Former BBC Radio 1 DJ Dave Lee Travis charged with sexual assault

[tubby johnson]

"in an appropriate place" ......... lambs to the slaughter.

11 counts of indecent assault and one of sexual assault over a 30-year period from 1977. The allegations relate to eight women aged between 18 and 29 at the time and a girl of 15.

...... And Jimmy Saville was innocent too.

For all we know, he has been accused of pinching 8 ladies bums.

It's indecent assault now, but in the 70s and 80s it wasn't.

Get a grip man!

"For all we know" ... But you don't know.

It's no use harking back to those innocent good times 40 years ago when casual racism, machismo, homophobia and misogyny were part of daily life. If it's wrong now what DLT did, it was wrong then.

[Scott]

Posts and replies removed.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

"in an appropriate place" ......... lambs to the slaughter.

11 counts of indecent assault and one of sexual assault over a 30-year period from 1977. The allegations relate to eight women aged between 18 and 29 at the time and a girl of 15.

...... And Jimmy Saville was innocent too.

For all we know, he has been accused of pinching 8 ladies bums.

It's indecent assault now, but in the 70s and 80s it wasn't.

Get a grip man!

"For all we know" ... But you don't know.

It's no use harking back to those innocent good times 40 years ago when casual racism, machismo, homophobia and misogyny were part of daily life. If it's wrong now what DLT did, it was wrong then.

What a silly post, laws change all the time.

Some things are wrong now, that weren't wrong then.

Some things were wrong then, that aren't wrong now.

[chrisinth]

"in an appropriate place" ......... lambs to the slaughter.

11 counts of indecent assault and one of sexual assault over a 30-year period from 1977. The allegations relate to eight women aged between 18 and 29 at the time and a girl of 15.

...... And Jimmy Saville was innocent too. alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

For all we know, he has been accused of pinching 8 ladies bums.

It's indecent assault now, but in the 70s and 80s it wasn't.

Get a grip man!

"For all we know" ... But you don't know.

It's no use harking back to those innocent good times 40 years ago when casual racism, machismo, homophobia and misogyny were part of daily life. If it's wrong now what DLT did, it was wrong then.

What a silly post, laws change all the time.

Some things are wrong now, that weren't wrong then.

Some things were wrong then, that aren't wrong now.

It is not so much as the laws changing but our societies focus on points of the law.

Today, if you are a grandfather, try explaining the (innocent) photographs you have taken of your 7 year old grand daughter under normal circumstances. Try explaining why your 7 year old daughter was photographed sitting on your knee if questioned about it.

Whereas the above is a hypothetical situation, in the 70's & 80's this sort of interaction would have been encouraged, would have been regarded as normal. You would never have expected the privacy of your family being brought into question.

Of course there is a reason for the change in social attitude, more kiddy fiddlers being brought into focus, which is a good thing. But IMHO with our societies casting suspicion on everything and everyone, this will not diminish the numbers of sexual offenders that are out there (they will continue regardless) but will help splinter the very society we are trying to protect.

As a disclaimer to the above, when it comes to sexual offenders, I would lean towards the 'hang-em-high' side of the fence, but only if it was proven that the offence (s) took place. As regards the BBC, in my mind there is no question that a witch hunt is in progress, which is a good thing, again, if it is proven, but spare some thoughts for the accused, particularly on what was accepted then to what is accepted now. And yes, viewpoints have changed!

[7by7]

For the benefit of a certain member who doesn't know the difference:

Rape is the intentional penetration of the vagina, mouth or anus with the penis without the persons consent.

Sexual assault by penetration is the intentional penetration of the vagina, mouth or anus with an object without the persons consent.

Sexual assault/Indecent assault is the intentional touching in a sexual manner, but no penetration, through clothing or inside clothing, without the persons consent.

Source.

These are the modern legal definitions, but as I understand it Travis will have been charged under the law extant at the time of the alleged offences.

[Credo]

For those wondering why it took so long for the victims to speak up, the answer is probably money.

[tubby johnson]

For the benefit of a certain member who doesn't know the difference:

Rape is the intentional penetration of the vagina, mouth or anus with the penis without the persons consent.

