American spy program uses Thai servers

[frizbee999]

Thai servers, are they exist???

I would never keep anything in Thailand, ping to anywhere is soooooo long.

[Globeman]

There is a lot of interesting detail in that Xkeyscore Powerpoint, and that's from five years ago (2008).

"Show me all VPN start-ups in Country X, and give me the data so I can decrypt and discover the users"

"Sometimes a delicate balance of mission and research" (no mention of privacy of course)

With over 4 million people in the U.S. with top-secret security clearance, 500,000 of whom are private contractors, many of whom have been vetted by private contractors, you can bet there will be a lot more leaks and mis-use of intelligence gathering apparatus, in the future unless an example is made of Mr. Snowden, i.e. terminating his life.

Sorry, are you saying that Snowden didn't do the private citizens being spied on - like yourself - a favour? The misuse of intelligence gathering apparatus is spying on everyone - with no individual court orders ... everyoe is a suspect, and this is just fine with you, is it? The government and the security agencies are the criminals here, not the guy who tells everyone that this vile program is being conducted by an obviously paranoid govt.

[Publicus]

This XKescore revelation shows us how Wikileaks will publish all of the information, documents, techniques used by U.S. national and global security agencies, to include the legal and lawful XKeyscore program which operates abroad..

Once Wikileaks gives terrorist organizations around the world information about U.S. national security, the terrorists will be better able to devise attacks against the United States in the United States.

If Edward Snowden cared about personal privacy and the rights of the individual against the state, he would have restricted his theft of NSA materials to only the programs that directly affect U.S. citizens. Instead, however, Snowden took information and documents, along with techniques, concerning how the United States protects itself against attack by foreign terrorists, XKeyscore being one such program.

Snowden consciously and willfully took vital national security information and techniques that range far beyond information and documents that may directly affect the personal privacy of U.S. citizens in the United States. Snowden took information, documents, techniques that will inform the foreign enemies of the United States of how we protect ourselves against terrorist attacks in the United States.

Snowden's revelations to the left wing Guardian are only the small beginning of Snowden's anti-United States campaign.

Everything about Edward Snowden reveals he is not a whistleblower, nor is his doing a service to his country. Snowden has gone far out of bounds in the materials he stole from the NSA and other national security agencies to be considered a whistleblower. Snowden has provided the information to foreign governments, to date using the left wing Guardian newspaper almost exclusively..

Snowden's final and major action against the United States will come when Wikileaks further publishes all that Snowden has that goes well beyond matters of personal privacy in the United States. Wikileaks will publish more vital national security information than the Guardian has published, materials which will provide terrorists with information and knowledge they desperately seek so they can conduct attacks against the United States in the United States.

The NSA in its statement acknowledged the existence of XKeyscore for the sake of clarification and said it "is used as part of NSA's lawful foreign signals intelligence collection system."

"Public release of this classified material about NSA collection systems, without context, does nothing more than jeopardize sources and methods, and further confuse a very important issue for the country," it added.

I would also note that if the XKeyscore program is so onerous to some, then why do governments host the collection and storage centers in the CCP-PRC, Russia itself, Venezuela and other countries whose governments are not the best of friends toward the United States? We also see red dots throughout Europe, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Japan etc.

Thailand is a national security treaty ally of the United States, so this information presented today is just not shocking.

There seems to be a common global consensus among governments of all kinds that supports the XKeyscore program abroad.

[slipperylobster]

Realizing that there never has been anything private concerning the internet, this news is kind of dull.

Yes I imagine it would be for someone with those skills. Just curious - how long have you known now that all internet and telecommunications data have been intercepted and stored by the state for future retrieval? It's certainly news to me.

Let me think.... Ok. I was 17 when I was stationed in Iraklion Air Station, Crete, recording all sorts of "stuff". I am now 58. I would say 41 years. Of course, computers were not a common household item then. When the internet became popular, it was a no brainer that those communications would have to be monitored and stored as well.

[SinglePot]

"The idea that the US government is planning to intern masses of people has some history: In the 1980s, opponents of Ronald Reagan's Central America policy on the left thought that FEMA was planning a mass roundup of them just before the imminent U.S. invasion of "Nee-ka-hah-gua." Barely skipping a beat, it became a theory on the right-wing black helicopter/militia circuit in the '90s, among Alex Jones followers and truthers in the 2000s, and today by the more insane opponents of the Obama administration."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/FEMA_concentration_camps

[nami]

I don't want the governments screwing my privacy with the excuse of protecting me, I would trade my "security" for freedom any day (even if it wasn't BS).

