Aussies a drain on Phuket hospitals

[webfact]

AUSSIES A DRAIN ON PHUKET HOSPITALS
Ron Corben, AAP

PHUKET: -- Australian visitors - mostly males in their 30s and without health insurance -- are posing an increasing drain on public hospitals budgets on the Thai resort island of Phuket.

The island has become increasingly popular with not only tourists, but also retirees and long-term foreign residents lured by the lower cost of living.

But the Thai public hospital system is facing an increasing financial burden from the high expense of caring for ill, cash-strapped foreign visitors.

Dr Nara Kingkaew, deputy director of Vachira Public Hospital in Phuket, says Australians are among the leading foreign patients who seek medical care at public hospitals because they don't have insurance.

"It's a lot of problem because it's a great burden for us to look after the foreigners, especially the Westerners who come to Thailand without any health insurance and then they fall sick or are met with an accident," Dr Nara told AAP.

There are about 30,000 Australians on Phuket in any given month out of a total of about 900,000 Australian visitors to Thailand each year.

Other nationals include Russians, British and Germans.

Dr Nara noted an Australian man who fell from a Patong Beach Hotel spent several months in hospital recuperating from his injuries, including broken legs and hips, before being discharged. He was unable to pay the cost of his hospital stay, which amounted to about $A10,000.

Full story: http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/18419008/aussies-a-drain-on-phuket-hospitals/

-- YAHOO!7NEWS 2013-08-08

[White Christmas13]

You guys just beat me to it by a few minutes

so I guess no need to insert the sources

[Old Croc]

I guess Aussies are singled out in the article because it's from an Australian news source.

[Old Croc]

Interesting to see the sky diver walked (or more likely wheeled) out of hospital. Luckiest guy alive. He now needs to do everything he can to pay his bills!

Edited August 8, 2013 by Old Croc

[dudu]

I Guess thats why they want 800K in a bank account for retirement visa, something happens to you without insurance, at least some costs are covered, i could be wrong...

[JoePai]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

[LivinginKata]

I Guess thats why they want 800K in a bank account for retirement visa, something happens to you without insurance, at least some costs are covered, i could be wrong...

That's a bit far fetched. Once the retirement visa is issued then the bank account can be drained immediately.

[NamKangMan]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

Edited August 8, 2013 by NamKangMan

[Bung]

Possibly because Australians enjoy a good free health care system at home they don't think about insurance.

It's also possible that they are a bunch of knuckleheads that end up hurting themselves all the time as well.....

[harrry]

Recently Western Ausstralian health reported that each year foreign visitors cost them 4 Million dollars a year in unpaid hospital bills. THey said they were not worried as undoubtedly the tourists bought income into Australia with their spending. THey said the only worry would be if people seemed to be using Australia for health tourism and that was not the case.

They have to think where a large part of the islands revenue comes and it is from those Australian tourists.

[Jimi007]

I guess TAT should stop promoting Phuket as a tourists resort. Oh that's right, they already have according to a recent article. And maybe TAT should contribute some of their ridiculously high budget per year to the public hospitals to take care of the record number of tourists here... Yeah, right...

[dudu]

I Guess thats why they want 800K in a bank account for retirement visa, something happens to you without insurance, at least some costs are covered, i could be wrong...

That's a bit far fetched. Once the retirement visa is issued then the bank account can be drained immediately.

Don't know, i recall in Nong khai, a farang guest house owner mentioned that the 800k is security in case something happened, you wouldn't be a burden on the Thais, sounded logical, still does, but being able to take it out,puts a hole in the story.

[Zpete]

Interesting to see the sky diver walked (or more likely wheeled) out of hospital. Luckiest guy alive. He now needs to do everything he can to pay his bills!

And wallabies will grow wings.

Some hope.

In NZ everybody from anywhere is covered ny 'no fault' accident insurance.

[andreandre]

Recently Western Ausstralian health reported that each year foreign visitors cost them 4 Million dollars a year in unpaid hospital bills. THey said they were not worried as undoubtedly the tourists bought income into Australia with their spending. THey said the only worry would be if people seemed to be using Australia for health tourism and that was not the case.

They have to think where a large part of the islands revenue comes and it is from those Australian tourists.

THey said they were not worried as undoubtedly the tourists bought income into Australia with their spending.

Only problem with that is that it makes sense.....If it makes sense in LOS it cant/wont be done...