Sexual assault by penetration is the intentional penetration of the vagina, mouth or anus with an object without the persons consent.

Sexual assault/Indecent assault is the intentional touching in a sexual manner, but no penetration, through clothing or inside clothing, without the persons consent.

Source.

These are the modern legal definitions, but as I understand it Travis will have been charged under the law extant at the time of the alleged offences.

So sexual assault is nothing to whine about then, The victims and the women on this thread (are there any?) will be grateful for your erudite explanation.

[7by7]

No one is saying that sexual assault is nothing to whine about!

But you are saying that it is the same as rape; which it isn't.

Whilst sexual assault is undoubtedly extremely unpleasant for the victim, saying that it is the same as rape is not only ignorant and wrong; but also an insult to all victims of rape.

[Scott]

An inflammatory troll post has been deleted as well as replies. Please don't feed the troll.

[cardholder]

It does look like this thread has nowhere to go.

Dave Lee Travis has been charged and is innocent until proved otherwise.

It is speculation to assume that these incidents centered around occasions where the radio personality was in the company of fans, groupies, fringe dwellers etc. Frankly, I doubt that DLT went round peoples houses, or abused any position of trust, in getting involved in whatever activities warranted the police charge.

It would seem that a troll is preventing any discussion about whether 'groping', and the like, was a part of growing up in the 1960's and 1970's and certainly part of the music scene where girls were attracted to music and media stars. We are similarly hampered by talking about whether it right to bring charges some 30/40 years later for, what many believe to be, 'trivial' matters and whether a hindsight judgement could ever be fair after that length of time, and based on current values.

Please do not think I would ever 'trivialise' a sexual crime. The debate that we appear to be unable to have is maybe about whether a crime was committed.

Perhaps after the case has been to court................................

[QualityTouristNumberOne]

gonna DEFINITELY have to change the name to the "BBCP" now...or have a Merger with the Catholic Church.

[jackr]

No one is saying that sexual assault is nothing to whine about!

But you are saying that it is the same as rape; which it isn't.

Whilst sexual assault is undoubtedly extremely unpleasant for the victim, saying that it is the same as rape is not only ignorant and wrong; but also an insult to all victims of rape.

Don't feed it, just hit ignore and it'll get bored eventually.

If DLT has been a naughty boy, then he deserves what's coming. On the other hand, many chaps have had their lives ruined through conniving women, or something that was consensual... the kind of scenario that would shut a certain annoying ('new') poster up if they were targetted.

[Scott]

An off-topic speculative post not related directly to the thread has been removed.

[Credo]

Why do so many people plant their wild oats when they are young and then pray for a crop failure.

[Wavefloater]

Certainly, give him his day in court, but haven't all the BBC presenters, etc. charged with these types of crimes vehemently protested their innocence before finally confessing?

Hate to say it, but it seems that this type of behavior became entrenched in the BBC as part of its culture. How does something like that happen?

all the BBC presenters, etc. charged with these types of crimes vehemently protested their innocence before finally confessing?

This is incorrect Wavefloater------ Please just Google it in, and you will find page after page of people accused of 30--40 year old + crimes found not guilty. A lot from the BBC. So far I can only think of 1 conviction--which was not a conviction in the sense that the person pleaded guilty.

Just Last week the most high profile case in the UK Eddie Shah Also returned a not guilty verdict'

Mr Shah also commented on Scotland Yard's Operation Yewtree investigation, set up in the wake of allegations of sexual abuse

by BBC DJ Jimmy Savile and other television stars from the 1970s and 1980s.

He added that he had been helping a "very well-known person" charged under Operation Yewtree deal with the "horrible, horrible feeling" of "emptiness about everything",

which Mr Shah said he had experienced when he was wrongly accused of rape.

Asked if he thought the investigation was in danger of becoming a witch-hunt, he said: "I think it's developing into that. It's easy policing and it's easy prosecutions...

"In a civilised society there's got to be more checks and balances before these sort of accusations are used."

He also talked again about the suicidal thoughts he had experienced after his arrest.

