Has Thai Culinary Evolution Reached it's Highest Peak or Lowest Depth?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Great lot of talk about Thai noodles, unfortunately they are Chinese.

Noodles were only eaten by Thais after 1940 when a general introduced them in order to save rice for the export market.

If noodles are a traditional Thai dish, then curries are a traditional British dish.

(both introduced to their respective countries at about the same time)

Edited August 18, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[junglechef]

Junglechef,

That big blob of "cheese" looks totally disgusting!! Are you sure you have shared your real opinion about that??

A bit off subject, but I recently loaded up on imported soft goat cheese, which was on sale at Rimping. I really don't like it myself, but try to make myself like it, through repeated exposure. However, to my shock, my nearly 8 year old daughter, totally LOVES it! She told me that goat cheese and candy (or ice cream) can't remember, are her two favorite foods in the world!!

Isn't that weird?

Yes it doesn't look appetizing in the picture or in person (or would that in food??). The food's presentation is just one of the factors in the dining experience and perhaps I just had to try it so I could run home and complain of TV about it ( ) but it was what it was, not bad at all, and I can see similar things becoming popular here with the locals who might just be getting a bit bored with the regular tom yum/moo kapo/chicken on rice meals that are offered everywhere and many seem to eat all the time but are not really interested in getting away from their safe Thai go-to meals but want to get on the trendy food train and take pics for their facebook page.

I really like the local Camembert that goes by the name something like Hasco?? Seen it at Rimping but Friday it was for sale at Le Bistro which is a real restaurant who understands French Bistrot cuisine.

My two Thai boys try almost everything (yes at my insistence just a taste) and like all sorts of foods they have never experienced or heard of before. Even my 1 yr old eats all the different foods we eat. Isn't it great, get your little one cooking too, mine love it and I glow when I see the satisfaction they get from eating food they prepared themselves!

[junglechef]

The funniest thing was having sushi in Japan and they made it american style. Had mayo on it and other nasty stuff. I traveled all the way expecting something genuine and what I got was worse than local shops in the US with high school kids preparing the food. I had to spend a fortune to get good Sushi in Japan.''

As for Som-Tam not being authentic because papayas are from South America, sorry but 300 + years of making it still is traditional. Otherwise you could say that no curry in Thailand is traditional because the majority of spices used are not indigenous. The only thing that gave heat to dishes was green peppercorn.

PadThai is considered by foreigners as traditional Thai food yet it is barely 60 years old.

When a food leaves its country of origin and gets reinvented to suit the local tastes and then is brought back to the home country, a full circle evolution, then there is change. Italian food is a perfect example. Every country has their own versions of Italian food and many Italian restaurants in Italy are using those "corrupted recipes" Imagine going to Naples and eating at a Pizza Hut. American style pizzas have traveled a lot further and are more popular than the original Italian styles.

The thing that is wonderful about food is that there is no limit to what can be done. There are rules to keep flavors balanced but Thai stocks and sauces infused with lemon grass, or kaffir lime leaves, or how thais add grapao basil to italian recipes instead of sweet basil.

GO FOR IT.

Food is for Fun.

I made Laab sausage and it was awesome. Just a typical larger grain pork sausage filled with fried jasmine rice powder, herbs, spices, lime juice, lime leaves, chunks of fatty skin.

I make a fried rice with Naam (sour pork) and chinese sausage (the dark hard sweet one). So you have the sour and the sweet balance each other out.

HO mok Pla is a traditional fish and coconut custard. I make it with green curry paste instead of red. Add lime juice, and the fried jasmine rice powder. It tastes Thai but not traditional because uses the green instead of red. Why not more flexibility in traditional recipes. Every Thai that I serve it to, scratches their head and all say the same thing "I wonder why this hasn't been made before"

Only in Thailand can you get American fried rice (still don't understand what that is)

I kind of got the idea that you are saying it will never reach either extreme as it will be iin a state of change as other countries modify it.

Speaking of some thing different. I took a coat hanger put two marshmallows on it slid a hot dog on it through the center of it. Roasted it on a fire the marshmellow melted down on the hot dog. I put it on a bun with just plain yellow mustard and had a sweet and sour hot dog. It was delicious but I don't think it will catch on.

