Thailand and the Vietnam War

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Nignoy

Oh, I don't forget you guys who built, and occupied, the Loeng Nak Thai airfield. T-62 in the Air America site listing for Thailand.

Two other contingency airfields also constructed back in The Day:

-- Nam Phong, T-712, used twice by a U.S. Marine air wing, and

-- Chieng Khrua (Ban Nong Hoi), T-60, 4,550 ft long, asphalt. This is just north of Sakhon Nakhon, off the road to NKP, ni Amphur Kusuman. Never used by the USAF but I was in there once mid-1970s for a Mittraphap Education Foundation function.

Remember, too, that after the Udorn-NKP road was paved in 1968 there were a couple spots on the road that had large white airplanes painted on it, these at fairly long straight stretches with no close obstructions on the sides, indicating possible landing places in a REAL emergency.

Mac

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Here's an interesting www site, do a Google for: vietnam 50th timeline

Got lots of info.

Mac

[JDGRUEN]

When I was up in Phibun Mangsahan near Ubon visiting the Girlfriends Aunts and Uncles they told me there had been some sort of US military area in the town during the Vietnam War. I couldn't get anything more specific out of them and searching online have found nothing. Anybody know if there's any truth to this ?

There was a significant sized U.S. Air Force base coexisting with the RTAF in Ubon. Plus there was U.S. Army Engineer and Logistics outfits...

[JDGRUEN]

I may have posted this before ... but here is a bit about the unit I served with... we had many camps around Thailand...

46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) 1966--1971

Oct. 1966- Mar. 1967 Company D (Augmented) 1st. Special Forces Group (Airborne)
(Predecessor to 46th. SFCA)

- Headquarters - Camp Pawai, Lopburi, Thailand

- "B" Team Level Training Camps: B410 (4610) Camp Nam Phung Dam (originally
designated Camp 'Honky' or 'Hunky') in Phu Phan area near Sakon Nakhon,

-B-420 (4620) Pak Chang/Nong Takoo -Remote A-Det

-B-430 (4630) Camp Ban Kachong (Trang).

(Company D, 1st. Special Forces redesignated 46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) Apr. 1967)

Apr. 1967 - Mar. 1970 46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) 1st. Special Forces
Headquarters: The Royal Thai Army Special Warfare Center, Fort Narai, Lopburi, Thailand. APO 96261

Detachments and TDY Locations for elements of the 46th. SFCA, Thailand (APOs TBD)

- Camp Nam Phung Dam B-4610, A-4611, A-4612, A-4613 (Phun Phan area somewhat near Sakon Nakhon, Thailand)

- Camp Nong Takoo B-4620, A-4621, A-4622, A-4623 (Near Pak Chang, Thailand)

- Camp Ban Kachong B-4630, A-4631, A4633 (Trang, Thailand)

- Det. C-4602, B-4640, B-4650 Kanchanaburi, Thailand

- Det. C-4601 Sattahip, Thailand

- Camp Chaw Haw B-4640, A-4614, A4624, A-4634 (exact location TBD)

- Extended TDY operation - temporary camp - B-4650, A-46x3, A4632 Nan, Thailand

- Other 46th. SFCA TDY Personnel Assignments, Chiang Klang, Khao Yoi, Hua Hin, Khon Kaen, Lomsak, Klong Nga, Thailand

- Other Special Forces: In Thailand - SF Training Team Camp Nam Phong District, N.N.E. of Khon Kaen, Thailand about 25K

- U.S. Marine Air Base (10, 000 ft. Runway) - Marine Aircraft Group 15, 1st. Marine Aircraft Wing.
Location: Royal Thai Airbase, Nam Phong District, N.N.E. of Khon Kaen, Thailand about 25K

April 1970. The 46th. SFCA was inactivated - then reactivated as United States Army Special Forces, Thailand.

- 46th SFCA Aviation Section - Helicopter Detachment - 1971 - Camp Phung Dam (Phun Phan area somewhat near Sakon Nakhon, Thailand)

[JDGRUEN]

U.S. Air Force Bases ... co-located at RTAFBs were located at the following places (from my best recollection).

Utapau (near Sattahip) Mainly B-52s and Recon Aircraft. Sattahip was a U.S. and Thai Navy Port for off loading supplies.

Don Muang U.S. / Thai AFB

Ubon (Ubon Rachathani) U.S. / Thai AFB

Korat (Nakon Ratchasima) U.S. / Thai AFB

Takhli U.S. / Thai AFB

Udorn (Udon Thani) U.S. / Thai AFB and U.S. CIA HQ in Thailand

Nakhon Phanom - NKP - U.S. / Thai AFB (Military HQ of the 'Secret' War in Laos)

I hope I didn't leave out any...

