Court ruling not good news for Thai Democrat leaders

[philw]

"......................This is a 95% Buddhist country. If soldiers just took it upon themselves to camp in front of a temple full of women and children, with police filming it, then indiscriminately fire shots at people inside killing 6 including medical personnel want their heads examined..................."

Quote from klubex99, #28.

You are of course right, they do indeed need their "heads examined" because that is more or less exactly what they did.

Not only do the soldiers and officers concerned need their "heads examined" , in my opinion they, and their officers, need to be brought to justice in a civilian court and tried for murder.

The old "He must be a homicidal maniac because he wears a green uniform" argument.

Sorry Mick, it isn't.

Try and think again.

[gerry1011]

Not a good news for the democrats for sure.

Their lies are exposed. I am quite happy about it.

On top of that the turnout at their "rally" was very low. Another good news.

Most people are getting bored with the yellows and the Dems' complete non sense.

[backtonormal]

Not really anything to do with Thaksin, is it ???

Only a halfwit would make a comment like that, especially when you are talking about the mayhem in Bangkok in 2010 that Thaksin arranged, organized, orchestrated and financed.

Every rotten thing that happened in Bangkok during those terrorist operations, every life that was lost, every building that burned, every hospital that was held to ransom, had everything to do with that evil criminal.

Another example, albeit a crass and singularly unreflective one, of a usual suspect seeking to divert attention from the army's murder of unarmed civilians in Wat Pathum where some of the victims had no political affiliation at all.Even accepting hypothetically the Thaksin is the root of all evil propaganda line, it is quite irrelevant to this particular piece of army criminality and the responsibility of Abhisit's government that presided over it.

You paint such an accurate picture of such events... You were obviously there, or members of your family who never lie were there.

What was it like in the temple that day?

Did soldiers just walk in like Rambo and mo people down that had nothing to do with the RIOTS??

Of course not a single person shot guns at the soldiers did they???

In any country in the world, even in first world countries... you shoot at soldiers and they shoot back... it's called 'rules of engagement'.

Maybe you think that Thailand is different. Many soldiers already handed over their weapons to reds, so as far as anyone was concerned, they were armed to the teeth.

Please explain what happened that day..... Maybe this certain batch of soldiers were instructed to walk into temples and open fire on as many innocent people as possible. Yeah.... that is what happened, they were ordered to do it, even if not provoked.

Man..... your version of events is a product of having your Thai family so far up Thaksin's ares, it is untrue.

Well, please spare us.... we are educated in this forum. Save it for the karaoke bar.

I have just soiled my pants..cant stop laughing. The anti Thaksin mob keep quoting the MIBs with an arsenal of weapons. Yet when you ask them how many soldiers were shot and killed or wounded by the other side what can they reply. A big fat zero. Now if they were like the army and dispense 120,000 rounds of Ammo into the soldiers sods law says they would hit quite a few. But hey none hit. Please stoprepeating this proganda.

Please dont make me soil my pants again with utter nonsense or I will send my pants around for you to launder

[kimamey]

The court says there were no armed reds in the temple, fair enough, but it does not appear to say there were no men in black in a position to shoot into the temple.

At the time and since there have been photos and videos of men in black who were in a position to fire the shots that killed those in the temple.

There was an account some time back from an officer that said he and his men chased men in black away from a position where they could have shot into the temple, this was accompanied by a photo.

Sometimes the usual suspects are beyond parody.This fellow appears to be suggesting the MIB (the court having concluded there was no evidence of them) fired on unarmed civilians in the temple.

Pointless to discuss with this level of inanity.

"The court concluded" or "the court was presented with" ?

The court's decision is predicated by the evidence presented to it by the DSI, who, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary, have never acknowledged ANY MIB, at least under this government.

I don't know about the independence of the criminal court but the DSI has said itself that it makes judgements based on government pressure so their lack of independence is certain.

[backtonormal]

Read all about it

http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRNM05UYzRORFF6TWc9PQ==&sectionid=TURVd01BPT0=

Lol.... more crap from the courts.

Has anyone with any intelligence sucked this up?

This is a 95% Buddhist country. If soldiers just took it upon themselves to camp in front of a temple full of women and children, with police filming it, then indiscriminately fire shots at people inside killing 6 including medical personnel want their heads examined.

