Khon Kaen Man Kills Ladyboy After She 'Touches His Penis'

[EyesWideOpen]

As far as I can see, there are 3 "contributors" on this thread, who really have made up their mind (or are to ignorant, stupid or what else) to learn anything and LET IT GO!

Mind you, lemoncake, Eyeswideopen (really? But mindwideshut, i guess) and anotheroneamerican: the topic of this thread is a person who got shot by another person, for touching a penis.

1) No one cares, if you think a ladyboy is a he or a she. THEY think/feel/want to be seen as they are a she. And that is IT!

You also want to be seen as intelligent human beings and...well...

2) No one cares, if you think men who F@#$ ladyboys are gay, bi or what- the -hell- ever. NO ONE CARES what you think! Really!

3) For the subject in the OP it also does not matter one bit, if 1%, 12% or 100% of ladyboys still have their Johnny or a vagina.

4) ...neither does almost any other point you are trying to make about your personal perception of ladyboys (or Pattaya...or gay-sex)...

You have hi-jacked the subject for your totally uninteresting, subjective, intolerant views on other people and their way to live or their mindset.

You have hi- jacked the subject, to accuse people of being overly tolerant to ladyboys, because most of us would totally tolerate a woman being groped, which is total BS.

Here is my question to you: if we were talking about a woman (hooker or not, under the influence of alcohol or not...) being on that bike, groping his penis and getting shot for that unspeakable crime...would you make a statement about her being a "dirty" prostitute and therefor, it would make the crime somehow less heinous?

I find it always amusing (in a very scary way) that in the 21st century, gay- or ladyboy- subjects still draw that kind of attention by people like you.

You should feel ashamed!

Yet again you have completely misunderstood most peoples posts.

The discussion is about the unfortunate consequences of the crime of 'sexual battery' ending in a murder.

In many countries of the world the murder would have been judged in some ways justified and the victim to have been partly responsible for his murder. (I'm not sure I agree, just saying how it is)

Furthermore, the arising 'off topic' discussion on ladyboy sex, I don't see posters vilifying any gays, bisexuals or ladyboys. It's a discussion on can two men have straight (heterosexual) sex with each other. The answer being no.

To sum up, I think Monty Python gave a very good answer, without any hate involved in the discussion.

Nice one on the Monty Python sketch, had not seen that before.

DocN, take a chill pill. As I stated several times, he/she/it

did not deserve to die for simply groping someone. Regarding being

off topic, I find it somewhat absurd when people are posting that when a man is having sex with another man, that is somehow not gay sex.

Again, the story of The Emperor's Clothes springs to mind. As you wish something, that does not make it so.....Regarding your lack of interest in my point of view, no problem, as I am pretty sure I can get past the emotionally crushing aspect of that rejection. Either go away and not read it, or block me. Easy !!!! :-) Also live by your own sword. If you feel so much everybody should be so tolerant, then perhaps you should be tolerant of my view as well.

DocN...

"You have hi- jacked the subject, to accuse people of being overly tolerant to ladyboys, because most of us would totally tolerate a woman being groped, which is total BS."

Huhhh ??? Cannot recall anybody advocating that viewpoint. If you walk up to a Thai woman and grab her crotch, if you are lucky you will get a slap, and if unlucky you will have a high heel stuck in the side of your head.

It, huh? That "thing" with the cock and the boobs?

I would be tolerant, if your view (and the view of some others) wouldn't be inhumane in the first place.

What you are saying is, that i should be tolerant (theoretically speaking and not making any connection to intolerant and dehumanizing remarks on this thread) towards Nazis as well?

Oh...well...

Nazis ???? Wow, nice piece of work to bring them into this... LOL

You are telling me a ladyboy is not a man because they believe they are not. I am saying they are a man because that is how they were born, and plus there is a dick between their legs. So since according to us they belong to neither group, what is left? Some strange PC word such as pre-op transgender? Too funny for words....