Snowden just did what everyone should be doing, if the governments agencies were ethical then whistleblowers wouldn't exist. And all those privacy vulnerations aren't worth at all, look at all the terrorist attacks (Oh yes, it could be worse if there weren't any spy agencies investigating in our private lives lol). Maybe what it needs to be done is start revising some countries foreign policies like starting wars for getting control of regions or the goods in those regions.

[lomatopo]

Sorry, are you saying that Snowden didn't do the private citizens being spied on - like yourself - a favour? The misuse of intelligence gathering apparatus is spying on everyone - with no individual court orders ... everyoe is a suspect, and this is just fine with you, is it? The government and the security agencies are the criminals here, not the guy who tells everyone that this vile program is being conducted by an obviously paranoid govt.

I consider Mr. Snowden to be a true American and Patriot who made a huge personal sacrifice for his beliefs. Unltimately, I hope, he will be judged in a positive light.

I am more concerned about the hundreds of thousands of people who might be less patriotic, who have access to top secret intelligence gathering apparatus who might be using it for their own means. I suspect TSA personnel may be more highly vetted than those in the employ of the NSA and its partners. But at least they're just snoozing or stealing.

SA Workers Allegedly Stealing From Passengers and Sleeping on Duty

More outrage over the agency that is supposed to be keeping air travel safe.

02:34 | 07/30/2013

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/tsa-workers-allegedly-stealing-luggage-sleeping-duty-19821260

Half of Sleeping TSA Workers Get Little Punishment: GAO

By Jeff Plungis - 2013-07-31T15:36:49Z

The U.S. Transportation Security Administration isn’t consistent in disciplining workers accused of misconduct, penalizing some with little evidence while not imposing minimum sanctions on others, an audit concluded.

Half of workers accused of sleeping on the job received less than the lowest penalty called for by agency policies, the Government Accountability Office said in a report released yesterday. A House Homeland Security subcommittee is holding a hearing today on how the agency disciplines employees.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-30/half-of-sleeping-tsa-workers-get-little-punishment-gao.html

[Globeman]

According to wiki there are around 2.8 billion people in the world who use the Internet.

Me, SinglePot, is just one of those 2.8 billion.

I am not important.

Xkeyscore has no relevance to me and places no imposition on my life.

If it helps prevent terrorism, I am in favour.

What's all the drama about?

Do you really think this is to protect innocent people from terrorism? How many deaths per year are caused by terrorism? A fraction of those from road deaths, cancer, AIDS, etc... So why dedicate all the huge resources to preventing terrorism? Do you really take these guys at their word that this is the primary purpose of their surveillance?

Knowledge is power, and knowing everything everyone is saying and thinking is near absolute power. Do you think with that increase in power, that all other things will remain the same? Or do you think that perhaps some of the people in authority might just abuse it? History tends to indicate that they would.

And never mind the people at the top. A lower level functionary with access could use it to blackmail some neighbour he doesn't like, for example. That person may not have been doing anything illegal, but it could be something that would destroy his reputation or marriage, or... there are many possibilities.

At the root of it... these people DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to read what I am writing unless, like now, I choose to show it. The burden of proving whether this is unacceptable or not does not lie with the people being spied on, it lies with those doing the spying - the PUBLIC SERVANTS - not the public.

I don't know why so many people have such trouble grasping this. if you really have nothing to hide... show us all your willie.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Globeman

[Pinair]

You are being watched.

Hello Herold! See you on 9/24!

P.S. TOR is working great, with this f&&€|}{] Thai censorship.

[cdnvic]

Can't believe we still have to tell people this but Keep the Thai Royal Family out of political discussions! (posts/posters removed)

[lomatopo]

Let me think.... Ok. I was 17 when I was stationed in Iraklion Air Station, Crete, recording all sorts of "stuff". I am now 58. I would say 41 years. Of course, computers were not a common household item then. When the internet became popular, it was a no brainer that those communications would have to be monitored and stored as well.

Operation Shamrock began during WWII:

Operation Shamrock was a covert, domestic intelligence gathering operation that monitored telegraph communications. Shamrock began as a military intelligence program during World War II, but continued until the 1970s. The operation sparked controversy when details of Shamrock were leaked to the public after a government investigation in 1975. The government investigative committee claimed that Shamrock intended to monitor only messages that posed a threat to national security, but that it had free access to all wire traffic.