It would be like soldiers in the UK firing into a primary school full of kids and mothers and hoping to get away with it. It is stupidity beyond imagination.

If such a calous act had taken place without any provocation, would the soldiers not have been rounded up immediately after knowing how horrendous this would be perceived?

Come on...

Let's get real. No..... The courts are not real, the courts read out decisions that they have been told/paid to.

TIT... never forget that.

Not stupidity just the hate and loathing the paymasters have for the poor in Thailand. I dont think Abhisit gave the shoot to kill orders but the poor smuck will carry the can.

[MobileContent]

The finding has put the Democrat Party's Abhisit Vejjajiva and Suthep Thaugsuban, who were then prime minister and deputy prime minister in a difficult position.

So if this the case, than, Is former PM Thaksin guilty of the killings of thousands during the crack down on drugs, and the killing of hundreds of Muslim people in 2004?

What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

Thaksin is another story. Now its time to focus first on Abhisit and Suthep. After all the democrats had enough time to go after Thaksin during their time in office.

[OzMick]

"......................This is a 95% Buddhist country. If soldiers just took it upon themselves to camp in front of a temple full of women and children, with police filming it, then indiscriminately fire shots at people inside killing 6 including medical personnel want their heads examined..................."

Quote from klubex99, #28.

You are of course right, they do indeed need their "heads examined" because that is more or less exactly what they did.

Not only do the soldiers and officers concerned need their "heads examined" , in my opinion they, and their officers, need to be brought to justice in a civilian court and tried for murder.

The old "He must be a homicidal maniac because he wears a green uniform" argument.

Sorry Mick, it isn't.

Try and think again.

Actually it is. Can you give me one reason why a soldier or soldiers would ignore ROE and shoot unarmed people in a wat other than some form of insanity or kill lust? 6 people shot is hardly an accidental or unauthorised discharge, it is an intentional act based on a conscious decision.

In any crime where there is disputed evidence, there has to be consideration of motive. Who benefited from this?

[kimamey]

Not really anything to do with Thaksin, is it ???

Only a halfwit would make a comment like that, especially when you are talking about the mayhem in Bangkok in 2010 that Thaksin arranged, organized, orchestrated and financed.

Every rotten thing that happened in Bangkok during those terrorist operations, every life that was lost, every building that burned, every hospital that was held to ransom, had everything to do with that evil criminal.

Another example, albeit a crass and singularly unreflective one, of a usual suspect seeking to divert attention from the army's murder of unarmed civilians in Wat Pathum where some of the victims had no political affiliation at all.Even accepting hypothetically the Thaksin is the root of all evil propaganda line, it is quite irrelevant to this particular piece of army criminality and the responsibility of Abhisit's government that presided over it.

If we assume for a moment that any action taken against Abhisit and Suthep will be fair and just and if it isn't then there's no way of predicting the outcome then there shouldn't be too much of a problem for either of them.

This verdict seems to suggest that the actions taken by the military were outside of the ROE under which the army was operating. This would take the blame away from Abhisit and Suthep and place it firmly on the soldiers who fired the shots and any of those in charge who either ordered or didn't stop their actions.

This will require the government who have stated that they are against double standards to take action against the military. It would be good for their approval rating if the meeting at the Defence Ministry where this is brought up by the Minister of Defence could be televised.

Robert Amsterdam has suggested that the ROE were against the rules laid down by the UN. I'm no legal expert but it does seem that the ROE were treading a fine line with the rules that the UN applies to law enforcement agencies. These apply also to the military if they are taking the place of the police ect. It certainly looks as if the army were doing the job of the police to start with but I'm not so certain that was the case later on when these deaths occurred. Not surprisingly Mr Amsterdam being a lawyer only points out that which supports his theory.

See I haven't mentioned Thaksin once.......Oh bugger.

[MobileContent]

Well we all knew that this news was going to be published before the debate on the amnesty bill. The court is totally controlled by Thaksin, and this is an extra bargaining chip to get support from 'the other side'.

Or is it merely a pure coincidence, even though myself and my wife were talking only last week that the PTP would need that extra bit of leverage.

Naaaa.... It's a coincidence innit?

This is how Thai politics have been working for such a long time. Why do you think in coups not one of the generals ever went to jail? Remember Thanon or Suchinda?

This is just the way things work in Thailand.