Plus there were numerous 'Signal Sites' on mountaintops stretching from near Sattahip to near Nakhon Phanon.

Edited August 17, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[JDGRUEN]

Also - a link I came across today ...

https://archive.org/details/gov.archives.arc.2569828

[rreoop44]

Is dangerous to go there now? (in organized trip)

[hmficc]

My home unit was Army in Korat. I was supply liaison to the Queens Cobras of the RTAVR. They were the firstThai unit to deploy to VN. I met them a a camp near the bridge on the river Kwai. They were given all equipment, inc m16s, fron the US, Except uniforms and boots. They got Japanese sneakers and were not too happy about it. The Thais issued me a m2a carbine.

I rubbed shoulders with the 46th SF group. They were all work and play and no BS. I had great respect for them.

I remember coming into raja a small town on the way to camp. Our 5 ton cargo truck filled the street. We stopped for rice and beer and about 30 people surrounded our table to look and smile. They had never seen a farang before. We had dinner some nights as the sun went down by the bridge. A small place with pigs running under the tables and wonderful food, ice, Makong and mineral water. The owner was chinese and had a lovely daughter who spoke english ,as did he, but was too shy to talk to me. I have one hundred wonderful memories.

We're later staged to chomburi prior to the Cobra's leaving by boat for VN.

I fell in love with thailand. When I mustered out I studied Thai at Yale, Hawaii and Wisconsin Universities.

I had planned to return soonest. Forty years later I started a small import company as an excuse to return and when my wife retired we moved to Chiang Mai for 5 years. We now vist when we can.

My brother was in VN at the same time which made me exempt from a combat zone. My two brothers-in-law each did did 2 tours and saw the very worst of it.

I joined Veterns for Peace when I got out after 23 months. My choise had been 2 years in the Army or 5years in Federal prison.

I have the greatest respect for the military and feel the are unloved by the American people who allow them to be so misused by the politician.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Here's a mention of a somewhat little known semi unofficial Thai involvement in the war in Laos back in The Day.

The CIA finally recognizes the Thai involvement in the Lao program....

Mac

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol-58-no-3/index.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol-58-no-3/cold-war-southeast-asia.html

Intelligence in Public Literature

Cold War Southeast Asia

Malcolm H. Murfett (ed.). (Singapore: Marshall Cavendish Editions, 2012) 376 pp., bibliography, notes, index.

Reviewed by Timothy Castle, Ph.D. ©

Singapore continues to be a thriving center for academics and other professionals who seek a greater understanding of the region’s important past, present, and future place in international affairs. Those in the hunt for the lessons of history will find this collection of 12 wide-ranging Cold War-related essays most rewarding. Editor Malcom Murfett is associate professor in the Department of History of the National University of Singapore. He declares, “Apart from the mountains of literature on the Vietnam War and innumerable references to the ‘domino theory’ that Eisenhower and others were so concerned about in the 1950s, the role of the Cold War in Southeast Asia has not been subject to much scrutiny.”

Murfett’s selection of essayists includes scholars from universities and research centers in Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines, Australia, Malaysia, and the United States. In developing their submissions, the authors consulted archival resources from across the globe, including national repositories in Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, Singapore, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Specialty collections, including materials held by the US military, were also consulted.

Far from offering dry recitations of well-established facts, the authors bring forth new information and thoughtfully crafted insights on the Cold War’s impact on the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the establishment of Singapore. The Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) is examined, as is neutralism in Cambodia and Laos. Essays also treat British defense obligations in Singapore and Malaysia, as well as Southeast Asia and the US Army “before the quagmire.”

Of particular note to this reviewer, the volume includes an in-depth recounting of the origins of Thai-US involvement in the Laotian “secret war.” Written by Sutayut Osornprasop, who holds a PhD from Cambridge University, the essay reveals in detail the full cooperation between the Thai government and the United States in carrying out what became a key component of the CIA’s project there. Osornprasop cast a wide net to gather his material, which includes interviews with key Thai military and CIA participants. Specifically, he details the work of Headquarters 333, the Thai police and military conduit for manpower into Laos. In his earlier dissertation work, Osornprasop established that, while most experts of the period recognize the 1968 deployment of regular Thai military forces to South Vietnam reached 12,000 men, most do not know that by 1972, twice as many Thais were on the ground in Laos. Indeed, some of Osornprasop’s most important data comes from Thai veterans who established an advocacy group called the “Unknown Warriors Association (UWA) – 333.”

