"No Russian Mafia in Pattaya" – Chief of Banglamung District

[jmccarty]

Take a look at item 14 in the link below that refers to Russian organised crime in Thailand.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/238045

Er, that's the same intelligence apparatus that reported weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!

Very easy for US intel people to point at Pattaya and equate Russians living and holidaying here with anything they want to.

Somebody mentioned the Brits and what some of them are up to. No doubt, same goes for Americans, Aussies, Germans, French, Chinese, etc.

I really doubt that the Russians as foreigners have a monopoly on crime in Thailand.

[Jingthing]

Chief of Banglamung District ...

Methinks he doth protest too much ...

[AloisAmrein]

And what about the longtime running US Mafia in Thailand?

[Gsxrnz]

Did you know that there is no Thai law restricting the importation of Thai currency into Thailand by any person?. You could bring a 40' container full of 1,000 baht notes and there is no law being broken.

This is irrelevant, because it's certainly illegal to take Baht notes out of Thailand in any quantity, and they are only printed in Thailand. So how would they get anywhere else to be able to be shipped back?

They don't want to ship it back and I wasn't really suggesting they bring it in in a 40 foot container.

Do some research on organised crime and how the money is made and the logic behind how it's invested.

A legitimate business in any country is happy to make 10-20% profit on their turnover and may have millions invested getting a return of 10% of capital. Organised crime has a lot less overhead and make much more profit on a lot less invested. Money laundering is initially more about losing money, not making money.

eg. Talking USD to make it easy. Organised crime in Russia earns 8 million "profit" from sales/activities of 10 million (after paying wages, and other overheads such as bullets etc ). A legitimate company would only dream of this margin.

Organised crime then send the 8 million to Thailand - maybe they have to buy baht and maybe they have to transfer through multiple hands with each party taking a slice to semi legitimise the funds. The funds arrive in Thailand and maybe it's only 6 million by then after paying commissions and bribes. Then they wash it through some legitimate companies, set up new companies, buy existing companies, buy condos, build condos, set up companies in partnership with Thais, set up small medium businesses, or fund others to do the same, buy shares on the SET through nominees.....whatever. The money is generally untraceable and is relatively clean.

And the Thai government don't care a diddly squat anyway. The DSI couldn't find their own arse without a flashlight and a set of instructions.

Some of the investments won't make financial sense, some will be risky, some will make money, some will be used to fund on the ground operations.....doesn't really matter. The 8 million original "profit" became 6 million, and may become 3 million or 20 million in one or 5 years.

They didn't really "pay" for the money originally, it was obtained through criminal activities. Yes they had expenses, but hey, they're criminals. If they could earn the same profits legitimately, they probably would. But they can't.

So now they have a base which grows, and feeds on itself as a money haven. They own a company in Thailand that reportedly lost 50 million dollars...hey, a potential tax dodge through another company owned in the Bahamas or the US. Organised crime is a business - they can fund illegal money into legal entities and make surprising profits.

Organised crime is all about ACCOUNTING and has been since the days of Al Capone.

[mok199]

and yet another denial backed by a smile...pathetic...they also have a huge presence in vietnam now,places like mui ne and vungtao,most of the signs and menues are using russian,...russia is the most corrupt country in the world,from putin al the way down...pattaya now sees the russian military,and the law enforcment personel here on ''holidays'',they use russian hotels and bring there own woman or use the escorts provided in one of the russian owned hotels .....the money spent here stays in russian hands, im sure thai buisnesses see very little of the money they spend....

Edited August 2, 2013 by mok199

[lemoncake]

Reading some of the posts here is beyond ridiculous.

So many experts on Russian Mafia

So many know exactly how Russian Mafia operates, i wonder if all the experts learned it from the movies

I have said it before and will say it again

Russian Mafia does not exist in Thailand, and the little wanna be's are not mafia.

Russian Mafia is not interested in making $1 here and there, Thailand does not have the market for them to make money

Russian Girls are not in demand, and even the ones who do get customers the income is tiny compared to what they make in other countries.

There is no market for drugs as that is already controlled by the locals.

There are Russians who have come here and opened up businesses, only they opening businesses serving Russians, while too many others are opening bars.

Russian Mafia DOES NOT launder money in Thailand, because if the experts had any idea, it is every very hard to take money out of Russia,

Real Estate market is not exactly the safest investment here, it does not make money

Pattaya Officials are correct there is not Russian Mafia, just Russian businesses

Ok, here's some interesting reading. It's a US Embassy report on relationships between Thailand and Russia, including an analysis of Russian mafia growth in Thailand.

The report is 4 years old, but well worth a read. Perhaps you can find more reasons to debunk the generally held belief that the Russian mafia is in fact operating in Thailand after you've read some facts. One assumes that the US Embassy would not be telling porkies or basing their opinions on rumour and speculation.