Get used to it

[MrSlatersParrot]

Read all about it

http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRNM05UYzRORFF6TWc9PQ==&sectionid=TURVd01BPT0=

Lol.... more crap from the courts.

Has anyone with any intelligence sucked this up?

This is a 95% Buddhist country. If soldiers just took it upon themselves to camp in front of a temple full of women and children, with police filming it, then indiscriminately fire shots at people inside killing 6 including medical personnel want their heads examined.

It would be like soldiers in the UK firing into a primary school full of kids and mothers and hoping to get away with it. It is stupidity beyond imagination.

If such a calous act had taken place without any provocation, would the soldiers not have been rounded up immediately after knowing how horrendous this would be perceived?

Come on...

Let's get real. No..... The courts are not real, the courts read out decisions that they have been told/paid to.

TIT... never forget that.

That is exactly what happened.

Shortly after Kao Sod journalists went onto the track and published photos of spent cartridges and empty water bottles.

The army acted how they liked as they believed they had impunity because of the ISA.

They denied it then and they still deny it.

The soldiers acted like an asassination squad.

The temple boy did a moon at them and enraged they shot at all and sundry.

[philw]

"......................This is a 95% Buddhist country. If soldiers just took it upon themselves to camp in front of a temple full of women and children, with police filming it, then indiscriminately fire shots at people inside killing 6 including medical personnel want their heads examined..................."

Quote from klubex99, #28.

You are of course right, they do indeed need their "heads examined" because that is more or less exactly what they did.

Not only do the soldiers and officers concerned need their "heads examined" , in my opinion they, and their officers, need to be brought to justice in a civilian court and tried for murder.

The old "He must be a homicidal maniac because he wears a green uniform" argument.

Sorry Mick, it isn't.

Try and think again.

Actually it is. Can you give me one reason why a soldier or soldiers would ignore ROE and shoot unarmed people in a wat other than some form of insanity or kill lust? 6 people shot is hardly an accidental or unauthorised discharge, it is an intentional act based on a conscious decision.

In any crime where there is disputed evidence, there has to be consideration of motive. Who benefited from this?

Your 2nd sentence probably hits the nail.....

"........6 people shot is hardly an accidental or unauthorised discharge, it is an intentional act based on a conscious decision............"

I, and clearly the court, agree with you.

It was undoubtedly, an intentional and conscious act by the troops involved to fire on unarmed medics, attending to wounded in the temple grounds.

This is despicable and shocking.

These soldiers really should be brought to court and tried for murder.

[OzMick]

That is exactly what happened.

Shortly after Kao Sod journalists went onto the track and published photos of spent cartridges and empty water bottles.

The army acted how they liked as they believed they had impunity because of the ISA.

They denied it then and they still deny it.

The soldiers acted like an asassination squad.

The temple boy did a moon at them and enraged they shot at all and sundry.

"Shortly after Kao Sod journalists went onto the track and published photos of spent cartridges and empty water bottles."

Which proves that a rifles(s) was fired and somebody had a drink, without giving evidence as to whom. OTOH did not one of the items have fingerprints that could prove the soldiers accused were in possession of those items?

BTW military water bottles are part of a soldier's kit. They are not discarded when empty.

[monkeycountry]

Assuming the soldiers did in fact unlawfully kill the protesters as the court claims, can someone please explain how on earth this has any impact on Mr. Abhisit's case? Unless Abhisit actually gave orders to unlawfully kill protesters, then how can he be responsible for rogue actions by soldiers? If he did indeed give orders to unlawfully kill protesters, then it should not matter if the soldiers followed those orders or not, Abhisit should still be found guilty for issuing the orders.

I think neither the red shirt supporters on TV nor the UDD leaders and PTP MP's believe Abhisit gave orders to kill innocent people and that they know deep down he will eventually be cleared in court. However, in the meantime accusing him of murder works well to agitate the red shirts, keep their votes and put pressure on the opposition.

[OzMick]

Actually it is. Can you give me one reason why a soldier or soldiers would ignore ROE and shoot unarmed people in a wat other than some form of insanity or kill lust? 6 people shot is hardly an accidental or unauthorised discharge, it is an intentional act based on a conscious decision.

In any crime where there is disputed evidence, there has to be consideration of motive. Who benefited from this?

Your 2nd sentence probably hits the nail.....

"........6 people shot is hardly an accidental or unauthorised discharge, it is an intentional act based on a conscious decision............"