Maybe some one here will try it with a Thai twist to the system and ingredients.

Where is junglechef when you need him?

I'm here and think that eating the coat hanger would have been a better bet! Perhaps I could recommend a Thai twist of finding the hottest chili peppers in the land and smothering your hot dog with them and making it hot, sweet and sour emphasizing the hot to drown out all the other flavors!!

But I give you kudos for going for it and even more for admitting it here. . Keep up the creativity but please don't open a restaurant in town, we have enough places already that cater to people with similar food preferences.

[zeichen]

"Noodles were only eaten by Thais after 1940 when a general introduced them in order to save rice for the export market."

LOL. check your facts.

Noodles were introduced several hundred years ago. Khao soi has been around for a long time.

You are referring to a specific recipe "pad Thai" which was created by Piboon Songkran as the national dish. Which is not traditional in that sense but was created to incoroporate his concept of Thainess in cuisine.

Noodles in other forms have been in other recipes for centuries. Yes the techniques might be Chinese in origin but doesn't mean that trade only began in the 1940's.

And yes Chicken Tikka Marsala is a British dish just like Pizza is an American dish.

The roots were from immigrants of the respective countries but the dishes that we know them as today were adopted/adapted and even more popular than the original.

As I have stated before, when a food travels to new origins via migration or trade it is changed from the original cultural context and usually developed even further.

Vietnamese food was influenced by the French so the techniques used in cooking are French even though the ingredients are not. If more Vietnamese moved to France, then the flavors would have changed also and if it was good, then it would have been brought back to Vietnam and the modified versions would be eaten there two.

Mexican food, Italian food, certain Japanese dishes all traveled with their respective immigrants to the different lands in which they lived. Their foods were adapted with local ingredients, some techniques changed also. The food kept the essence of its origins but became something greater.

Avocados in sushi is popular in Japan now but it was in the US that it was introduced.

[zeichen]

funny about the coat hanger. Reminds me of a famous reporter I saw give a lecture. She mentioned how she would cut the wires from a lamp in a hotel peel back the plastic coating, stick a hotdog on the wire, plug it in for 1-2 seconds and instantly cook the hotdog.

I never have tried that and don't recommend it but I did think it was funny.

[Saan]

Zeichen's your comments are interesting and insightful especially the ones concerning Thai cooks. I find most are just doing it to get by similar to the teacher's who don't teach and the doctors who don't doc! With the many factors going into producing a good dish from purchasing and holding the ingredients to proper cooking techniques and an understanding of flavoring a "mai pen rai" attitude just doesn't cut it for a making consistently good dish.

But when one does have the necessary set of skills then by all means go for it and see what happens even if it's not always great. And by all means I couldn't encourage one more to do so at home with whatever talent and knowledge one has especially if your not planning on charging me for it!

My best meals here have been cooked by Grandma's including my GF's Mom who can take up to 4 hrs. to make a snack using old methods and lots of elbow grease. If I ever even suggested to her an easier way, using an electric device for instance, I think I'd be thrown out of my own house immediately!

I believe the story with American Fried Rice is that it was made for the U.S. soldiers here during the war by Thai cooks with mess hall products for the Amercian palate.

Wikipedia:

American fried rice (Thai: ข้าวผัดอเมริกัน, RTGS: 'khao phat amerikan') is a Thai fried rice dish with "American" side ingredients like fried chicken, ham, hot dogs, raisins, ketchup, and croutons. Other ingredients like pineapple are optional. Because it was invented during the Vietnam War era to serve to United States Marine Corps and United States Air Force personnel stationed in Thailand, it is generally not found in Thai restaurants outside Thailand. With the recent^[when?] proliferation of Thai restaurants, American fried rice is now appearing on Thai restaurant menus in the United States. The name comes from the fact that most of the ingredients are American or at least Western in origin.

It is interesting that Australian David Thompson is recognized internationally as the authority on Thai cuisine. He secured the first-ever Michelin star for Thai cuisine in 2002 at his London restaurant nahm. Two years ago, he moved back to Bangkok and opened nahm. In April 2012, nahm was among the 'World's 50 Best Restaurants' award by the UK industry publication, Restaurant magazine.