And on a closing note, if they would cease being a one group crime wave, myself and many other posters here would have a far more benign attitude towards them.....I do like the way one poster referred to them as an " infestation", as that is something I have thought myself sometimes as I am fighting off being pickpocketed by them . But I will be the first to admit it certainly is a growth business. Not really sure why, whether more and more punters want them, or the pick pocket gangs are just increasing in size.....

[ginjag]

Ladyboys (as used by Ladyboys themselves) is a catch-all term for transgender people and what westerners would call camp, gay men even if they have short hair and have not taken hormones.

Transvestites are men who dress up as women . . . . completely different

Ladyboys themselves prefer the pronouns 'she and her' WHY NOT SIMPLY RESPECT THAT.

The reason that a lot of them are so tough is the prejudice they face from people like some of you. Stop referring to ladyboys as gay men as they are very different in mant aspects.

Waverider or whatever your name is . . . . .I suggest you take care with your downward thrusts of your arm designed to hurt someone . . . . you may wind up with worse than a grope. I suggest you stop walking down soi 6 if you don't like ladyboys touching you . . . . I have NEVER been bothered on any other soi even in Pattaya . . . .I bet you secretly love it!

Once again . . . . lets remember we are talking about Pattaya and prostitutes . . . do not generalise this to the girl who was killed.

What girl was killed? I thought OP was about man being killed

Good Idea to focus on the killer, not if the victim was a he or a she, for gods sake get your heads straight. Maybe if the victim was your offspring would you be talking like this. the person also has loved ones and family, show a little gentleness-whatever her indecent act was or her lifestyle. She died -and if anyone thinks she/he deserved to die I feel sorry for their attitude.

[Emptyset]

Don't know why this article keeps referring to the khatoey as a 'she'. They are men.

It's not about sex organs, it’s about gender identity, the sex they prefer to be referred to by society.

The word 'katoey' may be used to refer to a transvestite, male-to-female transsexual or a effeminate gay man.

The term "Ladyboy" tends to suggest either a transvestite or male-to-female transsexual who identifies more with the female gender even though they were born with male genitalia. As such they should be referred to as "she", "her".

BTW the third person pronoun for he/she/him/her/they/them in Thai language (เขา) is non-gender specific.

Agree. Also, in the interests of context, the idea of a man identifying as gay is a recent thing in Thai culture (dating back to the early 60s - a western import really). There's long been a history of kathoeys, before sex changes were possible, they were either simply effeminate men that took the passive role in sex or perhaps they were tranvestites who presented as women*. Either way, they were always considered to be of the feminine gender (or at least of the 'third sex') because sexuality was conceived of in terms of gender roles rather than sexual acts. This idea still persists to some extent, although, as I say, following western culture there's now the idea that one can be a 'straight'-acting, masculine gay man. In the past such men probably wouldn't have identified as gay as the concept didn't exist, they would've likely would've got married and slept with kathoeys - or other 'straight' men - on the side. Nothing unusual about that in Thai culture, it was fairly common and accepted. There's also a concept of bisexuality, seua-bai, bisexual tiger, which as the name suggests can actually be thought of positively by society as an expression of greater masculinity (as one exerts one's power of both sexes - always assuming the 'straight' guy takes the dominant role, of course). But I think that's a fairly new concept, which arose with the development of homosexual identity. As I said before, there was no homosexual identity in Thai culture before the mid 20th century, there were simply homosexual acts. As you say, effeminate gay men are still sometimes referred to as kathoeys but it tends to be considered derogatory.

*Though it's worth noting that strictly differentiated gender roles aren't universal. In fact, I recall reading something (IIRC) a British anthropologist who studied gender in rural Thailand in the late 1940s wrote. According to him there were only slight differences in outward appearance between men and women and no strict division of labour either. That's also something that came with capitalist development and western influence.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Emptyset

[DavidBonnie]

yes Lemoncake she was probably more of a man than you 555

[Jingthing]

Agree. Also, in the interests of context, the idea of a man identifying as gay as a recent thing in Thai culture (dating back to the early 60s - a western import really).

