Perpetrators of abuses during 2010 violence must be held accountable: UN

[webfact]

AMNESTY BILL
Perpetrators of abuses during 2010 violence must be held accountable: UN
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The United Nations human rights office today voiced concern at an amnesty bill being discussed this week in Thailand's Parliament that, if adopted, could pardon people involved in serious rights violations during the political violence that occurred in April and May 2010.

More than 90 people died and thousands were injured in the Southeast Asian nation during that period, according to the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR).

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Thailand (TRCT) set up in the wake of the violence issued a report containing serious and substantive findings backed by forensic evidence and which recommended urgent action to ensure accountability for human rights abuses.

"We reiterate the previous call by the High Commissioner for the Government to act on the TRCT's recommendations and ensure that state officials and others are held to account for their role in serious human rights abuses," OHCHR spokesperson Cécile Pouilly told reporters in Geneva. "This would set an important precedent for Thailand."

OHCHR also called on the Government to ensure that any amnesty excludes those who are responsible for human rights violations and to take steps to prosecute perpetrators of such violations.


-- The Nation 2013-08-07

[Tatsujin]

No amnesty for Thaksin then.

[Robby nz]

I suppose it all depends how you define human rights.

Is firing grenades into army ranks, at sky train stations and at all the other targets a violation of human rights?

Is taking over an area of a city's business district a violation of the human rights of those who live and work there?

Is invading a hospital so the patients have to be moved out an invasion of the human rights of the patients and staff?

Is burning down buildings a violation of human rights?

Or do you define a Government putting down armed riots as they are required to do by law a violation of the rioters human rights?

[A Member]

I wonder if Thailand will tell the UN it's all in hand and that the totally independent DSI are pilling up the charges against Abhisit and Suthep who were responsible for everything.

The red shirts were peacefully taking over a hospital, peacefully rioting and setting fire to Central Word when for no reason the army was ordered to fire.

[pisico]

No amnesty for Thaksin then.

Or Abhisit, Suthep and the military directly involved in any massacre: recent or in the past.

[Roadman]

It is refreshing to see yet more world bodies calling Pheu Thai to account over this bill. Thai business need to wake up to the sway of world bodies that is calling them to account over violations and incompetences across all their fields of governance. Thai credibility continues to slide down the dunnie.

[OzMick]

Hmmm.....HR abuses are UNacceptable but nothing said about murder, arson, rioting, and all the other fun and games that were played. Or are they included?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. Please read the OP and stay on the topic.

[Neilly]

OHCHR spokesperson Cécile Pouilly told reporters in Geneva. "This would set an important precedent for Thailand."

And be completely against the normal way of doing business here...Thainess

[Cnxforever]

It is refreshing to see yet more world bodies calling Pheu Thai to account over this bill. Thai business need to wake up to the sway of world bodies that is calling them to account over violations and incompetences across all their fields of governance. Thai credibility continues to slide down the dunnie.

you seem to be confused - they are calling the Democrat / army led government to be held accountable - as well as the red shirts who commited human rights violations.

But since the armed forces and certain people are above the law and human rights in this country nothing will ever happen.

This is not the first time this happens this is going on since 1978!

[Roadman]

It is refreshing to see yet more world bodies calling Pheu Thai to account over this bill. Thai business need to wake up to the sway of world bodies that is calling them to account over violations and incompetences across all their fields of governance. Thai credibility continues to slide down the dunnie.

you seem to be confused - they are calling the Democrat / army led government to be held accountable - as well as the red shirts who commited human rights violations.

But since the armed forces and certain people are above the law and human rights in this country nothing will ever happen.

This is not the first time this happens this is going on since 1978!

Rubbish. I am not confused at all. I have no problem with all being held accountable and decided in a court of law. The government at the time are still here in Thailand and prepared to stand in a law court of their peers for judgement. Where the injustice is as world bodies are also eluding to is that not only the Army also needs to be held to account but also those Red shirt who committed criminal offences also held to account, along with the role of the "men in black' or Thaksins paid stoogies. Interesting that the current government stool hopper the DSI has no interest in pursuing this lead as it will lead right to the criminal in Dubai. Hence the rush to get this amnesty in place.

And as for your ridiculous counter garbage of Thailand is different because it operates at an accepted level of corruption and incompetence? Thailand either stands to be seen as democratic in the eyes of the world on the basis of what democracy is or accepts that it is just another failed populist state which with the passing of this sort of garbage it is moving closer too.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Roadman

[gl555]

Abhisit himself said he doesn't want amnesty. It's the coward of Dubai who wants it.

No amnesty for Thaksin then.

Or Abhisit, Suthep and the military directly involved in any massacre: recent or in the past.

[kimamey]

It is refreshing to see yet more world bodies calling Pheu Thai to account over this bill. Thai business need to wake up to the sway of world bodies that is calling them to account over violations and incompetences across all their fields of governance. Thai credibility continues to slide down the dunnie.

you seem to be confused - they are calling the Democrat / army led government to be held accountable - as well as the red shirts who commited human rights violations.