[Jingthing]

I never saw American fried rice on a Thai restaurant menu in the USA. If it was, I' d think it would be for Thai expats there as in Thailand it seems quite popular with Thais. I think it's a horrible dish.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Jingthing

[junglechef]

Zeichen's your comments are interesting and insightful especially the ones concerning Thai cooks. I find most are just doing it to get by similar to the teacher's who don't teach and the doctors who don't doc! With the many factors going into producing a good dish from purchasing and holding the ingredients to proper cooking techniques and an understanding of flavoring a "mai pen rai" attitude just doesn't cut it for a making consistently good dish.

But when one does have the necessary set of skills then by all means go for it and see what happens even if it's not always great. And by all means I couldn't encourage one more to do so at home with whatever talent and knowledge one has especially if your not planning on charging me for it!

My best meals here have been cooked by Grandma's including my GF's Mom who can take up to 4 hrs. to make a snack using old methods and lots of elbow grease. If I ever even suggested to her an easier way, using an electric device for instance, I think I'd be thrown out of my own house immediately!

I believe the story with American Fried Rice is that it was made for the U.S. soldiers here during the war by Thai cooks with mess hall products for the Amercian palate.

Wikipedia:

American fried rice (Thai: ข้าวผัดอเมริกัน, RTGS: 'khao phat amerikan') is a Thai fried rice dish with "American" side ingredients like fried chicken, ham, hot dogs, raisins, ketchup, and croutons. Other ingredients like pineapple are optional. Because it was invented during the Vietnam War era to serve to United States Marine Corps and United States Air Force personnel stationed in Thailand, it is generally not found in Thai restaurants outside Thailand. With the recent^[when?] proliferation of Thai restaurants, American fried rice is now appearing on Thai restaurant menus in the United States. The name comes from the fact that most of the ingredients are American or at least Western in origin.

It is interesting that Australian David Thompson is recognized internationally as the authority on Thai cuisine. He secured the first-ever Michelin star for Thai cuisine in 2002 at his London restaurant nahm. Two years ago, he moved back to Bangkok and opened nahm. In April 2012, nahm was among the 'World's 50 Best Restaurants' award by the UK industry publication, Restaurant magazine.

I've eaten at Nam in BKK as well at a private affair where Chef Thompson was the behind the stove. It was quite an uproar when a falang opened a Thai restaurant here and I found it excellent, a real fine dining experience. I'm pretty sure Nam in London has closed which, if rumor is true, after he lost the Michelin star. Don't want to get personal especially as I don't know all the details nor the Chef on a personal level but if my last meal prepared by him is any indication I hope things get back to normal quickly.

[Saan]

Zeichen's your comments are interesting and insightful especially the ones concerning Thai cooks. I find most are just doing it to get by similar to the teacher's who don't teach and the doctors who don't doc! With the many factors going into producing a good dish from purchasing and holding the ingredients to proper cooking techniques and an understanding of flavoring a "mai pen rai" attitude just doesn't cut it for a making consistently good dish.

But when one does have the necessary set of skills then by all means go for it and see what happens even if it's not always great. And by all means I couldn't encourage one more to do so at home with whatever talent and knowledge one has especially if your not planning on charging me for it!

My best meals here have been cooked by Grandma's including my GF's Mom who can take up to 4 hrs. to make a snack using old methods and lots of elbow grease. If I ever even suggested to her an easier way, using an electric device for instance, I think I'd be thrown out of my own house immediately!

I believe the story with American Fried Rice is that it was made for the U.S. soldiers here during the war by Thai cooks with mess hall products for the Amercian palate.

Wikipedia:

American fried rice (Thai: ข้าวผัดอเมริกัน, RTGS: 'khao phat amerikan') is a Thai fried rice dish with "American" side ingredients like fried chicken, ham, hot dogs, raisins, ketchup, and croutons. Other ingredients like pineapple are optional. Because it was invented during the Vietnam War era to serve to United States Marine Corps and United States Air Force personnel stationed in Thailand, it is generally not found in Thai restaurants outside Thailand. With the recent^[when?] proliferation of Thai restaurants, American fried rice is now appearing on Thai restaurant menus in the United States. The name comes from the fact that most of the ingredients are American or at least Western in origin.