[tolsti]

I have a bill owing to a Thai private hospital for emergency treatment that saved my life. It was in the region of 1.4 million Baht when I left the hospital to transfer to a local hospital which covered me under the Thai social system as I work and pay tax here. Every month 50K from my salary goes to the hospital having been guaranteed by my employer. This leaves me with a very tight budget to live on BUT there is no way I could consider not paying this back.

Maybe the leading tourist nations could each pay an amount each year into the Thai system (accessible by Private and Govt Hospitals) and with the full details of each of their citizens (that don't have full travel insurance) being recorded at each admission simply add the cost onto their future tax bills?

Admittedly there way be certain elements that might profit from this locally however the threat of tax impositions may well encourage people to arrange insurance cover prior to travelling which then benefits that govt through taxes on the companies doing normal business.

[Suradit69]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

So these expats pay money to the government for medical coverage? Sounds like insurance. And of course for every baht 1000 they pay, they'll want Baht 5000 or more in medical service or whine endlessly about being exploited.

Those of us who do pay for our medical services will end up paying more to make up for the losses caused by those unable or unwilling to pay and the more who get away without paying, the more will play at being indigent.

If someone is unable to pay for treatment, he's unlikely to be spending all that much that the economy will lose by his departure. Better he return home and let his government take care of him,

.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Suradit69

[chooka]

Possibly because Australians enjoy a good free health care system at home they don't think about insurance.

It's also possible that they are a bunch of knuckleheads that end up hurting themselves all the time as well.....

They may have to start taking insurance because the aussie government is cutting back it services and help to aussies abroad.

Foreign minister Bob Carr will announce a "refinement" of the consular assistance available to Australians in trouble overseas, in a move designed to lower expectations of the help the government can provide.

In a debate at the Lowy Institute on Wednesday with the opposition's shadow foreign minister Julie Bishop, Senator Carr said "too much diplomatic time is being taken up looking after Australians who in many cases should be looking after after their own safety and wellbeing".

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/australians-in-trouble-abroad-need-to-lower-expectations-of-government-help-bob-carr-20130807-2rgus.html#ixzz2bO92m7Iw

[Sirius1935]

On a visit to the U.K. A few gears ago my Thai girlfriend needed hospital treatment. There was " no charge for foreign visitors" . Last week in Bangkok I had a day and a night in a regular hospital for a small problem which cost me 58,500 Baht. Not complaining, it was great service and I am very happy but hardly a reciprocal arrangement.

[DogNo1]

Wow! 58,500 seems like a lot for one day and night in a hospital. That's nearly $2,000 US.

[NamKangMan]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

So these expats pay money to the government for medical coverage? Sounds like insurance. And of course for every baht 1000 they pay, they'll want Baht 5000 or more in medical service or whine endlessly about being exploited.

Those of us who do pay for our medical services will end up paying more to make up for the losses caused by those unable or unwilling to pay and the more who get away without paying, the more will play at being indigent.

If someone is unable to pay for treatment, he's unlikely to be spending all that much that the economy will lose by his departure. Better he return home and let his government take care of him,

.

Yes, it does sound like insurance - it's insuring the Thai Government against loss from uninsured expats who need major medical attention, possibly for a prolonged period of time. It's basically the Thai Government self insuring.

In relation to the scheme running to a loss, that's easy fixed, adjust the fee/levy for the next year, just the way insurance companies, and reinsurance companies, raise premiums the next year. On that basis, it really can't lose.

Those who have insurance, that's myself included, do not pay more, because these expats are under a Thai Governmnet scheme, not a private insurance company policy.

I would also suggest, the Thai Government put an "excess" of, say, 50,000 baht to 100,000 baht. So, minor treatment must still be paid for by the elderly expat, which will not cause them financial ruin, but for something major, like a serious heart attack requiring an operation, the Thai Government scheme pays the bill.

For a small yearly fee/levy attached to their visa, the older and uninsured expat is guaranteed any major illness or injury will be covered and the Thai Government has the money to ensure hospitals are paided for their services.

It's bassically a collective user pays health insurance system, administered by the Thai Government.

It was just an idea off the top of my head, but something similar would be worth looking into.

[IrishIvan]

I will hazard a guess and say that most of these hospital visits from Aussies are a result of vehicle accidents. Why not have compulsory hospital insurance on vehicles/motorbikes/cars?