"Every night I worked out different ways of committing suicide to help me go to sleep, actually," he said

In other Countries these accusations are not even allowed to come to court--- When given reasons why they would not prostitute this sort of crime the USA (where the age of consent is 18 & who no one could accuse of being lenient on most sex crimes)-- they state .---

Though child molestation is a monstrous crime, there are good reasons for a statute of limitations in sexual assault cases

—mainly that the longer you take to prosecute any crime, the more stale the evidence gets and the less reliable it is.

That when the charge is based on the word of the victim, timing can be especially important. “For example, if a person comes

forward with a claim of sexual assault when he was a 7-year-old, 20 years after the fact, arguably the charge is suspect from the beginning..

“The person’s memory has been subject to change and influence, essential witnesses might have forgotten the events or even be dead,

it may be impossible to get physical evidence in the case, and the like.” Furthermore, a long-delayed charge lessens the retributive and deterrent value of a conviction.

Eddie Shah case was a lot more serious charge--- most of the charges are about what the British refer to as Groping

On one side there is a lot of money to be made from a civil case if (after) the person is convicted. After all, everything that has gone wrong in that persons life in the last 30 years was down to that incident---And as you can see by the letters---in these sort of cases, not to many people willing to give the accused person the benefit of the doubt.

I said "...haven't all the....?

It was a genuine question. I thought there were rules here about changing what people said to suit someone's post. I'm not from England and don't follow the news about public perverts there (or anywhere for that matter --- LOL).

If your that desperate to prove me wrong, at least be fair and don't change my post.

[brewsterbudgen]

Not guilty on all counts!

Edit: Two counts 'no verdict', so he may face another trial. I'd lay good odds that the charges will be dropped.

Edited February 13, 2014 by brewsterbudgen

[Basil B]

Not guilty on all counts!

Edit: Two counts 'no verdict', so he may face another trial. I'd lay good odds that the charges will be dropped.

As Bill Roache (Corries Ken Barlow) said last week "There are no winners".

For DLT he still has to wait now for the decision whether there will be a retrial on the two counts the jury failed to agree on.

To me what ever anybody say about DLT he was a very good radio and TV entertainer, the sad thing is if he was innocent this episode in his life has cost him dear, he has had to sell his house and no doubt it has cost him in other ways too.

[David joohs]

Its been nice to go through your post.
It has given me much knowledge & so many valuable information.

I'm feeling very nice to be here. so enjoyable...

[Basil B]

News Update.

Well for the Hairy Monster it is not all over, he is to face a retrial.

Former Radio 1 DJ Dave Lee Travis will face a retrial on charges of indecent and sexual assault, the Crown Prosecution Service has said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26322552

I am assuming this is in relation to the two charges that the jury failed to agree on.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Basil B

[3NUMBAS]

13 women must have made it up for some reason

the jury couldnt agree on 2 counts

and if J Saville had been taken to court whilst he was still alive it could be that he could have got off the charges

Edited February 24, 2014 by 3NUMBAS

[Neeranam]

Never liked or trusted DLT. I suspect he's guilty as charged.

[Neeranam]

Never liked or trusted DLT. I suspect he's guilty as charged.

I never like that Saville guy or that fat specky dude but did like Glitter.

[David joohs]

Thank you Sir' for this.. by the way, your layout is great.. ..

[baneko]

The BBC needs to clean up its act. Yet another filthy rapist. Hope he gets a taste of his own medicine in jail.

I did not read about his rape charge. Was it not sexual assault?

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[baneko]

Its a claim society now. Why did these ladies not make the complaint at the time?

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[tubby johnson]

Sexual assault / sexual harassment: a crime to any decent human being. This needs to be followed up on and prosecuted.

[3NUMBAS]

they all 13 went to the trouble to make it up for some reason ,he didnt jiggle any womans boobies from behind whilst on air

[speedtripler]

they all 13 went to the trouble to make it up for some reason ,he didnt jiggle any womans boobies from behind whilst on air

there may have been 20 women .not 13

i think i read that 7 cases were dropped but the remaining 13 are proceeding .......

if groping women were illegal theyde need to arrest nearly all the young thai boys during songkran

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[baneko]

Sexual assault / sexual harassment: a crime to any decent human being. This needs to be followed up on and prosecuted.

Is that if guilty?

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