Dedicated to informing the Thai public and others about their efforts, the UWA has an office, holds education events in schools and other forums, and regularly publishes material in English and Thai related to their efforts during the “secret war.” Thai participation in the Laos war ranged from the deployment of regular Royal Thai Army artillery batteries and Police Aerial Reinforcement Units (PARU) during the Eisenhower years to the employment of thousands of irregulars drawn from the Thai military through the Johnson and Nixon administrations. Dr. Osornprasop observes that these actions in Laos would, in the early 1970s, “culminate…in the largest expeditionary mission in Thailand’s contemporary history.” Not surprisingly, stories detailing the efforts of CIA Laos veterans like Bill Lair and Pat Landry—complete with wartime photos—routinely appear in UWA publications. As a demonstration of the open nature of their efforts, UWA members have also traveled to communist Laos to meet and talk about the war with their former enemies.

Cold War Southeast Asia is easily and inexpensively available electronically via Kindle and is highly recommended for intelligence professionals, regional experts, and others looking for new thoughts on the Cold War.

[Top of page]

All statements of fact, opinion, or analysis expressed in this journal are those of the authors. Nothing in any of the articles should be construed as asserting or implying US government endorsement of their factual statements and interpretations. Articles by non-US government employees are copyrighted.

Posted: Oct 06, 2014 11:02 AM

Last Updated: Oct 06, 2014 11:02 AM

[Ws93]

I wonder what my great grandfathers were doing in the Vietnam war.

One in the British army and the other in the Thai army.

I have no knowledge of the war so stupid question, were the Thai allies of the Americans? Would be weird if my ancestors were trying to kill each other before.

[patsfangr]

My tour in VN was in 1970-71 as an officer on Mobile Advisory Teams (MAT) in MACV. My only connection to Thailand was through the air support we had to occasionally call on. But this thread contains many notes and videos that bring back memories - some I remember with a smile, others with unpleasant feelings.

Whatever our different memories, they are images and sounds that will never fade from our minds for as long as we live. Overall, I think those memories have had a significant affect on our lives. And, overall, I think that affect has been positive for us. It has made us stronger in many ways. It has, most certainly, made us more appreciative of the advantages of everyday life in a time and place of peace.

I will always appreciate the service of those who served before me, with me, and after me, in the US military. That includes those who served my country in every war from the Revolutionary War to the war in Afghanistan. Thank you. Thanks to every one of you.

[Ace of Pop]

Impossible i Know, but those who denigrated America and the Free Worlds Fighters should be Isolated from protection next time.My Utmost Respect to Nam Vets, and All Fighting MEN. We owe Them.

[phrodan]

[phrodan]

[phrodan]

http://youtu.be/Pcx6yaECtK8

[phrodan]

http://youtu.be/UBi4DvRfqmI

[phrodan]

[phrodan]

[phrodan]

http://youtu.be/I67Yidy9W2g

[phrodan]

http://youtu.be/Zlu6VMsz_mc

[phrodan]

[Cletus]

I've always wished to meet Vietnam War veterans to listen to their stories...

Enjoying reading here very much.

Thanks guys for posting.

[CWOMac]

Pete

Don't really remember anything in Phibun but there was lots of activity at the Ubon RTAFB, an Ozzie F-86 unit, and several USAF units, including F-4s, AC-130s, and others.

Right across the Mekong from Kong Chiam aka Ban Dan, there was a CIA funded hospital primarily for the Lao military use, the SGU types. It was handy in the old days as the Kong Chiam people could just go over to the Lao side for medical care rather than a long hard ride in to Ubon on muddy dirt roads.

Then to your south, Buntharik district, there was a CIA funded training camp for military from Laos, but also from Cambodia. Forget the name right now, would have to look it up.

Mac

But don't forget us mac British ,Australian and NZ troops stationed between Ubon and Muk from late 63 to 68, there was a USAF radar unit on Phu mhu near Muk

Army Units were also in Ubon Ratchathani and Warren.

I was in Ubon Ratchathani 1968 - 1971.

I was assigned to

Detachment B, 83rd Radio Research (RR) Special Operations Unit (SOU) and Detachment C/J, 7th Radio Research (RR) Field Station (FS).

In 1968, we lived in the Sang Seri bungalows. In 1970 we moved into the Siam Hotel.

(Note; Radio Research (RR) units were cover units created for Army Security Agency (ASA) units during the Vietnam War.)

Across the Mun River, was an Army SIgnal Corps site in Warren.

CWOMac

[maps]

Anyone remember "Ramasun" on the highway about 16km south of Udon Thani, officially the 7th RRFS (Radio Research Field Station)

This complex basically was a self contained town.

The huge HF/DF radio detection antenna, was over 400m diameter and range of 7,000kms.

Nine were built world wide, this being the biggest in Asia.

The aerial photo shows the complex looking north towards Udon and the highway from Khon Kaen at left

and the main antenna top center.

Other photo was taken 1980 when I first visited what was left of the complex.