But since the armed forces and certain people are above the law and human rights in this country nothing will ever happen.

This is not the first time this happens this is going on since 1978!

Actually I think you may be confused as well. The OHCHR is calling for state officials and others are held to account for their role in serious human rights abuses. This is because it appears as if the amnesty being sought by the PTP government may prevent those allegedly responsible for human rights abuses from being brought to account. It is the present government who are responsible for this amnesty not the Democrats who in the case of Abhisit and Suthep have expressed their desire to undergo the legal process.

I'm not sure exactly what human rights abuses the OHCHR are referring to. There will obviously be discussion about who is included as 'others' as well.

Your phrase 'Democrat / army led government' is interesting as it isn't entirely clear who was in charge at the time. It used to be that the Democrats were accused of being merely puppets of the military but that has changed now to the military having no responsibility at all as they were only doing what they were ordered to do by the Democrat government. This would appear to be unlikely as the ROE that I've seen didn't authorise shooting protesters in the manner which the courts now seem to be suggesting. It seems as if the current government is avoiding placing any responsibility for the deaths on the military. Whether this makes them puppets of the military is something which needs to be taken into account.

[Cnxforever]

It is refreshing to see yet more world bodies calling Pheu Thai to account over this bill. Thai business need to wake up to the sway of world bodies that is calling them to account over violations and incompetences across all their fields of governance. Thai credibility continues to slide down the dunnie.

you seem to be confused - they are calling the Democrat / army led government to be held accountable - as well as the red shirts who commited human rights violations.

But since the armed forces and certain people are above the law and human rights in this country nothing will ever happen.

This is not the first time this happens this is going on since 1978!

Rubbish. I am not confused at all. I have no problem with all being held accountable and decided in a court of law. The government at the time are still here in Thailand and prepared to stand in a law court of their peers for judgement. Where the injustice is as world bodies are also eluding to is that not only the Army also needs to be held to account but also those Red shirt who committed criminal offences also held to account, along with the role of the "men in black' or Thaksins paid stoogies. Interesting that the current government stool hopper the DSI has no interest in pursuing this lead as it will lead right to the criminal in Dubai. Hence the rush to get this amnesty in place.

And as for your ridiculous counter garbage of Thailand is different because it operates at an accepted level of corruption and incompetence? Thailand either stands to be seen as democratic in the eyes of the world on the basis of what democracy is or accepts that it is just another failed populist state which with the passing of this sort of garbage it is moving closer too.

you don't understand - nobody here cares how you see Thailand - the rich and powerfull rule - that is all they care about. You talk about a court of law?? In Thailand ??? Please do your homework! Who put Thaksin into the PM seat and kept him there even after his fake assets declaration in the first place?

A court of law means nothing in Thailand - they will never stand up to the rich and powerfull - certain people just told the the court of law how to decide! Who was it who had to "swallow his blood" because Thaksin was "needed".???

Armed forces being held accountable in Thailand?? Are you new here? This conflict goes a bit further back than the deadly showdown in BKK - that was just the climax.

[Scott]

Replies to a deleted post have been deleted.

[mikemac]

Perpetrators of abuses during 2010 violence must be held accountable: UN

He's in Dubai. Go and get him.

But since the armed forces and certain people are above the law and human rights in this country nothing will ever happen.

As I said, he's in Dubai.

[kimincm]

I think the UN have had a hand in putting down armed insurgencies before today,that tells me where they are coming from.

[boomerangutang]

Thai politicians only want to hear flattering opinions from outsiders. For that reason, the UN holds little, if any, sway here. If the message is not flattering, then a quick and simple Thaksinesque response is all that's warranted: "The UN is not my father"

Similar to the so-called 'Reconciliation' talks, the PT will stick with the timbre of the Simon & Garfinkle song of the 1960's; "....just hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."

[jcb2001]

Too bad the UN doesn't have any teeth.

[Baerboxer]

Too bad the UN doesn't have any teeth.

Or a track record of success, influence or competence. Most countries ignore the UN whenever it suits them and the ones that don't are usually only interested in aid.

UN peace keepers are a joke - check their track record e.g. Srbenica or Rawanda.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

I think the UN have had a hand in putting down armed insurgencies before today,that tells me where they are coming from.

I don't think they've ever put down an armed insurgency. In fact, they usually screw up basic peace keeping roles.

[northernjohn]

It is refreshing to see yet more world bodies calling Pheu Thai to account over this bill. Thai business need to wake up to the sway of world bodies that is calling them to account over violations and incompetences across all their fields of governance. Thai credibility continues to slide down the dunnie.

you seem to be confused - they are calling the Democrat / army led government to be held accountable - as well as the red shirts who commited human rights violations.

But since the armed forces and certain people are above the law and human rights in this country nothing will ever happen.

This is not the first time this happens this is going on since 1978!

