly and purchase high quality stuff, but that is where Thailand will have to go to, if they want to stop this type of stuff.

[trainman34014]

Two words that Thai's know little about......'Consequence' and 'Responsibility'.

To them, the first means....The Consequence of me doing something properly within rules and laws is.....less money in my bank account.

To them, the second means....If i do something wrong and as a result of my actions people die; no worries, i will never be held responsible for what i have done.

In the West we are taught Consequence and Responsibility right from the start when we are small children and until Thailand starts changing its core values and teaches children right from wrong there is little or no chance of standards improving throughout Thai society. Don't hold your breath because it's light years away yet !

[TackyToo]

Every rule under the sun.

Zero enforcement

A company with permanent representation in the accident statistics is the Transport Co, which operates directly under the Transport Ministry. One of the senior officials in the Ministry of Transport made ​​the following comment on the situation:

"We are aware of the need for security, because it is our own business. We cannot really hurt yourself, "he said as he to the frequent passenger bus accident was questioned. This is a mockery!

The Transport Co maintains the largest intercity bus services in the country and gives concessions to private companies offering similar services. In reality, they compete with each other to attract passengers, especially on some popular routes such as Bangkok to Chiang Mai, Phuket and Hat Yai. The state agency conducts directly all the drivers, as well as the technical condition of the buses. And right there lays the problem! For a few baht under the table, these companies get the most horrible gout gondolas through the "inspection ceremony" of the ministry.

[klauskunkel]

Most 8-wheel double-deckers are a lot higher than allowed, academic warns

Oiiii, it takes an academic to measure the height of a bus...

[Suffinator]

Does it comes as any surprise - money before lives? This article didn't hold back on it's criticism

Uncovering the Dangers of Tour Buses in Thailand

[steveyinasia]

Promote this guy to Minister for the Bleeding Obvious

[hansnl]

That is what happens if the "market" gets too much influence.

Everywhere where Governments decide to let the "market" do their thing and the Government decides not to control and enforce control, the companies will do anything to save a few pennies, in this case, satang.

When a formerly state enterprise is taken over or sold to the "market", first thing that goes out is safety.

Which is understandable, a company is there to make a profit.

And that is exactly where it goes wrong.

Making a profit in public transport is impossible without skating on very thin ice.

[Thai at Heart]

Every rule under the sun.

Zero enforcement

A company with permanent representation in the accident statistics is the Transport Co, which operates directly under the Transport Ministry. One of the senior officials in the Ministry of Transport made ​​the following comment on the situation:

"We are aware of the need for security, because it is our own business. We cannot really hurt yourself, "he said as he to the frequent passenger bus accident was questioned. This is a mockery!

The Transport Co maintains the largest intercity bus services in the country and gives concessions to private companies offering similar services. In reality, they compete with each other to attract passengers, especially on some popular routes such as Bangkok to Chiang Mai, Phuket and Hat Yai. The state agency conducts directly all the drivers, as well as the technical condition of the buses. And right there lays the problem! For a few baht under the table, these companies get the most horrible gout gondolas through the "inspection ceremony" of the ministry.

I am sure at a point the transport company was a government company offering bus services owning their own fleet. And then someone came up with the idea that there wasn't enough money in that, so they came up with contracting privateers to run it for a fee. And the mess began.

Private business protected by government licence. Lovely business if you can get it.

[atyclb]

Being a Thai academic with "outside the box" real critical thinking must be the loneliest perhaps most frustrating job in the world. Society is typically apathetically unaware/numb and government/police; well you already know about them.

[Thai at Heart]

Every rule under the sun.

Zero enforcement

A company with permanent representation in the accident statistics is the Transport Co, which operates directly under the Transport Ministry. One of the senior officials in the Ministry of Transport made ​​the following comment on the situation:

"We are aware of the need for security, because it is our own business. We cannot really hurt yourself, "he said as he to the frequent passenger bus accident was questioned. This is a mockery!

The Transport Co maintains the largest intercity bus services in the country and gives concessions to private companies offering similar services. In reality, they compete with each other to attract passengers, especially on some popular routes such as Bangkok to Chiang Mai, Phuket and Hat Yai. The state agency conducts directly all the drivers, as well as the technical condition of the buses. And right there lays the problem! For a few baht under the table, these companies get the most horrible gout gondolas through the "inspection ceremony" of the ministry.

I am sure at a point the transport company was a government company offering bus services owning their own fleet. And then someone came up with the idea that there wasn't enough money in that, so they came up with contracting privateers to run it for a fee. And the mess began.

Private business protected by government licence. Lovely business if you can get it.

[allalong]

Does it comes as any surprise - money before lives? This article didn't hold back on it's criticism Uncovering the Dangers of Tour Buses in Thailand

. Good articles if it only highlights the obvious .I love it that Chinese officials are laying it out plain and simple as,in my experience they usually do,tell the Thai "If you dont start taking action we will issue advise not to travel to Thailand" And China being the state it is it could stop its citizens travelling to the country.

[monkeycountry]

We all know this. Big question is - where does this blatant disregard for people's safety and must make as much possible money at all costs mentality come from?

Just about every Thai in a government position.

Plus most Thais in non-government positions

[monkeycountry]

"...tend to use substandard materials and shun safety features to keep costs down..."

This could describe buses, highways, buildings, bridges...Just about anything built in Thailand where a payoff to an official can cut costs and put the general public in danger. If the Thai authorities had any interest in making this country safer, they would have done it already. As long as a large number of foreign tourists aren't affected there will be no incentive to change things.