...

Careful, according to one our outspoken posters on the gay forum, gay as an identity group dates back to ANCIENT times in Thailand ...

But I agree with you. It's a recent WESTERN import.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Jingthing

[belg]

this story seems to be full of holes, apperenlty, so does the ladyboy now

[Jingthing]

this story seems to be full of holes, apperenlty, so does the ladyboy now

Are you going for groaner of the week?

[techboy]

...

Ladyboys never seem to hang around gay bars, but always around straight men bars.

Because gay men are much less likely to be sexually be into people presenting as WOMEN than straight men. Duh!

RIP to the murder victim.

There is no excuse.

This story is a little surprising to me.

Such "sexuality panic" violence is pretty common in macho type countries, but I think a bit rare in Thailand among Thais.

Duh? Sorry dude. As someone who has lived near the night life for many years I say that you do not have a clue. The ladyboys incessantly hit on straight men. They try to convince them that they are really women and not ladyboys. They get the hots more for straight guys and make aggressive plays for them.

[lemoncake]

Ladyboys (as used by Ladyboys themselves) is a catch-all term for transgender people and what westerners would call camp, gay men even if they have short hair and have not taken hormones.

Transvestites are men who dress up as women . . . . completely different

Ladyboys themselves prefer the pronouns 'she and her' WHY NOT SIMPLY RESPECT THAT.

The reason that a lot of them are so tough is the prejudice they face from people like some of you. Stop referring to ladyboys as gay men as they are very different in mant aspects.

Waverider or whatever your name is . . . . .I suggest you take care with your downward thrusts of your arm designed to hurt someone . . . . you may wind up with worse than a grope. I suggest you stop walking down soi 6 if you don't like ladyboys touching you . . . . I have NEVER been bothered on any other soi even in Pattaya . . . .I bet you secretly love it!

Once again . . . . lets remember we are talking about Pattaya and prostitutes . . . do not generalise this to the girl who was killed.

What girl was killed? I thought OP was about man being killed

Good Idea to focus on the killer, not if the victim was a he or a she, for gods sake get your heads straight. Maybe if the victim was your offspring would you be talking like this. the person also has loved ones and family, show a little gentleness-whatever her indecent act was or her lifestyle. She died -and if anyone thinks she/he deserved to die I feel sorry for their attitude.

KIller was a he, no one is disputing that

[Jingthing]

...

Ladyboys never seem to hang around gay bars, but always around straight men bars.

Because gay men are much less likely to be sexually be into people presenting as WOMEN than straight men. Duh!

RIP to the murder victim.

There is no excuse.

This story is a little surprising to me.

Such "sexuality panic" violence is pretty common in macho type countries, but I think a bit rare in Thailand among Thais.

Duh? Sorry dude. As someone who has lived near the night life for many years I say that you do not have a clue. The ladyboys incessantly hit on straight men. They try to convince them that they are really women and not ladyboys. They get the hots more for straight guys and make aggressive plays for them.

You totally misunderstood my post. Perhaps read it again. Assuming you were referring to MY post.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Jingthing

[lemoncake]

yes Lemoncake she was probably more of a man than you 555

You would like that, as you had made it clear already

[lemoncake]

yes Lemoncake she was probably more of a man than you 555

You would like that, as you had made it clear already

[DavidBonnie]

I'm lubbed up with Lemoncake . . . what a bout a pic of you in your undies??? 555

[lemoncake]

What girl was killed? I thought OP was about man being killed

Oy vey.

Call her whatever y'all like.