Can you kindly explain how a legally elected Government who had to call the army in to do the work of the police force because they were busy collecting tea money elsewhere can be cited for breaking human rights.

Remember the red shirts made demands that the Government agreed to the red shirts then made a choice to not live up to it. They were armed and shooting rockets at civilians going about there every day legal business on the sky train. They invaded a hospital.

Just what Human rights were they giving to the people they were shooting at and putting out of work. Remember they could have gone home peacefully. What Human Rights did the Government and army break in defending Bangkok from these would be supposedly peaceful well paid thugs?

Be exact. I have been completly honest with you now you be completly honest with me.

Unless you are maintaining they should have been left to do what ever they wanted with no restrictions.

[tominbkk]

The red shirts were the perpetrators. i.e., my signature. Do I have to say more?

[tingtongteesood]

The 'amnesty' is a damned terrible idea, those who committed any crimes should pay their debt to society. This whole affair is basically to get red shirts out of trouble and if this one passes then Taksin amnesty is next on the agenda - DON'T LET IT HAPPEN !

[tingtongteesood]

It is refreshing to see yet more world bodies calling Pheu Thai to account over this bill. Thai business need to wake up to the sway of world bodies that is calling them to account over violations and incompetences across all their fields of governance. Thai credibility continues to slide down the dunnie.

you seem to be confused - they are calling the Democrat / army led government to be held accountable - as well as the red shirts who commited human rights violations.

But since the armed forces and certain people are above the law and human rights in this country nothing will ever happen.

This is not the first time this happens this is going on since 1978!

I think you will find it's you who is confused, unlike Taksin who has BEEN CONVICTED of a crime and chose to run away from his sentence as well as other outstanding cases waiting for his return to make rulings on, Abisit has chosen to stay and face the music DESPITE being branded as a MURDERER. Abisit is encouraging the current government of criminals to try and hold him accountable as he knows he is not guilty of the trumped up charges they are trying to hold against him...

[moradave]

I agree with the UN. Thailand should not grant blanket amnesty. Each political prisoner (red shirt, yellow shirt, or whatever) should be charged with a crime (political protest is not a crime, disobeying a lawful police order is) by the government and arraigned in court. If no criminal charge is brought they should be released immediately. If a charge is brought, they should be ordered to stand trial in a court of law. Reasonable bail, based on the charge, should be set by the judge. Trials should be held as quickly as possible.

This, in my opinion, is the way any civilized country (including Myanmar) should do it.

Edited August 7, 2013 by moradave

[HuaHinHarold]

No amnesty for Thaksin then.

yep,

The UN is not my father.

[HuaHinHarold]

No amnesty for Thaksin then.

Or Abhisit, Suthep and the military directly involved in any massacre: recent or in the past.

Or the police, Red Shirts, etc.

Drop amnesties for all. When you see who is pushing for amnesty the most, then clearly you can see who has the most to gain by amnesty.

[HuaHinHarold]

It is refreshing to see yet more world bodies calling Pheu Thai to account over this bill. Thai business need to wake up to the sway of world bodies that is calling them to account over violations and incompetences across all their fields of governance. Thai credibility continues to slide down the dunnie.

you seem to be confused - they are calling the Democrat / army led government to be held accountable - as well as the red shirts who commited human rights violations.

But since the armed forces and certain people are above the law and human rights in this country nothing will ever happen.

This is not the first time this happens this is going on since 1978!

Rubbish. I am not confused at all. I have no problem with all being held accountable and decided in a court of law. The government at the time are still here in Thailand and prepared to stand in a law court of their peers for judgement. Where the injustice is as world bodies are also eluding to is that not only the Army also needs to be held to account but also those Red shirt who committed criminal offences also held to account, along with the role of the "men in black' or Thaksins paid stoogies. Interesting that the current government stool hopper the DSI has no interest in pursuing this lead as it will lead right to the criminal in Dubai. Hence the rush to get this amnesty in place.

And as for your ridiculous counter garbage of Thailand is different because it operates at an accepted level of corruption and incompetence? Thailand either stands to be seen as democratic in the eyes of the world on the basis of what democracy is or accepts that it is just another failed populist state which with the passing of this sort of garbage it is moving closer too.

Rubbish agreed.

It's not the Democrats or Army continually prodding for amnesty.

As said, who has been insisting on amnesty since the Samak administration?

[GeorgeO]

It is refreshing to see yet more world bodies calling Pheu Thai to account over this bill. Thai business need to wake up to the sway of world bodies that is calling them to account over violations and incompetences across all their fields of governance. Thai credibility continues to slide down the dunnie.

And let's not forget that we still have Moody's scrutinizing Thailand very closely.

I can envisage a severe reduction in the country's credit rating if this government doesn't a step back and a long, hard look at what they are doing to the country. Such a reduction will lead to the rapid withdrawal of foreign investment, inflation and CPI up, and more THB for my GBP....!

On second thoughts ... maybe we should just let them get on with their wanton destruction of the economy..!