Secondly the Aussies could try ringing isaarn and let future the in laws know that they are in hospitan and need baht quickly

[Chupup]

Always assuming that the government in question were competent to run such a scheme without losing the payments somewhere along the way and that certainly leaves this government out.

[Thai at Heart]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

So these expats pay money to the government for medical coverage? Sounds like insurance. And of course for every baht 1000 they pay, they'll want Baht 5000 or more in medical service or whine endlessly about being exploited.

Those of us who do pay for our medical services will end up paying more to make up for the losses caused by those unable or unwilling to pay and the more who get away without paying, the more will play at being indigent.

If someone is unable to pay for treatment, he's unlikely to be spending all that much that the economy will lose by his departure. Better he return home and let his government take care of him,

.

But they only levy 100 baht per month on Burmese labour for insurance. Why can't they set it up for a retiree to pay 500?

Is it miraculously cheaper to treat different nations of people? Ah, of course, farangs like to go private, so if they have to but insurance it's good business for private hospitals.

This has nothing to do with insurance this is about business to gouge farangs.

[stevenl]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

The system you're describing is called insurance. And because private insurance companies don't want this risk, in other words, it will cost them more than it bring them, the Thai government should bear this risk, in other words it will cost them more than it brings them.

I'm sorry, but if you want to stay here as a foreigner you have to be self reliant, and not rely on the Thai government. Can't do that, go home and let your own government take care of you.

[oxo1947]

"It's just not fair. I mean the retirees are blocking up the hospital," Mr Cunningham told AAP."

Its possible because of the draconian laws in Australia---Mr Cunnningham--- when leaving Oz to retire in somewhere like Thailand, if pensioner age--you are striped of your rights for free medical care in Australia, Unlike the UK & other countries where there citizens routinely return home for the medical treatment that they have paid in for all their working life----An Australian government health care card is stopped after being away form the country more then 13 weeks---even though he may have been working & contributing there for more then 50 years. Now on returning he must make a stat declaration that he is back in the country to stay----& you can not do that to many times.

And by the sound of that last statement from Bob Carr---the situation for Australians abroad will get worse.

[hanno]

And there I was thinking that Aussies would be a drain on the local bars.....

[Ace of Pop]

I Guess thats why they want 800K in a bank account for retirement visa, something happens to you without insurance, at least some costs are covered, i could be wrong...

That's a bit far fetched. Once the retirement visa is issued then the bank account can be drained immediately.

Wonder no ones noticed the Goverment sets a minimum wage,for a Thai Family to live on,but a Single Retired ferang needs 800K.That should be the Minimum wage here then.

[evadgib]

It might help if costs were assessed on nature of injury rather than ethnicity of patient.

[harrycallahan]

Do we have the numbers for the medical costs incurred by Thais in Australia? We don't refuse treatment because the patient doesn't have money.

[NamKangMan]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

The system you're describing is called insurance. And because private insurance companies don't want this risk, in other words, it will cost them more than it bring them, the Thai government should bear this risk, in other words it will cost them more than it brings them.

I'm sorry, but if you want to stay here as a foreigner you have to be self reliant, and not rely on the Thai government. Can't do that, go home and let your own government take care of you.

It was just an idea, off the top of my head. Read my other post - yes, it is insurance, but it's the Thai Government self insuring, on that basis, it can't lose.

There are many insurance companies and they may get a "few" customers. The customers are spread over the different companies, because they have choice.

This is a compulsory scheme. That means EVERY elderly expat who the insurance companies refuse to insure, due to age or pre-existing conditions, are forced into the scheme via visa qualification. That's millions of uninsured expats, all paying the compulsory fee/levy. Now, not all of them will have a heart attack that year, for example, but all of them have paid. A small "excess" of say, 50,000 baht would still ensure minor injuries or illnesses are still paid for by these uninsured expats.

As mentioned, if the Thai Governemnt had a bad year and lost a little, they raise the fee/levy for the next year, just like an insurance company rises premiums. This is why the scheme can not lose. The loss only has to be carried by the Thai Governemnt for a short time.

The only problem I can see is with the long term overtayers who have not paid their fee/levy for the year. These are in the minority and will always be a problem, but the majority of expats doing the right thing will have some medical coverage that will at least save them from financial ruin.

Edited August 9, 2013 by NamKangMan