Also see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FLR-9

and Bill Bogart's site (unfortunately no longer, but achived)

http://web.archive.org/web/20010215031206/http://www.topsecretsi.com/users/bogart/7THRRFSPICTURES.html

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Ah, yes, the "Elephant Training Cage".... Set up by the U.S. Army but quite a few USAF guys also served there over the years.

I heard one story about an Army general who came over to Thailand to inspect the facility. Flew into Udorn, drove down the 12 km to Ramasun, and around the facility. This was set up by the ASA, the Army Security Agency, so the general asked who in the hell chose the site for it, right between the Friendship Highway and the railroad tracks, viewable to all who pass by.

Mac

[IMA_FARANG]

Ah, yes, the "Elephant Training Cage".... Set up by the U.S. Army but quite a few USAF guys also served there over the years.

I heard one story about an Army general who came over to Thailand to inspect the facility. Flew into Udorn, drove down the 12 km to Ramasun, and around the facility. This was set up by the ASA, the Army Security Agency, so the general asked who in the hell chose the site for it, right between the Friendship Highway and the railroad tracks, viewable to all who pass by.

Mac

---------------

Were you at Ft. Monmouth (upstairs in the secure area)?

I was at Monmouth in 1966, downstairs, doing basic electronics and "High Frequency Radio Repair".

Then "Tech Control", and was sent to Vietnam.

I remember the Radio Research building in Than San Nut .... but they never let me in there although I passed it every day.

For years they still maintained their role was "Ionospheric Radio Propagation Research", although we all knew better.

By pure coincidence, after I got out of the Army, I was sent as a civilian to Asmara, Ethiopia as a satellite technician.

ASA was long gone then and site closed, but I actually lived for 18 months in Kagnew compound in Asmara as a civilian.

A lot of the old ASA people were out of the military, and still around Asmara then as civilians.

[klikster]

"The DROP" is a quarterly publication of the Special Forces Association for their members. I thought folks reading this thread might be interested in the latest online pub. It has a number of articles related to the Vietnam War era.

NOTE: The site is SLOW to open, so be patient. http://www.viewmycatalog.com/SFA/TheDrop/drop-4q2014/index.html

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Good book available at Amazon by Craig Duerhing, THE LAIR OF THE RAVEN

I got it as a Kindle edition.

Mac

[LesT21]

Good book available at Amazon by Craig Duerhing, THE LAIR OF THE RAVEN

I got it as a Kindle edition.

Mac

Just got it last week to read on the flight over.

Les T.

เลส ท.

[Tassie Norm]

Interesting that the thread referring to US presence in Thailand during the Vietnam War has led me to this site. I returned to Vietnam last ANZAC Day (April 2014) with my old, fellow serving, army mate. My first trip back in 43 odd years. My mate had been back a couple of times and recommended it. About 20 seconds of apprehension as our Thai Air plane came into land at Tan Son Nhut. After all, I had arrived at the same airport under different circumstances in Dec '69.

A night in the old Saigon and then on to Vung Tau where we had served with the 1st Australian Field Hospital so many years ago. Overall we were both very impressed with the 'old place'. Manicured gardens and medium strips, clean, the peninsular surrounded by the South China Sea. Locals friendly, prices of booze, food, accommodation reasonable (indeed, a bit cheaper than where I live in Isan). Girls, so I was told (!) a bit dearer.

The early morning ANZAC Day service was held at Long Tan where, I am told, only one of two memorials in the entire country was allowed. (The other Dien Bien Phu). The rubber plantation which was the site of a battle well known amongst Aussies and Kiwis was now simply a huge area of truncated stumps. The result was quite moving as only the modest sized white cenotaph, surrounded by a low fence, became the focal point of our vision. The service, I thought, was surprisingly well attended with an estimated thousand attendees. All age groups. The only indication from a spectators viewpoint that it was military related was a couple of uniformed defence attache officers from the Oz Embassy. Wearing of medals and other insignia was, we were advised, a no-no.

Without waffling on too much it was a great and moving experience for this old bastard. Anyone out there thinking of a return or pilgrimage - do it!

Overall my mate and I had had a fabulous moving and enjoyable 6 days. Oh, very little structurally to indentify from the old days. I must say I was a touch stunned on our visit to the back beach - Long Hai mountains in the distance - to find that the Surf Club themed bar - an Aussie icon - was run by Russians. Is nothing sacred!

I'm going to attempt to attach a few images from the past that I recently scanned. A bit faded by time. The first, our translator in er Ao Dai - alas forgotten her name at the moment. The second, from memory a local 'working' girl. The third. Dust-off chopper unloading wounded at Vampire (call-sign) pad. The fourth, humour.

I do hope some of you folk out there enjoy my nostalgic ramblings. May all who failed to return from the 'funny-country' RIP

Nope, don't know how to import pictures. Shit