It is interesting that Australian David Thompson is recognized internationally as the authority on Thai cuisine. He secured the first-ever Michelin star for Thai cuisine in 2002 at his London restaurant nahm. Two years ago, he moved back to Bangkok and opened nahm. In April 2012, nahm was among the 'World's 50 Best Restaurants' award by the UK industry publication, Restaurant magazine.

I've eaten at Nam in BKK as well at a private affair where Chef Thompson was the behind the stove. It was quite an uproar when a falang opened a Thai restaurant here and I found it excellent, a real fine dining experience. I'm pretty sure Nam in London has closed which, if rumor is true, after he lost the Michelin star. Don't want to get personal especially as I don't know all the details nor the Chef on a personal level but if my last meal prepared by him is any indication I hope things get back to normal quickly.

True, after 9 years he lost his Star but he was planning to close before he lost it.

By the way that is not a typo the restaurant is spelt nahm in lower case.

[hellodolly]

The funniest thing was having sushi in Japan and they made it american style. Had mayo on it and other nasty stuff. I traveled all the way expecting something genuine and what I got was worse than local shops in the US with high school kids preparing the food. I had to spend a fortune to get good Sushi in Japan.''

As for Som-Tam not being authentic because papayas are from South America, sorry but 300 + years of making it still is traditional. Otherwise you could say that no curry in Thailand is traditional because the majority of spices used are not indigenous. The only thing that gave heat to dishes was green peppercorn.

PadThai is considered by foreigners as traditional Thai food yet it is barely 60 years old.

When a food leaves its country of origin and gets reinvented to suit the local tastes and then is brought back to the home country, a full circle evolution, then there is change. Italian food is a perfect example. Every country has their own versions of Italian food and many Italian restaurants in Italy are using those "corrupted recipes" Imagine going to Naples and eating at a Pizza Hut. American style pizzas have traveled a lot further and are more popular than the original Italian styles.

The thing that is wonderful about food is that there is no limit to what can be done. There are rules to keep flavors balanced but Thai stocks and sauces infused with lemon grass, or kaffir lime leaves, or how thais add grapao basil to italian recipes instead of sweet basil.

GO FOR IT.

Food is for Fun.

I made Laab sausage and it was awesome. Just a typical larger grain pork sausage filled with fried jasmine rice powder, herbs, spices, lime juice, lime leaves, chunks of fatty skin.

I make a fried rice with Naam (sour pork) and chinese sausage (the dark hard sweet one). So you have the sour and the sweet balance each other out.

HO mok Pla is a traditional fish and coconut custard. I make it with green curry paste instead of red. Add lime juice, and the fried jasmine rice powder. It tastes Thai but not traditional because uses the green instead of red. Why not more flexibility in traditional recipes. Every Thai that I serve it to, scratches their head and all say the same thing "I wonder why this hasn't been made before"

Only in Thailand can you get American fried rice (still don't understand what that is)

I kind of got the idea that you are saying it will never reach either extreme as it will be iin a state of change as other countries modify it.

Speaking of some thing different. I took a coat hanger put two marshmallows on it slid a hot dog on it through the center of it. Roasted it on a fire the marshmellow melted down on the hot dog. I put it on a bun with just plain yellow mustard and had a sweet and sour hot dog. It was delicious but I don't think it will catch on.

Maybe some one here will try it with a Thai twist to the system and ingredients.

Where is junglechef when you need him?

I'm here and think that eating the coat hanger would have been a better bet! Perhaps I could recommend a Thai twist of finding the hottest chili peppers in the land and smothering your hot dog with them and making it hot, sweet and sour emphasizing the hot to drown out all the other flavors!!

But I give you kudos for going for it and even more for admitting it here. . Keep up the creativity but please don't open a restaurant in town, we have enough places already that cater to people with similar food preferences.