She's beyond caring.

there is no her and never was, but only a he

[lemoncake]

I'm lubbed up with Lemoncake . . . what a bout a pic of you in your undies??? 555

I can do better than that, i can send you my undies on daily basis for the right price

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm lubbed up with Lemoncake . . . what a bout a pic of you in your undies??? 555

I can do better than that, i can send you my undies on daily basis for the right price

Badda bing, badda boom !!!! :-)

[Gsxrnz]

Agree. Also, in the interests of context, the idea of a man identifying as gay as a recent thing in Thai culture (dating back to the early 60s - a western import really).

...

Careful, according to one our outspoken posters on the gay forum, gay as an identity group dates back to ANCIENT times in Thailand ...

But I agree with you. It's a recent WESTERN import.

Actually, back in the 60's the term "gay" meaning homosexual, wasn't being used very extensively, even though it did have roots back in earlier English history. It gained popular usage in it's current form in the early 1970's.

It's amazing what's in a word and how sensitive (PC?) we have become in the west over time. The theme music to The Flintstones cartoon, released over 50 years ago, had the closing words in the theme tune - "...you'll have a gay old time". Implying that it will be fun to watch the cartoon, and you'll be happy/gay.

In 2010, ABC were forced to remove these words from the lyrics. One of the complainants CNN anchor Anderson Cooper said on the air: “This sort of flip treatment of the homosexual lifestyle, and that it could possibly apply to a family in the stone age, is offensive and outrageous. What are they trying to say about the homosexual community? That it is for neanderthals? For cavemen? How can any reasonable person not be mortified when they hear this song?” Now in my opinion, a comment like that about a 50 year old cartoon is nothing short of imbecilic.

I wasn't mortified, I was a kid back then watching a great cartoon and having a gay old time!! I won't mention Noddy and Big Ears.

[ginjag]

Ladyboys (as used by Ladyboys themselves) is a catch-all term for transgender people and what westerners would call camp, gay men even if they have short hair and have not taken hormones.

Transvestites are men who dress up as women . . . . completely different

Ladyboys themselves prefer the pronouns 'she and her' WHY NOT SIMPLY RESPECT THAT.

The reason that a lot of them are so tough is the prejudice they face from people like some of you. Stop referring to ladyboys as gay men as they are very different in mant aspects.

Waverider or whatever your name is . . . . .I suggest you take care with your downward thrusts of your arm designed to hurt someone . . . . you may wind up with worse than a grope. I suggest you stop walking down soi 6 if you don't like ladyboys touching you . . . . I have NEVER been bothered on any other soi even in Pattaya . . . .I bet you secretly love it!

Once again . . . . lets remember we are talking about Pattaya and prostitutes . . . do not generalise this to the girl who was killed.

What girl was killed? I thought OP was about man being killed

Good Idea to focus on the killer, not if the victim was a he or a she, for gods sake get your heads straight. Maybe if the victim was your offspring would you be talking like this. the person also has loved ones and family, show a little gentleness-whatever her indecent act was or her lifestyle. She died -and if anyone thinks she/he deserved to die I feel sorry for their attitude.

KIller was a he, no one is disputing that

You have got him and her on the brain...... we know it was a bloke. Try to put your thoughts off the deceased and post your thought on the scum that ended someones life. The story is about a killer,---forget as I say if the victim was he-she...or what they do in bed with who....trashing the lifestyle-your thoughts. At the end of the day the victim was a person. who had a mother / family. The killer ought to have had a notice on his body saying--"touch my dick and I'll kill you"

[Jingthing]

What girl was killed? I thought OP was about man being killed

Oy vey.

Call her whatever y'all like.

She's beyond caring.

there is no her and never was, but only a he

Maybe attend her funeral to tell the mourners about your obsession with the deceased's gender.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Jingthing

[Gsxrnz]

Agree. Also, in the interests of context, the idea of a man identifying as gay as a recent thing in Thai culture (dating back to the early 60s - a western import really).

...

Careful, according to one our outspoken posters on the gay forum, gay as an identity group dates back to ANCIENT times in Thailand ...