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/espionage/Nt-Pa/Operation-Shamrock.html#ixzz2aoGNUXB9

Some contend that our "Surveillance State" began during the Lincoln administration:

In 1862, after President Abraham Lincoln appointed him secretary of war, Edwin M. Stanton penned a letter to the president requesting sweeping powers, which would include total control of the telegraph lines. By rerouting those lines through his office, Stanton would keep tabs on vast amounts of communication, journalistic, governmental and personal. On the back of Stanton’s letter Lincoln scribbled his approval: “The Secretary of War has my authority to exercise his discretion in the matter within mentioned.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/opinion/lincolns-surveillance-state.html

[ABCer]

It is a pity that NSA , MI6 or FSB have to waste their valuable resources spying on individuals.

I have nothing to hide that may endanger USA, GB or RF respectively.

Therefore in a true spirit of co-operation I am volunteering to help and hereby authorize these organisations to access my personal information:

X-Rays results; Blood tests results, MRI scan results, tax declarations. The only thing they will have to do on their own is Proctoscopy.

[prvtdetdave]

Let me tell you about insecurity and world domination Mr wealth.

When I lived and worked in Beijing I lived in constant fear of being visited by the Chinese Communist Party.

I have no fear in Thailand or the good old United Kingdom or the US of A.

are you aware that Mao was installed by the elite? David Rockefeller called it a huge success after 70 million people were starved to death or killed by other means?

Ask yourself, on what is the feeling of your "security" based on?

Rubbish.

[slipperylobster]

It seems strange that people still think of the internet as they would think of, for example, the U.S. Mail. The internet is an open, world-wide system. Very few laws exists for your protection.You are warned openly that your information is not secure when you are in public places, such as airports. I am reading posts that say, "I have a right to privacy on the internet". Please provide me details on this guarantee of privacy. What countries abide by your plea for privacy? What international court of law would you go to when your privacy has been invaded? Sending private mail on a wild joyride throughout the world wide net, and then complaining that somebody might read something that you wrote is kind of childish. Remember the old days when international telephone calls are used to be transmitted by short wave? Did anyone ever go to jail for tuning in to your conversation? You can encode your email, if you think that your personal space is being invaded. Thats fine. But please stop expecting the world to bend over backwards to protect your precious correspondence.

[Publicus]

There is a lot of interesting detail in that Xkeyscore Powerpoint, and that's from five years ago (2008).

"Show me all VPN start-ups in Country X, and give me the data so I can decrypt and discover the users"

"Sometimes a delicate balance of mission and research" (no mention of privacy of course)

With over 4 million people in the U.S. with top-secret security clearance, 500,000 of whom are private contractors, many of whom have been vetted by private contractors, you can bet there will be a lot more leaks and mis-use of intelligence gathering apparatus, in the future unless an example is made of Mr. Snowden, i.e. terminating his life.

Sorry, are you saying that Snowden didn't do the private citizens being spied on - like yourself - a favour? The misuse of intelligence gathering apparatus is spying on everyone - with no individual court orders ... everyoe is a suspect, and this is just fine with you, is it? The government and the security agencies are the criminals here, not the guy who tells everyone that this vile program is being conducted by an obviously paranoid govt.

Snowden took more than domestic NSA programs.

National security authorities have said Snowden took just about everything, to include how U.S. national security agencies get their intelligence about terrorists abroad, CCP-PRC military capabilities and cyber spying, Russian spying on the U.S., North Korean nuclear and missile capabilities and much more.

Snowden took much, much more than he needed to if he'd been determined only to focus on the domestic aspects of his beef against the government. Snowden took national security information and techniques the U.S. government uses to protect the United States against terrorist attacks from abroad in the United States.

You are welcome to focus on the domestic aspects of Snowden's revelations. I'm greatly concerned about all the additional information and techniques beyond that that, for whatever reasons, Snowden took that is useful only to the enemies of the United States, terrorists in particular.

The terrorists along with ourselves will be reading in Wikileaks all of the vital national security information and techniques Snowden took beyond the domestic NSA activities, the very information that will be useful to terrorists in their infinite campaign to try to destroy the United States..

[slipperylobster]

Correction. Everything happy until Dec 21 1988. Pan Am 103.

Anybody got an email address for the NSA. I need to declare all my personal information.

SP

British traveller.

Yes, you can reach them here,

http://www.nsa.gov/

I believe you can talk to Betty, in the Customer Service Link

[Publicus]

Conclusion! A nation's people can only perform well when they're well informed and with credibility. Who initiated, in corporation, these spying activities in Thailand? Well, we'll get the answers anyway ... Could give you a hint ... and not far fetched either ... not to forget to mention the leaks to corporate businesses out of these activities ...

These local and international supporters who restrict freedom and liberty with extensive spying on them will be exposed.

Probably the best three and a half minutes on American TV ever below ...

That was stated better than I ever could state it. But it is exactly how I feel.

Which does not mean or imply that America cannot be once it once was.