Crap I thought I was the only one.

How about I use the hot dogs Dukes use's they are the best I have ever tasted any where in the world.

Your suggestion would be to hot for me but not hot enough for my boy.

[junglechef]

Zeichen's your comments are interesting and insightful especially the ones concerning Thai cooks. I find most are just doing it to get by similar to the teacher's who don't teach and the doctors who don't doc! With the many factors going into producing a good dish from purchasing and holding the ingredients to proper cooking techniques and an understanding of flavoring a "mai pen rai" attitude just doesn't cut it for a making consistently good dish.

But when one does have the necessary set of skills then by all means go for it and see what happens even if it's not always great. And by all means I couldn't encourage one more to do so at home with whatever talent and knowledge one has especially if your not planning on charging me for it!

My best meals here have been cooked by Grandma's including my GF's Mom who can take up to 4 hrs. to make a snack using old methods and lots of elbow grease. If I ever even suggested to her an easier way, using an electric device for instance, I think I'd be thrown out of my own house immediately!

I believe the story with American Fried Rice is that it was made for the U.S. soldiers here during the war by Thai cooks with mess hall products for the Amercian palate.

Wikipedia:

American fried rice (Thai: ข้าวผัดอเมริกัน, RTGS: 'khao phat amerikan') is a Thai fried rice dish with "American" side ingredients like fried chicken, ham, hot dogs, raisins, ketchup, and croutons. Other ingredients like pineapple are optional. Because it was invented during the Vietnam War era to serve to United States Marine Corps and United States Air Force personnel stationed in Thailand, it is generally not found in Thai restaurants outside Thailand. With the recent^[when?] proliferation of Thai restaurants, American fried rice is now appearing on Thai restaurant menus in the United States. The name comes from the fact that most of the ingredients are American or at least Western in origin.

It is interesting that Australian David Thompson is recognized internationally as the authority on Thai cuisine. He secured the first-ever Michelin star for Thai cuisine in 2002 at his London restaurant nahm. Two years ago, he moved back to Bangkok and opened nahm. In April 2012, nahm was among the 'World's 50 Best Restaurants' award by the UK industry publication, Restaurant magazine.

I've eaten at Nam in BKK as well at a private affair where Chef Thompson was the behind the stove. It was quite an uproar when a falang opened a Thai restaurant here and I found it excellent, a real fine dining experience. I'm pretty sure Nam in London has closed which, if rumor is true, after he lost the Michelin star. Don't want to get personal especially as I don't know all the details nor the Chef on a personal level but if my last meal prepared by him is any indication I hope things get back to normal quickly.

True, after 9 years he lost his Star but he was planning to close before he lost it.

By the way that is not a typo the restaurant is spelt nahm in lower case.

From being in the biz that sounds a lot like face saving PR but as I'm not that connected to the scene anymore to know if my thoughts are in fact the truth or not. Do you know the backstory? I have heard some things concerning financial matters which could have precluded both, but which came first the chicken or the egg I do not know, if either. There's always has been lots of intrigue in the restaurant business which was another facet that made it interesting, exciting and entertaining. Some days having my own place was like reality TV before reality TV was.

Thanks for the correction on the correct spelling, those damn transliterations get me every time!

[hellodolly]

It is interesting that Australian David Thompson is recognized internationally as the authority on Thai cuisine. He secured the first-ever Michelin star for Thai cuisine in 2002 at his London restaurant nahm. Two years ago, he moved back to Bangkok and opened nahm. In April 2012, nahm was among the 'World's 50 Best Restaurants' award by the UK industry publication, Restaurant magazine.

I've eaten at Nam in BKK as well at a private affair where Chef Thompson was the behind the stove. It was quite an uproar when a falang opened a Thai restaurant here and I found it excellent, a real fine dining experience. I'm pretty sure Nam in London has closed which, if rumor is true, after he lost the Michelin star. Don't want to get personal especially as I don't know all the details nor the Chef on a personal level but if my last meal prepared by him is any indication I hope things get back to normal quickly.

True, after 9 years he lost his Star but he was planning to close before he lost it.