"As long as a large number of foreign tourists aren't affected there will be no incentive to change things"

Are you suggesting that if the 19 dead had been foreigners, things would change?

[gemini81]

We all know this. Big question is - where does this blatant disregard for people's safety and must make as much possible money at all costs mentality come from?

They picked it up from the western countries. The only difference is the laws were changed in the western countries and the bus companies had to obey them. Payoffs got them no where. They can change their laws here but there will be no enforcement..

It would be nice if one could check and see if the various companies were living up to good standards. I am very sure their are a few out there. Also put the drivers through a rigorous driving course. That also would make a big difference. Get the government involved. We know they don't enforce traffic laws but make the BIB start doing it on the buses as their are many lives involved in each accident.

The last buss accident was not the fault of the bus. But there are valid arguments that can be put forth as to the safety of the bus after the accident in relationship to getting out of it. Never know if they would have made a difference or not. But they could still make it easier in future cases.

<deleted>? The western countries & developed countries didn't influence the lack of enforcement here. There are accidents for sure, but there are a lot of preventative measures & attempts, laws enforced, and they happen in much less amounts than here..additionally, they serve as a lesson and case study when they happen abroad......not to be repeated again and again.. How did Thais 'pick up disregard for people's lives' in the form of transportation from the west?

Edited July 26, 2013 by gemini81

[tingtongteesood]

OH my tremendous surprise. Sadly since the whole damn world is now run for profit, it is hardly surprising that people choose to line their pockets without really caring about the consequences. ALL bus services the world over should be nationalised and paid for by tax payers money for the good of the people ( same goes for hospitals, schools, emergency services etc.. ). Sadly since governments keep stealing tax payers money and wasting it on stupid crap like giving benefits to lazy people, we are stuck in this horrible lose-lose situation...You can't trust anything or anyone these days as you never know who has cut what corners to line whose pockets where, nowhere is safe any more...

[monkeycountry]

Ah Ah! Thai buses! They are a joke, like Thai police.

Look at buses in Malaysia. You will see a big difference: No super-high double deck shitty buses with poor interior and cramped seats but standard single deck with normal seats.

HEY THAILAND! Look at your more developed neighbors and copy them! (edit: copy with same quality or better...)

Edit2: And hire good drivers! Not childish ones who like to race with other bus drivers.

Perhaps you can inform me and the bus operators where the "office of good drivers" is? So I and others can go there and hire alot of good drivers. As long as one can pass a drivers license test blindfolded, and virtually no traffic laws are enforced, there will be no or very few "good drivers".

[Halion]

The editorial from the Nation is yet another example of the prolific abilities of the Thai media to react after the horse has bolted. The public transport ethic of this nation has not changed nor is it likely to do so in the forseable future. There is nothing in this article that is ground breaking or was prevoiusly not fully understood. Public transportation in Thailand is a most dangerous mode owing to the culture and attitude that exists. 19 poor souls burnt to death and the media reaction is to try to take the moral hig ground with pathetic repetitive rhetoric. They should be demanding actions and improvements. They should be demanding legal compliance, They should be demanding accountability. However this is Thailand, talk nice but do nothing.

[monkeycountry]

They should install speed restrictors in every bus and minivan, if the companies tamper with them, hit them with massive fines.

And who is going to enforce the "hit them with massive fines"? You can fill the whole bus up with GPS, speed restrictors and other control equipment, but if noone is going to check it, then what is the point?

[theblether]

I was on one of these double deckers yesterday, the step height from the top deck is ridiculous and dangerous. I counted 52 people on the top deck, in an emergency you would be seriously struggling to get out quickly. You could be sure that panic would cause a fall and or stampede.

What's the chances of the police pulling over all these buses and putting them off the road? None.

It would be great if you would mention the bus company

It's illegal to name and shame. I'll pm you.

[monkeycountry]

The truck jumped the lane and caused the head on collision, not the bus. So, why focusing the article about bus safety and not about concrete blocks to be implemented to avoid the same fate in case of future drivers falling asleep ?

Agreed, but this article is not only about the recent truck/bus collission, but about general problems with buses and bus accidents, where often the bus and/or the bus driver is the cause of the accident.

[chainarong]

So they've licensed a few imported cars and that causes a huge stink, but hundreds of illegal buses is all good.

You think maybe the cart is before the horse, I think you R right, this also applies to many other area's.

[bangkokstick]

Incredible news ! Who is the scientist who found this ???

[Johnnie99]

Seriously, did it take an 'expert' to make these statements?

I have talked to street vendors who have told me, often, as these monolithic, light-bedecked monstrosities roar past, engine covers flapping wildly as they go, that they are more often than not wooden framed death traps.

That this one was metal framed is the exception, not the rule.

[Globeman]

We all know this. Big question is - where does this blatant disregard for people's safety and must make as much possible money at all costs mentality come from?

Eternal hope and no concept of actions leading to consequences.

[ricardofel]

Hahahahaha...I don't even have to read this story, the headline says it all.....that's the essence of life in Thailand. People are expendable for profit...period!

[ableguy]

We need an expert to tell us how unsafe these things are ? the most dangerous thing on a bus is the driver.

from a none expert.

[PETERTHEEATER]

A frequent sight is ten or more of these illegal buses speeding in close convoy in the overtaking lane with a police escort car leading in front! They bulldoze other vehicles out of the way to get their precious cargo of civil servants/boy scouts/ students to their destination a few minutes early.