I, and clearly the court, agree with you.

It was undoubtedly, an intentional and conscious act by the troops involved to fire on unarmed medics, attending to wounded in the temple grounds.

This is despicable and shocking.

These soldiers really should be brought to court and tried for murder.

You haven't followed the thread have you? The court made a decision based on the evidence presented by the morally malleable DSI.

And again, you leap straight to mental disability to explain this, disregarding any question of motive.

[philw]

I thought soldiers obeyed instructions and didn't need motives..............

Orders and all that.

[Thai at Heart]

If the inquest has sufficient proof to show that the people were killed by the soldiers, then we must assume that the bullets found in the victims have been forensically matched to weapons which are currently (and always have been) in the possession of these military units.

Without such clear evidence, it is difficult to understand how the criminal court can have drawn such a conclusion in this matter; however, there is no mention of such forensic evidence, despite its critical impact on this case.

So which is it, a conclusion drawn on the basis of forensic evidence, or one that conveniently helps to cast a cloud over those opposing the red shirts and the current government...?

Have you ever seen a policeman actually produce a radar gun. Proof in Thailand is not often beyond circumstantial. And when it's as clear as day, it then becomes murky just as rapidly.

[kimamey]

I thought soldiers obeyed instructions and didn't need motives..............

Orders and all that.

The thing is who gave the instructions they were obeying? It doesn't seem they were following their ROE.

[OzMick]

I thought soldiers obeyed instructions and didn't need motives..............

Orders and all that.

Cheap cop out. Officers would require even more motive than a squaddie, who would well be within his rights to refuse such an order and/or report it immediately to his superiors.

[siampolee]

One could of course argue that the rioters who engaged in systematic looting at assorted venues and progressed on to arson and other general breaches of the peace and disruption of daily life for many and were under the command of their sponsor and his acolytes Thaksin, Arisman, Jutuporn and collection the tired old political hacks and dinosaurs aunty Thida, Weng etc to name but a few are of course guilty of the same criminal acts that Abishit and Suthep are being indicted for ?

Therefore according to the rules of law one must ask why the aforementioned leaders of the last outbreak of civil unrest have not been pursued through the Salem Witch trials that pass as the current judicial process here? .

Surely the courts are not biased are they ?

.

[mikemac]

Anyone who believes Abhisit ordered the soldiers to fire upon unarmed members of the public is a loony bird, or a cold-blooded Thaksin supporter.

[philw]

It happened Mick, accept it.

That the soldiers shot the medics is indisputable.

( Although no doubt you will continue to parade a perverse contrary argument that it was MIB or aliens or wayward kittens or something. )

Don't expect a further response from me, to you on this subject.

[bigbamboo]

Well at least it proves the courts are even handed. They are saying Abhisit is guilty just as they said Thaksin was.

That means jail for Mr A AND Mr T.

Edited August 8, 2013 by bigbamboo

[Robby nz]

ayjboy

Robby nz, on 08 Aug 2013 - 16:47, said:

The court says there were no armed reds in the temple, fair enough, but it does not appear to say there were no men in black in a position to shoot into the temple.

At the time and since there have been photos and videos of men in black who were in a position to fire the shots that killed those in the temple.

There was an account some time back from an officer that said he and his men chased men in black away from a position where they could have shot into the temple, this was accompanied by a photo.

Sometimes the usual suspects are beyond parody.This fellow appears to be suggesting the MIB (the court having concluded there was no evidence of them) fired on unarmed civilians in the temple.

Pointless to discuss with this level of inanity.

I see you are back to your usual insulting best jayboy .

While making no effort to read my post fully you have come a silly conclusion.

I am simply pointing out that from what I read and saw in news stories that there were men in black in a position where they could have fired into the temple.

The court appears to have concentrated on ascertaining that there was no one shooting from inside the temple at the army by testing the hands of those killed for powder.

And that there appears to have been no effort to trace the actual firearms which fired the shots.

But keep up the good work your red mates will be proud of you

[OzMick]

It happened Mick, accept it.

That the soldiers shot the medics is indisputable.

( Although no doubt you will continue to parade a perverse contrary argument that it was MIB or aliens or wayward kittens or something. )

Don't expect a further response from me, to you on this subject.

Should I also have accepted the label of "baby killer" because I happened to be in the Australian Army during the Viet Nam war, even though I never served overseas?