By the way that is not a typo the restaurant is spelt nahm in lower case.

From being in the biz that sounds a lot like face saving PR but as I'm not that connected to the scene anymore to know if my thoughts are in fact the truth or not. Do you know the backstory? I have heard some things concerning financial matters which could have precluded both, but which came first the chicken or the egg I do not know, if either. There's always has been lots of intrigue in the restaurant business which was another facet that made it interesting, exciting and entertaining. Some days having my own place was like reality TV before reality TV was.

Thanks for the correction on the correct spelling, those dam_n transliterations get me every time!

Speaking of money in the restaurant business I heard a rumor that a lot of mafia money bank rolled some of the successful ones as it takes time to build up a clientele. When I heard that I got to thinking about it and it seemed to me most of the movies I had seen with the mafia in them had them always in a restaurant.

Just a rumor.

[DaamNaam]

Great lot of talk about Thai noodles, unfortunately they are Chinese.

Noodles were only eaten by Thais after 1940 when a general introduced them in order to save rice for the export market.

If noodles are a traditional Thai dish, then curries are a traditional British dish.

(both introduced to their respective countries at about the same time)

In 2002, archaeologists found an earthenware bowl containing the world's oldest known noodles, measured to roughly 4000 years BP through radiocarbon dating, at the Lajia archaeological site along the Yellow River in China.

1940? Yeah right...What are you smoking? I want some.

[junglechef]

A good general rule of thumb is one needs one year's operating costs after the opening outlay to make it past the time it takes to grow one's clientele base and build good will. As a cash business there is opportunity to launder money and legitimize income from ill-gotten means. Also a restaurant is a good place for some people to conduct their business, legal or otherwise, and fulfill either egos. My personal recommendation would be not to have nay partners if possible of any kind and have the kind of friends who insist on paying for everything!

[ARISTIDE]

Japanese love mayo and I don't think they were thinking of American style. They just love mayo! They use mayo in roe pasta, in pizza, in takoyaki, in japanese style pizza etc..

The funniest thing was having sushi in Japan and they made it american style. Had mayo on it and other nasty stuff. I traveled all the way expecting something genuine and what I got was worse than local shops in the US with high school kids preparing the food. I had to spend a fortune to get good Sushi in Japan.''

Only in Thailand can you get American fried rice (still don't understand what that is)

American fried rice is rice flavored with ketchup, fried chicken, cocktail sausages, raisins and fried egg.

[ARISTIDE]

I was at Makro this morning asking around for 'cheese flavored' Mama and I was greatly disappointed they never heard of it! Check with customer service and they never have it in stock! May be you're talking about Korean cheese noodle? I've been looking everywhere for Mama spicy cheese

I happened to notice a lady at Makro last night buying about 12 industrial size boxes of the Mama (or whatever brand it is) apparently new 'cheese flavored' instant noodles along with 2 other trolleys full of instant noodles. So I guess it's already a big hit here.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The funniest thing was having sushi in Japan and they made it american style. Had mayo on it and other nasty stuff. I traveled all the way expecting something genuine and what I got was worse than local shops in the US with high school kids preparing the food. I had to spend a fortune to get good Sushi in Japan.''

Only in Thailand can you get American fried rice (still don't understand what that is)

American fried rice is rice flavored with ketchup, fried chicken, cocktail sausages, raisins and fried egg.

Yes, I kind of like it.. Ultimate comfort food.

When I have it it's usually for breakfast, usually when I'm in Pattaya and still a little hung over. Runny egg on top.

" All the worst of an American Breakfast, re-imagined in rice. "

It really needs bacon though, but it mostly comes with lower quality ham. (And hot-dog and fried chicken, of course). Then fry the rice in the bacon drippings. Add the ketchup near the end, and consider fine-tuning the ketchup with some mustard/vinegar/worcestershire/HP Sauce/whatever.

[Ulysses G.]

American fried rice is rice flavored with ketchup, fried chicken, cocktail sausages, raisins and fried egg.

I might be able to handle it without the raisns (or pineapple), but that combination turns my stomach. I can't stand coleslaw with raisins either - although raisins in desserts are fine.