But I agree with you. It's a recent WESTERN import.

Actually, back in the 60's the term "gay" meaning homosexual, wasn't being used very extensively, even though it did have roots back in earlier English history. It gained popular usage in it's current form in the early 1970's.

It's amazing what's in a word and how sensitive (PC?) we have become in the west over time. The theme music to The Flintstones cartoon, released over 50 years ago, had the closing words in the theme tune - "...you'll have a gay old time". Implying that it will be fun to watch the cartoon, and you'll be happy/gay.

In 2010, ABC were forced to remove these words from the lyrics. One of the complainants CNN anchor Anderson Cooper said on the air: “This sort of flip treatment of the homosexual lifestyle, and that it could possibly apply to a family in the stone age, is offensive and outrageous. What are they trying to say about the homosexual community? That it is for neanderthals? For cavemen? How can any reasonable person not be mortified when they hear this song?” Now in my opinion, a comment like that about a 50 year old cartoon is nothing short of imbecilic.

I wasn't mortified, I was a kid back then watching a great cartoon and having a gay old time!! I won't mention Noddy and Big Ears.

[lemoncake]

What girl was killed? I thought OP was about man being killed

Oy vey.

Call her whatever y'all like.

She's beyond caring.

there is no her and never was, but only a he

Maybe attend her funeral to tell the mourners about your obsession with the deceased gender.

If i was invited to HIS funeral, i would attend and express my condolences to HIS family

[Emptyset]

Agree. Also, in the interests of context, the idea of a man identifying as gay as a recent thing in Thai culture (dating back to the early 60s - a western import really).

...

Careful, according to one our outspoken posters on the gay forum, gay as an identity group dates back to ANCIENT times in Thailand ...

But I agree with you. It's a recent WESTERN import.

At the risk of going off topic, this is a great read from an academic POV on this matter: http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_lesbian_and_gay_studies/v005/5.3jackson.html - discusses representations of kathoeys and homosexuality in Thai culture via an exploration of the death of Darrell Berrigan (the gay editor of an Eng language newspaper) in the mid '60s.

Anyway, back to the issue at hand, it seems to me people on this thread are continually restating what they think is 'natural' with no consideration of local context or culture. Wonder how far some of these posters would go to insist upon the fact that she was male? Will we find them in the graveyard in the dead of night with a chisel, making an addition to her headstone... I can just see it now, "In Memory of Ms. Belle", then etched next to that by one of our Thaivisa members "MALE". The world is a bit more complicated than 'well, he was born with a penis, so he must be a bloody bloke innit', by all means think that if you like, clearly no amount of reasoned argument is going to change your mind - as evidenced by this thread - but don't be surprised when you meet people that don't consider it so fixed and who wish to respect the wishes of those that feel they were born into the wrong sex.

[Johnniey]

 

 

 

What girl was killed? I thought OP was about man being killed

 

Oy vey.

Call her whatever y'all like.

She's beyond caring. 

 

 

there is no her and never was, but only  a he

 

Maybe attend her funeral to tell the mourners about your obsession with the deceased gender. 

 

If i was invited to HIS funeral, i would attend and express my condolences to HIS family

You are a fruit cake and obviously ladyboy phobic with absolutely no respect for the deceased victim.

[ginjag]

Anyone trying to correct the double triple postings -all are aware but sorry if I missed --WE are trying to get at the problem.

[DocN]

EyesWideOpen said:"

Nazis ???? Wow, nice piece of work to bring them into this... LOL

Seems to be not the only thing, you are not getting, huh?!

Your friend from the US said, I should be more tolerant to other peolple's opinion, myself.

Which I would be, if these opinions would be rooted in empathy and tolerance...which yours are clearly not!

With the same argument, you could ask me to "tolerate" Nazi- opinion, which I also would refuse to do.