During 2 years service, I never met a homicidal maniac, or a thrill killer, but apparently they are common in the RTA, or so you would have me believe.

[Emptyset]

One could of course argue that the rioters who engaged in systematic looting at assorted venues and progressed on to arson and other general breaches of the peace and disruption of daily life for many and were under the command of their sponsor and his acolytes Thaksin, Arisman, Jutuporn and collection the tired old political hacks and dinosaurs aunty Thida, Weng etc to name but a few are of course guilty of the same criminal acts that Abishit and Suthep are being indicted for ?

Therefore according to the rules of law one must ask why the aforementioned leaders of the last outbreak of civil unrest have not been pursued through the Salem Witch trials that pass as the current judicial process here? .

Surely the courts are not biased are they ?

.

The red shirt leaders have already been charged for the unrest and are being pursued through the judicial process. But like Abhisit and Suthep, most of them have parliamentary immunity so the cases can only go ahead during parliamentary recess. It's a very slow process anyway. The cases against red shirt leaders and yellow shirt leaders from 2007/8 have barely progressed during that time. I doubt Abhisit and Suthep face any serious prospect of jail during the next 5+ years. I think it's probably fair to say that cases are given priority under different governments though. Under the last Democrat government, I believe Tharit was releasing details of cases where there was evidence that the men in black were involved/guilty and the ones where the DSI had good evidence that soldiers were responsible weren't mentioned. Cases that were unfavourable to the Democrat government were clearly being put on the backburner, and I'm sure it's no different under this one.

Despite the bias of the government and the DSI head, we know from the leaked DSI documents that the cases were investigated impartially. And there's nothing in the investigation that suggests the court made a biased decision here; it appears they went with the evidence they have and if anyone can find any actual evidence, rather than spurious inference and fantasy, that contradicts the decision, I'm sure many people would be interested in seeing it. Here's that DSI document again: http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/watpathum2.pdf - again, I'd be interested if I've missed something in there that calls the court decision into question.

[Emptyset]

Sometimes the usual suspects are beyond parody.This fellow appears to be suggesting the MIB (the court having concluded there was no evidence of them) fired on unarmed civilians in the temple.

Pointless to discuss with this level of inanity.

"The court concluded" or "the court was presented with" ?

The court's decision is predicated by the evidence presented to it by the DSI, who, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary, have never acknowledged ANY MIB, at least under this government.

Yet it states in the OP "In previous cases when courts found security forces to be responsible, there were gunfights with armed militants in the area. However, in the latest case, there was no evidence that armed militants were involved." Which surely indicates the DSI have in fact presented the court with evidence of armed militants in previous cases. Besides which the case was investigated under the Democrat government.

[visionchaser45]

It is a good thing that they are opposed to the amnesty bill.

[ballpoint]

"Throughout the afternoon and evening of May 19, sporadic gunfire and clashes took place in the immediate vicinity of the temple. Several foreign journalists said they saw UDD militants, some of them armed, on the street outside the temple between 2 and 4 p.m. that day".

"At least two separate gunfights took place around Wat Pathum Wanaram, one starting around 4 p.m. and a second, more intense exchange of gunfire that began around 5:30 or 6 p.m."

http://www.hrw.org/node/98399/section/8

[Emptyset]

Read all about it

http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRNM05UYzRORFF6TWc9PQ==&sectionid=TURVd01BPT0=

Lol.... more crap from the courts.

Has anyone with any intelligence sucked this up?

This is a 95% Buddhist country. If soldiers just took it upon themselves to camp in front of a temple full of women and children, with police filming it, then indiscriminately fire shots at people inside killing 6 including medical personnel want their heads examined.

It would be like soldiers in the UK firing into a primary school full of kids and mothers and hoping to get away with it. It is stupidity beyond imagination.

If such a calous act had taken place without any provocation, would the soldiers not have been rounded up immediately after knowing how horrendous this would be perceived?

Come on...

Let's get real. No..... The courts are not real, the courts read out decisions that they have been told/paid to.

TIT... never forget that.

More strange reasoning. So because Thailand is 95% Buddhist, the soldiers would be incapable of such actions? Presumably your logic is that Buddhism is a religion of peace and inculcates an ethics which renders Buddhist incapable of violent, murderous behaviour? There are several objections one could raise to this. You'd think regular reading of the daily newspaper would dispel people of the notion that there's anything particularly special about Thai Buddhism that prevents horrific acts of cruelty and violence (one might think the opposite, in fact).