[amykat]

I never saw American fried rice on a Thai restaurant menu in the USA. If it was, I' d think it would be for Thai expats there as in Thailand it seems quite popular with Thais. I think it's a horrible dish.

I agree Jingthing. Do you think we can sue someone for defamation against the US? Or complain to the Thai embassy in the US?

[ARISTIDE]

According to this 'American fried rice' history, I think you can add bacon or any leftover breakfast items!

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ข้าวผัดอเมริกัน

It really needs bacon though, but it mostly comes with lower quality ham. (And hot-dog and fried chicken, of course). Then fry the rice in the bacon drippings. Add the ketchup near the end, and consider fine-tuning the ketchup with some mustard/vinegar/worcestershire/HP Sauce/whatever.

[Mapguy]

I wonder if this is a genuine TV CM food thread because UG's contributions are so limited !!

Anyway, chacun à son goût.

So, my contribution is to ask about this myth --- or, at least, overgeneralized notion --- of "Thai" food. If you have been around for a while, you know that there are different styles and tastes of cooking in Thailand (a place name much, much, much more modern than the style of cooking in these climes). If one thing is true, it is probably is that a lot of "Thai" food is very spicy to the tastes of those not used to it. And that spurs a common question from Thais asking farang if their food is too "hot." An expectation. There is also an explanation for this other than sniffy indulgence.

One of the principal reasons that Europeans valued the trade with the "East," the Indies"and beyond, was the spices. Reason for it it? In pre-refrigeration days, meat too quickly got quite rank to smell and taste. Salt was great, but peppery spices, in particular, were particularly valued because they masked the more nauseous flavors of not-so-fresh meat. (There was also value, of course, because of rarity, a status motivation.)

But, back to the real point, people lacked refrigeration (Not that anyone would be thrilled with frozen seal meat) and tropical and sub-tropical peoples obviously had a greater problem. So, hide the problem with spices just like bad French cooks hide with sauces! So, people did all sorts of things with food, and it often included eating really rank food (as in some Issan--- not to leave out kimchi --- favorites). A lot of cooking had to include pepper. In this area, "pik Thai" (or however you spell it) for the same reasons the Europeans used it. Which gets us to the introduction of really hot spices, like chillies, which came to SE Asia from the South and Central Americas via the Spanish and Portuguese. Very effective answer to the absence of refrigeration!

I suggest that today we are still a few generations away in Thailand from really tasting the food, rather than the strong species which flavor it, simply because something so culturally "sticky" as the sense of taste takes a long, long time to change even though technology and global mobility today provide ready options.

[Mapguy]

According to this 'American fried rice' history, I think you can add bacon or any leftover breakfast items!

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ข้าวผัดอเมริกัน

It really needs bacon though, but it mostly comes with lower quality ham. (And hot-dog and fried chicken, of course). Then fry the rice in the bacon drippings. Add the ketchup near the end, and consider fine-tuning the ketchup with some mustard/vinegar/worcestershire/HP Sauce/whatever.

I am seriously worried about our friends' vulnerability to various cardiovascular and other illnesses. Granted that we are omnivores, the received medicinal wisdom these days is still strongly counter indicative of such indulgence! Muesli for breakfast doesn't make you a dull boy!

Edited August 19, 2013 by Mapguy

[hellodolly]

According to this 'American fried rice' history, I think you can add bacon or any leftover breakfast items!

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ข้าวผัดอเมริกัน

It really needs bacon though, but it mostly comes with lower quality ham. (And hot-dog and fried chicken, of course). Then fry the rice in the bacon drippings. Add the ketchup near the end, and consider fine-tuning the ketchup with some mustard/vinegar/worcestershire/HP Sauce/whatever.

I am seriously worried about our friends' vulnerability to various cardiovascular and other illnesses. Granted that we are omnivores, the received medicinal wisdom these days is still strongly counter indicative of such indulgence! Muesli for breakfast doesn't make you a dull boy!

With or with out spices

It most assuredly will not make you a dull boy or be a good breakfast.

[Mapguy]

One does not have to be a total culinary philistine. Add some raisins! Or prunes, in your case ?!