America has never been anything other than what it is now. America got rid of the English during the war of Independence in 1783, however it never got rid of England. The same system that drove the British Empire is still in force today in the USA. It has been there from the beginning. Systems control people, people don't control systems.

There have been wars against Islamic nations for a thousand years...well be before the US was even conceived.

The drama is about drumming up anti-Americanism most likely.

Wasting your time. Americans are too conditioned to be capable of grasping what you are saying. In the American population mindset, everything was happy and nice until 9/11. They were the worlds best friend and the upholders of freedom and peace. For the vast majority, they are simply incapable of looking any further than this.

I'm reading evidence of a severe cultural deficit of attitude toward the United States.

[ImNotaGuiri]

First of all Obama/Biden are not as corrupt as their predecessors. They are simply traveling down a road that was paved for them by the previous administration.

Second, that information is out there and will remain out there. Did anybody really think that nobody would ever have access to it?

Sorry Mr President but the ability of the state to retrieve every email, phone call, skype session and all the data I have ever sent or received via the internet or telephone at will is NOT a "modest" reduction in my privacy.

The Obama/Biden regime is just as corrupt as the Bush/Chaney regime and all before them that do the bidding of the military industrial complex.

I think that presidents of the United States, no matter which one, are no less puppet than Yingluck here in Thailand. All of them have a "black hand" that moves their threads. They are just there for you all play the funny game of "democracy" and so you feel a part of it, then who really rules the country set up a war on behalf of it in any part of the world… Meanwhile other countries look scared s**tless their movements without saying a word to avoid suffering a blockade of supplies or break bonds of "friendship", in the best of cases…

I hope appear in their databases as persona non grata.

Crazy world, where old enemies is now made great friends, and old enemies actitutes are adopted as new models. I do not understand anything, nor at this point hopefully understand. That they passed out the world and poke it up… where they see it fits

If I was not yet on the database, now I am

Edited August 2, 2013 by ImNotaGuiri

[SinglePot]

Correction. Everything happy until Dec 21 1988. Pan Am 103.

Anybody got an email address for the NSA. I need to declare all my personal information.

SP

British traveller.

Yes, you can reach them here,

http://www.nsa.gov/

I believe you can talk to Betty, in the Customer Service Link

Wonder if shell give me her personal mobile number and email address. I might fall in love with her.

thanks.

[ClutchCargo]

I am not a terrorist. I have nothing to hide or fear. If "Big Brother" wants to read my email in exchange for keeping the lives of my family safe, by all means, have at it. I don't like it, but it may be that I must sacrifice a portion of my privacy in order to secure the safety of fellow Americans, and others on this planet.

Its a messed up world, and it seems to have been determined that "all available means" are being employed to assure the safety of its citizens. Not a bad trade off when you consider the alternatives. If history has anything to show, it is clear that government meddling in foreign affairs will continue. And lets be clear on this point, my government is not alone in these unsavory practices, they are only the ones most recently caught. There will be more, many more. Do you think that the host countries of the Xkeyscore server sites offered their cooperation for nothing? The data is most certainly being shared with the host government.

We can shake our fists in the direction of our capitol cities, or sit in our basements on a pile of rice, with a shotgun on our laps, wearing tin foil hats, waiting for the apocalypse. Both are equally ineffective. Or, we can go about our lives secure in the fact that we are not the ones they are looking for, that the world we have created for ourselves now requires that we submit to government watchdog practices, and realize that our personal secrets are not the intended target of government data mining. Ultimately we must hang on to the hope that one day we can all show tolerance to each other in our global community, and that the sacrifices to our privacy will someday no longer be warranted.

Did the United States make a mistake giving Snowden top secret clearance? Yes they did. However, it happens. After all, even monkeys fall out of trees. The fallout from that mistake may rattle some cages in Washington for a while, but despite all of this, the sun will rise tomorrow, life will go on, and the significance of my email on the world order will remain negligible. I see no practical alternative than to just make peace with this whole mess and get on with my life. Is this so wrong?

And then there is the obvious alternative for those who are particularly outraged: Turn off your computer, read a good book, or spend your leisure time interacting with real world family and friends. Problem solved. Smell the roses.

[mca]

Let me tell you about insecurity and world domination Mr wealth.

When I lived and worked in Beijing I lived in constant fear of being visited by the Chinese Communist Party.

I have no fear in Thailand or the good old United Kingdom or the US of A.

Of course. Why on earth would the Chinese Communist Party want to visit you in those places?

[simple1]

This XKescore revelation shows us how Wikileaks will publish all of the information, documents, techniques used by U.S. national and global security agencies, to include the legal and lawful XKeyscore program which operates abroad..

I would also note that if the XKeyscore program is so onerous to some, then why do governments host the collection and storage centers in the CCP-PRC, Russia itself, Venezuela and other countries whose governments are not the best of friends toward the United States? We also see red dots throughout Europe, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Japan etc.

Thailand is a national security treaty ally of the United States, so this information presented today is just not shocking.

There seems to be a common global consensus among governments of all kinds that supports the XKeyscore program abroad.

Suggest you have the wrong end of the stick; provide the link that states Russia and so on has permitted hosting the application on their territory. Either the app has been covertly inserted on servers, or would be hosted on Servers at US/allies facilities. The alleged 150+ locations are probably used for covertly connecting to local country comms pipes (whether that be satellite or fibre optic) for sucking up data. Their must be a big investment in secure comms to ship the data for centralised data processing or maybe some of the data is subject to distributed data processing.

http://www.ticotimes.net/More-news/News-Briefs/Meet-the-NSA-s-new-data-centers-Russia-China-and-Venezuela_Thursday-August-01-2013

[slipperylobster]

Correction. Everything happy until Dec 21 1988. Pan Am 103.

Anybody got an email address for the NSA. I need to declare all my personal information.

SP

British traveller.

Yes, you can reach them here,

http://www.nsa.gov/

I believe you can talk to Betty, in the Customer Service Link

Wonder if shell give me her personal mobile number and email address. I might fall in love with her.

thanks.

she already knows....

[Scott]

A lot of off-topic, inflammatory, anti-almost everything posts and replies have been deleted. Stay on the topic and keep the discussion relevant to something. Conspiracy theories simply are not going to be tolerated.

[SinglePot]

seems like you've been around slipperylobster.

Respect.

[SinglePot]

your welcome.

[SOTIRIOS]

....I had that 'impression'....

...I have a few Facebook 'friends'....that I don't really know....that post some 'anti-establishment' stuff...and whenever I 'liked'...or made a favorable comment...

...my Facebook was blocked on several occasions......my computer even crashed once...and I once got a message that my email had been hacked....

...needless to say....I now just read posts......without commenting...except for Thaivisa....maybe I better stop posting here too....

[Publicus]

Let me tell you about insecurity and world domination Mr wealth.

When I lived and worked in Beijing I lived in constant fear of being visited by the Chinese Communist Party.

I have no fear in Thailand or the good old United Kingdom or the US of A.

Of course. Why on earth would the Chinese Communist Party want to visit you in those places?

Do you really want to know?

PM to me.

[Publicus]

This XKescore revelation shows us how Wikileaks will publish all of the information, documents, techniques used by U.S. national and global security agencies, to include the legal and lawful XKeyscore program which operates abroad..

I would also note that if the XKeyscore program is so onerous to some, then why do governments host the collection and storage centers in the CCP-PRC, Russia itself, Venezuela and other countries whose governments are not the best of friends toward the United States? We also see red dots throughout Europe, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Japan etc.

Thailand is a national security treaty ally of the United States, so this information presented today is just not shocking.

There seems to be a common global consensus among governments of all kinds that supports the XKeyscore program abroad.

Suggest you have the wrong end of the stick; provide the link that states Russia and so on has permitted hosting the application on their territory. Either the app has been covertly inserted on servers, or would be hosted on Servers at US/allies facilities. The alleged 150+ locations are probably used for covertly connecting to local country comms pipes (whether that be satellite or fibre optic) for sucking up data. Their must be a big investment in secure comms to ship the data for centralised data processing or maybe some of the data is subject to distributed data processing.

http://www.ticotimes.net/More-news/News-Briefs/Meet-the-NSA-s-new-data-centers-Russia-China-and-Venezuela_Thursday-August-01-2013

You introduce the matter specifically of whether the "host" governments of the countries identified on Snowden's NSA map, provided to the Guardian, are specifically aware they are facilitating the XKeyscore program, its methods and techniques, its purposes and ends.

I believe the Guardian article, which I have only perused, was silent in this respect - you can clarify on this point if required or desired.

So you're suggesting the "host" governments didn't know?

That would seem to be the case, given that a number of the countries identified by the red dots, i.e., Russia, Venezuela, the CCP-PRC and others are hostile toward the United States.

I believe you and I are on the same page, as it were.

[Loptr]

Privacy in the electronic age is a myth, much like the unicorn. You want privacy, then go off the grid. Which is something most cannot do as their addiction to technology outweighs their desire for privacy. Best to get used to it as the genie is out of the bottle and it cannot be corked up again, no matter what anyone says or does.

Just what does google know about you?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-01/what-google-knows-about-you

Edited August 2, 2013 by Loptr