You may come to realise that you're not thinking outside the square and associate mafia with small time crime or owning a gogo on Walking Street.

G2G involvement also breeds a base for increased corruption which will include the Russian mafia. Nor I'm sure have you considered the increasing economic toes that are developing. When two corrupt countries develop economic associations, corruption and organised crime go hand in hand.

And don't forget, the face of Russian organised crime is actually tacitly respectable - you can only put the cash in so many warehouses. Putting it in banks of even neutral countries is risky. Eventually you have to make it work for you.

Did you know that there is no Thai law restricting the importation of Thai currency into Thailand by any person?. You could bring a 40' container full of 1,000 baht notes and there is no law being broken.

And the Russian crime bosses are involved in many multi national organisations based all over the world - as are the US mafia. The new face of organised crime.

Take the time to read the report here --------> http://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/238045

I am not quite sure why you think US embassy is a reliable source, please expand why you think it is.

Also can you briefly identify who US mafia is

Edited August 2, 2013 by lemoncake

[simple1]

Er, that's the same intelligence apparatus that reported weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!

Very easy for US intel people to point at Pattaya and equate Russians living and holidaying here with anything they want to.

Somebody mentioned the Brits and what some of them are up to. No doubt, same goes for Americans, Aussies, Germans, French, Chinese, etc.

I really doubt that the Russians as foreigners have a monopoly on crime in Thailand.

I posted the link as their so much conjecture within this topic without any supporting info. The content in the link would be from a cable released by Wikileaks.

The cable is a collation of info from a number of U.S. law enforcement agencies involved in investigating or monitoring cases involving Russian organised crime in Thailand in cooperation with Thai partners, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), and the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). All the mentioned US agencies do have personnel here in Thailand.

[rbrooks]

There will never be a Russian mafia threat in Thailand. The Thai mafia (police) will ensure it.

[Gsxrnz]

Reading some of the posts here is beyond ridiculous.

So many experts on Russian Mafia

So many know exactly how Russian Mafia operates, i wonder if all the experts learned it from the movies

I have said it before and will say it again

Russian Mafia does not exist in Thailand, and the little wanna be's are not mafia.

Russian Mafia is not interested in making $1 here and there, Thailand does not have the market for them to make money

Russian Girls are not in demand, and even the ones who do get customers the income is tiny compared to what they make in other countries.

There is no market for drugs as that is already controlled by the locals.

There are Russians who have come here and opened up businesses, only they opening businesses serving Russians, while too many others are opening bars.

Russian Mafia DOES NOT launder money in Thailand, because if the experts had any idea, it is every very hard to take money out of Russia,

Real Estate market is not exactly the safest investment here, it does not make money

Pattaya Officials are correct there is not Russian Mafia, just Russian businesses

Ok, here's some interesting reading. It's a US Embassy report on relationships between Thailand and Russia, including an analysis of Russian mafia growth in Thailand.

The report is 4 years old, but well worth a read. Perhaps you can find more reasons to debunk the generally held belief that the Russian mafia is in fact operating in Thailand after you've read some facts. One assumes that the US Embassy would not be telling porkies or basing their opinions on rumour and speculation.

You may come to realise that you're not thinking outside the square and associate mafia with small time crime or owning a gogo on Walking Street.

G2G involvement also breeds a base for increased corruption which will include the Russian mafia. Nor I'm sure have you considered the increasing economic toes that are developing. When two corrupt countries develop economic associations, corruption and organised crime go hand in hand.

And don't forget, the face of Russian organised crime is actually tacitly respectable - you can only put the cash in so many warehouses. Putting it in banks of even neutral countries is risky. Eventually you have to make it work for you.

Did you know that there is no Thai law restricting the importation of Thai currency into Thailand by any person?. You could bring a 40' container full of 1,000 baht notes and there is no law being broken.

And the Russian crime bosses are involved in many multi national organisations based all over the world - as are the US mafia. The new face of organised crime.

Take the time to read the report here --------> http://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/238045

I am not quite sure why you think US embassy is a reliable source, please expand why you think it is.

Also can you briefly identify who US mafia is

Your questions are a little obtuse and immature so I'll do you a favour and assume they're rhetorical.

[Cuban]

I have met both Russian & Hungarian "Mafia" in Pattaya, in the Thai sense of the word which is both organised and structured. In fact the Hungarian paid for a very nice meal that night.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Cuban

[Gsxrnz]

I have met both Russian & Hungarian "Mafia" in Pattaya, in the Thai sense of the word which is both organised and structured. In fact the Hungarian paid for a very nice meal that night.

Vodka by the truckload included I hope!

[Kularion]

From http://www.pattayaone.net/pattaya-news/97681/no-russian-mafia-pattaya-chief-banglamung-district/

"Sounds like another clueless government worker that has reached the level of their incompetence. What next, a report that there aren't any labyboys or prostitutes in Pattaya?

Have to agree with weasel about "any Russians". Pattaya has been in a downward spiral for the last 5 or 6 years since the Russians have been coming. Making me seriously think about moving out of Thailand."

And this is the best example of how some people hate Russian... because before Russian comes to Pattaya this was heaven on earth (no crimes, scam, prostitution etc). I'm shocked how some people are moved when they see Russian letters on some businesses but is ok if they see Real Estate for example... so that means American, British, Australian are ok but Russian are not ? What the hell is going on with you guys ??? and you are saying that Thais are nationals and xenophobic ??? btw Im not Russian but I just cant understand this hate which I can see here... I know many Russian and they are lovely, friendly, nice and high educated people with their hearts on hand for you... as long as you don't betray them... Shame on you people for such hate for other nation...

[lemoncake]

Reading some of the posts here is beyond ridiculous.

So many experts on Russian Mafia

So many know exactly how Russian Mafia operates, i wonder if all the experts learned it from the movies

I have said it before and will say it again

Russian Mafia does not exist in Thailand, and the little wanna be's are not mafia.

Russian Mafia is not interested in making $1 here and there, Thailand does not have the market for them to make money

Russian Girls are not in demand, and even the ones who do get customers the income is tiny compared to what they make in other countries.

There is no market for drugs as that is already controlled by the locals.

There are Russians who have come here and opened up businesses, only they opening businesses serving Russians, while too many others are opening bars.

Russian Mafia DOES NOT launder money in Thailand, because if the experts had any idea, it is every very hard to take money out of Russia,

Real Estate market is not exactly the safest investment here, it does not make money

Pattaya Officials are correct there is not Russian Mafia, just Russian businesses

Ok, here's some interesting reading. It's a US Embassy report on relationships between Thailand and Russia, including an analysis of Russian mafia growth in Thailand.

The report is 4 years old, but well worth a read. Perhaps you can find more reasons to debunk the generally held belief that the Russian mafia is in fact operating in Thailand after you've read some facts. One assumes that the US Embassy would not be telling porkies or basing their opinions on rumour and speculation.

You may come to realise that you're not thinking outside the square and associate mafia with small time crime or owning a gogo on Walking Street.

G2G involvement also breeds a base for increased corruption which will include the Russian mafia. Nor I'm sure have you considered the increasing economic toes that are developing. When two corrupt countries develop economic associations, corruption and organised crime go hand in hand.

And don't forget, the face of Russian organised crime is actually tacitly respectable - you can only put the cash in so many warehouses. Putting it in banks of even neutral countries is risky. Eventually you have to make it work for you.

Did you know that there is no Thai law restricting the importation of Thai currency into Thailand by any person?. You could bring a 40' container full of 1,000 baht notes and there is no law being broken.

And the Russian crime bosses are involved in many multi national organisations based all over the world - as are the US mafia. The new face of organised crime.

Take the time to read the report here --------> http://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/238045

I am not quite sure why you think US embassy is a reliable source, please expand why you think it is.

Also can you briefly identify who US mafia is

Your questions are a little obtuse and immature so I'll do you a favour and assume they're rhetorical.

No,it was not rhetorical questions, so please be kind enough to expand .

You consider 2 Americans running a bar to be mafia?

Before you get all excited, I speak fluent Russian and know a few very rich Russians , so I would really like to know the answers to my questions

Edited August 2, 2013 by lemoncake

[bristolgeoff]

no Russian mafia,but I know the pixies are the bad ones round pattaya.they ruthless more than the russians

[bangkokrick]

How many of you posters actually live in Pattaya? I have been here for years and go out on a regular basis, but have never seen many Russians. Mostly I see French, Belgium, Scandis and of course Brits. They get everywhere.

It has always been popular to knock Pattaya on this board and if you can't get us on the vice you will get us on the Mafia. I have never been extorted by a Russian but have been extorted many times by Thais. That is and always will be the way in Thailand. Put down your novels and see it for real.

[Gsxrnz]

Ok, here's some interesting reading. It's a US Embassy report on relationships between Thailand and Russia, including an analysis of Russian mafia growth in Thailand.

The report is 4 years old, but well worth a read. Perhaps you can find more reasons to debunk the generally held belief that the Russian mafia is in fact operating in Thailand after you've read some facts. One assumes that the US Embassy would not be telling porkies or basing their opinions on rumour and speculation.

You may come to realise that you're not thinking outside the square and associate mafia with small time crime or owning a gogo on Walking Street.

G2G involvement also breeds a base for increased corruption which will include the Russian mafia. Nor I'm sure have you considered the increasing economic toes that are developing. When two corrupt countries develop economic associations, corruption and organised crime go hand in hand.

And don't forget, the face of Russian organised crime is actually tacitly respectable - you can only put the cash in so many warehouses. Putting it in banks of even neutral countries is risky. Eventually you have to make it work for you.

Did you know that there is no Thai law restricting the importation of Thai currency into Thailand by any person?. You could bring a 40' container full of 1,000 baht notes and there is no law being broken.

And the Russian crime bosses are involved in many multi national organisations based all over the world - as are the US mafia. The new face of organised crime.

Take the time to read the report here --------> http://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/238045

I am not quite sure why you think US embassy is a reliable source, please expand why you think it is.

Also can you briefly identify who US mafia is

Your questions are a little obtuse and immature so I'll do you a favour and assume they're rhetorical.

No,it was not rhetorical questions, so please be kind enough to expand .

You consider 2 Americans running a bar to be mafia?

Before you get all excited, I speak fluent Thai and know a few very rich Russians , so I would really like to know the answers to my questions

To answer your three points above:

1. Your original questions are not germane to my post and obtuse to the extreme. I didn't say the US Embassy was a reliable source. I merely linked it as an interesting source of information. If you want a debate about the authenticity of the information contained therein, take it up with them. I did state that " One assumes that the US Embassy would not be telling porkies or basing their opinions on rumour and speculation." Use of the impersonal pronoun "One" implies that from an objective perspective, it is reasonable to assume that the US Embassy report would be largely factual. "Porkies" by the way is a euphemism for lies. Cockney English, Pork pies = lies, morphed to porkies.

2. As is your usual posting style, you ask questions that have no relevance or were not even mentioned in the post you quote to promote divergent debate - trolling perhaps? Nowhere did I say anything about "2 Americans running a bar to be mafia", nor did anything I say imply or could be construed as having anything even remotely to do with Americans running bars or being mafia.

I did however make a reference to somebody of unspecified nationality owning a gogo on Walking Street - but I specifically said, and I quote myself, "You may come to realise that you're not thinking outside the square and associate mafia with small time crime or owning a gogo on Walking Street." I'm sorry if your comprehension doesn't extend to this level so I will clarify it in simple English for you. In the context of making that statement I was implying that anybody who thinks that somebody who might be involved in criminal activities while also owning a gogo in Walking Street should not be considered mafia just for that fact.

3. I don't understand the relevance. How does your claim to be able to speak fluent Thai and know a few very rich Russians have any bearing on why I should answer your obtuse questions? But regardless, I've answered them.

I trust you're satisfied. I'm unsure English is your first language - one would assume not, given your argumentative, obtuse, and abrupt style of using the written word. Perhaps your lack of comprehension leads you to misunderstand issues and you just come across that way, cest la vie.

I stated my views on Russian mafia - you can choose to agree or disagree, in part or in whole, it's really up to you. But your style of debate is not constructive and as I'm sure many others will agree, just a little too argumentative and destructive to bother with. Cheerio.......

[SNGLIFE]

It's well known the Russians keep the authorities supplied with Western/Russian women. No way the authorities are going to give that up...

[hawksway]

The Chief is probably right.

Sure there will be a few Russian Gangsters around protecting Russian Businesses from local Thai Elements and resentment from the Thai Tourist Industries including Taxi Drivers who for some time have been fleecing Tourists with impunity. But Mafia - I doubt that Thais understand the term.

Without a doubt, the number of Russian Visitors to Thailand has been overwhelming in the last couple of years, largely stemming from Mr. Thaksin's trip to Moscow granting Russians the exclusive rights to enter the Kingdom as often as they like without visas. Russians often are boastful of this privilege.

If the so called Russian Mafia do arrive on these shores it will be very worrying. Initially they would simply buy off the Police. Given any resistance from the Thai Authorities though there might easily be a blood bath. Then Thailand would have to consider asking the Americans for help since it would be no match for these Criminals, many who cut their teeth in the KGB and highly trained Russian forces who fought in Afghanistan and the Caucases. Their unemployment in today's Russia has created demand in the Underworld as high adept assassins.

For now Pattaya Police have plenty on there plate just placating the Taxi Drivers who are demanding pay back time.

[lemoncake]

To answer your three points above:

1. Your original questions are not germane to my post and obtuse to the extreme. I didn't say the US Embassy was a reliable source. I merely linked it as an interesting source of information. If you want a debate about the authenticity of the information contained therein, take it up with them. I did state that " One assumes that the US Embassy would not be telling porkies or basing their opinions on rumour and speculation." Use of the impersonal pronoun "One" implies that from an objective perspective, it is reasonable to assume that the US Embassy report would be largely factual. "Porkies" by the way is a euphemism for lies. Cockney English, Pork pies = lies, morphed to porkies.

2. As is your usual posting style, you ask questions that have no relevance or were not even mentioned in the post you quote to promote divergent debate - trolling perhaps? Nowhere did I say anything about "2 Americans running a bar to be mafia", nor did anything I say imply or could be construed as having anything even remotely to do with Americans running bars or being mafia.

I did however make a reference to somebody of unspecified nationality owning a gogo on Walking Street - but I specifically said, and I quote myself, "You may come to realise that you're not thinking outside the square and associate mafia with small time crime or owning a gogo on Walking Street." I'm sorry if your comprehension doesn't extend to this level so I will clarify it in simple English for you. In the context of making that statement I was implying that anybody who thinks that somebody who might be involved in criminal activities while also owning a gogo in Walking Street should not be considered mafia just for that fact.

3. I don't understand the relevance. How does your claim to be able to speak fluent Thai and know a few very rich Russians have any bearing on why I should answer your obtuse questions? But regardless, I've answered them.

I trust you're satisfied. I'm unsure English is your first language - one would assume not, given your argumentative, obtuse, and abrupt style of using the written word. Perhaps your lack of comprehension leads you to misunderstand issues and you just come across that way, cest la vie.

I stated my views on Russian mafia - you can choose to agree or disagree, in part or in whole, it's really up to you. But your style of debate is not constructive and as I'm sure many others will agree, just a little too argumentative and destructive to bother with. Cheerio.......

What do you mean my posting style asking questions of no relevance?

You have linked your post to US embassy, so it is not relevant to question reliability?

You have stated US Mafia and i asked you to clarify who those are, how is that of no relevance?

You have written a number of lengthy "expert" posts which by no means came across as a view, but more as an expert describing what and who Russian Mafia are, how they operate and what they would or could do.

You have brought up US mafia, but can not expand on who or what they are.

I did not say i spoke fluent Thai, i said fluent Russian, see post 133.

Instead of answering 2 very simple questions you are diverting and manipulating what has been said and asked, which can only mean that you do not have a clue in regards to either mafia's or subject at all.

You have made a number of posts, claiming to know about Russian Mafia, i am happy to accept it as soon as you point out what exactly they do, where they hang around and what they involved in.

You have brought up US Mafia and i really would like to know who and what US Mafia is/are, because i do not believe such a thing existed until you brought up

In your opinion someone operating a bar is part of mafia? someone with criminal past is mafia? someone associating with a few criminals are mafia?

Perhaps it is your definition of mafia, in which case Pattaya is over run by many mafia's as each bar owner must be part of some mafia

Now you telling me to agree or disagree with your view, what view is that? I have not seen 1 single shred of evidence from you that Russian Mafia exists and operates in Thailand, but i have seen your long posts of how they work, so how exactly did you gain knowledge on how they operate? which movie?

Edited August 2, 2013 by lemoncake

[lemoncake]

It's well known the Russians keep the authorities supplied with Western/Russian women. No way the authorities are going to give that up...

Well known?? REALLY? first i hear about it, do share your sources

[ableguy]

Exactly which industries are dominated by russian nationals? Sounds more like the press trying to whip up a storm of xenophobia and sensationalism.

You are not Russian, are you;-)

Erm - no. But living in Pattaya I cannot see any industry that even comes close to being dominated by Russians - maybe you would care to enlighten me.

No Russian hookers on walking street ? are you blind ?

[ableguy]

To answer your three points above:

1. Your original questions are not germane to my post and obtuse to the extreme. I didn't say the US Embassy was a reliable source. I merely linked it as an interesting source of information. If you want a debate about the authenticity of the information contained therein, take it up with them. I did state that " One assumes that the US Embassy would not be telling porkies or basing their opinions on rumour and speculation." Use of the impersonal pronoun "One" implies that from an objective perspective, it is reasonable to assume that the US Embassy report would be largely factual. "Porkies" by the way is a euphemism for lies. Cockney English, Pork pies = lies, morphed to porkies.

2. As is your usual posting style, you ask questions that have no relevance or were not even mentioned in the post you quote to promote divergent debate - trolling perhaps? Nowhere did I say anything about "2 Americans running a bar to be mafia", nor did anything I say imply or could be construed as having anything even remotely to do with Americans running bars or being mafia.

I did however make a reference to somebody of unspecified nationality owning a gogo on Walking Street - but I specifically said, and I quote myself, "You may come to realise that you're not thinking outside the square and associate mafia with small time crime or owning a gogo on Walking Street." I'm sorry if your comprehension doesn't extend to this level so I will clarify it in simple English for you. In the context of making that statement I was implying that anybody who thinks that somebody who might be involved in criminal activities while also owning a gogo in Walking Street should not be considered mafia just for that fact.

3. I don't understand the relevance. How does your claim to be able to speak fluent Thai and know a few very rich Russians have any bearing on why I should answer your obtuse questions? But regardless, I've answered them.

I trust you're satisfied. I'm unsure English is your first language - one would assume not, given your argumentative, obtuse, and abrupt style of using the written word. Perhaps your lack of comprehension leads you to misunderstand issues and you just come across that way, cest la vie.

I stated my views on Russian mafia - you can choose to agree or disagree, in part or in whole, it's really up to you. But your style of debate is not constructive and as I'm sure many others will agree, just a little too argumentative and destructive to bother with. Cheerio.......

What do you mean my posting style asking questions of no relevance?

You have linked your post to US embassy, so it is not relevant to question reliability?

You have stated US Mafia and i asked you to clarify who those are, how is that of no relevance?

You have written a number of lengthy "expert" posts which by no means came across as a view, but more as an expert describing what and who Russian Mafia are, how they operate and what they would or could do.

You have brought up US mafia, but can not expand on who or what they are.

I did not say i spoke fluent Thai, i said fluent Russian, see post 133.

Instead of answering 2 very simple questions you are diverting and manipulating what has been said and asked, which can only mean that you do not have a clue in regards to either mafia's or subject at all.

You have made a number of posts, claiming to know about Russian Mafia, i am happy to accept it as soon as you point out what exactly they do, where they hang around and what they involved in.

You have brought up US Mafia and i really would like to know who and what US Mafia is/are, because i do not believe such a thing existed until you brought up

In your opinion someone operating a bar is part of mafia? someone with criminal past is mafia? someone associating with a few criminals are mafia?

Perhaps it is your definition of mafia, in which case Pattaya is over run by many mafia's as each bar owner must be part of some mafia

Now you telling me to agree or disagree with your view, what view is that? I have not seen 1 single shred of evidence from you that Russian Mafia exists and operates in Thailand, but i have seen your long posts of how they work, so how exactly did you gain knowledge on how they operate? which movie?

What a crock, do Russian hookers get work permits ? is running a brothel in walking street legal ? just getv real man

[lemoncake]

To answer your three points above:

1. Your original questions are not germane to my post and obtuse to the extreme. I didn't say the US Embassy was a reliable source. I merely linked it as an interesting source of information. If you want a debate about the authenticity of the information contained therein, take it up with them. I did state that " One assumes that the US Embassy would not be telling porkies or basing their opinions on rumour and speculation." Use of the impersonal pronoun "One" implies that from an objective perspective, it is reasonable to assume that the US Embassy report would be largely factual. "Porkies" by the way is a euphemism for lies. Cockney English, Pork pies = lies, morphed to porkies.

2. As is your usual posting style, you ask questions that have no relevance or were not even mentioned in the post you quote to promote divergent debate - trolling perhaps? Nowhere did I say anything about "2 Americans running a bar to be mafia", nor did anything I say imply or could be construed as having anything even remotely to do with Americans running bars or being mafia.

I did however make a reference to somebody of unspecified nationality owning a gogo on Walking Street - but I specifically said, and I quote myself, "You may come to realise that you're not thinking outside the square and associate mafia with small time crime or owning a gogo on Walking Street." I'm sorry if your comprehension doesn't extend to this level so I will clarify it in simple English for you. In the context of making that statement I was implying that anybody who thinks that somebody who might be involved in criminal activities while also owning a gogo in Walking Street should not be considered mafia just for that fact.

3. I don't understand the relevance. How does your claim to be able to speak fluent Thai and know a few very rich Russians have any bearing on why I should answer your obtuse questions? But regardless, I've answered them.

I trust you're satisfied. I'm unsure English is your first language - one would assume not, given your argumentative, obtuse, and abrupt style of using the written word. Perhaps your lack of comprehension leads you to misunderstand issues and you just come across that way, cest la vie.

I stated my views on Russian mafia - you can choose to agree or disagree, in part or in whole, it's really up to you. But your style of debate is not constructive and as I'm sure many others will agree, just a little too argumentative and destructive to bother with. Cheerio.......

What do you mean my posting style asking questions of no relevance?

You have linked your post to US embassy, so it is not relevant to question reliability?

You have stated US Mafia and i asked you to clarify who those are, how is that of no relevance?

You have written a number of lengthy "expert" posts which by no means came across as a view, but more as an expert describing what and who Russian Mafia are, how they operate and what they would or could do.

You have brought up US mafia, but can not expand on who or what they are.

I did not say i spoke fluent Thai, i said fluent Russian, see post 133.

Instead of answering 2 very simple questions you are diverting and manipulating what has been said and asked, which can only mean that you do not have a clue in regards to either mafia's or subject at all.

You have made a number of posts, claiming to know about Russian Mafia, i am happy to accept it as soon as you point out what exactly they do, where they hang around and what they involved in.

You have brought up US Mafia and i really would like to know who and what US Mafia is/are, because i do not believe such a thing existed until you brought up

In your opinion someone operating a bar is part of mafia? someone with criminal past is mafia? someone associating with a few criminals are mafia?

Perhaps it is your definition of mafia, in which case Pattaya is over run by many mafia's as each bar owner must be part of some mafia

Now you telling me to agree or disagree with your view, what view is that? I have not seen 1 single shred of evidence from you that Russian Mafia exists and operates in Thailand, but i have seen your long posts of how they work, so how exactly did you gain knowledge on how they operate? which movie?

What a crock, do Russian hookers get work permits ? is running a brothel in walking street legal ? just getv real man

Ohhh i see now, so because there are foreign hookers that means its mafia? I guess there is also chinese mafia, african mafia, burmese mafia, cambodian mafia, Philippine mafia

Just to educate you those hookers are not Russian but Uzbeks

Just to let you know, there are dozens of brothels on Walking street, owned by Americans, english germans, irish, italians swiss etc, i guess they all must be mafia

[Orac]

Exactly which industries are dominated by russian nationals? Sounds more like the press trying to whip up a storm of xenophobia and sensationalism.

You are not Russian, are you;-)

Erm - no. But living in Pattaya I cannot see any industry that even comes close to being dominated by Russians - maybe you would care to enlighten me.

No Russian hookers on walking street ? are you blind ?

I guess we have different understandings of the word dominate.

[MB1]

For anyone to say there are no Russian mafia in Pattaya or Thailand is about as silly as saying there are no mafia in Italy or America, I'd say there are different types of mafia all over the world but back to the Pattaya alleged mafia or the denied Pattaya mafia by the chief of Banglamung, one only has to type in the words "Russian money laundering in Thailand" or "Russian organised crime money laundering in Thailand" and see what the search engine brings....?????

You only have to type in "Russian money laundering in Thailand" and see what the paper we are not to mention on TV has to say , If Chuvit a Rak Thai Party list MP is saying Russian gangsters are in Phuket, can we be sure none are in Pattaya and believe the Chief of Banglamung, next he'll be saying there is no corruption in Thailand and the BIB are all honest and never take tea money....OH well never mind, after all TIT....

[theblether]

Russian is a difficult language. Very few Thais are ever going to master it. The sensible solution would be to legalize more Russian tourism workers and watch them like hawks. The current underground situation feeds mafia building.

As soon as Russians are licensed those licenses will be immediately controlled by gangsters.

As sure as night follows day.

What a load of b*llshit. Come on everyone.. Being Russian doesn't mean you are a mafia member) Relax please. I'm a Russian businessman here in Pattaya. I can assure you there's no Russian mafia neither in Phuket nor in Pattaya. There are a lot of Russian-Thai owned businesses. Some Russians have Thai partners, some have wives, some use lawyers. Have to admit many of them don't have work permits. But when did that make you a Mafia? It took me 7 months to legally obtain a work permit. Until that time I paid 3,000 thb a month to Immigrration and 3,000 thb to Tourist Police. So am I the mafia?

The thing about Russians is that they never stand up for each other and usually disunited. Having said that I'm aware that there may be Russian criminals. Like the gang of credit card skimmers. Remember that one? Sure! Not a single Russian in that gang. But Eastern Europe is associated with Russian in your minds. You just need to grow out of your xenophobic cold war stereotypes. Keep hating Russians on your own.

I don't hate Russians, but I don't much like blinkered people.

So here's some questions for you.......are there Russian prostitutes working in Pattaya? Yes or No?

Are they highly conspicuous and tend to work in Russian dominated bars? Yes or No?

Who do you think is bringing them in? The Tooth Fairy? Yes or No?

Even the Russian media are openly stating that Pattaya is being used to wash money. The Russian Mafia are clearly active in Pattaya.

Are they dominant? No, the Thais are still dominant, but ask yourself this question, how else would these prostitutes be able to operate so brazenly unless there was organized crime paying off people.

Over to you.

ps You'll probably find that there is the same percentage of the population of Russia involved in gangsterism as there is in Italy. That being a tiny minority. It's just a shame the genuine people are tarred by the same brush.

Edited August 2, 2013 by theblether

[lemoncake]

Russian is a difficult language. Very few Thais are ever going to master it. The sensible solution would be to legalize more Russian tourism workers and watch them like hawks. The current underground situation feeds mafia building.

As soon as Russians are licensed those licenses will be immediately controlled by gangsters.

As sure as night follows day.

What a load of b*llshit. Come on everyone.. Being Russian doesn't mean you are a mafia member) Relax please. I'm a Russian businessman here in Pattaya. I can assure you there's no Russian mafia neither in Phuket nor in Pattaya. There are a lot of Russian-Thai owned businesses. Some Russians have Thai partners, some have wives, some use lawyers. Have to admit many of them don't have work permits. But when did that make you a Mafia? It took me 7 months to legally obtain a work permit. Until that time I paid 3,000 thb a month to Immigrration and 3,000 thb to Tourist Police. So am I the mafia?

The thing about Russians is that they never stand up for each other and usually disunited. Having said that I'm aware that there may be Russian criminals. Like the gang of credit card skimmers. Remember that one? Sure! Not a single Russian in that gang. But Eastern Europe is associated with Russian in your minds. You just need to grow out of your xenophobic cold war stereotypes. Keep hating Russians on your own.

I don't hate Russians, but I don't much like blinkered people.

So here's some questions for you.......are there Russian prostitutes working in Pattaya? Yes or No?

Are they highly conspicuous and tend to work in Russian dominated bars? Yes or No?

Who do you think is bringing them in? The Tooth Fairy? Yes or No?

Even the Russian media are openly stating that Pattaya is being used to wash money. The Russian Mafia are clearly active in Pattaya.

Are they dominant? No, the Thais are still dominant, but ask yourself this question, how else would these prostitutes be able to operate so brazenly unless there was organized crime paying off people.

Over to you.

ps You'll probably find that there is the same percentage of the population of Russia involved in gangsterism as there is in Italy. That being a tiny minority. It's just a shame the genuine people are tarred by the same brush.

Blether, there are Russian prostitutes and they they are working in bars, but there are also African prostitutes and Filipina prostitutes, it does not mean mafia brings them in.

Someone owns a business and brings in foreign workers, pays off local authority's and makes money.

There is no mafiosi secret plan there.

I can tell you, those girls are not tricked or lied too, they are told upfront what the job is and the cost of coming.

They are given a choice to make their own way or company can pay for them, and then take it out of their salary.

If you want see Russian Mafia in action, visit Europe or Israel or some Middle Eastern countries.

In Israel if the brothel gets raided, police station gets bombed

[MB1]

A question for lemoncake, Are you saying and agreeing with the Chief of Banlamung that there are no Russian mafia in Pattaya ?

[lemoncake]

For anyone to say there are no Russian mafia in Pattaya or Thailand is about as silly as saying there are no mafia in Italy or America, I'd say there are different types of mafia all over the world but back to the Pattaya alleged mafia or the denied Pattaya mafia by the chief of Banglamung, one only has to type in the words "Russian money laundering in Thailand" or "Russian organised crime money laundering in Thailand" and see what the search engine brings....?????

You only have to type in "Russian money laundering in Thailand" and see what the paper we are not to mention on TV has to say , If Chuvit a Rak Thai Party list MP is saying Russian gangsters are in Phuket, can we be sure none are in Pattaya and believe the Chief of Banglamung, next he'll be saying there is no corruption in Thailand and the BIB are all honest and never take tea money....OH well never mind, after all TIT....

For anyone to say there is active Russian Mafia in Thailand is about as silly as saying any business breaking some rules is part of mafia.

There are no different types of mafia, there are different activities in which mafia's get involved.

I will only say this, if there was active Russian mafia in Thailand, i am willing to bet my house by now some police or ministers would have been killed already,

[MB1]

For anyone to say there are no Russian mafia in Pattaya or Thailand is about as silly as saying there are no mafia in Italy or America, I'd say there are different types of mafia all over the world but back to the Pattaya alleged mafia or the denied Pattaya mafia by the chief of Banglamung, one only has to type in the words "Russian money laundering in Thailand" or "Russian organised crime money laundering in Thailand" and see what the search engine brings....?????

You only have to type in "Russian money laundering in Thailand" and see what the paper we are not to mention on TV has to say , If Chuvit a Rak Thai Party list MP is saying Russian gangsters are in Phuket, can we be sure none are in Pattaya and believe the Chief of Banglamung, next he'll be saying there is no corruption in Thailand and the BIB are all honest and never take tea money....OH well never mind, after all TIT....

For anyone to say there is active Russian Mafia in Thailand is about as silly as saying any business breaking some rules is part of mafia.

There are no different types of mafia, there are different activities in which mafia's get involved.

I will only say this, if there was active Russian mafia in Thailand, i am willing to bet my house by now some police or ministers would have been killed already,

So every thing in this link is all lies, imagined up by the Americans...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/238045