I should add that muesli will make you not only regular but also will stimulate other urges! I'll wager you might not have known that! Or maybe you have.

Hope this does not clear the Rimping and Tops aisles of product, especially in Chiang Mai considering the randy elderly who post on this site!

So, go get some!

PS. Now, I realize that my last remark is somewhat ambiguous, but --- hey! --- what works for you!

Edited August 19, 2013 by Mapguy

[junglechef]

I wonder if this is a genuine TV CM food thread because UG's contributions are so limited !! alt=biggrin.png>

Anyway, chacun à son goût.

So, my contribution is to ask about this myth --- or, at least, overgeneralized notion --- of "Thai" food. If you have been around for a while, you know that there are different styles and tastes of cooking in Thailand (a place name much, much, much more modern than the style of cooking in these climes). If one thing is true, it is probably is that a lot of "Thai" food is very spicy to the tastes of those not used to it. And that spurs a common question from Thais asking farang if their food is too "hot." An expectation. There is also an explanation for this other than sniffy indulgence.

One of the principal reasons that Europeans valued the trade with the "East," the Indies"and beyond, was the spices. Reason for it it? In pre-refrigeration days, meat too quickly got quite rank to smell and taste. Salt was great, but peppery spices, in particular, were particularly valued because they masked the more nauseous flavors of not-so-fresh meat. (There was also value, of course, because of rarity, a status motivation.)

But, back to the real point, people lacked refrigeration (Not that anyone would be thrilled with frozen seal meat) and tropical and sub-tropical peoples obviously had a greater problem. So, hide the problem with spices just like bad French cooks hide with sauces! So, people did all sorts of things with food, and it often included eating really rank food (as in some Issan--- not to leave out kimchi --- favorites). A lot of cooking had to include pepper. In this area, "pik Thai" (or however you spell it) for the same reasons the Europeans used it. Which gets us to the introduction of really hot spices, like chillies, which came to SE Asia from the South and Central Americas via the Spanish and Portuguese. Very effective answer to the absence of refrigeration!

I suggest that today we are still a few generations away in Thailand from really tasting the food, rather than the strong species which flavor it, simply because something so culturally "sticky" as the sense of taste takes a long, long time to change even though technology and global mobility today provide ready options.

The history of the food is an important factor in understanding what one is making to really prepare any dish properly. Of course I'm not talking about trying something at home but for a true Chef or Foodie it does add authenticity and makes it even that more interesting. Thanks for putting things in perspective.

I think some really do taste the food here. Yes with the compromised palates from fast food and the like the younger generation's taste buds need to be trained to appreciate fresh and traditional foods. Hopefully it's just a blip in time just like I keep trying to convince myself global warming is!!

But I've seen Thais of all ages really taste taste taste (something a Chef will drill into any cooks head constantly) when preparing a meal. I also believe that they are use to the strong flavors of very hot chilis, fermented fish and bitter vegetables etc. so they can "taste through" these types of ingredients to balance the flavors of a dish to make food they really enjoy. Perhaps in a way like acquiring a taste for these pungent, smelly and IMHO delightful foodstuffs!

Edited August 20, 2013 by junglechef

[Saan]

According to this 'American fried rice' history, I think you can add bacon or any leftover breakfast items!

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ข้าวผัดอเมริกัน

It really needs bacon though, but it mostly comes with lower quality ham. (And hot-dog and fried chicken, of course). Then fry the rice in the bacon drippings. Add the ketchup near the end, and consider fine-tuning the ketchup with some mustard/vinegar/worcestershire/HP Sauce/whatever.

I am seriously worried about our friends' vulnerability to various cardiovascular and other illnesses. Granted that we are omnivores, the received medicinal wisdom these days is still strongly counter indicative of such indulgence! Muesli for breakfast doesn't make you a dull boy!

Supposed carnivores in the animal world also eat their muesli. It is provided for them by the ruminants, deer etc, when they gorge on the ruminants stomachs full of green matter in various stages of digestion. So in effect a lion will have a roast with three veg every time he kills a springbok.

So it seems that our Winnie is the only carnivore buffalo.