I will only "tolerate" your opinions as in "well...I cant stop them from typing this crap here, so..."- but I will not be tolerant about them.
You are telling me a ladyboy is not a man because they believe they are not. I am saying they are a man because that is how they were born, and plus there is a dick between their legs. So since according to us they belong to neither group, what is left? Some strange PC word such as pre-op transgender? Too funny for words.... Again, you don't understand the least bit, do you?! I don't care! If Ms. Bell wanted to be called "Ms", than it is fine with me! And if she refered to herself as a woman, so why shouldn't I? It will not hurt me or my feelings, it will make her feel okay...so what is the damn problem? If there is nothing about the OP that gets you railed up as much as the gender she choose, you should 100% think about your personal values.
And on a closing note, if they would cease being a one group crime wave, myself and many other posters here would have a far more benign attitude towards them.....I do like the way one poster referred to them as an " infestation", as that is something I have thought myself sometimes as I am fighting off being pickpocketed by them . But I will be the first to admit it certainly is a growth business. Not really sure why, whether more and more punters want them, or the pick pocket gangs are just increasing in size.....

In my 6 years living in Bangkok and another 12 years as a tourist, I have not even one time had a bad encounter with any ladyboy and surely never saw them as a one group crimewave. I don't know, where you hang out -though I would really love to...so I can avoid ever meeting you- but maybe you should give those places a second thought!

On my closing note: again...the OP is about a human being (why am I not surprised, you think the "infestation"- thing is cool?!), who was killed over a minor sexual offense, which could have easily been dissolved by getting her off the bike and let her walk home. There was no need for any physical violence, like a bullet to head!

Maybe you should just think about that, instead of your borderline childish "he/she"- issue!

[lemoncake]

You are a fruit cake and obviously ladyboy phobic with absolutely no respect for the deceased victim.

Would addressing him as "sir"be more respectful for you?

Edited July 29, 2013 by lemoncake

[ginjag]

You are a fruit cake and obviously ladyboy phobic with absolutely no respect for the deceased victim.

Would addressing him as "sir"be more respectful for you?

Are you just a wind up person, or are you for real ?????? you after ruffling feathers to get posters banned or something ??? Why not leave it alone you have said all and not willing to let go. you sure have a problem and not just an opinion.

[geriatrickid]

Don't know why this article keeps referring to the khatoey as a 'she'. They are men.

Does it really matter. She is dead because of macho ego BS. if a ladyboy wants to be called she, who gives a flying f@#%

Or maybe just maybe we do not have all the facts.

If the accused knew she was a ladyboy and sat in the middle such that the ladyboy was riding on his backside, perhaps there are pyschological aspects to the story that may forever be unknown except to the assailant.

[Bluespunk]

Don't know why this article keeps referring to the khatoey as a 'she'. They are men.

Does it really matter. She is dead because of macho ego BS. if a ladyboy wants to be called she, who gives a flying f@#%

Or maybe just maybe we do not have all the facts.

If the accused knew she was a ladyboy and sat in the middle such that the ladyboy was riding on his backside, perhaps there are pyschological aspects to the story that may forever be unknown except to the assailant.

Maybe, but this a-hole murdered Belle because she touched his dick. Equates with a macho ego in my view, he also then stole her purse and phone. As you say there are aspects of his psychology we may never know about, however his image of himself as a man led him to completely over react to being touched. Belle was wrong to touch him but she did not deserve to die and then be robbed. He has shown no remorse and no doubt feels he was justified in doing what he did. Macho ego BS in my view.

[lemoncake]

You have got him and her on the brain...... we know it was a bloke. Try to put your thoughts off the deceased and post your thought on the scum that ended someones life. The story is about a killer,---forget as I say if the victim was he-she...or what they do in bed with who....trashing the lifestyle-your thoughts. At the end of the day the victim was a person. who had a mother / family. The killer ought to have had a notice on his body saying--"touch my dick and I'll kill you"

Thai justice system will deal with that and award appropriate punishment:wai: