Bangkok Post Letters Page.

[Heng]

For myself the reason is the body odor issue (probably not really your fault if you're a tourist or not yet used to the climate).

1) Approach seat

2) sample air in proximity to said falang (or person of Southern Asian descent, Thai construction worker looking fellow, anyone really...)

3) sit down or move on casually.

[think_too_mut]

There was an interesting letter in the post today with the writer askng why Thais won't take a seat next to him if there is even a rusty spike to sit on.

I have noticed this many times. On a few occasions Thais have slid across to a seat that becomes empty. I am assured my hygiene is above question. So, why do they do it?

I imagine some females might not want anyone to see them and presume they are with the farang stranger.

Or is it that Thais are not very cosmopolitan? Along with the more dubious benefits of multi-cultureism it has at least exposed me to other colours and cultures and don't feel the need to leap out of my seat when the next one is occupied by someone different to myself.

Discuss.

6-7- or 8 weeks ago similar letter was "answered" in the Stickman's answer section.

Lady Stick told him well - there must be some kind of a problem.

IMO, the same guy is going the rounds for more.

With strangers aboard, in a bus, plane, train...anyone would elect to sit alone if possible.

This thwat is disturbed about that, wants people to sit with him.

Why anyone can't take the obviuos guess - the guy may look dangerous, a threat or whatever? Has anyone seen him?

If all the surrounding is responding the way he likes to complain about, who the hel_l he is?

King Kong?

IMO, an another social reject from the West.

[britmaveric]

Try an experiment - purposely choose a seat that is occuppied by a Thai and sit down to the free seat next to them. If they move then well - we've leanred smth. However I agree with TTM - everyone would prefer a seat to themselves ie personal space issue.

[think_too_mut]

Try an experiment - purposely choose a seat that is occuppied by a Thai and sit down to the free seat next to them. If they move then well - we've leanred smth. However I agree with TTM - everyone would prefer a seat to themselves ie personal space issue.

Could be my own kink...I have never took a seat on the SkyTrain. Never mind all or most of the seats are vacant. Always standing. Happy to see that mickey mouse transport once a year.

One thing that puzzles me is - when I have a baby in my hands, no person would give a seat. Not that I need it for a 3-6 mins ride.

They do look at the baby and me and mother, taking measures. But no seats.

Oh, to be honest, farangs, they do. Even coming from an another carriage, knowing we have entered at the same station. they would come and ask us to rest at their seats.

Not a big deal, the baby girl loves to see the scenery passsing by, if I stand up and hold her to the window.

[qualtrough]

Years ago I friend and I were returning on the train from Butterworth. A young Thai girl had been booked in the seat directly across from my friend. During the waking hours of the entire trip she glued her face to the window and refused to look at my friend, or let anyone see her face. It was obvious she was mortified to think that someone might think she was 'with' the farang. She looked like a sourpuss anyway. Oh, how I relished her misery...

But closer to the topic at hand, a few years back I was on one of the micro buses. A cute young think boarded, and much to my shock (since there were other seats available) plopped down next to me. Then it got weirder when she handed me her earphones and invited me to listen to the song on her Walkman or whatever it was. Had a nice chat and she handed me her card from the shop she worked in at Mah Boon Krong before she left. I never followed up as I was (am) married. Doh!

[Plus]

If I have a choice on the skytrain - a seat next to a farang or a lovely Thai girl, what whould I chose? Let me think.

Or if it was a choice between a farang and a black guy? Or a black woman? Black guy vs. black woman? (how big is the woman?)

Seriously, in a situation like this I would immediately weigh the farang against available Thais. Sometimes Thais win, sometimes farang. Appearance and facial expression are most important for me. Then bodily odour can override any previous decisions.

I don't expect any Thais to start a conversation on BTS, but some farangs look like they might.

I'm also fully aware that many Thais won't sit next to ME if given a choice - I also have a place on their social ladder. Doesn't bother me if we share the same values, it's when I think they chose a wrong Thai over me I feel embarassed. Need some face adjustment.

[English Noodles]

If I have a choice on the skytrain - a seat next to a farang or a lovely Thai girl, what whould I chose? Let me think.

Or if it was a choice between a farang and a black guy? Or a black woman? Black guy vs. black woman? (how big is the woman?)

Seriously, in a situation like this I would immediately weigh the farang against available Thais. Sometimes Thais win, sometimes farang. Appearance and facial expression are most important for me. Then bodily odour can override any previous decisions.

I don't expect any Thais to start a conversation on BTS, but some farangs look like they might.

I'm also fully aware that many Thais won't sit next to ME if given a choice - I also have a place on their social ladder. Doesn't bother me if we share the same values, it's when I think they chose a wrong Thai over me I feel embarassed. Need some face adjustment.

People should realy stop trying to analize every little part about living in a foreign land and just get on with enjoying life. Sometimes i cant believe how much people think about the smallest of things. I wish my life was simple enough to give me time, well then again i dont.

[verzenden]

I'm a farang student here in bkk for almost a year now and find it extremely hard to hook up with the Thais and socialize with them. I'm pretty surprised by your BTS experiences, maybe i just never noticed. Will start paying attention now. As a student in a international program i do happen to be the only farang in class. All students are supposed to speak english during class time but of course they prefer to speak Thai. My Thai is just to bad, well the prenounciation, they probably don't realize i understand most of it or at least the subject. I gave up on speaking Thai ( i know, it's a shame)

Specially during the first semester whenever i asked a question or started a chat with one of my fellow students mostly i got a shy response: "Solly my English not good". Note: these students are inrolled in a international program but mostly pushed into it by their 'hi-so' parents. (that's probably why they need to cheat and copy all their homework etc), some only seem to know 'yes and no'. I start to get off topic. I admit it improved slightly now during the second semester but anyway i am a social outcast! Whenever a class is cancelled or something else, no-one bothers to inform me, it's sometimes so annoying.

I still live under the impression that it's a pure form of being jalous. We are white and we have the money. I definetly don't think it's got anything to do with respect or what so ever. Thai's are the most unpolite disrespectful students i have ever seen (sorry if anyone feels offended, I know i generalize) They don't even bother to stop chatting loudly whenever someone is giving a presentation to give 1 of many examples.

To come back to public transport, whenever i see for example a very fat person with a unoccupied seat next to him/her i go and sit there, i really can't be bothered. Taking busses is another story, i always feel all eyes pointed at me whenever i take the bus. It's the what you do in our busses feeling. Familiar?

Anyway i keep being confused. Bangkokians seem to envy the west in my opinion and trying to hook up with 'us' and at the same time trying to maintain their own standards / culture. Either they have got a major identitiy crisis or it's just me. Maybe we just generalize to much. There so many exceptions as well. I love to be more accepted but don't have any expectations (anymore). I do get a much greater understanding and respect for the foreigners in my home country. I feel like being painted black in my own country but think the perspective so far is interesting.

I admit, if there's any reason to leave this beautiful Kingdom, in time, it will be coz of being a social outcast. The land of smiles or being smiled at? I still feel i don't see the whole picture...

just me,

[jdinasia]

it is just you! If you are student age and not pulling it REALLY is just you!

[Sing_Sling]

Yup, it not just in Thailand, as mentioned peviously. It happens in HK, Japan and here in Singapore.

My wife, who is a local Chinese, explained to me that locals are afraid that 'Ang Moh' (Whiteys in Hokkien) will start a conversation and that is too 'in your face' for Asians as well as being embarassed about their English skills.

It's true, when we're back in the old country we chat with people while queueing at the supermarket, post office etc . . . Doesn't happen all that often in Asia.

Mind you, here the Chinese will also won't sit next to Indians or Malays if they can avoid it, for different reasons.

[Thaible]

Anyway i keep being confused. Bangkokians seem to envy the west in my opinion and trying to hook up with 'us' and at the same time trying to maintain their own standards / culture. Either they have got a major identitiy crisis or it's just me. Maybe we just generalize to much. There so many exceptions as well. I love to be more accepted but don't have any expectations (anymore). I do get a much greater understanding and respect for the foreigners in my home country. I feel like being painted black in my own country but think the perspective so far is interesting.

I admit, if there's any reason to leave this beautiful Kingdom, in time, it will be coz of being a social outcast. The land of smiles or being smiled at? I still feel i don't see the whole picture...

just me,

It's just you. But at least you're still young so you can fix that.

I have never heard of any farang student being an outcast, especially in an international program. In fact, it should be the opposite.

But go ahead and blame everyone else for your own faults. You seem to have some anti-social tendencies which may be difficult to overcome, but at least you're still young. As proof that it's you, you said yourself "I feel like being painted black in my own country".

[Griffin]

AHHH!! jdinasia. Thanks for your input. I notice you have returned to this thread to hurl the same abuse at posters that notice this. Good on you!

After a good read, a chat over drinks last night and the letter in the BP it seems that this seat thing is quite common. Of course it is far from every day, just often enough that I notice. However, I, like at least one other poster have had a Thai lady strike up a conversation with me and once a BTS employee. A nice way to pass the time on the late train.

I'm not convinced that Thais worry that we will just strike up a conversation about lamas. I get the feeling that there is something else.

When I think about how welcoming Thais are at temples and celebrations (Songkran, Loi kratong etc) it seems odd that they should change on the BTS. So, What could it be?

For those of you that feel it best to sling "you stink" comments at anyone who has had this happen. I live close to a quiet station, close enough to be squeaky clean, and usually sit reading while plugged in to my mp3.

[Thaible]

I always get a weird feeling that some Farangs sitting next to me would try to cop a feel, although honestly that has never happened in my entire life. The weird thing is that this is pretty common in Japan, so they now have separate cars for women, but I'm not as paranoid sitting next to a Japanese.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Thaible

[Griffin]

verzenden. What course are you taking? From my own experience, if you offer to help your class mates with their English and they with your Thai while seeming to make a bit of a joke of the situation, it may work wonders.

I worked with a group of young Thais and found them to most welcoming. I was invited out to dinner several times. So much Thai socialising revolves around food, that it may be a good idea to buy something tasty from your country and offer it around.

Just a thought.

[Sing_Sling]

verzenden. I was invited out to dinner several times. So much Thai socialising revolves around food, that it may be a good idea to buy something tasty from your country and offer it around.

Just a thought.

No offense, but 'verzenden' is probably Dutch and something tasty from Holland would be raw hareng, bitterballetjes or broodje krokett . . . not something that would scintilate Thai tastebuds (I worked there fpr 5 years). If he were from Belgium . . . .different story.

But a good idea, Griffin

Edited April 13, 2006 by Sing_Sling

[meemiathai]

I'm not convinced that Thais worry that we will just strike up a conversation about lamas. I get the feeling that there is something else.

Trust me. It is true. I have been living here in HK for all my life(37 yrs) with the chinese and I know exactly what is in their minds. And thais aren't much different from them. It may not necessarily be about striking up a conversation, it's just that there is a potential risk that they might get themselves into situations that they might not know how to handle and thence losing face. For those who have thai partners, ask them and see if they think I'm right.

When I think about how welcoming Thais are at temples and celebrations (Songkran, Loi kratong etc) it seems odd that they should change on the BTS. So, What could it be?

These are different people who are more used to farangs and also when in different situations their mood is different.

[verzenden]

Yes i'm Dutch. Could not think of any Dutch delights that could satisfy my fellow students, no really where could i buy them here? I do know a dutch restaurant at soy cowboy, but it looks Dutch, does not taste that way! Anyway i think it's a good suggestion, thx.

I do have a lack of social skills. My mental condition suffered greatly over the last few years after suffering of a burnout at the age of 23! As a healing i started traveling around the world and ended up here. I'm still as i consider it in the proces of healing, believe me that really takes a long time. Some of you might understand.

In general i would describe myself as a nice and friendly person, in my home country i do have some very good friends who stayed with me and supported me in my worst times. I thank and love them for that. I think we have to concider the age difference as another huge factor, currently i'm 26 and most of my fellow students are 18, 19 years old. And i admit we do not share same interests except for the major we choose for.

Please do not think of me as being desperate, it's just a desire. My life is pretty satisfying here and i consider myself being happy now. I not 'need' a fellow student as my friend but it would just be nice if they would inform me as well if for example a class is cancelled. I do get along with the other farang students, mostly older as well. We are in general just two groups that rarely mix, the farang vs Thai students. We see all day but live our separate lives. (there are a few exceptions, mostly international orientated Thais who master their english better than me).

I could tell you my major and uni but i do feel the desire to maintain some form of privacy in this forum.

Just me,

[John K]

Apparently this is an appearance thing. Depending on how I am dressed at the moment seems to reflect the same behavior on the skytrain. If I am wearing my off the clock clothes vacant adjacent seats seem to appear.

[taxexile]

For myself the reason is the body odor issue (probably not really your fault if you're a tourist or not yet used to the climate).

1) Approach seat

2) sample air in proximity to said falang (or person of Southern Asian descent, Thai construction worker looking fellow, anyone really...)

3) sit down or move on casually.

please accept our humble apologies for the way we must smell to you , with our beery and sulphurous breath , our cheesy and fetid feet , our burbulent and thunderous farts ,our stale and steaming sweat and our humid and hairy armpits , it certainly cant be much fun for the squeaky clean thais to have to travel amongst such unsavoury specimens.

but despite our filthy and neanderthal habits and undoubted air of unspeakable menace and foulness we are grateful to be allowed to use your public trains , buses and boats where we can watch our magnanimous hosts pull long sticky green boogers from their noses ,(such tiny delicate noses , such huge amounts of snot !!) lumps of wax from their ears , yesterdays breakfast from their teeth and all manner of wildlife from their heads.

its not easy for us either !

i'm often grateful for that empty seat next to me.

Edited April 13, 2006 by taxexile

[skylar]

I could tell you my major and uni but i do feel the desire to maintain some form of privacy in this forum.

Well, we already know your name and uni since you signed off on your first post as Kevin @ Bangkok Uni. However, the name Kevin does not strike me as being a particularly Dutch name...

[sbk]

Well, as a woman I have never had a woman move away from the seat next to me but have had women move to the seat next to me as they feel more comfortable sitting in close proximity with another woman (farang or no) than with a man (farang or thai).

This has happened on the skytrain and the overnight bus.

[taxexile]

women move to the seat next to me as they feel more comfortable sitting in close proximity with another woman (farang or no) than with a man (farang or thai).

and that , in a nutshell , is all that needs to be said to answer the original posters question.

[jing jing]

It happens on occasion. I will often do the same thing - move over if there is extra space, even if there is a pretty girl next to me - just to return the favor and keep them guessing.

[1Lucky]

Quote "This does not only happen in Thailand. It happens in HK or other Chinese places as well.

Having grown up in HK, I have to say I do the same. I am not very sure why. Maybe it is the uncertainty of not knowing what is going to happen next if one sits next to a farang. How I am going to react if he starts up a conversation. For I don't speak very good english. Funnily enough, I am half a farang and I notice people doing the same to me.

Nowadays, I am more confident of communicating with farangs, so the main reason would be I hate to sit next to a man."

I have lived in both Hong Kong and Bangkok and have never had this happen to me. IMHO this must be something to do with the particular individual - eg they stink/look like a wino/pervert. If I were you I would keep this under my hat if it happened to me.

Lucky

[troglodyte]

just me,

personally, as another farang that has gone through one of those international

programs, i can agree with a lot of your experiences. i can't say i agree with all

of your assessment and reasoning. it is also not clear why the others follow-up and

attack you as being the culprit.

as far as their scholastic endeavors - it is easy to see why not a whole lot of

rocket-scientists come out of this academic system. what Thais consider

teamwork, would be thought of as plaigirism and cheating in the west. coming

to class late 20-30 minutes, talking while the professor is lecturing, etc. is

common behavior.

Whenever a class is cancelled or something else, no-one bothers to inform me, it's sometimes so annoying.

can't even remember how many times this has happened to me....

i don't think all of this is too far off the topic of sitting on the train - basically

boils down to "invading the space" of a group of people who are very uncomfortable

out of their zones....

trog

[meemiathai]

I have lived in both Hong Kong and Bangkok and have never had this happen to me. IMHO this must be something to do with the particular individual - eg they stink/look like a wino/pervert. If I were you I would keep this under my hat if it happened to me.

Lucky

Are you chinese? You know the chinese' mentality? You are just simply insensitive enough not to notice anything.

[Maigo6]

Personally I've never had a problem.

I'm clean, well dressed and well fed.

The average English Teacher may be dirty, overhung, and undernourished........................living on the fantastic salary they get , what do they expect?

Edited April 14, 2006 by Maigo6

[Patex]

For myself the reason is the body odor issue (probably not really your fault if you're a tourist or not yet used to the climate).

1) Approach seat

2) sample air in proximity to said falang (or person of Southern Asian descent, Thai construction worker looking fellow, anyone really...)

3) sit down or move on casually.

please accept our humble apologies for the way we must smell to you , with our beery and sulphurous breath , our cheesy and fetid feet , our burbulent and thunderous farts ,our stale and steaming sweat and our humid and hairy armpits , it certainly cant be much fun for the squeaky clean thais to have to travel amongst such unsavoury specimens.

but despite our filthy and neanderthal habits and undoubted air of unspeakable menace and foulness we are grateful to be allowed to use your public trains , buses and boats where we can watch our magnanimous hosts pull long sticky green boogers from their noses ,(such tiny delicate noses , such huge amounts of snot !!) lumps of wax from their ears , yesterdays breakfast from their teeth and all manner of wildlife from their heads.

its not easy for us either !

i'm often grateful for that empty seat next to me.

taxexile, want come over and finish my joghurt?? I don't want him anymore

[Savage]

Personally I've never had a problem.

I'm clean, well dressed and well fed.

The average English Teacher may be dirty, overhung, and undernourished........................living on the fantastic salary they get , what do they expect?

Baring in mind that the average English teacher earns between 25,000 - 40,000 bhat a month & the average Thai office worker earns between 10,000 - 12,000 bhat a month I think they make more than enough to adequately nourish themselves. If not, just how do you suppose that 90% of the Thai population survive?

I agree with the hung over look though, i've seen plenty of Westerners looking like they've spent a long time on the piss but i'd say a lot more tourists than English teachers.

I can't help but feel that some of the people who claim it has never happened to them are either looking at things through rose tinted spectacles or not really taking in their surroundings.

As for smiling at everybody goes, I take the skytrain every morning and can confirm that absolutely nobody smiles at each other. Maybe at the occasional cute child.

On the subject of cute children, i've also heard numerous reports of Westerners getting on the skytrain and people looking in the other direction where if they were Thai they would be jumping up to offer their seats.

[taxexile]

riding the skytrain here has become the same as riding the tube trains in london , its a chore.

its crowded , and you are stuck in very close proximity to people that in 99% of cases you do not know and do not want to know. you just sit or stand there willing your journey to end.

hardly the ideal environment for friendly or polite behaviour.

its true that most caucasians look a sorry sight compared to their asian couterparts .

the sweat , the fat , the sandals with socks , the often socially unacceptable companions and the general unkempt nature of so many visitors is just highlighted when put next to the well turned out thai , who can look $1,000,000 even when wearing B200 worth of street market tat.