And that's without mentioning the many human rights abuses and massacres that the Thai military has previously been involved in. Read about the Thammasat massacre in 1976 - how were Buddhists capable of that? Why weren't they rounded up for the brutal slaughter of unarmed students (instead of cheered on by onlookers)? I think the picture of the guy strung from a tree being beaten by someone with a chair - as featured on the Dead Kennedy's Holiday in Cambodia release, but it's from the 76 Thai massacre, not from Cambodia - tells us all we need to know about the special nature of Thai Buddhism. Which is to say, it's no different from any other religion. I've actually got a lot of time for Theravada Buddhism, but there's a darker side to it. High level monks in the past have used Buddhist notions to justify massacres, whether it be of purported communists, or of suspected drug dealers.

We all know that Christians, Muslims, Atheists etc are capable of terrible crimes and I'm sure you wouldn't have made the same argument if we were talking about a Christian country (or perhaps you would, in which case, who is commiting all these crimes? Atheists?). I wish people would stop suggesting there were something exeptional about Buddhism which makes its followers morally superior to followers of other religions. There isn't.

[Emptyset]

"Throughout the afternoon and evening of May 19, sporadic gunfire and clashes took place in the immediate vicinity of the temple. Several foreign journalists said they saw UDD militants, some of them armed, on the street outside the temple between 2 and 4 p.m. that day".

"At least two separate gunfights took place around Wat Pathum Wanaram, one starting around 4 p.m. and a second, more intense exchange of gunfire that began around 5:30 or 6 p.m."

http://www.hrw.org/node/98399/section/8

Thanks for reposting that. Interesting stuff. It seems to suggest that soldiers from Paragon were firing at the other soldiers on the Skytrain tracks:

"Human Rights Watch found dozens of assault rifle impact rounds fired into the elevated Siam BTS station at a straight angle. Those rounds appeared to be fired from the platform farthest from Wat Pathum Wanaram, near the entrance of the Siam Paragon center, towards the platform closest to Wat Pathum Wanaram. On Rama I Road in front of Wat Pathum Wanaram, impact rounds were found low on the concrete pillars of the BTS skytrain track, indicating that they had been fired by persons approaching from the Siam Paragon direction—that is, by soldiers—towards Wat Pathum Wanaram at persons located in front of the temple. However, the DSI and army disputed this analysis during a hearing at the government-appointed Independent Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Thailand (ITRCT) on March 29, 2011 with their ballistic trajectory analysis showing that the rounds at the Siam BTS station were fired at an upward angle from the street level by persons at Chalermphao junction and in front of Wat Pathum Wanaram who the authorities say were Black Shirts."

Perhaps there were militants there earlier in the day, but why did the soldiers continue firing on into the night? Had they confused kids with rocks with militants with guns? Or were the militants somewhere adjacent to the temple but not inside or in the entrance? Even so, this report is still unequivocal in suggesting soldiers on the tracks behaved with scant regard for human life:

"Although at least two armed Black Shirts were seen fighting with soldiers at the Chalerm Phao junction in front of Wat Pathum Wanaram on May 19 afternoon, none of the journalists, medics, monks, or ordinary citizens whom Human Rights Watch interviewed described seeing any armed men inside the Wat Pathum Wanaram compound. Some said they saw armed men discarding their weapons and changing their clothing before entering the temple, or “tough-looking” young men inside the temple. No witnesses or media accounts of the Wat Pathum Wanaram events mentioned gunfire originating from inside the temple or its compound. It would have been difficult to hide such outgoing gunfire or weapons from the substantial press corps that was present inside the temple throughout the night. There are also no impact rounds on the BTS tracks or elsewhere outside the temple to suggest outgoing gunfire.

The firing of live ammunition continued for up to an hour, with army-fired shots repeatedly striking the temple compound. Many witnesses interviewed described heavy and sustained gunfire over a long period. This is supported by the chronology of those suffering gunshot wounds. Andrew Buncombe, the wounded journalist, was treated by Nurse Kate before she herself was mortally wounded. Then the wounded nurse was assisted by Akkharadej Khankaew before he himself was shot dead. This could not have occurred if the shooting into the temple had not occurred over an extended period."